Mini Normal 2139: No Flavor Allowed - Game Over

Umlaut · Post Post #1425 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 6:40 am

You investigated Brass, got a guilty, and immediately voted Cakez?

Umlaut · Post Post #1426 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 6:40 am

Then outed as one-shot cop but didn't out your one result?

Umlaut · Post Post #1427 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 6:41 am

Which, again, was a guilty. On a person you weren't voting

Umlaut · Post Post #1428 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 6:44 am

VOTE: Ame

Ame · Post Post #1429 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 6:47 am

ISO · Post Post #1430 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:21 am

In post 1411, Zulfy wrote:If not for the disappearance then why?

Also Looker: I think it's no.

their day 1 behavior

Umlaut Ame is scum

clidd · Post Post #1431 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:27 am

Ame, can you play like a normal Town!Ame ?

I think you act much more towny as scum than town, but I'm not getting to understand you in this game anymore.

clidd · Post Post #1432 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:31 am

In post 1420, Hoctac wrote:clidd, I don't think posting in the scum PT would influence the majority of mods' decisions for replacements, for exactly for the reasons that you're using to draw that Reundo is scum (would be unfair).

Yes, it's NAI.

Zulfy · Post Post #1433 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:38 am

VOTE: Ame

clidd · Post Post #1434 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:40 am

Zulfy · Post Post #1435 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:41 am

Valoneast and Hoctac are both down to vote Ame.

Zulfy · Post Post #1436 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:42 am

In post 1430, SirCakez wrote:their day 1 behavior

what about their day 1 behavior did you not like, and what's your feeling on: Umlaut?

ISO · Post Post #1437 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:45 am

In post 1436, Zulfy wrote:
In post 1430, SirCakez wrote:their day 1 behavior
what about their day 1 behavior did you not like, and what's your feeling on: Umlaut?

They coasted for all of it and avoided talking about brass
No opinion on Umlaut atm

clidd · Post Post #1438 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 7:46 am

In post 1435, Zulfy wrote:Valoneast and Hoctac are both down to vote Ame.

Are they ?

Hoctac · Post Post #1439 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 8:14 am

I still have no idea what to think of Ame lol. I agree with what clidd was saying that this feels so sloppy and scummy and therefore looks nothing like Ame's scum game.

Hoctac · Post Post #1440 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 8:14 am

In post 1425, Umlaut wrote:You investigated Brass, got a guilty, and immediately voted Cakez?

In post 1426, Umlaut wrote:Then outed as one-shot cop but didn't out your one result?

In post 1427, Umlaut wrote:Which, again, was a guilty. On a person you weren't voting

Why did you do this, Ame?

Zulfy · Post Post #1441 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 8:31 am

In post 1437, SirCakez wrote:They coasted for all of it and avoided talking about brass
No opinion on Umlaut atm

Spoiler: is this what coasting is to you

Hi thanks for clicking on this spoiler, I don't mean for you to read all of this I just mean that the volume of work here is not something I would describe as coasting for all of the day. Excerpts of brass slot mentions in the next spoiler.

In post 190, Reundo wrote:Aight, I'm here now. My thoughts on the game so far:

Clidd to me reads pretty obvious town. I didn't really jive with his early accusation of Lucky since it seemed pretty far-fetched, but it did spark a lot of conversation and he didn't let it drag on longer than he needed to, plus he seems thoroughly engaged with the game and has pretty solid reads so far. Umlaut similarly seems like he's actively game-solving with his questioning and commentary here and there, plus I thought his flip-flopping on Hoctac was pretty natural, although he's not as strong as a town-read. Klick I haven't agreed with a lot of his assessments, particularly his stance on Lucky and early SRing of Umlaut, but I do find it easy to see where he's coming from when he lays out his reasoning and reads a lot like an open book. I wasn't a huge fan of Pers early game but I think his catch-up looked towny albeit excessive, and I've agreed with most of farside's takes so far. valoneast is coming off more like newb!town than newb!scum to me so far, and I think his "spitballing" read pretty genuine, although it's not a strong TR atm. Hoctac's tone is pretty hard to read and I'm not quite sure when he's serious and when he's joking, I'm leaning towards him being lynchbaity town for the moment but I'm not putting much stock in that either.

I had early town pings from Zulfy through his interactions through Lucky/clidd thought looking back it wasn't as meaningful as I'd thought and I'd need more from him before I make up my mind. I thought this post from Cakez was kind of towny but otherwise I don't have a strong impression of him yet. Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way. Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum. I'm finding Ragman's content pretty underwhelming, and I'm not a huge fan of him prodding other's for their reads whilst not really giving out any himself. I thought this post felt almost like a repeat of valoneast's post (in terms of "I can't read y'all b/c you keep referring to other games", which I don't think is true anyways), and I'm not getting great vibes off of that either. I'm fine voting him for the moment.

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

In post 407, Reundo wrote:Some thoughts before bed: Lucky's pretty strong town for me since he posted his wall, and that's been solidified through the rest of his posting. His posts and analysis are pretty in-depth and it's not difficult to follow his train of thought, plus I liked how he didn't really hold back in his questioning of clidd, his engagement feels pretty genuine overall. My read of valoneast has also strengthened once some of that newbie-awkwardness started to fade away, I do get the impression he's genuinely scum-hunting and trying his best to contribute / adapt to the game. I was worried Pers's burst of activity / actual scum-hunting would only be a one-time thing, and his pointless pop-in really doesn't help with that. I'm pretty underwhelmed with brassherald's replace-in, there's a lot of fluff in there and what game-relevant content in there isn't very fleshed out, and it also doesn't help that their predecessor wasn't great either. I'm not thrilled with Zulfy's disappearance but I don't think it's AI. I'm pretty confused by the wagon on Klick as his play so far seems pretty town-motivated, and I don't feel great about most of the players on it except SirCakez to some extent. I was hoping Ragman would give some more content upon his pop-in, but I'm pretty underwhelmed.

@Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?

@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.

In post 749, Reundo wrote:This game's been moving a lot faster than I anticipated, and the constant replacements aren't really helping with that. I'll be around for a while now at least.

I've been thinking about the Klick/Quick slot for a while and at this point I'm leaning more town than scum. I find myself having to make less concessions when analyzing their play from a town perspective rather than a scum one. Like I'm not sure why Klick would want to make post 150 as scum anyhow. It wouldn't really help for town-cred since if anything it'll draw even more suspicion (questions like "why ask Atarashi/Hoctac in particular?"). Calling out them in particular seems very deliberate, and it'd be a pretty notable lapse of judgment for him to go the extent of almost pretending to be an Informed Townie himself and forget he wasn't supposed to know about the neighborhood. Otoh I think it's plausible that town!Klick would either want to give a heads up to the neighborhood or leave a crumb that he is informed (though leaving out Zulfy does hamper this theory slightly). Quick's first vote on Hoctac would make sense if he did indeed know there were scum in the neighborhood, as does his later vote on Zulfy (though I don't entirely follow the progression there), and his earlier paranoia about whether or not Klick claimed also coincides with his later reaction when Hoctac essentially forced him to claim. They could just be happy coincidences and things just happened to line up in his favor, but I'm not seeing it. I do have some issues with Quick's ISO, primarily his weird interaction with SirCakez and him ignoring basic questions about his role this past page (and as far as Klick goes, I did read a part of his scum ISO and realized he had a wider scum-range than I realized), but overall I'm not that concerned about him at the moment.

In post 750, Reundo wrote:In terms of Hoctac's case itself, I don't think he really went about it the right way (someone mentioned that he shouldn't have given scum!Quick an out by claiming Informed, which I agree with), but that would make sense considering he's a newbie. I do feel his overeagerness at having caught scum (from his POV) does ring pretty townie, and while I don't necessarily agree with his scum-tells I can definitely see where he's coming from, though I have had to re-read some of the early game thanks to him linking one of Klick's early posts and the shift in tone from his first posts to now is a bit jarring. It almost seems like he's more playful that he was at the start of the game, and I'm not entirely sure how to make of it.

In post 751, Reundo wrote:I think Persival's outburst was over the top but more likely to come from town than scum, though I'm not thrilled with Ame's lack of content atm. At first I thought he wouldn't really claim a PR if he were scum until I remembered he thought he was walking out the door anyhow, but I still feel that "fuck it" frustration is a bit more likely to come from town overall.

In post 761, Reundo wrote:
In post 414, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
In post 407, Reundo wrote: @Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?
Too many townreads, I don't see where the confidence is coming from to give farside, sircakez a strong townread so fast. clidd went from good townread (#211) to mild scum (#355), though I believe he made no scummy posts in between. I went from neutral (#175) to scum (#211) though I didn't post in between. I'm thinking it's scum sheeping farside.
I did not like this reply to my post from Ragman from earlier before he rep'ed out. "Too many townreads" feels pretty echoey from what's already been said ITT, and he's had an SR on Klick since earlier in the game yet only comments on his most recent readlists, which hadn't been posted when I first probed him about his Klick read, so that clearly couldn't have been all there was to it if it were genuine. He didn't really have any unique takes of his own and pretty much followed along with the crowd, and while I could potentially see it coming from newb!town I feel like newb!scum has a lot more incentive to blend in with the crowd and not try to make any big waves. Looker's posts haven't improved my read on his slot, and some of his comments don't even make that much sense (IE asking SirCakez "Are Reundo, Farside22, and SirCakez all guaranteed town?" does not make sense with regards to either the Cakez post he quoted, Cakez reads, or his own reads judging by the comment he made about me at the end of that post).

@Looker what prompted the sudden switch from saying you'd vote either Hoctac or Lucky to voting Quick?

In post 762, Reundo wrote:Basically at this point my strongest town-reads are clidd, Umlaut, and valoneast, probably SirCakez as well. Lucky's absence is a bit worrying but I understand the need to break away from the game sometimes, I still think he's town too. Hoctac and farside are giving me town pings but not enough for me to TR them strongly, Quick I'm still not exactly sure how to read tbh (and looking through Looker's ISO pulled up this post from Quick which comes off kind of awkward), but they're slightly above null. Ame's also leaning town a bit but that convo with them rubbed me the wrong way. I thought this meta read on clidd was kind of towny but otherwise I don't feel great about brass's slot, and I'm finding Zulfy and Looker pretty scummy, I'll stay on Looker for now.

In post 847, Reundo wrote:
In post 821, LuckyLuciano wrote:I wouldn't say Quick has ignored questions about his role. He's been absent since the questions appeared. Also, I still don't see how town!Quick immediately gravitates towards a Hoctac vote over any other member of the hood, especially given that he hadn't read any content yet. I think you have to make far more concessions to say that Quick RNG'd his eventual scumread, and found him scummy every step of the way as town than as mafia.
Those questions were asked before he made that Looker vote, so yeah I would say they were ignored, or at least missed. I could easily see it as just an RVS vote from town!Quick initially (albeit informed since he'd know there were scum in the neighborhood so he'd be more inclined to vote in there), and as Hoctac was especially controversial early on I don't find it implausible that he'd "RNG" into his scum-read. And I'm not sure why scum!Quick would be inclined to be so stubborn about their initial vote that they felt they had to contextualize Hoctac's posts as coming from scum, he could've easily decided to just change his mind or move his vote if scum!him felt it wasn't the best course of action, so I don't find that very convincing.

Spoiler: avoiding talking about brass then

I hope with this new information you are able to consider better options to vote on than the Reundo slot. Please try to pay attention to the game that you are playing in.

Zulfy · Post Post #1442 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 8:36 am

Sorry I shouldn't sound all scold-y.

Zulfy · Post Post #1443 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 8:51 am

While we wait on the Ame lynch train I'd like to know why farside was night killed.

Ame · Post Post #1444 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:00 am

In post 1440, Hoctac wrote:Why did you do this, Ame?

didn't want to quick lynch or spend the day on a person I already knew was scum. had we utilized the day we possibly could have gotten some spew based on who brass tried to push

Ame · Post Post #1445 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:03 am

In post 1443, Zulfy wrote:While we wait on the Ame lynch train I'd like to know why farside was night killed.

What do you mean? She was a universal town read correct?

Hour Glass Lucario was killed by Clidd btw.

ISO · Post Post #1446 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 am

I'm not even voting Reundo, Zulfy
I think the posts themselves were decent but it didn't really look like active scumhunting

ISO · Post Post #1447 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 am

thus coasting

ISO · Post Post #1448 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:09 am

I forgot brass replaced Atarashi so that part of my read was wrong yes

clidd · Post Post #1449 (ISO) » Mon May 18, 2020 9:16 am

In post 1441, Zulfy wrote:
In post 1437, SirCakez wrote:They coasted for all of it and avoided talking about brass
No opinion on Umlaut atm

Spoiler: is this what coasting is to you
Hi thanks for clicking on this spoiler, I don't mean for you to read all of this I just mean that the volume of work here is not something I would describe as coasting for all of the day. Excerpts of brass slot mentions in the next spoiler.

In post 190, Reundo wrote:Aight, I'm here now. My thoughts on the game so far:

Clidd to me reads pretty obvious town. I didn't really jive with his early accusation of Lucky since it seemed pretty far-fetched, but it did spark a lot of conversation and he didn't let it drag on longer than he needed to, plus he seems thoroughly engaged with the game and has pretty solid reads so far. Umlaut similarly seems like he's actively game-solving with his questioning and commentary here and there, plus I thought his flip-flopping on Hoctac was pretty natural, although he's not as strong as a town-read. Klick I haven't agreed with a lot of his assessments, particularly his stance on Lucky and early SRing of Umlaut, but I do find it easy to see where he's coming from when he lays out his reasoning and reads a lot like an open book. I wasn't a huge fan of Pers early game but I think his catch-up looked towny albeit excessive, and I've agreed with most of farside's takes so far. valoneast is coming off more like newb!town than newb!scum to me so far, and I think his "spitballing" read pretty genuine, although it's not a strong TR atm. Hoctac's tone is pretty hard to read and I'm not quite sure when he's serious and when he's joking, I'm leaning towards him being lynchbaity town for the moment but I'm not putting much stock in that either.

I had early town pings from Zulfy through his interactions through Lucky/clidd thought looking back it wasn't as meaningful as I'd thought and I'd need more from him before I make up my mind. I thought this post from Cakez was kind of towny but otherwise I don't have a strong impression of him yet. Lucky's aggression to me did feel pretty towny at first and looked more like it came from town who was pissed at being misrepresented, but the first sentence of this post does ping me the wrong way. Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum. I'm finding Ragman's content pretty underwhelming, and I'm not a huge fan of him prodding other's for their reads whilst not really giving out any himself. I thought this post felt almost like a repeat of valoneast's post (in terms of "I can't read y'all b/c you keep referring to other games", which I don't think is true anyways), and I'm not getting great vibes off of that either. I'm fine voting him for the moment.

VOTE: Ragman Saul Rima

In post 407, Reundo wrote:Some thoughts before bed: Lucky's pretty strong town for me since he posted his wall, and that's been solidified through the rest of his posting. His posts and analysis are pretty in-depth and it's not difficult to follow his train of thought, plus I liked how he didn't really hold back in his questioning of clidd, his engagement feels pretty genuine overall. My read of valoneast has also strengthened once some of that newbie-awkwardness started to fade away, I do get the impression he's genuinely scum-hunting and trying his best to contribute / adapt to the game. I was worried Pers's burst of activity / actual scum-hunting would only be a one-time thing, and his pointless pop-in really doesn't help with that. I'm pretty underwhelmed with brassherald's replace-in, there's a lot of fluff in there and what game-relevant content in there isn't very fleshed out, and it also doesn't help that their predecessor wasn't great either. I'm not thrilled with Zulfy's disappearance but I don't think it's AI. I'm pretty confused by the wagon on Klick as his play so far seems pretty town-motivated, and I don't feel great about most of the players on it except SirCakez to some extent. I was hoping Ragman would give some more content upon his pop-in, but I'm pretty underwhelmed.

@Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?

@Klick I can mostly jive with your reads list but why did clidd drop down in your reads? His posting has been pretty consistent to me so far.

In post 749, Reundo wrote:This game's been moving a lot faster than I anticipated, and the constant replacements aren't really helping with that. I'll be around for a while now at least.

I've been thinking about the Klick/Quick slot for a while and at this point I'm leaning more town than scum. I find myself having to make less concessions when analyzing their play from a town perspective rather than a scum one. Like I'm not sure why Klick would want to make post 150 as scum anyhow. It wouldn't really help for town-cred since if anything it'll draw even more suspicion (questions like "why ask Atarashi/Hoctac in particular?"). Calling out them in particular seems very deliberate, and it'd be a pretty notable lapse of judgment for him to go the extent of almost pretending to be an Informed Townie himself and forget he wasn't supposed to know about the neighborhood. Otoh I think it's plausible that town!Klick would either want to give a heads up to the neighborhood or leave a crumb that he is informed (though leaving out Zulfy does hamper this theory slightly). Quick's first vote on Hoctac would make sense if he did indeed know there were scum in the neighborhood, as does his later vote on Zulfy (though I don't entirely follow the progression there), and his earlier paranoia about whether or not Klick claimed also coincides with his later reaction when Hoctac essentially forced him to claim. They could just be happy coincidences and things just happened to line up in his favor, but I'm not seeing it. I do have some issues with Quick's ISO, primarily his weird interaction with SirCakez and him ignoring basic questions about his role this past page (and as far as Klick goes, I did read a part of his scum ISO and realized he had a wider scum-range than I realized), but overall I'm not that concerned about him at the moment.

In post 750, Reundo wrote:In terms of Hoctac's case itself, I don't think he really went about it the right way (someone mentioned that he shouldn't have given scum!Quick an out by claiming Informed, which I agree with), but that would make sense considering he's a newbie. I do feel his overeagerness at having caught scum (from his POV) does ring pretty townie, and while I don't necessarily agree with his scum-tells I can definitely see where he's coming from, though I have had to re-read some of the early game thanks to him linking one of Klick's early posts and the shift in tone from his first posts to now is a bit jarring. It almost seems like he's more playful that he was at the start of the game, and I'm not entirely sure how to make of it.

In post 751, Reundo wrote:I think Persival's outburst was over the top but more likely to come from town than scum, though I'm not thrilled with Ame's lack of content atm. At first I thought he wouldn't really claim a PR if he were scum until I remembered he thought he was walking out the door anyhow, but I still feel that "fuck it" frustration is a bit more likely to come from town overall.

In post 761, Reundo wrote:
In post 414, Ragman Saul Rima wrote:
In post 407, Reundo wrote: @Ragman, what are you scum-reading Klick for other than what you mentioned when you first posted?
Too many townreads, I don't see where the confidence is coming from to give farside, sircakez a strong townread so fast. clidd went from good townread (#211) to mild scum (#355), though I believe he made no scummy posts in between. I went from neutral (#175) to scum (#211) though I didn't post in between. I'm thinking it's scum sheeping farside.
I did not like this reply to my post from Ragman from earlier before he rep'ed out. "Too many townreads" feels pretty echoey from what's already been said ITT, and he's had an SR on Klick since earlier in the game yet only comments on his most recent readlists, which hadn't been posted when I first probed him about his Klick read, so that clearly couldn't have been all there was to it if it were genuine. He didn't really have any unique takes of his own and pretty much followed along with the crowd, and while I could potentially see it coming from newb!town I feel like newb!scum has a lot more incentive to blend in with the crowd and not try to make any big waves. Looker's posts haven't improved my read on his slot, and some of his comments don't even make that much sense (IE asking SirCakez "Are Reundo, Farside22, and SirCakez all guaranteed town?" does not make sense with regards to either the Cakez post he quoted, Cakez reads, or his own reads judging by the comment he made about me at the end of that post).

@Looker what prompted the sudden switch from saying you'd vote either Hoctac or Lucky to voting Quick?

In post 762, Reundo wrote:Basically at this point my strongest town-reads are clidd, Umlaut, and valoneast, probably SirCakez as well. Lucky's absence is a bit worrying but I understand the need to break away from the game sometimes, I still think he's town too. Hoctac and farside are giving me town pings but not enough for me to TR them strongly, Quick I'm still not exactly sure how to read tbh (and looking through Looker's ISO pulled up this post from Quick which comes off kind of awkward), but they're slightly above null. Ame's also leaning town a bit but that convo with them rubbed me the wrong way. I thought this meta read on clidd was kind of towny but otherwise I don't feel great about brass's slot, and I'm finding Zulfy and Looker pretty scummy, I'll stay on Looker for now.

In post 847, Reundo wrote:
In post 821, LuckyLuciano wrote:I wouldn't say Quick has ignored questions about his role. He's been absent since the questions appeared. Also, I still don't see how town!Quick immediately gravitates towards a Hoctac vote over any other member of the hood, especially given that he hadn't read any content yet. I think you have to make far more concessions to say that Quick RNG'd his eventual scumread, and found him scummy every step of the way as town than as mafia.
Those questions were asked before he made that Looker vote, so yeah I would say they were ignored, or at least missed. I could easily see it as just an RVS vote from town!Quick initially (albeit informed since he'd know there were scum in the neighborhood so he'd be more inclined to vote in there), and as Hoctac was especially controversial early on I don't find it implausible that he'd "RNG" into his scum-read. And I'm not sure why scum!Quick would be inclined to be so stubborn about their initial vote that they felt they had to contextualize Hoctac's posts as coming from scum, he could've easily decided to just change his mind or move his vote if scum!him felt it wasn't the best course of action, so I don't find that very convincing.

Spoiler: avoiding talking about brass then
Most of the towny things I saw from Atarashi was their prodding of Hoctac, although I'm not putting a lot of stock in that rn because he's easy to criticize. Their content is OK but seems pretty fakeable by scum.

I'm pretty underwhelmed with brassherald's replace-in, there's a lot of fluff in there and what game-relevant content in there isn't very fleshed out, and it also doesn't help that their predecessor wasn't great either.

I thought this meta read on clidd was kind of towny but otherwise I don't feel great about brass's slot

That's cute, but still doesn't explain what you were scum-reading Quick for at the time, though now I'm also wondering what prompted you to move off of him and onto brass?

I hope with this new information you are able to consider better options to vote on than the Reundo slot. Please try to pay attention to the game that you are playing in.

In the sense of frequency, yes, he is coasting.