Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Battle Mage]

Do you look at every post I make with the intention of finding every possible way of disagreeing with everything? Regardless of alignment, you've made this really hard work

I don't care massively what TSE thought - given he replaced in and hadn't read the game at all, iirc? And this testimony presumably relies on Pisskop being town, which isn't guaranteed?

Bingle/Danyboy has been under pressure throughout - in a way which could indicate low-level scum, but unlikely to be a big scum power role.

It's possible I bussed, but it doesn't make any strategic sense. And also worth noting for future days, Firebringer is very familiar with my play as scum, and should know better than to be voting for me here. Although I don't know why I'm bothering to tell you this, as you won't ever listen to me anyway.

But I do maintain that, if you're scum, you've played exceptionally well in dominating the game, saving a buddy and avoiding much scrutiny.

Yeah and I don't think you've accepted being wrong a single time. Even after mislynching Xtoxm or giving scum two nightkills

I'm assuming Pisskop is town at this point, see earlier posts. Yeah TSE's reads aren't massively valuable to me. GL's are though

How does bussing not make any strategic sense???? What?

Stop putting the "if you're scum" bit at the bottom. If I'm scum you've already lost. There's no reason to talk to me if I'm scum

I did accept I was wrong about both those things (although the Xtoxm thing was because of ABR) - but I think this falls in the category of you either not reading my posts carefully because you have a personal issue with me and always want me to be wrong, or deliberately misrepping because you're scum.

GuiltyLion was a great player here - although if he did think I was scum, he was wrong about that.

I'm definitely not convinced you're town, so trying to get bragging rights off me that way isn't going to work. I'm 3 away from a lynch, with 2/3 scum not voting for me. You are incredibly active, but some people haven't posted yet. If you're scum, I expect you to be hammering here, not jumping on early.

And I mean, like, seriously dude - if you're lynching me because I was wrong about Xtoxm, and misplayed a trap, when we are 120 pages deep, I've got a cop-inno, and everything about my play has oozed town throughout, I don't know what to tell ya! But I don't think you can lynch me today on that basis, and blame me with the line "I didn't have any choice". Good town player sees bigger picture and doesn't allow scum decision-making to dictate their lynches (especially in a game with ~3 NKs a night).

[Morning Tweet]

I'm very pleasant! MorningTweet, you seem like a genuinely nice person. I don't know if you're town or scum. For me personally, your play has been immensely frustrating because it has seemed to undercut and undermine everything I've tried to do. And I do think the way you've done it has looked very anti-town at times. And I do think you single-handedly saved ABR yesterday - if you had backed his lynch, we would have got it done. It's definitely not a personal thing against you, so I'm sorry if you feel that way. As I say, if you're town, you've just made it incredibly hard work for me by fighting at every turn when we could have worked together productively. Although as I say, I'm not convinced you're town anyway. If you are town, you need to let the personal feelings towards me go, and play the game as it was intended (to try and lynch the player most likely to be scum).

We have clashing playstyles. Remember earlier in the game when you scumread me for making sorta pointless readslists that just have town on them? You said you value finding scum above all. I prefer townhunting. I'm not surprised we disagree on other things, like the mechanics of flavour solves. I am okay with us disagreeing, I don't find you to be anti-town for having vastly different opinions and reads to me. Unlike you towards me.

You know why I fight you so much? You've consistently been really high on my town list. We need to be in agreement to win, since I have always thought we're town together. ABR I also thought was town together with us. So... what would I logically do if my townreads are fighting? Yeah. I'm sorry that's just how I've read the both of you.

I can live with us being town and not being able to agree. What makes me genuinely frustrated is when you try to suggest that I'm throwing the game away for town just because I have different opinions to you. You think so highly of your solves and your reads, that those who are opposing them have to be scum or anti-town. I really do not vibe well with that mindset.

[Morning Tweet]

I did accept I was wrong about both those things (although the Xtoxm thing was because of ABR) - but I think this falls in the category of you either not reading my posts carefully because you have a personal issue with me and always want me to be wrong, or deliberately misrepping because you're scum.

GuiltyLion was a great player here - although if he did think I was scum, he was wrong about that.

I'm definitely not convinced you're town, so trying to get bragging rights off me that way isn't going to work. I'm 3 away from a lynch, with 2/3 scum not voting for me. You are incredibly active, but some people haven't posted yet. If you're scum, I expect you to be hammering here, not jumping on early.

And I mean, like, seriously dude - if you're lynching me because I was wrong about Xtoxm, and misplayed a trap, when we are 120 pages deep, I've got a cop-inno, and everything about my play has oozed town throughout, I don't know what to tell ya! But I don't think you can lynch me today on that basis, and blame me with the line "I didn't have any choice". Good town player sees bigger picture and doesn't allow scum decision-making to dictate their lynches (especially in a game with ~3 NKs a night).

Lol that first sentence... that is a trainwreck to read

Yeah he figured you bussed momo. Pretty strongly. According to PK, of course, but he also said that yesterday while he was alive I believe. It's a fair point, your case on momo was pretty reachy in hindsight

I don't really know what you mean by bragging rights. If i were scum, I'd just vote you and it'd be virtually guaranteed.

You're right that I should feel guilty about lynching you. It's basically giving up because I'm too frustrated with the game state to continue.

But if you're scum and I save you today then i'd be really upset lol. Almost so upset that I don't even really want to risk letting you live at all

[Battle Mage]

If you and me are both town, and we lose this game, I will be quite disappointed. Because with the flavour stuff, we really should have had it in the bag if we'd worked together. And I'm not JUST blaming you in that scenario - it's my responsibility too, for not being able to persuade you. But really, we made a big mistake yesterday not going with it. Look at the setup so far - 3 mislynches for a scum win? Do you really think a flavour solve which town can theoretically crack, is game-breaking? I actually think it's essential, and rewards town for engaging properly with the theme of the game.

And MT - I never managed to convince you of

anything

. I think that's also on both of us, because you never really gave me the benefit of the doubt on anything from Day 3 onwards. But if we lynch ABR and he flips Amanda Young, maybe you'll actually go on and win this game?

If you're town I'll be a bit disappointed as well. I think you had a good ability to seem town, but your arrogance is a huge turn off. You're like ABR confidence-wise, but a lot less fun to play with

Three mislynches + We played out the traps really poorly (see Hectic, pisskop traps) + We vig shot a townie. Yeah, it's a tough game. I don't think the game being tough is a good reason for the game to have a game-breaking flavour solve. Who does your flavour solve still implicate, anyway? You keep calling me part of the scumteam for some reason. I'll reread your big post if you put it in there dont worry

You convinced me of momo, to an extent. In my mind I more remember Hectic giving the case though.

Less fun to play with than ABR? ouch, that one stings! Especially given how this game went earlier

Thankfully this is effectively my last game, as all this personal stuff is just a bit much for what is meant to be a bit of fun!

On Momo, I think it was my case initially and Hectic jumped on early as he was keen not to be lynched. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you found him more persuasive than me, but I did start the move at least.

Yes I definitely don't want to lose sight of you as being potential scum (especially as I'm the only person who seems to acknowledge that is a possibility, which is quite scary....).

My flavour solve means ABR is scum, at least 1 of BBmolla and Pisskop is scum, and there is at least 1, but perhaps only 1 scum in cop-hood. Which means lynching from within the cop-hood today is kamikaze.

[Battle Mage]

I'm very pleasant! MorningTweet, you seem like a genuinely nice person. I don't know if you're town or scum. For me personally, your play has been immensely frustrating because it has seemed to undercut and undermine everything I've tried to do. And I do think the way you've done it has looked very anti-town at times. And I do think you single-handedly saved ABR yesterday - if you had backed his lynch, we would have got it done. It's definitely not a personal thing against you, so I'm sorry if you feel that way. As I say, if you're town, you've just made it incredibly hard work for me by fighting at every turn when we could have worked together productively. Although as I say, I'm not convinced you're town anyway. If you are town, you need to let the personal feelings towards me go, and play the game as it was intended (to try and lynch the player most likely to be scum).

We have clashing playstyles. Remember earlier in the game when you scumread me for making sorta pointless readslists that just have town on them? You said you value finding scum above all. I prefer townhunting. I'm not surprised we disagree on other things, like the mechanics of flavour solves. I am okay with us disagreeing, I don't find you to be anti-town for having vastly different opinions and reads to me. Unlike you towards me.

You know why I fight you so much? You've consistently been really high on my town list. We need to be in agreement to win, since I have always thought we're town together. ABR I also thought was town together with us. So... what would I logically do if my townreads are fighting? Yeah. I'm sorry that's just how I've read the both of you.

I can live with us being town and not being able to agree. What makes me genuinely frustrated is when you try to suggest that I'm throwing the game away for town just because I have different opinions to you. You think so highly of your solves and your reads, that those who are opposing them have to be scum or anti-town. I really do not vibe well with that mindset.

This game has been unusual for me, as I've been very confident on my reads - I'm not always as confident as town. I approach the game honestly, so if I'm town and I ain't got a clue, I'll just say that. It's because I believe you are smart, especially on the flavour stuff, and also that I see you are open-minded on a lot of players, the fact you are close-minded in relation to me when I'm pushing somebody like ABR, is scummy. Because I think that if you were town you would be open-minded on that as well, and would want to use your knowledge, rather than brush it under the carpet. I think your defence of ABR was really weak, and miraculously saved him yesterday. If he is scum, as I believe, we could have been in a strong position today. But it is what it is, and at the end of the game, you can see whether I was right or wrong.

[Morning Tweet]

Less fun to play with than ABR? ouch, that one stings! Especially given how this game went earlier

Thankfully this is effectively my last game, as all this personal stuff is just a bit much for what is meant to be a bit of fun!

On Momo, I think it was my case initially and Hectic jumped on early as he was keen not to be lynched. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you found him more persuasive than me, but I did start the move at least.

Yes I definitely don't want to lose sight of you as being potential scum (especially as I'm the only person who seems to acknowledge that is a possibility, which is quite scary....).

My flavour solve means ABR is scum, at least 1 of BBmolla and Pisskop is scum, and there is at least 1, but perhaps only 1 scum in cop-hood. Which means lynching from within the cop-hood today is kamikaze.

it wasn't right for Xtoxm/ABR to snap at you like they did. But now im not really surprised about it, in hindsight

Yeah it was something like that. I might have starting townreading you before it and I was convinced by it. Can't really remember now. Also I went with you on Xtoxm, cause I thought you had a convincing reason to lynch him. So there's 2 examples. Sort of.

ty for the reminder of the flavour thing, i'm gonna keep it in mind just on the off-chance it's actually right. Don't know if I can compromise on ABR yet though

[Morning Tweet]

I'm very pleasant! MorningTweet, you seem like a genuinely nice person. I don't know if you're town or scum. For me personally, your play has been immensely frustrating because it has seemed to undercut and undermine everything I've tried to do. And I do think the way you've done it has looked very anti-town at times. And I do think you single-handedly saved ABR yesterday - if you had backed his lynch, we would have got it done. It's definitely not a personal thing against you, so I'm sorry if you feel that way. As I say, if you're town, you've just made it incredibly hard work for me by fighting at every turn when we could have worked together productively. Although as I say, I'm not convinced you're town anyway. If you are town, you need to let the personal feelings towards me go, and play the game as it was intended (to try and lynch the player most likely to be scum).

We have clashing playstyles. Remember earlier in the game when you scumread me for making sorta pointless readslists that just have town on them? You said you value finding scum above all. I prefer townhunting. I'm not surprised we disagree on other things, like the mechanics of flavour solves. I am okay with us disagreeing, I don't find you to be anti-town for having vastly different opinions and reads to me. Unlike you towards me.

You know why I fight you so much? You've consistently been really high on my town list. We need to be in agreement to win, since I have always thought we're town together. ABR I also thought was town together with us. So... what would I logically do if my townreads are fighting? Yeah. I'm sorry that's just how I've read the both of you.

I can live with us being town and not being able to agree. What makes me genuinely frustrated is when you try to suggest that I'm throwing the game away for town just because I have different opinions to you. You think so highly of your solves and your reads, that those who are opposing them have to be scum or anti-town. I really do not vibe well with that mindset.

This game has been unusual for me, as I've been very confident on my reads - I'm not always as confident as town. I approach the game honestly, so if I'm town and I ain't got a clue, I'll just say that. It's because I believe you are smart, especially on the flavour stuff, and also that I see you are open-minded on a lot of players, the fact you are close-minded in relation to me when I'm pushing somebody like ABR, is scummy. Because I think that if you were town you would be open-minded on that as well, and would want to use your knowledge, rather than brush it under the carpet. I think your defence of ABR was really weak, and miraculously saved him yesterday. If he is scum, as I believe, we could have been in a strong position today. But it is what it is, and at the end of the game, you can see whether I was right or wrong.

I think your case on ABR was really weak. It's just kinda how it is. I'm now interested in checking who did join you on the ABR wagon yesterday though

You give me a lot of credit for stopping his lynch, like i singlehandedly prevented you from winning us the game basically. If my defense was so weak, why'd ABR get saved? Oh a miracle? okay then

[Morning Tweet]

Albert B. Rampage (6) - Battle Mage,

Vecna

, iDanyboy, pisskop, Gamma Emerald,

VaultDweller

(2 to lynch)
iDanyboy (4) - Morning Tweet, GeorgeBailey,

GuiltyLion

, Albert B. Rampage
Not voting (4) - davesaz, Blake Belladonna, BBmolla,

Drixx

Seems to support scum!ABR being teamed with the pool of nonvoters, {dave/Fire/BB}. Although they were so inactive I bet a lot of them didnt really comment on the wagons at all. A lot of them were in ABR's lynchpool as well i believe. I'd have to check if they actually said anything about the ABR/idany wagons. ungg

At the current moment I still am more favourable to the idea of not ABR and instead somebody else. I have a feeling you're not compromising on this though.

[Battle Mage]

Less fun to play with than ABR? ouch, that one stings! Especially given how this game went earlier

Thankfully this is effectively my last game, as all this personal stuff is just a bit much for what is meant to be a bit of fun!

On Momo, I think it was my case initially and Hectic jumped on early as he was keen not to be lynched. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you found him more persuasive than me, but I did start the move at least.

Yes I definitely don't want to lose sight of you as being potential scum (especially as I'm the only person who seems to acknowledge that is a possibility, which is quite scary....).

My flavour solve means ABR is scum, at least 1 of BBmolla and Pisskop is scum, and there is at least 1, but perhaps only 1 scum in cop-hood. Which means lynching from within the cop-hood today is kamikaze.

it wasn't right for Xtoxm/ABR to snap at you like they did. But now im not really surprised about it, in hindsight

Yeah it was something like that. I might have starting townreading you before it and I was convinced by it. Can't really remember now. Also I went with you on Xtoxm, cause I thought you had a convincing reason to lynch him. So there's 2 examples. Sort of.

ty for the reminder of the flavour thing, i'm gonna keep it in mind just on the off-chance it's actually right. Don't know if I can compromise on ABR yet though

this is the problem really - people thinking that sort of thing is ok. But it is what it is - I'm done for this one. Although, as always, people will give me loads of shit during and post-game about how bad I played or whatever, the fact is I've played a good game here, had a good reads for the most part, and pushed hard to lynch scum. If I hadn't played as well as I have, town would have been railroaded much much earlier. And despite the abusive behaviour of some, it has been a fun game as I've said, and thanks again to the Mod for that. Let's cut the crap, and make it simple:

We are lynching ABR or BM today. I've got a cop innocent on me from the conf-town VD, I'm quite obviously town, but admittedly I haven't always made optimal decisions. ABR is obviously scum who has barely even tried to hide it, if anyone would even bother to look. Make your choice.

-Adios-

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: the world with BM as town

town //
Morning Tweet I
VaultDweller - Eric Matthews
Battle Mage II
Bingle
Ircher

likely town //
Pisskop I - Xavier Chavez

in the middle //
Eddie Cain
Albert B. Rampage - Corbett Denlon

yikes //
BBmolla
Firebringer
Davesaz

I probably got some of that written down wrong. im tired

Who would you pick after ABR though. Since I don't buy into the whole flavour thing, the scumteam can still exclude ABR. Ex: BB/Fire/Dave/{Eddie,PK}. It might include him too. Kinda thinking it doesn't, at the very least there's higher odds elsewhere

Then again, if ABR flips town and THATS how we lose, at least you can't be upset with me

[Morning Tweet]

this is the problem really - people thinking that sort of thing is ok. But it is what it is - I'm done for this one. Although, as always, people will give me loads of shit during and post-game about how bad I played or whatever, the fact is I've played a good game here, had a good reads for the most part, and pushed hard to lynch scum.

the arrogance, saying that lynching town!me would be +EV for town, the quips with the after them in every single post.. it gets really tiring after a while. I don't know if you're doing it intentionally, but it at least feels like you try to piss people off on purpose. and i don't really get that

[BBmolla]

VD why ABR over BM?

[VaultDweller]

VD why ABR over BM?

See my investigation results

[Eddie Cane]

You notice how hard it's been to lynch Bingle?

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler: the world with BM as town

town //
Morning Tweet I
VaultDweller - Eric Matthews
Battle Mage II
Bingle
Ircher

likely town //
Pisskop I - Xavier Chavez

in the middle //
Eddie Cain
Albert B. Rampage - Corbett Denlon

yikes //
BBmolla
Firebringer
Davesaz

I probably got some of that written down wrong. im tired

Who would you pick after ABR though. Since I don't buy into the whole flavour thing, the scumteam can still exclude ABR. Ex: BB/Fire/Dave/{Eddie,PK}. It might include him too. Kinda thinking it doesn't, at the very least there's higher odds elsewhere

Then again, if ABR flips town and THATS how we lose, at least you can't be upset with me

I dont understand why your reads posts have tied Bingle's alignments with BM's.

[Albert B. Rampage]

UNVOTE:

[SirCakez]

ABR has requested replacement.

[SirCakez]

Titus replaces ABR!

[Titus]

Hey, I'd like to apologize for ABR's prior NAI boorish behavior. I'll do my brand of catching up shortly.

[Ircher]

Ok Ircher is definitely town. So that helps.

Good chance there is 1 scum in {Firebringer, BBMolla}

No idea why it's so damn hard to lynch ABR - his play this game has been as inconsistent and haphazard as anything I've ever seen on this site, and yet throughout he has made no attempt to hide the fact he is scum. MT saving him yesterday was a turning point in this game.

so Ircher, VD, BM = town

Pisskop has started to win me over a little bit today, so let's play it extra safe.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ABR

We may as well go out swinging at the most likely scum player. Anyone buying that ABR is some nonchalant frustrated town who is throwing the game today, after all the effort he has put in, is mad.

I feel davesaz has a higher chance of flipping scum than ABR. Thoughts on dave?

[Ircher]

Less fun to play with than ABR? ouch, that one stings! Especially given how this game went earlier

Thankfully this is effectively my last game, as all this personal stuff is just a bit much for what is meant to be a bit of fun!

On Momo, I think it was my case initially and Hectic jumped on early as he was keen not to be lynched. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you found him more persuasive than me, but I did start the move at least.

Yes I definitely don't want to lose sight of you as being potential scum (especially as I'm the only person who seems to acknowledge that is a possibility, which is quite scary....).

My flavour solve means ABR is scum, at least 1 of BBmolla and Pisskop is scum, and there is at least 1, but perhaps only 1 scum in cop-hood. Which means lynching from within the cop-hood today is kamikaze.

it wasn't right for Xtoxm/ABR to snap at you like they did. But now im not really surprised about it, in hindsight

Yeah it was something like that. I might have starting townreading you before it and I was convinced by it. Can't really remember now. Also I went with you on Xtoxm, cause I thought you had a convincing reason to lynch him. So there's 2 examples. Sort of.

ty for the reminder of the flavour thing, i'm gonna keep it in mind just on the off-chance it's actually right. Don't know if I can compromise on ABR yet though

this is the problem really - people thinking that sort of thing is ok. But it is what it is - I'm done for this one. Although, as always, people will give me loads of shit during and post-game about how bad I played or whatever, the fact is I've played a good game here, had a good reads for the most part, and pushed hard to lynch scum. If I hadn't played as well as I have, town would have been railroaded much much earlier. And despite the abusive behaviour of some, it has been a fun game as I've said, and thanks again to the Mod for that. Let's cut the crap, and make it simple:

We are lynching ABR or BM today. I've got a cop innocent on me from the conf-town VD, I'm quite obviously town, but admittedly I haven't always made optimal decisions. ABR is obviously scum who has barely even tried to hide it, if anyone would even bother to look. Make your choice.

-Adios-

I wouldn't call it a Cop inno.

It's more of a tracking inno on two consecutive nights with the caveat that you are possibly a Ninja (i.e.: Jigsaw). I'd call it maybe 3/5 a normal cop inno.

[davesaz]

I had this partially typed in my quick reply as of post 3281. Big RL interruption.

Really want to hear Bingle's result if any. A bunch of us know what he said he would do in the hood.

MT you said that extra traps would be coming, but from the mod's posts it doesn't look like that happened. Can you explain how you managed to escape a trap without having the consequences that you thought would happen?

[Ircher]

dave, what is your current solve?

[Bingle]

I had this partially typed in my quick reply as of post 3281. Big RL interruption.

Really want to hear Bingle's result if any. A bunch of us know what he said he would do in the hood.

MT you said that extra traps would be coming, but from the mod's posts it doesn't look like that happened. Can you explain how you managed to escape a trap without having the consequences that you thought would happen?

I already outed that I’m only two shot and was soft cleared by vd in a very minimal way.

[Bingle]

Hey, I'd like to apologize for ABR's prior NAI boorish behavior. I'll do my brand of catching up shortly.

When you do VCA you should know some stuff.

VD is a literal IC.
There’s a probable godfather, so cop innos aren’t 100% reliable.
Ircher has been cop innod.
Your hood contained scum that has already been lynched.
My hood had 7 people, including a flipped cop, a cop claim, the innocent child who claimed detective ish role, and a can only target scum cop.
We probably need to massclaim.
There are 4 scum alive.