Open 778: Nightless Vanilla [Game Over!]

[Firebringer]

if i had doubts about anyone in the golden group, it would be isis. But i am pushing all doubts aside because doubts are bad for town reads.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

2. Norwegian, votato, and ABR all failed to actually give reasons for their Elements vote. votato gave reasons why he should be voting other people. ABR gave reasons why he shouldn't have voted Elements to counter the Cycle wagon. I think that makes each of them suspicious for their separate reasons.

As scum (typically) want to socially distance on votes, because Norwegian was the closest-in-time to Cycle-scum's Elements vote (skipping Ali), he's less suspicious. Also, while Norwegian didn't give a reason for his vote, he doesn't have extra baggage like votato or ABR.

I don't really know which of votato's (giving reasons to vote other players) or ABR's (giving reasons to not join the Elements counterwagon) additional baggage is more suspicious. I'm disinclined to believe that 3 scum were on the Elements-wagon, though, so they're both on my shortlist for today.

The reasons given here are not something i would find scum-indicative. Voting without any stated reason isn't a good scumtell, most players this game have done it at some point, and ABR for example flipped green. Even if the logic works, it implicates votato much more strongly, and also Elements for his behaviour these other days.

Scum either:

was bussing Cycle (Deimos, humna, Isis, FB, Crayons, Elements, Ali)
was voting Elements counterwagon (Norwegian, votato)
or was not voting (Looker)

Norwegian's theory here is that scum was not voting the Elements counterwagon alongside Cycle-scum, which (A) asks the town to avoid scrutinizing the Elements counterwagon which he was one; (B) allows him ignore votato, who would the only potential scum on the Elements counterwagon if Norwegian-town, which is useful if votato-town and Norwegin-scum because now Norwegian doesn't need to come up with bad reasons to vote votato-town; and (C) avoids the obvious sequence of, if votato is town, then Norwegian is the other scum alternative on the Elements counter-wagon.

This is a gross misrepresentation of your theory, which said that there were probably 2, maybe 3 bussers, not that there are definitely 3. So it works as no excuse whatsoever to stop suspecting Elements or Looker (who you even explicitly consider in the same post).

I find it more weird that someone wouldn't know there are 4 scum in this game. Like they are pretending to be idiots to get townread.

If ur town I would honestly like to hydra with you to understand your view on the game, because takes like these are just bad. Not even scummy bad in this case, just flat out bad.

I think the anger is real. I just can’t see a town view getting so angry to call a type of play stupid when there’s not really momentum going his way.

I was not putting in much effort into the game early on, why can't my behaviour come from town here? Firebringer even agreed that it's quite easy to fake stupidity to get townread.

I just saw scum hardbus to transition to wanting to promote the counterwagon to them when they started to play the game

Ie they wanted to bus when the slot was doing nothing, and save it when the slot was doing things

Major confirmation bias here. Just because there exists a world where scum me might do this, it doesn't mean that is the case, when there exist equally many and imo, more worlds where town me would do this.

[northsidegal]

Votecount 4.6

Target	Wagon
NorwegianboyEE (3)	Isis (2012), votato (2082), Firebringer (2100)
votato (1)	Deimos27 (2055)
Not Voting (5)	humaneatingmonkey, NorwegianboyEE, Looker, Elements (2059), Green Crayons (2127)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-17 07:52:59).

[Isis]

I'm so many pages behind.
UNVOTE:
I will read later tonight
I think I only stopped paying attention for like 24 hours or 36 but this game is explosive

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: votato

[Isis]

i'm gonna solve this game

[Isis]

I think you’re probably town and I think we just need to lynch Monkey, Deimos, Votato, and Norwee.
I think that Cycle Men just doesn’t start a push on you and I think he buddied me when he was pushing you to make me look worse.
I think you are more town then those 4 so I am actually just appealing to you.

My heart wants this to be at least 2/4

[Isis]

I love alisae so much

[Isis]

Because right now you are not pushing a read.
You are pushing a fact.

So you being scum is fact?

In the right context a factual way of viewing the game can be scum indicative, which is what Ali was (clearly enough?) driving at. Town is only working with subjective information and scum have objective information.
Discreditty pithy potshots like this look bad to me.

[Firebringer]

why did u unvote?

[Isis]

like looking at VCs a bit more, it does seem like ABR just didn’t want to bus Cycle Men.

In your opinion, how AI is a hammer?

What I am trying to get across is that Looker knows how I play as scum and should be able to identify the difference between that game and this game.

I know how you play with a single, shitty scum partner (hurling thinly-veiled insults at me in thread ), and with no daytalk.

no you're not
I want you to actually explain why that is scummy

Game aside, some players are

extremely

frustrating

Looker is a very easy read
when I was scum with him he didn't even make any real attempts to solve or play the game and when we were town together he correctly identified scum!noms in a way that was confident and he believed in himself and was actively trying to poke other slots and try to find the motivations of others.
I see the exact samething I did in that game in here.

I'm very susceptible to ego strokes.

---

• It's nearly impossible to keep up with all this

---

• @Green Crayons: I like the way you think. My signature's that way for a reason. You're validating my suspicions of Amrun, skitter30, nomnomnom, and so many other players that V/LA or get "angry" conveniently. You're definitely not alone on that one.
  
• @Firebringer: Are you taking into account individual players' post counts as either alignment?

EBWOP: VOTE: Alisae

pedit: I might want votato or hem I wanna read first

[Firebringer]

this is so typical everytime i am no longer interested in a wagon people want to then lynch it.

>.>

[Isis]

well keep in mind I am catching up and seeing Firebringer posts saying "man votato is a great lynch" and that is making me think "oh yeah lots of merit" I am living in the past.

I'll level with you. The more your partners delay on bussing, the more I'm gonna get the associatives I need to solve this game. You can't lynch me. You can't kill. Give your self a favor and self-vote, because you're gonna lose the more you give yourself speaking time.

Is there a reason I shouldn't read this as awful LAMISTing that is coaching scum!Ali on correct play e might not have paid enough attention to? Like.. ick

[Looker]

Sorry Looker, your posts and play just made me really mad in that game.

---

• @Deimos: I thought she was trying to form associatives with me.
  
• @Firebringer: I'm more comfortable with you calling me scum than dumb.

VOTE: votato
Both you and Norway did a last-minute counterwagon to Cycle and all three of us were on Alisae. Sheeping dead town seems like a convenient cover.

---

Happy Mother's Day

[Isis]

Oh cool deimos found his partner for me

[Isis]

I'm relatively convinced Crayons is town now. Norwegian might just be town too.
AMA

Disappointed nobody took me up on this, but I'll explain now that I thought Norwegian is town for his positioning around the Cycle Men wagon.

Spoiler: Norwegian

VOTE: Cycle Man
Weird posts.

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at Cycle men’s ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

Look at ABR's ISO. LOOK AT IT.
If that slot is town then i can safely say gg. We lost.

I disagree. ABR could be excused by inactivity due to being busy IRL. Meanwhile Cycle men has consistently posted garbage. Showing that they had the potential to make good posts, but did not.

Cycle Man

>joins the game, but not really

im sorry did you expect me to have the game solved in half an hour on page 2?
how hard are you gonna try and force this?

Bruh, your defense would look a lot better if you had posted anything at all that would advance the game prior to this.

keyword: pretending

So who are the ones pretending according to you?

You don't have reads, got it.

There are multiple slots in this game i’d be happy to see get policy lynched tbh.

I'm thinking we should find out who this Clemency guy is and lynch him. He looks pretty scummy.

Cycle man joins the battle, your mom, could go for a burger right now.

Yes, it’s a great entrance!

All this time Norwegian is pushing relatively hard (about as hard as can be expected from the memey low-effort playstyle he promised) and promoting a Cycle Men lynch. At this point it's still possible this is a planned bus to win towncred, but I think he commits rather heavily and for surprisingly long (all the way to L-1) before he, eventually, changes his mind, voting HEM and:

Cycle Men. Is it weird if i consider it town that you’re just as confused as i am?

Cycle men you weren’t this active or solvey before. What changed?

Cycle Men's behaviour did change: he became more active and started to effort somewhat, so I think this is a reasonable change in stance, especially seeing as Norwegian's main qualm with him appears to be his contentless jokeposting play. His mechanisms for the read are different than mine, which is why it feels consistent and natural to move off it.

If the plan was to bus the slot, it's still completely possible. Scum look too much at being consistent at how their reads look rather than being consistent with the reasoning behind their reads. There's reason to think scum!Norwegian here would continue to bus rather than move off, something town!Norwegian does probably almost every time with these lines of enquiry.

Element flip will give much more valuable information than Clemency in my opinion. This excessive concern against the initial wagon from Humaneatingmonkey is pretty weird.

At the end of the day he insists that Elements, whom he scumreads, is better than Cycle Men, whom he's less sure about now and has less clear associative tells according to him (at least regarding Alisae). Surface level analysis says this looks scummy for trying to avoid the Cycle Men lynch, which is why scum might be afraid to do so. In any case it's an awfully weak effort if he really wants to derail the wagon, which reflects his remaining uncertainty about the alignment of Cycle Men and how though he thinks Elements lynch is better, he doesn't think it's

that

much better. If the scum gameplan is to sacrifice Cycle Men, he'd be jumping on. If it's to mislynch, he'd fight at least a bit harder.

Upshot is he's quite consistent about the slot and with how he changes his mind, in ways I don't really expect from scum.

I really think this is an unnatural thing to post when Norwee wasn't ultimately on the Cycle Men wagon.

[Isis]

Also you should just dead sheep this and it’ll win you the game, because I’m just at this stage of the game, I have the better read accuracy then most players that are actually playing this including you Elements.

Mean and hurtful to me, probably true, but mean and hurtful

[Isis]

I have the better read accuracy then most players that are actually playing this including you Elements.

That's mean

not that I'm denying it

lol

[Isis]

Ugh I want to gut townread Deimos arguing with a dead person

[votato]

can we listen to alisae? and firebringer? and stop listening to scum?

[Isis]

I agree, firebringer is town that thinks you're not really a unicorn and are scum and I think we should kill you

[Isis]

Why was Alisae such a bad lynch?

I did have the benefit of seeing Ali was twilight townposting. But lynching people not named Norwee or votato before I got my 2 cents in is pretty bad.

I am not sure I would have let Ali survive LyLo with the weight of the VCA of the first two days without further ability to townread what e was doing the rest of the game but I think way too much significance was getting given to the order of votes.

A big thing is I feel willing to bet this mafia game on Fire!town, and he was townreading Ali, and Firebringer has really good reads in the game of mafia, so that made it a pretty bad lynch

[votato]

pretty sure firebringer more or less townreads me at this point.

[Isis]

Answer key on Norwegian

<3

[Isis]

i'm not caught up, Firebringer is this dirty thing true and I am gonna have to sheep you onto killing a non-donkey player?