Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[enomis]

1) You've yet to explain why you want to keep your vote on me, while not even noticing my vote isn't even on you.
2) Let me pivot to ask you why you are coming after me when Ydrasse actually has a vote on you.
3)And the more you decide to peddle this useless non-argument the more I will be pressed to simply policy lynch you for not being cooperative. Me thinking you are scummier than clemency is a comparison read.
4) I suggest you stop trying to lie to advance your agenda.
5) If you think I'm scumreading you solely based on RVS posts then you are being ignorant, and need to iso yourself.
6) Now, how do I appear "informed" in your eyes? You are simply saying I am scum because I upset your ego. That is all. You have no real argument. Drop it.

@DkKoba:

1) I know that your vote is not on me. I have explained the reason why my vote is on you. Just that you wave those arguments away.
2) It doesn't matter who has a vote on me. Her read is gut and she didn't really have anything that pinged me.
3) Pot calling the Kettle Black
4) Where did I lie? Do point them out to me.
5) Did you even iso yourself. If you did, you would see that your argument against me is only the RVS post.
Are you asking me iso myself to find out why I think you think that I am scummy? No Thank You.
6) Where did this "informed" argument pop up?

[enomis]

Any particular reason for the midwaybear townlean? Just checked through your posts and I think its the first time you've mentioned that, and most people have them as null/mild scum right now it seems.

@Apogee:

It is because of this post 180 There is a chance scum bear would post this way make it look like a townslip. But I don't think so.

I want to ask you about this, because I feel like showing emotion is a tell on its own. Both you and DK getting frustrated at each other for lack of better communication feels town vs town, in my opinion. Not because I don't think scum doesn't dare to 1v1 early on, but because I can feel the frustration from both is genuine. Did you really get no vibes out of this interaction with DK, or are you saying this because you've played with him before and this is within his scum range?

@Maduisha:

For me, it depends on how the emotions is showed.
1) I could get his frustration of the questions which feel like repeating and what he thinks I am nitpicking. But this could come from town or scum.
2) But I am actually not nitpicking and those are legit arguments in my eyes. I wanted to know his thought process and he just waved them away.
3) Furthermore, there is actually a chance that those emotions could be faked and he is just using this to try act out this emotion outbreak to distract town and use this to wave away my argument.
(This is one tactic that scum sometimes use, just repeat saying that your arguments are rubbish.)

All could be possible. Thus, I find no reason to read those emotions. as town. Nor scum.
Put yourself in his shoes. If you are town koba and you think that people is nit picking, what would you do? If you are scum koba would you do the same thing?


-----------------------------------------------
There are a few things I noticed:
1) DkKoba and Joqiza seem to have super similar train of thought about people. Not sure if it is because they come from the same site and play together alot. Or is it because they are scum together and reason for same line of thought is because they discussed it in the daytalk.
2) For people on bear wagon, do you think the post i quoted is scum bear? I think we should push other slots instead.
3) I am perfectly ok with lynching clemency today. Sorry bro, but I wouldn't want you around in Lylo if you are town, I think it would be a disaster.

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.08

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

midwaybear

(3): Apogee, Maduisha, DkKoba

DkKoba

(2): midwaybear, enomis

joqiza

(1): votato

Maduisha

(1): Ydrasse

Not Voting

(2): joqiza, Clemency

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-15 10:45:00).

Mod notes:

• ...

[/area]

[Clemency]

@mod can i have a pt to write down notes
keeping track of things is a major pain on mobile for me

[enomis]

@mod can i have a pt to write down notes
keeping track of things is a major pain on mobile for me

This looks like scum trying to townslip for me.
1) Did you ever take notes before in your previous games?
2) Why not just use a notepad or any note taking software instead?

[enomis]

If you are town, would you be able to jot down the notes in this thread?
I think it would help alot to get into your thought process.

[Maduisha]

@Maduisha:

For me, it depends on how the emotions is showed.
1) I could get his frustration of the questions which feel like repeating and what he thinks I am nitpicking. But this could come from town or scum.
2) But I am actually not nitpicking and those are legit arguments in my eyes. I wanted to know his thought process and he just waved them away.
3) Furthermore, there is actually a chance that those emotions could be faked and he is just using this to try act out this emotion outbreak to distract town and use this to wave away my argument.
(This is one tactic that scum sometimes use, just repeat saying that your arguments are rubbish.)

All could be possible. Thus, I find no reason to read those emotions. as town. Nor scum.
Put yourself in his shoes. If you are town koba and you think that people is nit picking, what would you do? If you are scum koba would you do the same thing?


-----------------------------------------------
2) For people on bear wagon, do you think the post i quoted is scum bear? I think we should push other slots instead.

Basically, you are describing wifom and saying you can't trust emotions to be a towntell. I can't deny the potential of it being strategically used as a scum defense to be seen more as town, but I do feel it's a towntell in their case because DK has displayed behavior I read as town, so I would say this emotional read enhances the towny feeling rather than it defines it for me. I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Of course, if you didn't feel their previous behavior to be towny, then you can't read it the same way I do, so that answers the question I asked before. As I can see we're not in the same page about that slot, can you tell me what vibes are you getting from DK? (Brushing the emotion part aside, the rest of content).

As for the question you posed for Midway pushers: I feel you in the sense that that post and some others don't feel scummy to me, but I have a perception tone with his slot and I'm torn. I see both scummy actions and town behavior, so I'm confused about his motivations. Putting myself in his shoes, the post you linked makes sense both as town!Midway and scum!Midway that encounters DK again and wants them to feel their alignment is town. You get what I mean, right? I'm a fan of taking the most simple solution whenever I'm torn like this and that would be that he's actually town and I'm getting hung up on behavior I personally don't like that isn't necessarily scummy, but at the same time he keeps doing things that feel confusing and give me vibes of both alignments. I'm trying to interact with other slots too, but can you blame me for trying to get a better read of the slot that itches me the most?

[Clemency]

@mod can i have a pt to write down notes
keeping track of things is a major pain on mobile for me

This looks like scum trying to townslip for me.
1) Did you ever take notes before in your previous games?
2) Why not just use a notepad or any note taking software instead?

1)ive done it before in newbies though im having trouble finding my example rn
2)makes it more convenient when i can quote stuff
3)purple

[Clemency]

just gonna put some things from my reread here from time to time
@all of page 2
i cant assume dkkoba's level of experience but this feels like the play of a bold player finding themselves in a scum role and trying to latch onto percieved weakness rather than attempting a genuine push

combined with giving out random, shallow towncred here and there seems like a way to look like you dont know who town is, and are trying to assess people with gold stars and frowny faces
it feels like someone who has taken the position of town and feels concerned with looking the part

[Maduisha]

I know you're not there yet because you're only on page 2, but they started to blatantly ignore Enomis and handwave his posts, so I don't think DK is concerned about appearances, looking town, and all that stuff lol.

[Maduisha]

Like, if you want to look relatable you don't just suddenly start saying "I'm not gonna talk to this person anymore." It doesn't look like towncred farming.

Or maybe it's just me.

[Clemency]

@page 3
im gonna treat everything after page 2 as a totally intentional reaction test to dkkoba and pretend im not just incompetent
#50 literally contains an attempt to shade me and a denial that he's trying to shade me simultaneously
#52 can then be attributed to trying to maintain a look of "i'm town because i ask questions from everyone"
please stop me if i turn into confbias city because i have a bad habit of tunneling

scum typically try to start townblocks
starting one this early is high risk high reward

bless

@#59 either its a site by site meta thing or you're trying to make it seem like it is
scum trying to form townblocks can be a good way to secure your position in a game if you arent too blatant about it
#61 backpedal but also throwing in that you're "totally forming townreads already"
scum are pretty eager to townread considering its the main information they have as their advantage
@65 either you believe it was a scumslip or you dont, if you're so unsure about it why even let it weigh in?
i also dont really understand the confusion on the rest of the page about my backpedal
my attack _at the time_ on dkkoba was forced, out of a need to feel aggressive
i admitted it and then retracted it

[Clemency]

@80 more eager townreads from dkkoba
gets asked for elaboration
ignores it
brushes it off as "clemency towntold"
gets asked to elaborate
ignores it
where does this inexplicable confidence come from, i wonder? :thonk:
#91 is even more of a pain in the ass because its doing the same thing that people went off at me for, aka announcing plans to push without a target
then pushing the first person to call them out on it, trying to make it look intentional

[Clemency]

idk when this turned into a page by page case but im running with it

[Clemency]

at the same time as im writing all this it does feel more and more like im heavily confbiasing and tunneling up a storm
a friend told me that the worst thing town players do is take a post and argue that "x,y,z are scum indicative" and they never look at the post again to see if "a,b,c are town indicative"
im gonna do the rest of my reading a bit quieter, see if something really pings me and wait for more input before i decide to continue with this argument

[Clemency]

im really out of my comfort zone here considering ive never done a page-by-page or post-by-post in my 4 years of play haha

[DkKoba]

when I play with noobs in any social deducation game I tend to not double down on things they're announcing as scummy as it tends to get you D1 lynched/permamarked as scum

[DkKoba]

anyways the post u quoted from midway is likely scum motivated regardless based on their follow up activity. would that not be better evidence that I am town should midway flip scum?

[DkKoba]

clemency why are you announcing you want a PT when you can just DM a mod? what's your motivation?

also enomis: try to ask good questions and not like 30 of them at once and demand everyone answer them and maybe people will take them more serious. Frivolous questions come off as scum trying to catch town in a "gotcha" situation. make your questions actually meaningful.

[DkKoba]

1) You've yet to explain why you want to keep your vote on me, while not even noticing my vote isn't even on you.
2) Let me pivot to ask you why you are coming after me when Ydrasse actually has a vote on you.
3)And the more you decide to peddle this useless non-argument the more I will be pressed to simply policy lynch you for not being cooperative. Me thinking you are scummier than clemency is a comparison read.
4) I suggest you stop trying to lie to advance your agenda.
5) If you think I'm scumreading you solely based on RVS posts then you are being ignorant, and need to iso yourself.
6) Now, how do I appear "informed" in your eyes? You are simply saying I am scum because I upset your ego. That is all. You have no real argument. Drop it.

@DkKoba:

1) I know that your vote is not on me. I have explained the reason why my vote is on you. Just that you wave those arguments away.
2) It doesn't matter who has a vote on me. Her read is gut and she didn't really have anything that pinged me.
3) Pot calling the Kettle Black
4) Where did I lie? Do point them out to me.
5) Did you even iso yourself. If you did, you would see that your argument against me is only the RVS post.
Are you asking me iso myself to find out why I think you think that I am scummy? No Thank You.
6) Where did this "informed" argument pop up?

>argument is only the RVS pos
my sweet summer child you are continuing to lie.

>informed argument
that is this game. informed vs uninformed. you should be able to pinpoint where I seem "informed" if I am indeed mafia to you. Your push on clemency was BASED on that.


you need to ISO yourself and read why people might read you as scummy because self awareness is important in mafia. yelling "why am i scummy zomg" into the void doesn't help anyone.

[DkKoba]

enomis stop asking questions and start making more statements. say "I think this is X" not "do you guys think this is X".

no one cares about pointless questions that you demand having answered. "2) For people on bear wagon, do you think the post i quoted is scum bear? I think we should push other slots instead."

Trying to diffuse wagons to go on slots who are actively contributing content.

and trying to shade me for being friendly with joqiza? We are good scum players. If we were a scumteam I promise you that town would not be winning right now. We'd 100% have scum theater and be pushing on PR reads. Just gonna let you discard that theory rn. And what I said about joqiza becoming blatent in their alignment the more the game goes on, that is true. They'll make blatent scum moves oftentimes.

is that enough interaction for you bud?

[Cycle Men]

okay i think im ready to come around on a dkkoba townread here actually
im looking at my own argument and keep finding holes in it

[Clemency]

oh for fucks sake

[midwaybear]

i starting to think that dk+joqiza is less viable after what they just said
and I don't think scum DK would be so concerned if joqiza was town
thus DK gets a townlean, but joqiza remains null

[midwaybear]

I don't even know why people are voting me. I don't even know what I did outside of fluffing