Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[DkKoba]

just because I townread joqiza d2 doesnt mean my progression on him was fake. I had actual reasons for it and d1 I was too biased to look to hard into him. it happens. natural player bias towards those you like.

This is a different story than the one you told before that i called you out on

??? I have consistently said this bud.

nope. Before you said you were biased in favor of people you know, which includes me and midway

Lmao i think you missed the entirety of d1 where i pushed and prodded midway to read the game properly at the time. Also i know joqiza differently than you 2.

[DkKoba]

What a reach.

[Maduisha]

And if Votato is accusing DK of rolefishing by claiming doctor, then that's just ridiculous. Claiming a PR as scum to out a real PR when you're the last scum standing is suicide, I don't understand where he's going with that accusation but it makes no sense.

except it isnt suicide because he retracted. and now you think the whole think was a town ploy... clearly it isnt suicide.

I mean that it is suicide if it were rolefishing like you are saying, because if the real doctor appears, the scum is exposed. Even if they retract by this point, most people wouldn't be happy about outing the real doctor and they'd likely get lynched.

By this I mean that I believe DK when they said they only claimed doctor because they were certain there was not a real one that would cc and so they could fish for reactions, not rolefish.

[Maduisha]

Votato, you said I suffer from confirmation bias but I asked you what your progression was and you said it doesn't matter. It looks like deflection. I think it's not unreasonable to want to know how does one go from scumread to townread and you are only giving vague explanations. And what is IC? It better not be one of your insults again, because I'm getting tired.

IC means innocent child. it means youre confirmed town. my progression was entirely based on Dk's posts around the claim and EoD yesterday. the progression is sudden, but its natural and articulated. also, i really want you to come up with a good punishment for yourself if i flip town.

I think I am misunderstanding you, or you are misunderstanding me. I am calling your current read on me to be fake because there's no progression to call me "confirmed town", especially not when you've been scumreading me the whole game and your only instance to consider me town was under the false premise that the statistic data meant something that made you townread people, but Joqiza was there and he flipped scum.

I was not asking about your progression on DK, I know it's based on the doctor claim. I think it's a filmsy scumread, but it's valid nonetheless. It's your change from scumread to confirmed town on me which is confusing me.

And no, I will not enter your game of "how much you want to bet I flip town" you played with Midway to discourage him. Even if you were to flip town, you're acting scummy. Townies that act scummy end up lynched even if just to clear all doubts if there's not a better lynch, or isn't that what happened to Quick?

[DkKoba]

Why is this game so fking inactive now

[Apogee]

Hi all:

Back in the car now. Will do a big post or two tonight. Here is my rough order of operations.

1. Reread d3
2. ISO enomis because that is the slot I need sorted most, specifically looking at d1 interactions with joqiza.
3. Association analysis on joqiza.
4. Association analysis on votato, DkKoba and enomis
5. Find the best POE, convince others to stick to it, and force it through
6. Hopefully win

Madiusha you are the person I am both most/least concerned with me being in their POE so I’m not upset but I am going to prove you wrong.

[DkKoba]

where in the world is enomis

[Apogee]

Got a chance to do a little reread in the car. Town read on enomis. Even reading as anti-enomis as possible I have a terrible time seeing how his interactions with joqiza (and vis versa) from 1000 to 1300 are scum/scum. Explain if you think otherwise but I’m about ready to call POE votato/DkKoba and be done with it.

Still going to do a more in depth analysis this evening to a) make sure I’m not missing something on enomis/votato/DkKoba that clears one of them harder and b) to optimize chance of getting scum today.

Also since at least on the surface enomis was Easy to sort I might try to dive into some of the WIFOM moments of this game a little deeper.

[votato]

Votato, you said I suffer from confirmation bias but I asked you what your progression was and you said it doesn't matter. It looks like deflection. I think it's not unreasonable to want to know how does one go from scumread to townread and you are only giving vague explanations. And what is IC? It better not be one of your insults again, because I'm getting tired.

IC means innocent child. it means youre confirmed town. my progression was entirely based on Dk's posts around the claim and EoD yesterday. the progression is sudden, but its natural and articulated. also, i really want you to come up with a good punishment for yourself if i flip town.

I think I am misunderstanding you, or you are misunderstanding me. I am calling your current read on me to be fake because there's no progression to call me "confirmed town", especially not when you've been scumreading me the whole game and your only instance to consider me town was under the false premise that the statistic data meant something that made you townread people, but Joqiza was there and he flipped scum.

I was not asking about your progression on DK, I know it's based on the doctor claim. I think it's a filmsy scumread, but it's valid nonetheless. It's your change from scumread to confirmed town on me which is confusing me.

And no, I will not enter your game of "how much you want to bet I flip town" you played with Midway to discourage him. Even if you were to flip town, you're acting scummy. Townies that act scummy end up lynched even if just to clear all doubts if there's not a better lynch, or isn't that what happened to Quick?

the reason youre effectively clear is that you started pressuring joq very early in the day. you led that wagon. there was no reason for scum to do that, unless maybe as joq said he thought he was dead given the flip and this play would give you the win. its unlikely though. youre essentially confirmed town. does that make sense? im not the only one who sees you as IC now.

[Apogee]

Votato, you said I suffer from confirmation bias but I asked you what your progression was and you said it doesn't matter. It looks like deflection. I think it's not unreasonable to want to know how does one go from scumread to townread and you are only giving vague explanations. And what is IC? It better not be one of your insults again, because I'm getting tired.

IC means innocent child. it means youre confirmed town. my progression was entirely based on Dk's posts around the claim and EoD yesterday. the progression is sudden, but its natural and articulated. also, i really want you to come up with a good punishment for yourself if i flip town.

I think I am misunderstanding you, or you are misunderstanding me. I am calling your current read on me to be fake because there's no progression to call me "confirmed town", especially not when you've been scumreading me the whole game and your only instance to consider me town was under the false premise that the statistic data meant something that made you townread people, but Joqiza was there and he flipped scum.

I was not asking about your progression on DK, I know it's based on the doctor claim. I think it's a filmsy scumread, but it's valid nonetheless. It's your change from scumread to confirmed town on me which is confusing me.

And no, I will not enter your game of "how much you want to bet I flip town" you played with Midway to discourage him. Even if you were to flip town, you're acting scummy. Townies that act scummy end up lynched even if just to clear all doubts if there's not a better lynch, or isn't that what happened to Quick?

the reason youre effectively clear is that you started pressuring joq very early in the day. you led that wagon. there was no reason for scum to do that, unless maybe as joq said he thought he was dead given the flip and this play would give you the win. its unlikely though. youre essentially confirmed town. does that make sense? im not the only one who sees you as IC now.

To back this up even further, your interaction calling for a new wagon onto joqiza d1 also mostly clears you even if you didn’t swing at him really hard d2 (which you did ofc, so together that is pretty clear)

[votato]

i think that if we just lynch Dk and then enomis we win here. id be pretty surprised if we need the second of those two lynches though.

[votato]

And if Votato is accusing DK of rolefishing by claiming doctor, then that's just ridiculous. Claiming a PR as scum to out a real PR when you're the last scum standing is suicide, I don't understand where he's going with that accusation but it makes no sense.

except it isnt suicide because he retracted. and now you think the whole think was a town ploy... clearly it isnt suicide.

I mean that it is suicide if it were rolefishing like you are saying, because if the real doctor appears, the scum is exposed. Even if they retract by this point, most people wouldn't be happy about outing the real doctor and they'd likely get lynched.

By this I mean that I believe DK when they said they only claimed doctor because they were certain there was not a real one that would cc and so they could fish for reactions, not rolefish.

the only people who were certain that there was no doctor at that point (and even now) would be scum. either a) there is a doctor, and both scum and the doctor know that a doctor exist, or b) there is no doctor, and only scum knows since the rest of us are VTs. the fact that Dk was certain and now does not claim to be the doctor is further evidence of Dk!scum

[Apogee]

Let’s ask the whole group a question:

Is joqiza the kind of player to put his scumpair in a meme about all the possible scum pairs or not?

A close relation: is he the kind of player to joke about keeping a certain kind of talk in scumchat or not?

Do either of those moments indicate anything?

To be 100% honest, I don’t know. But I am very confident one is scum/scum interaction. Which? Why?

I’m talking about 405 and 1099 for the record.

[votato]

405

1099

its not hard

[votato]

DK: if you want to convince me that you're town, can you case both apogee and enomis and tell me which one of them is scum? (for this exercise, assume im town. you're allowed to say that maduisha is your solve, but thatll take a pretty strong case). effectively: from my PoV, who should we be lynching today and why

[DkKoba]

Let’s ask the whole group a question:

Is joqiza the kind of player to put his scumpair in a meme about all the possible scum pairs or not?

A close relation: is he the kind of player to joke about keeping a certain kind of talk in scumchat or not?

Do either of those moments indicate anything?

To be 100% honest, I don’t know. But I am very confident one is scum/scum interaction. Which? Why?

I’m talking about 405 and 1099 for the record.

No. And i hosted a game where he actually got annoyed at his partner wifoming the whole team at one point.

[DkKoba]

DK: if you want to convince me that you're town, can you case both apogee and enomis and tell me which one of them is scum? (for this exercise, assume im town. you're allowed to say that maduisha is your solve, but thatll take a pretty strong case). effectively: from my PoV, who should we be lynching today and why

Hey, im not the one whos been constantly engaging in bad faith. I have been giving you chance after chance to give me reasoning outside of me.

[DkKoba]

i want to policy lynch enomis because he's just been conveniently coasting through

[Apogee]

Can each of you give me a number representing how confident you are in the other?

P-edit: Dk, do you think the enomis-joqiza interaction day 1 could be scum theater?

[DkKoba]

And if Votato is accusing DK of rolefishing by claiming doctor, then that's just ridiculous. Claiming a PR as scum to out a real PR when you're the last scum standing is suicide, I don't understand where he's going with that accusation but it makes no sense.

except it isnt suicide because he retracted. and now you think the whole think was a town ploy... clearly it isnt suicide.

I mean that it is suicide if it were rolefishing like you are saying, because if the real doctor appears, the scum is exposed. Even if they retract by this point, most people wouldn't be happy about outing the real doctor and they'd likely get lynched.

By this I mean that I believe DK when they said they only claimed doctor because they were certain there was not a real one that would cc and so they could fish for reactions, not rolefish.

the only people who were certain that there was no doctor at that point (and even now) would be scum. either a) there is a doctor, and both scum and the doctor know that a doctor exist, or b) there is no doctor, and only scum knows since the rest of us are VTs. the fact that Dk was certain and now does not claim to be the doctor is further evidence of Dk!scum

Im sorry i have the ability to think about advanced reaction tests that i can be sure will be able to pull off due to game knowlege

[DkKoba]

hello also dont look at stronger pushes and discard them as impossible pairings bc one can read the room and realize a certain person isnt being switched to.

[Maduisha]

Madiusha you are the person I am both most/least concerned with me being in their POE so I’m not upset but I am going to prove you wrong.

Don't worry, I don't actually have a case against you because I'm pretty certain Votato is the last scum. I only mentioned you as PoE solution because DK and Enomis have towntold for me, DK more so because of the amount of effort vs Enomis' scarce content, but they were both consistent with their logic and their early 1v1 looked really spontaneous emotion. I'm aware it could have been SvT and that's why I felt genuineness but I really view it as TvT.

My worst concern about Enomis is lack of activity combined by the fact that he seems to show up only when he gets voted, which is... weird for someone that said he doesn't care anymore.

[Maduisha]

And if Votato is accusing DK of rolefishing by claiming doctor, then that's just ridiculous. Claiming a PR as scum to out a real PR when you're the last scum standing is suicide, I don't understand where he's going with that accusation but it makes no sense.

except it isnt suicide because he retracted. and now you think the whole think was a town ploy... clearly it isnt suicide.

I mean that it is suicide if it were rolefishing like you are saying, because if the real doctor appears, the scum is exposed. Even if they retract by this point, most people wouldn't be happy about outing the real doctor and they'd likely get lynched.

By this I mean that I believe DK when they said they only claimed doctor because they were certain there was not a real one that would cc and so they could fish for reactions, not rolefish.

the only people who were certain that there was no doctor at that point (and even now) would be scum. either a) there is a doctor, and both scum and the doctor know that a doctor exist, or b) there is no doctor, and only scum knows since the rest of us are VTs. the fact that Dk was certain and now does not claim to be the doctor is further evidence of Dk!scum

In my head, DK's gambit comes from town because I think they were planning to do this only if Ydrasse died, which meant a real doctor does not exist because they'd have attracted the block with that bait pre-Joqiza flip. If Ydrasse didn't die, they would have come out saying they were not the doctor at the beginning of the day and thanking the anonymous doctor for saving Ydrasse.

I think it makes sense, because if there really was a doctor, DK here saves the doctor from being blocked and saves Ydrasse from death one turn. When they gained knowledge that the doctor didn't exist, thought of a strategy to gather reactions and continued the "claim" for a bit more. Makes sense?

[DkKoba]

maduisha are you still there. also apogee. I want a live conversation if possible

[DkKoba]

just got home. I have paranoia still.