Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[acryon]

After reading through quite a bit, if just one of Auro/GL is scum, I think it's Auro, but I think I could see either. Both seem to throw some amount of suspicion at each other but neither ever makes a move to push, despite both being very active.

I suspected Auro Day 1, but he talked me out of it due to all the copbloc stuff he was doing and the WIFOM around that.

[Auro]

You indicated "meh-town" a while back, but recent posts seem to imply you're stronger on that read?

I usually point out bad logic regardless of my read on the person it's applied upon.

[Auro]

It's never entirely clear how you're feeling on him.

"Scum in Skitter/Titus, otherwise I think GL"

How is that not clear enough? What do you want, like percentages or something?

[Auro]

Acryon: "I'll ignore the walls where Auro's pushing GL pretty hard, then say he's never really pushing GL!"

[Auro]

VOTE: Crayon

[acryon]

It's never entirely clear how you're feeling on him.

"Scum in Skitter/Titus, otherwise I think GL"

How is that not clear enough? What do you want, like percentages or something?

For someone who is a tertiary scum-read, you seem to be giving him a lot trust. Do you see why that's confusing? He's "meh-town", but he's also apparently one of your top scumreads, but he's also one of the key people you keep engaging with. Your stance on him is

still

unclear.

Pedit: Oof.

[acryon]

"Pushing him" while your vote sat on Eve the whole time. I know you already commented on this, but again that's a confusing position.

[acryon]

If you

still

don't see why your stances are unclear, i"ll help you with these posts from you 2 posts apart.

"Scum in Skitter/Titus, otherwise I think GL"

VOTE: Crayon

[Auro]

Auro what would you think if Titus flips town

It's useful to sort this out anyway because I could very well be conf-biased.

Why would Eve be scum if Titus is town? I don't see it.

Yes... I could be wrong. There are quite a few indicators that GL is town, and some important ones that GL is scum. I am not sure.
That does not mean I can't work with him. That doesn't mean I can't try to achieve consensus. If he's scum, and he's trying to mislead me, this will give me a small chance to detect it. If he's town,

great

, we're working together and he's a capable scumhunter who's also involved enough in the game.

Titus, apologies for my cheeky posts (unless you are amused by them, it's bad form even if you are scum).

GL, Titus' last post is towny. I'll still have to reconcile the weightage I'm assigning to the Rex slip (I disagreed with Skitter's case against it).

"Pushing him" while your vote sat on Eve the whole time. I know you already commented on this, but again that's a confusing position.

I belong to the school of thought that a vote isn't necessarily required to push someone. A vote is a tool, yes, but I believe my pushes are equally effective even if I'm not voting the person.
Do you think the person I'm pushing thinks, "oh, so they're not voting me, I guess their posts pushing me don't mean much"?
Wagon building is a different matter.

If you

still

don't see why your stances are unclear, i"ll help you with these posts from you 2 posts apart.

"Scum in Skitter/Titus, otherwise I think GL"

VOTE: Crayon

The quoted was what I was saying earlier, which seems pretty clear, which somehow you found unclear.
The vote is a result of your recent posting, my stance on Titus shifting, and my beginning to doubt my earlier evaluation of you.

[Auro]

a) it was not a slip, it made sense given his general approach to the game; also i'm not soft-defending it, i'm hard-defending it, this is a silly reason to push the slot
b) none of these are really reasons to scumread me in particular either beyond 'i think that there's competent scum out there'. like beyond poe / my disagreeing about my slip why am i scum here?

To a), note that he volunteered to answer it and wasn't questioned directly. This means he had enough awareness to remember that he "derailed" the Allo wagon post slip (and he unvoted while he was the only vote there, mind). If he remembered this much, he should also accurately remember the reasons he unvoted for (that he thought Allo townposted) versus what he said (wanted more time), right? Doesn't it feel a bit icky? I feel like {remember the reason for unvoting} and {remember that he unvoted} should be strongly tied.

To b), yes. Beyond PoE/your defense of the slip/your associations with Titus scum, I also have the argument about cop lynch priors/confidence/competence, and beyond that... not much. There's your 1/0 read which I find problematic; under the assumption that most of my townreads were correct at that point of time and were difficult lynches you'd have to carve out a winpath (which is slightly easier if you establish suspicion on slots you plan to lynch in advance, rather than when it's too late). Beyond that? Nothing much. I don't think you're the kind of scum player I'd catch for "being scummy" in the classical sense of it.

[acryon]

"Pushing him" while your vote sat on Eve the whole time. I know you already commented on this, but again that's a confusing position.

I belong to the school of thought that a vote isn't necessarily required to push someone. A vote is a tool, yes, but I believe my pushes are equally effective even if I'm not voting the person.
Do you think the person I'm pushing thinks, "oh, so they're not voting me, I guess their posts pushing me don't mean much"?
Wagon building is a different matter.

I agree with this, and the part where your push lacks teeth is in regards to wagon building. Votes follow votes a lot more often than they follow vote-less pushes.

If you

still

don't see why your stances are unclear, i"ll help you with these posts from you 2 posts apart.

"Scum in Skitter/Titus, otherwise I think GL"

VOTE: Crayon

The quoted was what I was saying earlier, which seems pretty clear, which somehow you found unclear.
The vote is a result of your recent posting, my stance on Titus shifting, and my beginning to doubt my earlier evaluation of you.

It's not that I found it unclear, but if things had deviated significantly since then (which it's clear now they have), it feels odd for you to leave that out.

[Auro]

I agree with this, and the part where your push lacks teeth is in regards to wagon building. Votes follow votes a lot more often than they follow vote-less pushes.

Personal reactions to verbal pushes are a different from wagon pushes.
Contextually one thing can hold more significance than the other.

As to your latter part, I thought it was implied from the vote

[acryon]

So is Titus above or below GL on your scumlist?

[Auro]

Below. I need to do a good amount of re-evaluation, my confidences are low for the majority of reads at this point.

[GuiltyLion]

Acryon what happened to your Eve scumread? You spent most of D1 voting Eve and still seemed suspicious of her D2, but have barely interacted with her or pushed her today

[Atarashi Hajimari]

I wonder if I should extend my acryon case to cover his more recent posting because theres a lot of not very good there.

[Titus]

I wonder if I should extend my acryon case to cover his more recent posting because theres a lot of not very good there.

Please do, because I'd like to show you he's town or be proven wrong.

If I can't convince GL is scum, then I can prove everyone else town. At least it checks my work on my town block regardless.

[skitter30]

Skitter I don't like when you do these catchups where you question a bunch of things but don't really add in new direction beyond that - who's your ideal lynch right now?

i don't think Titus is scum and i don't think I'll be voting there rn
i will admit that that read largely comes from rex and that Titus is being remarkably like ~bullheaded~ and i can understand why she's being pushed but i'm not interested in that wagon

i'm like begrudgingly calling limit town, but mostly how Lilith responded to me in the past few pages

acryon is town; atarashi i'm still on the fence over cuz karnage was pretty bad but i'm not sure that scum!atarashi a) puts so much effort into the game b) comes into the game trying to lynch one of the more townread players
(although if he's scum it's probably with like auro or something because of his sudden support for the acryon thing)

you're town

auro ... i'm not super liking his push on me tbh. i also feel like most of his day1 town posting revolved around the cop but that now that that's gone his like 'hook' for how he's approaching the game has become rather flat.
i'm kinda baffled how he thinks that me/titus are partners here, and i'm not sure why he isn't really pushing me but rather talking around me and calling me scum without doing much about it; his interactions with you are kinda nitpicky and retreading the same ground over and over again; his switch to acryon here is bad

and eve i'm scumreading

this is roughly where i'm at ^

[skitter30]

titus, gl isn't happening today, find someone else to push
he's town and you're reading him badly off of fallacious assumptions

[skitter30]

Self-meta makes me very uncomfortable. As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't like proactively offering up reasons for why you would or wouldn't do something as scum. It's total WIFOM, and I don't think town really needs to do it.

literally nai, i do this as both alignments all the time

[skitter30]

VOTE: Crayon

like this doesn't make much sense as a pivot away from scum!Titus, he should be like voting me or something

[skitter30]

also can we assume i'm better with associatives as scum than like badly chain-sawing my partner via starting a 1v1 with one of the more townread players of the game,

auro what exactly was i doing when i defended rex the first time?

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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