Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 2.5

Target	Wagon
Karnage (2)	skitter30 (1312), GuiltyLion (1313)
Titus (2)	acryon (1427), BBmolla (1447)
skitter30 (1)	Eve (1317)
GuiltyLion (1)	Titus (1514)
Not Voting (3)	The Limit Does Not Exist, Karnage, Auro

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-14 17:47:59).

[Titus]

I guess mislynching nom isn’t really a point in his favor, but at that point I think most people were townreading nom, and I think he was one of the first people to push her so I definitely wouldn’t have called that static or survivalistic.

- Smarter

He might push her with his word, but his votes show differently. Pushing someone but waiting on a wagon to form before voting is pretty much waiting for a crowd. It's our votes that are our power, not our words.

[Titus]

Okay then, help lynch scum today and I'll TR you

Fair enough, but I need your vote Auro. Skitter doesn't feel like scum based on the wagons.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

nsg took the pagetop away from me

Anyway I think my original point still stands - skitter and GL have made similar pushes on the same people since late D1, starting with karnage/nom yesterday and continuing with karnage today. I don’t really understand how one is lazy voteparking but not the other.

- Smarter

[Titus]

nsg took the pagetop away from me

Anyway I think my original point still stands - skitter and GL have made similar pushes on the same people since late D1, starting with karnage/nom yesterday and continuing with karnage today. I don’t really understand how one is lazy voteparking but not the other.

- Smarter

Guilty is following Skitter IMO.

A lot of people don't understand my VCA. My VCA involves looking at wagons, solving what scum want to do, and figuring out who fits that pattern.

Sometimes we get the pattern first, then solve for what scum wanted and who fits that as well.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I guess mislynching nom isn’t really a point in his favor, but at that point I think most people were townreading nom, and I think he was one of the first people to push her so I definitely wouldn’t have called that static or survivalistic.

- Smarter

He might push her with his word, but his votes show differently. Pushing someone but waiting on a wagon to form before voting is pretty much waiting for a crowd. It's our votes that are our power, not our words.

On D1, he was explicitly told not to be on the wagon and I remember he said “I would be voting karnage but out of respect for wagon comp I won’t, this is me voting him in spirit.” I don’t think we can necessarily take lack of voting at face value because of this.

- Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

VOTE: karnage

VOTE: Karnage

This is pretty blatant following, do you think scum does that?

- Smarter

[Titus]

I guess mislynching nom isn’t really a point in his favor, but at that point I think most people were townreading nom, and I think he was one of the first people to push her so I definitely wouldn’t have called that static or survivalistic.

- Smarter

He might push her with his word, but his votes show differently. Pushing someone but waiting on a wagon to form before voting is pretty much waiting for a crowd. It's our votes that are our power, not our words.

On D1, he was explicitly told not to be on the wagon and I remember he said “I would be voting karnage but out of respect for wagon comp I won’t, this is me voting him in spirit.” I don’t think we can necessarily take lack of voting at face value because of this.

- Smarter

And town vote anyway. It's survivalist to go, gee I won't vote scum dead because someone else wanted me not to. If I was in GuiltyLion's spot, I'd be looking at people who were trying to peel the Karnage wagon in this manner.

[Titus]

VOTE: karnage

VOTE: Karnage

This is pretty blatant following, do you think scum does that?

- Smarter

Yes

[Auro]

We screwed with D1 VCA a lot by controlling votes and wagons.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I guess my conclusion is that I have attributed what you call suspicious voting patterns from GL to him being aware that he was not supposed to end up on the final lynch and playing accordingly; and I think you are attributing that primarily to him being scum rather than wagon comp reasons.

- Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

If I was in GuiltyLion's spot, I'd be looking at people who were trying to peel the Karnage wagon in this manner.

Sorry can you explain what this means? I think I’ve been away from mafia for too long.. what is “peel the Karnage wagon” and in what manner?

- Smarter

[Titus]

Ok, we'll agree to disagree. Meanwhile, I'll hunt GuiltyLion's partner.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

We screwed with D1 VCA a lot by controlling votes and wagons.

^

[Titus]

If I was in GuiltyLion's spot, I'd be looking at people who were trying to peel the Karnage wagon in this manner.

Sorry can you explain what this means? I think I’ve been away from mafia for too long.. what is “peel the Karnage wagon” and in what manner?

- Smarter

If I had a scumread, I'd just vote them.

Someone trying to convince me to not vote the scum is peeling for the scum. It's a different way of saying defending but more specific. It's kinda Titusese though. It's peeling people away from the wagon.

After all, if scum get lynched you can check people off the wagon. If town get lynched, you can still check more than half the game. Controlling wagons is stuff for late game, not early game.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Okay I think I get it. Auro was the main person pushing wagon comp early, so you’re saying GL should have been more suspicious of that and pushed Auro more? And that the lack of that is GL playing safe?

I think due to the game mechanics, controlling wagons was always going to be a thing. The traffic analyst only gets valid checks on those who were off the wagon, so it was important to make sure we had at least one scum off the wagon if not two. I think everyone accepted that wagon comp was going to happen. I don’t think GL not pushing Auro a lot for it is suspicious, but iirc GL was one of the few who actually didn’t vote someone because of it, so I see what you’re saying.

- Smarter

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Sorry for being so absent. I have rediscovered the joy that is Super Mario Galaxy and as a result have been on my computer a lot less, and it's a pain to log into the hydra from my phone

Anyway hi Titus, hopefully you can help us breathe some more life into this game. You should definitely try to read up if you can, especially if you're trying to do VCA because a lot of the vote placements were related to mechanics.

-Smart

[Titus]

I am fine. Let's lynch Guilty Lion.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Why is he scum? Because he voteparked?

-Smart

[Titus]

Why is he scum? Because he voteparked?

-Smart

Because of my VCA, yes.

[Eve]

do you have a guide for your VCA Titus?

how do i learn these secrets?

[skitter30]

Doesn't Sauce fit a lot of this picture too?

i guess ...
i kinda felt like his whole reaction to limit pushing 'but you trying not to lynch allo is scummy !!!' thing was townie tho

[skitter30]

@mod: I'm sorry but I would like to replace out

sorry to see you go karnage

[skitter30]

Karnage is locktown now.

it's literally nai, no

[skitter30]

Except town faces a lot more inertia to overcome to solve; scum don't need to be as informed of the gamestate to make a posting effort. This is definitely not NAI

i've literally seen people as both alignments doing that tho
and i think it's technically against site rules these days to:

a) announce that you're repping out in thread
b) vocally read anything into a replacement