Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[Titus]

Doesn't this make it even weirder for scum!GL to point out the soft?

No. Once GL realized the soft, an Allomancer lynch was dead and the N1 nk was sealed. Why wouldn't scum GL point it out to look like he's scum hunting.

Because pointing out a softclaim doesn't look like scumhunting? GL didn't question it or use it for scumhunting--he just highlighted it.

Of course, because GL isn't actually scum hunting. That sort of soft pointing out just looks like it. That's my point. There's no town reason to out a soft. As scum it's please verify so I can shoot the PR.

[Titus]

In the VCs you quoted:

Skitter first vote in 1.1, 1.16.
GuiltyLion first vote in 1.1, 1.23

GL was literally the first vote in equally as much wagons as Skit from the ones you quoted here. Hardly sheepy at all

GL has a bunch of sheep votes in the middle. Also 1.23 is end of day. Second, 1.23 GL is only first because others peeled off. Hardly leading a charge there. Skitter's first vote is on GL in 1.16. Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

[Auro]

Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

Citation needed.

please cop lynch Karnage or Me if this flips green, not Skit

[acryon]

Doesn't this make it even weirder for scum!GL to point out the soft?

No. Once GL realized the soft, an Allomancer lynch was dead and the N1 nk was sealed. Why wouldn't scum GL point it out to look like he's scum hunting.

Because pointing out a softclaim doesn't look like scumhunting? GL didn't question it or use it for scumhunting--he just highlighted it.

Of course, because GL isn't actually scum hunting. That sort of soft pointing out just looks like it. That's my point. There's no town reason to out a soft. As scum it's please verify so I can shoot the PR.

Ok except that by pointing to it, town has

confirmation

that he saw it, and we know by the NK that scum saw it. Not sure addressing it directly for the purposes of confirming it for himself is worth putting himself into the scumpool.

[Titus]

Suddenly Skitter is suspect enough to be copped.

Citation needed.

please cop lynch Karnage or Me if this flips green, not Skit

End of day wagon, Skitter is off it. I was referring to the collective consensus. Since y'all positioned for the TA.

GL wouldn't want Skitter to be conftown. That's conftown pushing him. Town would want to know if their biggest detractor was town or scum.

[Titus]

Doesn't this make it even weirder for scum!GL to point out the soft?

No. Once GL realized the soft, an Allomancer lynch was dead and the N1 nk was sealed. Why wouldn't scum GL point it out to look like he's scum hunting.

Because pointing out a softclaim doesn't look like scumhunting? GL didn't question it or use it for scumhunting--he just highlighted it.

Of course, because GL isn't actually scum hunting. That sort of soft pointing out just looks like it. That's my point. There's no town reason to out a soft. As scum it's please verify so I can shoot the PR.

Ok except that by pointing to it, town has

confirmation

that he saw it, and we know by the NK that scum saw it. Not sure addressing it directly for the purposes of confirming it for himself is worth putting himself into the scumpool.

Is he really in the scumpool though? The only two people pushing GL are being return pushed as suspects.

[acryon]

Is he really in the scumpool though? The only two people pushing GL are being return pushed as suspects.

Not at the moment, but he couldn't know that yesterday. Anyone that didn't comment on it yesterday gets some level of deniability--GL gets none. I'm just not sure why you would want to be so closely connected to the most pivotal post in the game. Even if you could gain good info as scum there, why raise your profile that high?

[Titus]

Is he really in the scumpool though? The only two people pushing GL are being return pushed as suspects.

Not at the moment, but he couldn't know that yesterday. Anyone that didn't comment on it yesterday gets some level of deniability--GL gets none. I'm just not sure why you would want to be so closely connected to the most pivotal post in the game. Even if you could gain good info as scum there, why raise your profile that high?

Because it confirms or denies the cop, the only major PR in the game. Killing the TA makes the game mountainous which 2 v 7 scum win a lot of the time.

[acryon]

Is he really in the scumpool though? The only two people pushing GL are being return pushed as suspects.

Not at the moment, but he couldn't know that yesterday. Anyone that didn't comment on it yesterday gets some level of deniability--GL gets none. I'm just not sure why you would want to be so closely connected to the most pivotal post in the game. Even if you could gain good info as scum there, why raise your profile that high?

Because it confirms or denies the cop, the only major PR in the game. Killing the TA makes the game mountainous which 2 v 7 scum win a lot of the time.

That's true, but that wagon was ready to wrap. Allo got an additional vote AFTER the soft, so it's clear not many saw it at the time. If anything, pointing it out stops the wagon.

And is scum!GL really brazen enough to say this:

I don't see how the Allo situation gets better tomorrow either, so at the very least we remove a distraction.

I think the Allo situation resolves itself

[Titus]

Is he really in the scumpool though? The only two people pushing GL are being return pushed as suspects.

Not at the moment, but he couldn't know that yesterday. Anyone that didn't comment on it yesterday gets some level of deniability--GL gets none. I'm just not sure why you would want to be so closely connected to the most pivotal post in the game. Even if you could gain good info as scum there, why raise your profile that high?

Because it confirms or denies the cop, the only major PR in the game. Killing the TA makes the game mountainous which 2 v 7 scum win a lot of the time.

That's true, but that wagon was ready to wrap. Allo got an additional vote AFTER the soft, so it's clear not many saw it at the time. If anything, pointing it out stops the wagon.

And is scum!GL really brazen enough to say this:

I don't see how the Allo situation gets better tomorrow either, so at the very least we remove a distraction.

I think the Allo situation resolves itself

Pointing out the soft doesn't stop the wagon. You illustrated that. It's Allo's threat of claiming that stops his wagon.

GL is basically saying scum shoot Allomancer if he's the TA. That's pretty common sense and NAI. GL's quote isn't scummy to say Allo is self-resolving because it's true.

[Titus]

Like GL's play here is pretty caught scum.
Auro's play here is "GL might be scum but Skitter first".

I don't need to make up reasons for those two to be scum.

If I am wrong, the last scum is Eve due to sucking up and leaving.

[acryon]

Pointing out the soft doesn't stop the wagon. You illustrated that. It's Allo's threat of claiming that stops his wagon.

Actually it was me backing off for unrelated reasons (call me thick, but I didn't see the soft) that first curbed the wagon. If GL wasn't sure if Allo was TA or not, why not just stay silent and let him

actually

claim from wagon pressure rather than get involved at all? Why risk your neck?

GL is basically saying scum shoot Allomancer if he's the TA. That's pretty common sense and NAI. GL's quote isn't scummy to say Allo is self-resolving because it's true.

Ok except people weren't talking about him being the TA. I know you're just jumping into the game now and seeing things in hindsight, but it was certainly

not

some generally accepted thought that he had claimed TA. Multiple people (including myself at points) were still pushing for an Allo lynch.

[Titus]

Pointing out the soft doesn't stop the wagon. You illustrated that. It's Allo's threat of claiming that stops his wagon.

Actually it was me backing off for unrelated reasons (call me thick, but I didn't see the soft) that first curbed the wagon. If GL wasn't sure if Allo was TA or not, why not just stay silent and let him

actually

claim from wagon pressure rather than get involved at all? Why risk your neck?

GL is basically saying scum shoot Allomancer if he's the TA. That's pretty common sense and NAI. GL's quote isn't scummy to say Allo is self-resolving because it's true.

Ok except people weren't talking about him being the TA. I know you're just jumping into the game now and seeing things in hindsight, but it was certainly

not

some generally accepted thought that he had claimed TA. Multiple people (including myself at points) were still pushing for an Allo lynch.

The soft was so blatant to GL it might as well have been a claim.

You pushed after the soft is irrellevant. Scum knew it wasn't going through. Just because you didn't see something doesn't mean it wasn't there.

I feel so frustrated with everyone. I feel like this is a pride thing. Town collectively at this point has wagoned wrong twice (Allo and Nom) and threatened three more times wrong (Carnage/AH, me, Skitter). What is it going to take to get people to listen rather than be stuck in stubborn pride?

[Titus]

If your best post for GL scum hunting is showing him PR hunting, maybe take a step back and realize he's scum?

[acryon]

The soft was so blatant to GL it might as well have been a claim.

Thank you for giving me the inner thoughts of GL. I think if he was really

that

confident in it, he would've pushed a bit harder against Allo suspicion as either alignment.

You pushed after the soft is irrellevant. Scum knew it wasn't going through. Just because you didn't see something doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Thank you for giving me the inner thoughts of scum. As others have pointed out,

multiple

people continued to vote/push Allo at various points in the day after the soft. So you can waltz in here with full information of a day and talk about how obvious it was, but that's pretty easy for you to say, isn't it?

I feel so frustrated with everyone. I feel like this is a pride thing. Town collectively at this point has wagoned wrong twice (Allo and Nom) and threatened three more times wrong (Carnage/AH, me, Skitter). What is it going to take to get people to listen rather than be stuck in stubborn pride?

It must be really tough being omniscient. Doesn't sound like much fun.

[Titus]

It must be really tough being omniscient. Doesn't sound like much fun.

The sass isn't fun. It would be fun if I felt like there was an actual conversation but instead I feel like it's let's shoot Titus down so we can get back to mislynching.

[acryon]

Well here's the problem Titus: there are only two people in this game that have perfect information. So if you're actually town, you may want to stop acting like you're one of them.

[Titus]

Well here's the problem Titus: there are only two people in this game that have perfect information. So if you're actually town, you may want to stop acting like you're one of them.

I did put a suggestion in case I was wrong, but you guys are acting like you have information which says GL is innocent and refusing to even consider he was scum.

I did look at the votes assuming I was wrong too. No one engaged that either. It was just objections to my methods because y'all knew better and "leashed scum".

[acryon]

Well here's the problem Titus: there are only two people in this game that have perfect information. So if you're actually town, you may want to stop acting like you're one of them.

I did put a suggestion in case I was wrong, but you guys are acting like you have information which says GL is innocent and refusing to even consider he was scum.

I did look at the votes assuming I was wrong too. No one engaged that either. It was just objections to my methods because y'all knew better and "leashed scum".

I mean I can't speak for others, but I just disagree with your reasoning.

It's certainly possible I'm wrong too, but I just don't think VCA is even close to the best way to try and analyze that day 1 given the dynamics at play. So IMO, it is fundamentally flawed.

GL is not conftown to me. But I also think you might be scum, so that certainly makes me less likely to get on board with what you have to offer, especially if I fundamentally disagree with it.

[Titus]

Well here's the problem Titus: there are only two people in this game that have perfect information. So if you're actually town, you may want to stop acting like you're one of them.

I did put a suggestion in case I was wrong, but you guys are acting like you have information which says GL is innocent and refusing to even consider he was scum.

I did look at the votes assuming I was wrong too. No one engaged that either. It was just objections to my methods because y'all knew better and "leashed scum".

I mean I can't speak for others, but I just disagree with your reasoning.

It's certainly possible I'm wrong too, but I just don't think VCA is even close to the best way to try and analyze that day 1 given the dynamics at play. So IMO, it is fundamentally flawed.

GL is not conftown to me. But I also think you might be scum, so that certainly makes me less likely to get on board with what you have to offer, especially if I fundamentally disagree with it.

It's OK to disagree with my VCA. It's not OK to try and act like you're better than me because you think the VC game leashed scum when its obvious from the two town wagons that scum were fine going along with it.

I scumhunt differently and use words as a backstop. No one engages those either. I commented on how Aurora is distancing from GL. I get crickets. No one even asking what I mean. It's like trying to stop a train with my bare hands. I have to be Supergirl.

[acryon]

It's OK to disagree with my VCA. It's not OK to try and act like you're better than me because you think the VC game leashed scum when its obvious from the two town wagons that scum were fine going along with it.

I scumhunt differently and use words as a backstop. No one engages those either. I commented on how Aurora is distancing from GL. I get crickets. No one even asking what I mean. It's like trying to stop a train with my bare hands. I have to be Supergirl.

I definitely don't think that I am better than you. I also don't necessarily believe the VC game leashed scum; I just think the way the day went

significantly

impacted when and where people were voting enough that helpful VCA is going to be impossible.

I shouldn't let my heart win here, but I think I'm going to for now. I need to go back to the drawing board.

UNVOTE:

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

Doubling down on "I've suspected Auro all along" and then linking times you disagreed with Auro aint great though GL I gotta tell ya

I mean, it's perfectly possible that he had those suspicions and never was really obvious about them. Since he said "low-key" that's kind of what it implies.

-Smart

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@GuiltyLion You should focus a little on building consensus about 1/0 with Skitter, tbh

And vice versa, actually. Why do you think this is out of skitter's scumrange?

-Smart

[acryon]

Doubling down on "I've suspected Auro all along" and then linking times you disagreed with Auro aint great though GL I gotta tell ya

I mean, it's perfectly possible that he had those suspicions and never was really obvious about them. Since he said "low-key" that's kind of what it implies.

-Smart

Yes but I do agree that's not a great look. Doesn't feel very townie to proactively provide justification like that.

[Titus]

Doubling down on "I've suspected Auro all along" and then linking times you disagreed with Auro aint great though GL I gotta tell ya

I mean, it's perfectly possible that he had those suspicions and never was really obvious about them. Since he said "low-key" that's kind of what it implies.

-Smart

Or GL and Auro are distancing and it's theatre.