Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[farside22]

The only thing we know is town has 8 roses.
A

[votato]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

Yes but any night could be picked. Do you think every player picked n1?

i know not every player picked n1. abr and dc picked n1 tho, unless theyre lying. if theyre lying theyre probably scum. what do you want us to do here farside?

[Something_Smart]

I'm not shooting DC no matter what. Scum have no choice but to NK me or DC tonight if they want a safe kill.

That's silly. It's better for scum to NK someone towny who might not die (but will then become a safe kill on future nights) than to NK someone scummy who will definitely die.

[SirCakez]

So why cakez are you fine with them each shooting each other?

I misunderstood mechanics
At the time I thought that having two contested slots off each other made sense

[farside22]

ABR will you self-vig if DC flips town?

I feel like I missed things.
How can we discern between town and scum gun shots farside?

Well thats easy isn't it.
Abr says he is shooting maria.
Don will shoot who he says.
Mafia could try to wifom if they want but then think of what happens day 2 if scum doesn't shot a claimed gun player.

there are roses involved too. There's one way to know for sure.

Yes but any night could be picked. Do you think every player picked n1?

i know not every player picked n1. abr and dc picked n1 tho, unless theyre lying. if theyre lying theyre probably scum. what do you want us to do here farside?

You wont know if they are lying till day 2.
Do you need me to go over every possible scenario? Because that is a lot of unlimited possibilities.
Who are you scum reading outside the 2 claimed players?

[farside22]

So why cakez are you fine with them each shooting each other?

I misunderstood mechanics
At the time I thought that having two contested slots off each other made sense

What did you think the mechanics were?

[Something_Smart]

At the time I thought that having two contested slots off each other made sense

It does...

[lilith2013]

Wow that was a wild read..

I don’t think DC is scum. His reactions, while not necessarily pro-town, seem genuinely frustrated and I think I would react similarly to being deathtunneled (and I think I have in the past.... like you don’t react to being deathtunneled with patience and grace unless you’re a saint, you’re obviously going to be upset about it and people who are using his reaction as a reason to scumread him are probably not thinking about how they would react to being deathtunneled or are scum).

Out of the people on the DC wagon (ABD, chkflip, vecna, farside, votato) I think there has to be 1+ scum.
- I don’t know what my ABR read is anymore because he’s being weirdly reasonable at some points but then really deathtunnely at other points.
- I think chkflip/vecna/votato votes seem opportunistic like they see ABR start to deathtunnel and go “ooh easy mislynch, I just have to let ABR do the work.”

• Votato in particular supposedly doesn’t have info on site meta and I think should have questioned the sudden change in ABR more, but at least was scumreading DC prior to ABR’s push.
  
• Chkflip was still scumreading votato until ABR started pushing and then was apparently totally fine with votato’s slot being on the same wagon as him and stopped pushing votato completely.
  
• Vecna sheeps the wagon even though he thought DC vs ABR was TvT. And there’s a weird transition back and forth in his earlier posts from being really friendly with ABR and then suspicious of him like he doesn’t want to come across as having too strong of a townread. So out of these 3 I think it might be vecna or chkflip.

- farside doesn’t want to listen to anything DC says and unfortunately I’m starting to agree with votato here that once she decides a slot is scummy she just tunnels it as if it’s confscum, which to some extent she said herself is her playstyle. The only person she didn’t do this to is ABR - why? Claims it’s because “meta” and she reread the thread but she didn’t do that for anyone else she was tunneling afaik.

I’m still good with a maria wagon. Need to reread cakes but I’ve been townreading him up to now. Would also be down for a vecna or chkflip wagon and could be convinced on a farside vote.

[Something_Smart]

Why does ABR/farside tunnel = Don!town to you?

It doesn't, though Don's reaction is somewhat more townleaning.

[farside22]

I meta search votato but games are ongoing.

[votato]

yeah I'm really not sure what to make of ABR/DC anymore. But i think perhaps whats left of them is best left for day 2. DC's reads have consistently been similar to mine, which is hard to scumread for. Parts of the defense were too AtE and seemed a bit forced possibly. Like i said yesterday, I'm not sure how to read ABR, but it seemed like a bad scumplay to push DC like that. The trade just isnt worth it. ABR seemed super sure. Looking back, if you have a read that strong, i feel like you (ABR) need to reveal who you think the main of DC is so we can judge for ourselves whether your case has merit.

My lynchpool for today is currently: {chkflip, cakez, farside, lilith}.

@lilith why is it scummy for chkflip to get on the DC wagon with me after SRing me, but not scummy for me to do the same after SRing chk? also, your lynch pool now stands at 7 people, right? do you scum read all 7? There's something in the way lilith changes her mind that feels off, but its just a gut feeling. Maybe a close look over her ISO would shed light. I might do that later if this wagon gets going.

that said, I noted opportunistic behavior from chkflip earlier: he was on both KM and my initial wagons, both of which were for super low-hanging fruit. I've made previous arguments for this wagon too.

farside always seems to be arguing against me. I'm sure I'm wrong about some things, maybe even most things. But it seems hard to believe that a fellow townie could be this diametrically opposed to me on reads. I've made previous arguments here.

cakez is largely a sheep. I dont like the defense of DC earlier. the 100% insistence on DC's innocence to me either says scum defending non-scum for townpoints post-flip, or scum defending scum. I don't see why a townie could be that confident. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the confidence was played up to increase the likelihood of being taken seriously? I'll leave that for more experienced players to decide. For me, it seems scummy tho.

pedit: I don't think theres anything to be gained from metaing me at this stage. even within this game i think my playstyle has altered drastically.

[Albert B. Rampage]

cakez is largely a sheep. I dont like the defense of DC earlier. the 100% insistence on DC's innocence to me either says scum defending non-scum for townpoints post-flip, or scum defending scum. I don't see why a townie could be that confident. Maybe I'm wrong?

You are right my friend!

[SirCakez]

So why cakez are you fine with them each shooting each other?

I misunderstood mechanics
At the time I thought that having two contested slots off each other made sense

What did you think the mechanics were?

it was moreso that I wasn't paying attention and didn't realize we could conf people

[SirCakez]

how am I a sheep? I'm the only one still on ABR at this point.

[votato]

how am I a sheep? I'm the only one still on ABR at this point.

to clarify i meant that my scumread on you was sheeping largely. I said early on that I'd likely do a fair bit of sheeping of reads, and that it would happen less as the game went on. I'm learning, bear with me.

[votato]

the fact that that's the one part of my post that you latched onto makes me scumread you even more.

[MariaR]

Does farside normally ignore her scumreads or anything her scumreads say? Like, is that normal for her? Please let me know so I can figure out if it's worth trying to speak to her

[MariaR]

@Chkflip

the main points for why I'm scumreading Vecna are in my iso. The way he reacted to pressure when voting you compared when he put down the vote in the first place. Combine this with illogical reasoning and ways to interpret things. I don't see why I should townread him nor has anyone really gave me reasons to do so. Same goes for my other scumreads.

[lilith2013]

@lilith why is it scummy for chkflip to get on the DC wagon with me after SRing me, but not scummy for me to do the same after SRing chk? also, your lynch pool now stands at 7 people, right? do you scum read all 7? There's something in the way lilith changes her mind that feels off, but its just a gut feeling. Maybe a close look over her ISO would shed light. I might do that later if this wagon gets going.

Somehow I missed that you were also scumreading chkflip. So why were you okay with joining a wagon with chkflip on it if you’re still scumreading him?

My lynchpool was only 4 people so where are you getting 7 from? Who are the other 3? I don’t think all of them are scum but I think at least 1 is.

What did I change my mind about that feels off to you? I was already showing signs of scumreading you, chkflip, and vecna prior to my post? I had already backed off ABR because he had some good points but I hadn’t really said anything about DC to change my mind about. Farside I’m uncertain of now, but I think that’s the only one?

[MariaR]

Lilith what's making you change your mind on Farside when she was your top townread?
Also I don't suppose I'm the one who can convince you no?~

[MariaR]

The fact if Cakez is scum I have to auto die to me is like, extremely grating and annoying like, what? How does what I do = partners with Cakez. Do hope someone comes around and answers though.

[lilith2013]

Lilith what's making you change your mind on Farside when she was your top townread?
Also I don't suppose I'm the one who can convince you no?~

The reason she was my top townread was because I felt like her posts were incredibly in tune with my own thoughts. With her joining the DC wagon and refusing to see DC as possibly town, I no longer feel that way - I mean the entire time I was reading her posts @ DC I was just shocked at how strong her confbias was. In retrospect she had been confbiasing previously on other slots, but at those times I was agreeing with her arguments and now I’m not. Is that a dumb way to read someone? Idk

[lilith2013]

You’re still in my lynchpool but idk you could try to convince me on farside

[Albert B. Rampage]

@lilith why is it scummy for chkflip to get on the DC wagon with me after SRing me, but not scummy for me to do the same after SRing chk? also, your lynch pool now stands at 7 people, right? do you scum read all 7? There's something in the way lilith changes her mind that feels off, but its just a gut feeling. Maybe a close look over her ISO would shed light. I might do that later if this wagon gets going.

Somehow I missed that you were also scumreading chkflip. So why were you okay with joining a wagon with chkflip on it if you’re still scumreading him?

My lynchpool was only 4 people so where are you getting 7 from? Who are the other 3? I don’t think all of them are scum but I think at least 1 is.

What did I change my mind about that feels off to you? I was already showing signs of scumreading you, chkflip, and vecna prior to my post? I had already backed off ABR because he had some good points but I hadn’t really said anything about DC to change my mind about. Farside I’m uncertain of now, but I think that’s the only one?

DC's scum pool is 7 players, he confused you with DC.

[MariaR]

Do you think her confbias is a playstyle thing or that she could be doing this on purpose? To me I think she's doing it on purpose cause while she outright ignores certain scumreads (hi) she talks to others wonder why that is?

Have you read my farside case? It's in my iso near the bottom. I'd love your response to it.