Open 79 - Nightless Vanilla (Town Win!) before 611

[Light-kun]

My current percent suspicions after reading everything in the past fifteen minutes:
Percents

Blackberry 37%
Lquiz 7%
Yellowbounder 12%
ChannelDelibird 0%?
farside22 21%
populartajo 23%
Aegor 31%
Lowell 27%
IH 0%?
Killa seven 7%
Light-kun 0%

Okay, assuming that each person is townie, I am currently assuming the percent of apparent guilt I see. (I couldn't recall Channel or IH's posts when writing this, so I will do them later.)

Based on the current standings, and the fact that your post, Aegor, did not appear to be anything like a joke, I am currently voting you. Now, I do like the reaction risk gamble to be fairly strong, but I would hardly risk one so early and without having a better reason than those given for doing so. I am honestly thinking that if Aegor is not scum, however, that Lowell is. Based on his semi lurkiness and the lack of any real attempt at providing conversation, I think that his might be a rather basic tactic at staying out of the limelight. Aegor would have been about 43% is he had attempted to play off the accusation, but by addressing it, he loses about 12% in suspicion for the moment. I really just want a response here.

Blackberry seems very suspicious, but this is probably more intuition than actual evidence speaking. I do believe he is scum, but that will wait to be seen. I am not voting him today, so:

Unvote

. I will, however, look more closely at Blackberry later.

People I do not suspect, just for your information:

Killa seven may be a strong scum player, but I don't know. In any case, he seems fairly pro town. He is not, obviously, a 100% cleared, but he is the most cleared out of all of you.

-----
For now, I am going to place my vote on Aegor for a rather bold move. In my eyes, it was a bad move whether Aegor is mafia or town. (Worse if mafia, obviously.)

Vote Aegor

[Light-kun]

Vote Aegor

*

[Light-kun]

Thanks for the response.

It is, of course, all I wanted.

However, my statement says:

"In my eyes, it was a bad move whether Aegor is mafia or town. (Worse if mafia, obviously.)"

I am actually saying that it is a fatal move if you are mafia, as it will always be there fore reference. If you are town, then you have struck up a good deal of information over these past five pages. I said it was bad if you were a townie just to get your response to it.

If you must know, your actual suspicion throughout my reading has been less than 8%, but because it was over 5% when I got to my posting point, I decided to take the opportunity and test you.

Based on the reading, I am actually thinking that Lowell is guilty, due to his unexplained vote on Popular, and his overall lurky post, make me think he is scum.

Unvote

Vote Lowell

[Light-kun]

Yes, they are. I typed that, and deleted it because the paragraph I typed for it sucked, so I never put it back in.

My bad! However, some of them are correct, just not all of them.

Votecount:
Aegor - 2 (Blackberry, Lowell)
Lquiz - 2 (IH, ChannelDelibird)
IH - 1 (populartajo)
farside22 - 1 (Aegor)
yellowbounder - 1 (farside22)
Lowell - 1 (Light-kun)
Not voting: killa seven, Lquiz, yellowbounder

6 to lynch, 3 to lynch at deadline.

[Light-kun]

No, I will not explain. And it was all mostly to get a response out of Aegor and Black Berry, who did not respond, perhaps because he didn't perceive it as a threat. The importance of my post depended on who responded and how. Aegor's response does not indicate scum to me, but this is not full proof. Based on the lack of statements and the absolute waste of post, I believe that Lowell is active lurking, which is a common scum tactic.

My other choices for scum is Black Berry, but I am holding this opinion in reserve. He just happens to be the second highest on my list. He is not, however, very high.

Third is still Aegor as I feel the overall idea is pretty stupid. However, it is almost equally absurd to thank that someone with his experience would make such a foolish move. And yet, the thought that he is testing reactions based on the assumption that a novice mafia would attack him and give him a thrashing with a bullshit argument is almost as absurd in my mind. Perhaps it is just his style of play. I wouldn't know as I am not metagaming at this point.

Those are my top three. After that, it becomes a toss up for next scummy as no one else has done anything that, as of now, appears to be a significant scum tell.

Lowell's scum tell - Active Lurkiness

Black Berry's - None, but I just have a sheer intuition that he is scum. I dunno, maybe I just want to be right? Or maybe I need a scapegoat target to seem like I am purposefully off track? Or am I just typing all this to confuse Black Berry if he is mafia? I dunno, but I like my line of thinking her. Yay for semi Wifoming?

Aegor's - Listed above, but suppressed by his response to my test.

All other's - I wanted to see what someone thought of my percentages. Based on who, what they said, and the percent I gave them, I should be able to draw conclusions in the future.

As for my percentage's- It doesn't matter which ones are my real suspicions and which one's are not. In fact, all that should concern you is how people reacted, before I explained, to what I described as my real percentages in that post. I think that should be a useful box of minor detail information.

[Light-kun]

Is it still not obvious?

*Sigh*

I will fully explain my percents:

Blackberry 37% (Highly suspect, but not based on anything. This is a reference to “BB,” and kind of a point thrown at the mod who should get the reference. This percent was a lie, and should be indicated as such by the fact I did not vote him.)
Lquiz 7% (Truth.)
Yellowbounder 12% (Truth.)
ChannelDelibird 0%? (Truth.)
farside22 21% (Lie. I do not suspect her almost at all, at the moment. Just the mod of another game I am in, hence, toying with her to see how he would react to being moderately high.)
populartajo 23% (Real, more or less.)
Aegor 31% (Truth. I suspected him this much at time of post.)
Lowell 27% (Truth.)
IH 0%? (Haven’t seen him/her much, so I don’t know.)
Killa seven 7% (Truth.)
Light-kun 0% (Truth.)


None of my opinions have changed. The remark of pushing off my reason as a joke increases my suspicions of Lowell.

(though, it is funny:)

"AL and Lowell" rhymes.

[Light-kun]

Light, why have my percentages changed three times in the three posts that you have mentioned percentages? I'm a pretty understanding person, but you're kind of pushing it with the "OMG, he's scum. Actually, jk, it was just to see his reaction. JK! I actually suspect him MORE after I claimed that his reasoning made sense. Well, now I'm saying it doesn't."

Also, I'm surprised that you outright lied to "test for reactions" yet do not understand why I would have done the same with something far more harmless. Hmmm...

FoS: Light

Aegor (or his replacement), I didn't realize your percents changed so much. In fact, I can't get a real read on you, but I do think that you are more scum than not. I do not care if you vote me over my percents, but it doesn't seem to be a valid reasonaside from the moronic strategy of lynch all liars.

Which, by the way, brings me to my current thought:
Sun Tzu thought he was scummy without realizing it was him. And if his second post meant to play it off, he failed in my opinion. He decided to vote me based on the fact that I lied on what appeared to be the most important percents, and that makes me think he is scummy.

Yet, based on his final reaction against Sun Tzu, I think that Aegor is the most scummy player at the moment. So:

Vote: Aegor

Fixed a tag.

[Light-kun]

He said, "Just caught up."

So, I assume so, but didn't read who he replaced. He may honestly think Lquiz is scummy, and didn't realize he replaced him.

*shrugs*

[Light-kun]

@Gimbo
Woah, woah. Hold your horses there. I haven't posted for two pages, and I was about to hammer Sun. *Sorry, I have been a little busy, but I will definitely be more consistent now on.

Now Gimbo, with your predecessor, you appeared scummy. If I am not mistaken, I voted him (aegor) and not you. I simply never changed in this long time period. Mostly because no one seemed very suspicious, but whatever works. Now then, on to the game at hand:

While I sincerely suspect Lowell (And not due to your post), I am having some second thoughts by his hammer. On the other hand, he could have seen it as detrimental to his team if he were to defend Sun, and thus bussing serves to make him look innocent and avoid future suspicion for defending painfully obvious scum. * *I am not going any further on this. I am mentioning this as a possibility for reference, cause as game goes on, we tend to forget our thoughts. And it is hard to block out what had occurred after the thought was for formed in order to retrieve it logically.*

Based on there play, and I assume that none bussed their team so early, Farside Faerire seem very protown, especially since they had decent (not total crap) logic for voting Sun. Gimbo can fit in here, but he was a tad later. I also feel like YB was kind of bandwagoning. It is possible that YB bandwagoned because a partner did, and he realized that if he should have Sun killed as a useless partner. This however, is only to be mentioned, and is just a possibility. However, the purpose of this mention is that YB is still kind of suspicious to me, and that this would make sense to be YB's thoughts on the matter.

Mayhem and Tajo are both more townie than in my mind. Now, I would have to go back and check (but I am tired right now, so I won't) but I am pretty sure one of these guys voted me based on my percents not making any sense. And well, that is logical. So, I think one of these guys are pretty pro town, maybe both. I need to double check what both of them said though.

Light-kun - The only thing I can write is that I am town. *shrugs* I will leave the judgment of myself up to you guys until I am forced to respond.

Sun Tzu -dead, painfully obvious scum.

Lowell - He seemed scummy at some point of day 1, and I am going to have to back and look that up. I will do so when I get a chance to do Tajo and M4y.

killa seven - Seems pretty pro town, but he always seems pretty pro town... hm....
*"I wonder, I wonder." I will just have to see how he acts on day 2 to get any kind of read.

*Yes, my first post of a new day tends to be big. More later&

[Light-kun]

One thing Im noticing is that he really was angry about his lynch, like really angry and frustrated. Would it be possible that some scumpartners were in his wagon taking in count he was probably the lynch of the day?

Just pointing this out if it makes any difference, I said this earlier in post 244, suggesting Lowell as a suspect of this (granted, he is not the only one possible):

While I sincerely suspect Lowell (And not due to your post), I am having some second thoughts by his hammer. On the other hand, he could have seen it as detrimental to his team if he were to defend Sun, and thus bussing serves to make him look innocent and avoid future suspicion for defending painfully obvious scum. * *I am not going any further on this. I am mentioning this as a possibility for reference, cause as game goes on, we tend to forget our thoughts. And it is hard to block out what had occurred after the thought was for formed in order to retrieve it logically.*

I did not think of the anger being a reason for this, but I have to agree that it makes sense.

Um, I think the FL lynch if moving like a wagon since FL hasn't defended himself yet. But, based on that post, I do recall FL simply ignoring all conversation of Sun's innocence, while insisting his happiness on his vote of Sun. So:
FoS on FL.

FoS on Lowell for not attempting to defend yourself at all.
*Shrugs.*

Still, bigger finder on FL, at the moment.

FL makes me think of FLCL, which makes me laugh.

more later.

[Light-kun]

\Considering the fact that I spent my first post of the day explaining almost everything people have pointed out since then, I seem pretty pro town to me . . . But, this is obvious to me and not one else.
*shrugs*

“Early %'s looked bogus and confusing,” -They are.
“Poor reasoning why you didn’t vote Blackberry when he was top % is baffling, they were still pretty bogus.” -FAKE PERCENTS FTW!
“and somhwat scummy.” Oh, and the only thing that would make me mafia is something you cane explain. OOOO, that is a great argument. *Please note sarcasm.*

BB’s percent:
Death Note: The LABB murder cases ************SPOILER TO IT******************

Beyond Birthday is the bad guy, and I have forced the mod to read and like Death Note. So, my percents on BB (and the unsupported suspicions at that point), were a joke to the mod. That is why he was at some absurd high percent without my vote. I replaced in much too late to enjoy the arbitrary voting phase, so I had fun in my post.

***********************END OF SPOILER, OMG, YOU CHEATED AND READ THIS!**




Anyway, I don’t see anything in your statement that warrants a vote on me Chelsea Fan, but you are free to try again.

*Acknowledges Farside post, but it is irrelevant to mine.

[Light-kun]

@Gimbo
Woah, woah. Hold your horses there. I haven't posted for two pages, and I was about to hammer Sun. *Sorry, I have been a little busy, but I will definitely be more consistent now on.

Now Gimbo, with your predecessor, you appeared scummy. If I am not mistaken, I voted him (aegor) and not you. I simply never changed in this long time period. Mostly because no one seemed very suspicious, but whatever works. Now then, on to the game at hand:

While I sincerely suspect Lowell (And not due to your post), I am having some second thoughts by his hammer. On the other hand, he could have seen it as detrimental to his team if he were to defend Sun, and thus bussing serves to make him look innocent and avoid future suspicion for defending painfully obvious scum. * *I am not going any further on this. I am mentioning this as a possibility for reference, cause as game goes on, we tend to forget our thoughts. And it is hard to block out what had occurred after the thought was for formed in order to retrieve it logically.*

Based on there play, and I assume that none bussed their team so early, Farside Faerire seem very protown, especially since they had decent (not total crap) logic for voting Sun. Gimbo can fit in here, but he was a tad later. I also feel like YB was kind of bandwagoning. It is possible that YB bandwagoned because a partner did, and he realized that if he should have Sun killed as a useless partner. This however, is only to be mentioned, and is just a possibility. However, the purpose of this mention is that YB is still kind of suspicious to me, and that this would make sense to be YB's thoughts on the matter.

Mayhem and Tajo are both more townie than in my mind. Now, I would have to go back and check (but I am tired right now, so I won't) but I am pretty sure one of these guys voted me based on my percents not making any sense. And well, that is logical. So, I think one of these guys are pretty pro town, maybe both. I need to double check what both of them said though.

Light-kun - The only thing I can write is that I am town. *shrugs* I will leave the judgment of myself up to you guys until I am forced to respond.

Sun Tzu -dead, painfully obvious scum.

Lowell - He seemed scummy at some point of day 1, and I am going to have to back and look that up. I will do so when I get a chance to do Tajo and M4y.

killa seven - Seems pretty pro town, but he always seems pretty pro town... hm....
*"I wonder, I wonder." I will just have to see how he acts on day 2 to get any kind of read.

*Yes, my first post of a new day tends to be big. More later&

I suspected Lowell too, in one of the first post of today. Read “@Gimbo”



Lowell you liar!

i think he just hammered himself.

Followed directly by:

If not,

unvote, vote sun tzu

. This recent behavior sounds much more like scum.

I defended him for the reasons I mentioned above. I thought his actions were that of a careless townie.

I later changed my mind because his attitude changed. He went from what I would call "bemused" at the attention to completely lashing out against everyone. When he voted for himself AGAIN, that was the last straw.

I didn't know my vote was after the hammer. Who cares?

FL is the play for today for farside's earlier reasons.

I believe lynch all liars is fairly stupid, but in this case, your lie appears to be intended to make you seem less scummy. Also, using someone else’s reasoning as an out seems slightly scummy. I will wait for a response.

FairieLord doesn’t seem like the play today. FL seems more town than scum, at the moment.

Farside, I don’t need a prod, you silly, silly person. I said something at the end of page 10. I just post like, once every day. *Sometimes, every two days, I admit.*

I am going ahead and voting Lowell since I don’t think he has more than a vote on him.

Vote Lowell

Mod: Vote count, please?

[Light-kun]

farside, I can see your point on FL, but I am not seeing anything too major. Mostly stubborn townie is what I see, but I can see the big possibility that at least one scum was bussing a partner, whose play just screamed frustrated scum.

*Shrugs*

I still think Lowell is just acting a little off in his recent post. I will wait for his response/move.

[Light-kun]

I don't really like Metagaming people. If their play seems scummy, they are probably scum. However, if this is true, why didn't Lowell bring it to his own defense?

Care to post a link to 533?


@Lowell:
Care to tell us which of Farside's post about FairieLord?

[Light-kun]

@Lowell: That particular metagaming is going to supposedly saving you.
Although, I really don't think metagaming is the best strategy ever.

@Farside: Okay, I noted that, but didn't FL say nothing but how happy he is with his vote throughout the whole incident? *Just pointing that out.* Your argument still applies, but it looks a little less like scum bussing and a little like Sun is trying to take down a villager with him... Hmm... well, we do have an extra life, so if worse comes to worse, I can see logic behind a FL lynch, though I am still wondering about Lowell...

[Light-kun]

Rereading and to be honest, Im still not seeing what Farside is seeing. For the moment I dont support a FL lynch.
Light, whats the logic behind a FL lynch in a worse comes to worse?
Lowell suggesting that we lynch Fl instead of him seems a desesperate maneuver. Why do you think FL is 100% scum?

Popular, I am saying that if worse comes to worse, town should probably agree on voting whoever the best case is against. Obviously, I think Lowell is a better lynch, but with the timing, FL didn't seem like a really bad of a choice. Although, Lowell is my preference, I can see the FL lynch logic too.

[Light-kun]

Not tunnel vision. But how long can we reason and post before we see circle logic in every players judgmment. With confirmed alignments, we are able to more easily analyze the days discussion. In any case, Lowell, are you going to proposse your own thoughts, or simply continue agreeing with the thoughts of others?

You are at L-2, afterall...

@work...

[Light-kun]

If I agreed with the thoughts of others I wouldn't be in this mess.

The entirety of the case on me comes down to:

1)

I hammered/didn't hammer/meant to hammer/should have hammered.

I've commented on this already. I wasn't sold on his scumness (only his newbishness), but "giving up" posts are to me a sign of scumness. Sun Tzu tried to hammer himself, so I followed with an extra swing just in case someone else's vote didn't count/was illegal/etc.

2)

I agree with farside

. She's right on this. The line to FL about him being "busted, IMO" makes no sense whatsoever UNLESS he's talking to a fellow scum, angry that he was bussed on D1. Try to make that sentence make sense with Sun as scum and FL as town..... I dare you.

3)

Light-kun can't be bothered to think

. Not my problem. I've been clear about why FL deserves to die, and why we deserve for you think harder than just jumping on the nearest bandwagon.

1: No, you defended sun, and then hammered/extra hammered(?). So, yeah, fall through.

2: Farside is currently voting you. I see the logic of a FL lynch. I really do, but you have seemed kind of scummy. Plus, FL has been very pro town, and I can see lynching him after analyzing the early days again with more public knowledge. (ie, dead confirmed townie/mafia.) Yes, in light that Sun is mafia, FL can seem suspicious. But, I would have been more suspicious if Sun was town. Mostly because of all the happy on my vote comments by FL. So, I am going to have to wait and see his play and how players flip before I can really figure out what side he's on. (And please don't use some lame argument like: vote him now and find out.)

3: I think plenty, thank you. And why are you not questioning farside who thought up the attack on FL, that you are using, but who is now voting you...? Why criticize me alone? In any case, care to elaborate more on how FL has seemed scummy or anti town, because if you have some insight, I would love to hear about it. [/serious]

Gimbo, stop wasting our time and contribute to the conversation, even a little bit.

[Light-kun]

...what...?

[Light-kun]

Should I just vote Aegor to revert back to day 1's line of thinking...
^_^
Okay, I don't think Aegor even deserved that FoS Pop, because he just wants to rejoin this game. And, I don't blame him. This game is a very interesting set up in its theory, and the mod is pretty awesome. (Trust me, I know him.)

Anyway, FoS at Pop for FoS Aegor who was earlier voted by me.*Yes, none of this is bolded as it is all nonsense.

Now, back on target:

Lowell, how does the Gimbo vs Aegor banter make that role scum, because there must have been a confession that I missed or something...

[Light-kun]

Doesn't matter.

I know the mod in real life, and he said:

Without telling you the role in question (for security reasons, I guess), would you replace into a game?

I was like, YEAH!

And he was like, okay, well I might need you. And later, I replaced Pie.

My point: That doesn't really make the role scum or not. And with one scum down, I would be less inclined to join as scum right now. Especially since Aegor is the one who seemed more suspicious by town...

I don't know really. But when he dies/the game ends (Whichever happens first), we will find out on this isolated case, yes?

[Light-kun]

And with one scum down,

I would be less inclined to join as scum right now.

Especially since Aegor is the one who seemed more suspicious by town...

Without telling you the role in question

(for security reasons, I guess), would you replace into a game?

These two bolded sentences don't fit that well...

Well, it might be because you reversed their order.

The first is talking of Aegor's current situation.

The second is talking about 2 weeks before I joined this game. The mod wanted me to replace in earlier, but was like, "Oh wait, I have people higher on my list of replacements than you." I was like "Okay," and he wouldn't tell me the role, obviously because he did not know if it would be *that* role, for which, I would be subbing into. So, how do the two not fit...?

Fixed a tag.

[Light-kun]

Bleh, I also don't like FL's post saying we should lynch Chelsea, when the only reasoning I've seen so far has her linked with Lowell.

No. I said why I found Chelsea scummy (see my posts about yellowbounder)

@Light. You first said that you knew no role, then you said you would less likely join as scum. But you would have no choice to join as scum or town.

Well duh, but OBVIOUSLY I didn't know my role. But Aegor would *have* to know Gimbo's role, because Gimbo got Aegor's role. Are you just not paying attention to what I have been saying.

And, I am at work right now, but the post by replacement

Persons who are replacing-WELCOME!!

@Lowell-very interesting.... I am going to have post a response tonight/tomorrow, when I am not at work and have time to do a readover of the points brought up on your two "Anti-town" players.

Fixed a tag.

[Light-kun]

Town-
Not really anyone so far

Townish neutral-
Farside

Neutral-
Chelsea's replacement?(name isn't in first post, which is what I'm using so I don't forget anyone
Dybeck
FL
Killa seven

limbo between the two depending on info-
Syzygy

scummish neutral-
Pop

Scummish-
Light





Lowell

I am the second most scummy person to you?

Whatever... And just to bother sekinj:
Percents return! (100% indicates townieness)

100% Light-kun

90%

80%
Farside
70%

60%
Dybek, FairieLord
50% Sekinj
Syzygy
40% Killaseven

30% IH, Tajo

20% Lowell

10%

0%

[Light-kun]

@Sekinj: I was refering to the percents bothering you, but I really don't know what you are, so you are at the 50 mark, obviously.

@FL: I don't care for Lowell being in your town list, at all. Your scummy lst is also a tad off for my taste. And that might be, cause I don't recall a Yellowbounder... XDDD
Lowell, I can loosely see as being "???" but not really pro-town. And with all the accusations he has made against you, the only way you can conclude he is town is if you are scum...

Hm...

[b]Unvote, Vote:Fairie Lord[/b]

We'll see were this goes.

[Light-kun]

I am at work and reading, but to quick comment:

not that it is necessarily true, but what you just did, with Tajo and Poro, is similar to distancing.

BBL: (about 7 hours)

Votecount:
Lowell - 5 (killa seven, farside22, Light-kun, IH, dybeck)
FaerieLord - 2 (Lowell, Syzygy)
sekinj - 1 (FaerieLord)
Not voting: populartajo, sekinj
6 to lynch.

[Light-kun]

Okay, Sekinj, that was at you

Anyway, Sekinj, pick one and explain why they seem scummy. Quite frankly, I would prefer you to pick Popular and explain your thoughts on why he is scummy. (There is so much on Lowell already, and I want a case from you, so why not Pop?)


@IH: What are you talking about...? Are you referring to the whole defending him, extra hammer thing again? Because, it sounds like you found something we haven't discussed... or you are just reminding us of Lowell and his scuminess.

[Light-kun]

No, we have to figure out who is scummier, Lowell or Pop.

However, I am very suspicious of that post by Pop, thanks for pointing it out Farside. I loosely remembered what people said, but I don't like his "coaching." (At least it appears that way.)

@Dybek: Why do you think we'll get more info out of a Lowell lynch? *Granted, I kind of want him over Pop, but what is your thought process here?

[Light-kun]

No, for FL, Lowell's lynch is mostly a null tell, based on lowell's attitude toward FL.

IF Lowell flips town, I will be gun ho for a pop lynch, and maybe a FL later on... hmm...
thoughts?

[Light-kun]

Now this is a post that makes me uncomfortable because it makes too much sense.

XDDD

No seriously, that is a great post. To be honest, I don't have a major opinion on Pop. I can support his lynch based on his play, and I see him as more scum than town. (I'd have to check my earlier list to put it. But, honestly, I *think* he was closer to 0 than not.)

Hm, I am still wondering...
Lowell, if you *COULD* vote someone after your lynch today, would you be more inclined to lynch FL if you flipped town or scum?

[Light-kun]

EBWOP:
No, this isn't a loaded question, because I just realized it might be written that way a bit.

[Light-kun]

^ Well, could you push one of these cases?

[Light-kun]

I am going to wait on cases, but I am still feeling a Lowell lynch. I would like to lynch the apparent scumbag that is Pop.


Note: LURKERS BE DAMNED!!

[Light-kun]

Hm... Dybek, I have to seriously agree. And I can't believe Pop is asking for a replacement, holy crap....

And to be honest, his case isn't made entirely of crap, so I am going to vote pop over Lowell today. Doesn't mean I have stopped suspecting him, but I personally love this case against Pop, and his reaction makes me feel we found scum...

Anyone have evidence as to his innocence?

*Staying on Lowell for the moment, because I am still happy with his lynch, but I can support either for today and tomorrow, as Lowell looks scummy, and Pop has apparently done...nothing.*

So, the questions we need to ask are: Who do we lynch first/who is less scummy between lowell and pop AND/OR
Does anyone else deserve to go under the microscope today before we vote one of them?

[Light-kun]

Okay then, who is a better choice to lynch?

*assumes enough time has passed, and no one has a other ideas.*

Lowell or Pop?

I slightly prefer Lowell, but Lowell doesn't seem as scummy as Pop right now. So, who should we go after?

[Light-kun]

Yeah, but if scum was about to be lynched, why ask for a replacement?

In any case... is that lynch, or does he need another vote?

[Light-kun]

Okay, well, i think my vote is on Lowell, so:

Unvote, Vote: Populartajo

[Light-kun]

After that well made attack on Lowell, I am fairly certain that in a nightless game, we could just lynch one then the other. *really, assuming Pop is scum.*

Not to mention with the whole lives theory, we might be able to use Lowell and Farside's reasoning with scum-FL, especially if Lowell flips town.

Still...
I am just waiting for other comments. Both seem pretty damned to me, but the real question is who to lynch first. So, I can agree that Lowell gives more information. I switched because there seemed to be a better case on Pop, and Lowell could wait. But, with this case, I am just like, "F@ck it, there both scummy as hell, who do we lynch first?"

The obvious answer to that question is, who will provide more information due to their alignment.

So, who's up for the chopping block?

[Light-kun]

And that argument won't work tomorrow?

Personally, I see what you are saying, but since the Lowell and Pop cases do not directly affect each other, then it doesn't appear to really matter who we lynch first, assuming we lynch both.

[Light-kun]

Speaking of limited access, seems the mod is busy lately...
There isn't even an updated vote count for today.

So, we are going with Lowell now...?

[Light-kun]

I say Tajo simply to save the mod time when he returns... But, I really understand that whatever is best for the town should be our target. Hm... I am not really quite to say which is better, when in my opinion, wasting two lives on lynching Lowell and Tajo is bad in any respect. It would give us a ton of information combined, and sense Tajo and lowell are not apparently lynched, I am wondering if it ultimately matters. On the other hand, lynching Lowell first might give clues that would make someone else seem scummier than Tajo, so he is a logical first choice. Gah, I really dunno what to make of this...

Killa, I want more out of you. Sekinj really stepped up to the plate with amazing analysis, btw. Doesn't completely clear you by any means (as without a cop, that is impossible.) Still, good play.

Farside is still helpful and so is FL. And, if you are not mentioned, you are probably just not sticking out in my mind for being very active/townie or too lurky. (STARES AT KILLA FOR LURKINESS.)

Anyway, back to the main point here:

I can see a slightly better point to assume the Lowell lynch gives us more information.

Unvote, Vote Lowell

[Light-kun]

Um, cool....?
Back to the now conversation:


EBWOP: (my last post, duh)

" . . . wasting two lives on lynching Lowell and Tajo is bad in any respect."
should be "isn't bad."

Sorry for the confusion/error.

[Light-kun]

Aweh, I feel special. I got mentioned in a post.


*Big breath*
Woop-d-doo...

Okay, I am still thinking of the Lowell/Tajo day after day lynch. Hm, I am not really changed on the whole FL incident, but I'll just wait and see. Until then,

Vote Battle Mage Sadly for Tajo's play, and not his own.

*However* I am not bolding my vote for a reason. I am mostly curious to see what, if anything, BM will say. So, I will check in tomorrow to put in a real vote.

[Light-kun]

Why did you vote for Lowell. Last I checked your post you were still reading. It wasn't a hammer. It was an unncessary vote. Just wondering why you did it?

Ehhh, I had some very small scumvibes from Lowell, and he was getting close to lynch, so I just said "ah, the heck with it" and voted him. Good as any other lynch I could think of.

"Very small scum vibes" is a very poor reason to vote someone on Page 20, whether it is lynch or not.

FoS Mike

[Light-kun]

Why do people keep combining the r and n in my name into an m? Mike-bum-fire makes it sound like I gots hemorrhoids or something. Anyway, reread soon.

lol

WOW SEKINJ! THIS WAS SO HELPFUL!

AND LOOK AT THAT QUOTE!

Mikey-boy, I am so utterly impressed that you *JUST READ* the entire 20-21 pages, BUT YOU ARE DOING A REREAD! I can just SEE how helpful the two of you are being...

*looks around*

OMG, Killaseven! No post again!? I bet you have this all figured out already. I just can't WAIT to see your-non-existent post with all the answers.


**********

Okay, I vote one of the above to be lynched, whether or not we lynch Tajo today or not, all three of these people need to be looked at very closely. (Cept maybe sekinj, I just had a problem with his encouragement of burn's stupidity.)

And did BM even show up yet?

Fixed a tag.

[Light-kun]

Mod, delete above post

Done.

well, I'm not sure what else to add...

I'd like to see if others are still suspicous of tajo/BM... maybe in the form of a vote?

I have already placed my vote, who else are we waiting for? Before we lynched Lowell he was he person that people seemed to want to see dead the most, (besides Lowell).

I say we lynch BM and then Light as he annoys me for some reason.

Annoying=/=scummy.

Why BM?

Also, I think I waited on voting BM because I was waiting on a post, but his absence indicates to me that he has already given up...? (I really don't know, and this is a complete guess.)

Vote: Battle Mage

FoS Killa

Your whole lurking thing is really starting to piss me off. (The action seems to be your playing style, but I still don't like it. It is just inherently anti-town, in my opinion.)

[Light-kun]

Yay, gimmicks are fun!

*Ahem*

Sekinj: My post style is fairly unpredictable. Enjoy. *HOWEVER*
Post 504=very annoyed Light-kun. However, Sekinj, I am very slightly surprised from you. I expected you to actually realize that your style of play has been fine, but I was mostly pointing out Mikey-boy. Plus, is it really that shocking after the percents?

@FL: "Why BM" is directed at Azrael, who hasn't stated any stance on people, as far as I have read.

I am *NOT* a huge fan of people who replace in and suddenly act like really shady characters. I personally want a comment from replacements that lets the town know where there opinions are. Some fresh talk could really do the town some good after all the thick mess of yesterday. *Granted, we learned a bit, in my opinion, still it was just thick. (For lack of a better word.)

So, I propose that everyone who just came in tells us who they think is scummiest. (And if they say BM/tajo, I want their next pick too.)

[Light-kun]

Azrael, provide something of real substance on your suspicion of me. Secondly, BM SHOW UP IF YOU ARE READING!

Finally: Who would be more likely to give up/not show up in BM's situation: Town or scum. Note, if you know BM well enough that this question is irrelevant as he would give up either way, please note it. I am just trying to encourage people to think on the one issue we need to decide for today before with move onto other thoughts and let a silent person go by unnoticed.

Back @Azrael: Not that it is impossible, but seriously: Issues with me, bring them up.

[Light-kun]

Azrael, helped lynch scum. However, I just find his posts scummy. He doesn't take many stands unless town has started swaying in that direction already.

Also, his case on me is rather weak, but what interest me most is the phrase "defensive play." Hm...
just a note.

Killa seems lurky enough to be mafia. I just don't understand the whole too busy to participate in a game idea...

Additionally, his absences have been convenient, usually ending directly after the lynch of scum, meaning he has probably read along but not commented. I just don't like lurkers.

Additionally, his reply to farside's question is absolute crap. Sun, as a scum to vote himself, would probably avoid voting another scum partner. Plus, you could use the same argument against FairieLord, but I wonder, I wonder. Does that make either FL or I guilty or Killa? Or, worst of all, none of us. Hm, thoughts?

[Light-kun]

@ ligh kun. i didnt just show back up because a scum was lynched i was prodded. lol
anyways after you guys pick me off a townie for lurking, id suggest looking into light kun.

So you admit that you are lurking? Why in the world don't you participate. While lurking is usually just anti-town, the amount with which you have lurked is very scummy in my opinion.

@Azrael: When you replace in, NORMALLY, you reread. So, certainly you have a stance of some sort on people aside from recent events. By now, I would expect something more than vibes of scumminess. I would expect one of Sekinj's cases. (BTW: Sekinj is not on my town list, but he is far from being near my scum list.)

Anyway, you are correct. I attack *everyone.* I don't assume anyone is town or not. There are only two people I think are town, but if they do something I consider to be ridiculous, I will attack them too. So, I really don't really have anything more to say.

I am going to pursue:

Vote Killaseven

The above thoughts on Sekinj prevent me from holding off my vote.

[Light-kun]

Plus, and I may have miscounted, doesn't that put him at L-1?

[Light-kun]

EBWOP:
It should be L-2

[Light-kun]

No, not hammer, should now be at L-1. Maybe Killa seven will actually show up before the lynch this time.

[Light-kun]

SEKINJ, THIS IS GOD...

not really. I am not sure of all the details, but I *know* we will be updated by/on Thursday. The mod was like, "Hey, I have really limited internet access."
And I was like, okay, whatever, they can wait...."

Which really, we can't.... but, um... yeah, he has some excuse... not the best one ever, but some.

[Light-kun]

While sekinj gives me the general attitude of a townie, your logic has a lot of merit to it farside, so I am currently unable (as I often am) to wipe anyone in particular off my mid-section list for long.

So...
Hm:

Townie:
Farside... (yay, the only person to never leave my townie list... mostly because you were a mod in a game I played in... yay! And if you are mafia, GREAT play. Seriously, never had even rough suspicions of you.)

Mid:

Everyone else. Basically, I don't cross poeple off as town or scum, almost ever. (Farside is very minutely townie to me.) And no one screams mafia, however, I do like the post by farside, as it holds some sense to it.

*Tempted to OMGUS vote Az, because I can.*

Anyway, I am going to look at a few people here and there, see what I can find....

[Light-kun]

Azrael... you are starting to hit my scum list....
Nothing further, for the moment.

[Light-kun]

Yay for deadlines...
I think we need like... a universal prod... maybe everyone thought Killa seven was mafia and decided to not come to work today...?

*laughs hollowly*

[Light-kun]

Well, I think we should wagon Dybek. (Or rather, his replacement) because he seems to be on the general badnik list of everyone.

So:

Vote Dybek

(He actually isn't on my scum list, per se, but I can see him as more likely scum at the moment. And through no fault of his own, the fairy could be seen as scummy just like Sekinj, but Sekinj did lead to a scum lynch, so fairy's theory is not giving very much weight in he said she said. However, seeing the scummy play of [underline]both[/underline] of their predecessor's, it is obvious that a review of their play is in order. Since I personally trust Farside, how about we each make a post list of their play through the entire game? (One of us takes each of them, Farside?)

And yes, to be honest, I propose this as I am too lazy to actually do one for each. If you agree, please pick one, and I will do the other tomorrow. If not, what is your counter proposal? (The Dybek vote is today, but I think that their is a very obvious possibly he is not scum, and this could be beneficial to today or tomorrow.)

Or... maybe I am crazy... anyway...

[Light-kun]

Wolf is not confirmed townie.
Remember, if Aegor wanted his old role back too, then we could assume he knew his role was scum. Thus, if he said specifically: "I want my role back." without mention the possibility of being another character, then he would be concluded as scum. That would be a huge error. So, he is not confirmed.

I think the only confirmed townie, at this point, is a dead townie.

Anyway, I will take Aegor's role and do an inspection of it tomorrow evening. Farside, I assume you had rather do Sekinj.

[Light-kun]

If you are scum, it assists in eradicating town's problems Sekinj. Hm... due to your predecessors, I can you see you as scum. The other potentials are due to their predecessors... FL, if you had to pick someone for scum on their most recent play, other than Sekinj, who would you pick? *ie, not first 5 pages.*

[Light-kun]

*Laughs*
If Neko hadn't posted, I would have suggested lynching the role, because you may be correct Farside.

Nothing new on my end, actually.

[Light-kun]

*Thinks* I figured I had something else going for me to say I am protown, but this is probably not the case. *Shrugs*

The only thing I find funny is that you missed the fact that the BB percentage is an inside joke, that the mod would get. Naturally, he cannot comment on if he did or did not get the joke because he is the mod. (ie, that may or may not affect game play, and it is safer to remain silent.)

No matter the case, I feel Cave is slightly protown. He looked at two players who have conflict, and tried to present a case arguing both as possible scum. Wouldn't it be fun if we were both scum? No, not really, as scum partners wouldn't be voting each other without reason, and thus, we would be idiots....

Anyway Cave, it has been said several times among other players, so I am curious:

What are your thoughts on Sekinj?

[Light-kun]

Actually, I agree with bear's argument.
Lynching the scummiest player every day should, inevitably, lead to a town win. That is common sense in a nightless game. *Contemplates*

Bear (and other new person who just read thread), who are your top three scummiest players at the moment?

Votecount:
sekinj - 2 (farside22, FaerieLord)
Cavebear with a toothache - 2 (Light-kun, neko2086)
Light-kun - 2 (Azrael001, Cavebear with a toothache)
Not voting: sekinj
5 to lynch.

[Light-kun]

True. Never said that information is bad, but at this point, nothing is really giving us information. Everyone's play has some good points and some bad points.

@Neko: Az's intentions are clear. He wants my lynch.

[Light-kun]

Seriously, is Sun attacking me the *only* thing going in my favor?

*Laughs*

Okay... Hm... well, Az's consistent attacks worry me to some extent. And even though this isn't an argument, Farside has been exceptionally pro town. This is, of course, exactly the way a scum should play in a no night game... in fact, if he simply ignored who his partners are, scum would play really well and be hard to find... but, this is somewhat on the verge of game theory/abstract thought (to an extent). I have 0% suspicion of Farside, so just bringing up a random thought.

I am sticking with Cavebear for the moment. Okay, everyone, time to do that thing we do. Put every player on a scum to town chart:

Town:
Light-kun farside22

Where?
FaerieLord Azrael001

Closer to scum but still undecided:

Cavebear sekinj neko2086

So, my vote is on cave bear... I'm good for the moment.

[Light-kun]

Unvote

I don't want any funny business while I wait for a few other posts.

[Light-kun]

so now Light and I are in the line of fire...

What put me in the line of fire?

Farside, I was thinking we should decide which is a better information/more scummy player lynch. Cavebear or Sekinj. And, if I had not unvoted, Sekinj would have been able to vote (a very logical vote, mind you), and avoid his death (if he were scum.) However, I just looked above, and realized Sekinj could have voted Cavebear, and so I am going with my previous vote again:

Vote: Cavebear

PS I was somewhat waiting on Neko to post on this page, but I suppose that *can* wait if day ends. It isn't like there is a night or anything.

[Light-kun]

Grr.... I don't want to be King... too much pressure.

King: Farside

Az: no idea what to make of your flip/
Neko: you are still not innocent in my mind. Sorry...
Sekinj: You are not either.
FL: I would hate it if you were town.
Farside: I *will* kill you if you are scum.
Light-kun: You still suspect BB, you are therefore scum. (Obvious joke)

The order of who is likely scum is pretty much up in the air, but the most protown player is (even against myself, as I cannot objectively view myself) Farside. I am for her to control *at least* this lynch.

And, if we really do epic fail and pick the last scum... I wouldn't really feel that bad about it because that means the scum played magnificently.

[Light-kun]

I don't care about comments. King says lynch, I am putting my money where my mouth is:

Vote: Azrael

ooo, L-2. Even at L-1, doing a quick lynch would be stupid since scum is alone.

Votecount:
Azrael001 - 2 (farside22, Light-kun)
FaerieLord - 1 (sekinj)
Not voting: Azrael001, neko2086, FaerieLord
4 to lynch.

[Light-kun]

Unvote Sekinj

[Light-kun]

Sorry, I had to unvote when I didn't have a lot of time. Glad you all figured that out.

Vote: FarieLord

[Light-kun]

I am so awesome. Neko, you should have voted to make it 5/5!

[Light-kun]

Interestingly enough, and my theory may be flawed, but I figured that in a Nightless game, the easiest way to win as scum is to simply bus everyone (sprinkling it out a bit.) Why? Because there are no investigative roles to worry about.

*Thinks* Yes... this seems like it would work, and it is the course of action I would take...

*sighs*

Sekinj, since you will be lynched today, you better explain to me how Neko is confirmed townie again... because I still don't see it...

*Holds off voting for response.*

The good news is, I really think Sekinj is scum, and if he isn't scum, his response to the above should help me figure out things tomorrow.

[Light-kun]

*Sighs*

This is annoying as hell.

First off:

Sekinj, you are still flawed.

Hypothetically, pretend Neko is scum. (since for you, he is confirmed town.)

If you wanted to replace into your old role, but you knew you were town, you could "slip" by saying "or any role" which would indicate that your role was town aligned. So, the very fact that he said that is null...

Farside: I play to win. If I could think of a strategy for a win like that, I would probably do it, no matter how difficult it is to accomplish. *Shrugs* Maybe you are a different type of player. Still, if Sek isn't scum, I am really going to hate tomorrow. I mean:

By Sek's theory a few definite days ago:

Neko-confirmed town
Light-Almost definitely town
Farside: Almost definitely town.

That makes tomorrow difficult because I can agreeably say that in any normal game, I would place farside as town. *Shrugs* But then again, I am aggressive. I don't read farside as agrressive... Well, I'll just hope and pray Sek is scum. As a side note, I wish FL hadn't "slipped." I pretty much thought he was town... *Damns*

*Although, FL versus Farside would have been just as bad a nightmare*
So, going with Sekinj.

Vote Sekinj

[Light-kun]

*Shrugs* Look, if Neko is scum, I would be really happy to win this argument. But feasibly, how could you see Farside as scum?

I mean, yeah *he could* But farside doesn't seem childish enough to do anything it takes to win. Furthermore, if Neko is town, then in my book, you are scum.

*Shrugs* If you end up being town, then I dunno who I will pick. If you end up being scum (which means confusion tactics would work), then it is irrelevant. You will, without almost any doubt, be lynched today. There is no reason for anything else to happen...

*sigh... Crosses fingers and hopes Sekinj is scum.*

[Light-kun]

Unvote

Head slams desk...

ROAR.

Vote Sekinj

So why attack farside over me?

[Light-kun]

I see.

Honestly, that was sheer luck on my part. I was at school, and my ride was like, "LET"S FUCKING LEAVE" and I was like, no, one sec.

When I got home, I decided to follow through with it, but I considered it could be a joke... when others agree with me... well...

*Sighs* I dunno when mod will have access again, but Neko's lack of posting pisses me off.

APPEAR NEKO!

[Light-kun]

My point is don't hammer. While we have Sek's input....

Assuming Sek is town, who is scum, Far or myself?

[Light-kun]

Honestly, I think aegor is scum. But, if there is a tomorrow, then I will probably really give a great deal of consideration on where I place my vote tomorrow.

*Hopes that twilight leads to scum lynch.*

[Light-kun]

Damn...
well, we can't undo what has been done...

This is going to piss me off if scum win.

[Light-kun]

Oh! and light: I took offense at this:

But farside doesn't seem childish enough to do anything it takes to win.

It is childish to do anything it takes to win??

That is pretty much the definition of childish. I am childish and hate to lose. As a result, I will do anything and everything it takes to win.

@ Kila: BOO! I still don't like your playing style... unfortunately, it has taught me that you play the same as both town and scum...

@Farside: If I were scum, I would have called the idea ludicrous. (Of bussing all my buddies just to win) In reality, however, I would more than likely play that way. I would work hard to attack anyone who seemed scummy for virtually any reason. Nightless means scum have no chance to kill, however, it also means 0% chance for a cop. as a result, playing to win as a townie is the best way for scum to win. Even if it did (or did not) come to lynching a fellow mafia member. As a result, scum could win. This, of course, requires all other scum to play the same way, and ideally, I would ignore who my partners were.

Still, I can't believe Sun attacked FL like that... It was honestly incredible for someone who played so amateurishly to be so violent and believable.

Anyway, second win, that makes 2/3 with a few others pending...
SWEET.