Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

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Post Post #1400 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 7:36 am

Post by votato »

ugh i kinda hate myself for doing this. sorry, long wallpost. theres a ton of fluffposting and shitposting in the iso, but here are some highlights.
Spoiler:
In post 641, osuka wrote:
In post 53, Freddiethelady wrote:
In post 12, iamironcat wrote:Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:
gibus
In post 45, iamironcat wrote:
In post 20, votato wrote:this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.
Fine, VOTE: votato
you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat
that's very scummy
VOTE: freddiethelady
osuka's initial post unvoted and said "lemme get caught up." shortly thereafter, without being caught up, he drops another vote. this scumread developed really fast, and hasnt been remotely re-evaluated. in fact, anyone who defends freddie or questions osuka is scum in osuka's mind.
In post 652, osuka wrote:
In post 212, Formerfish wrote:Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.
ouch

this is disgusting
no it isnt. thats statistically true. interesting that FF and osu start shading each other. throughout the game they shade each other, but never vote or want pressure. seems like scum theater. more on this story at 11!
In post 649, osuka wrote:hahahah I was thinking to myself, ironcat reads as town before I realized that's my fucking slot

what a day
hmmm
In post 653, osuka wrote:
In post 218, iamironcat wrote:
In post 217, Formerfish wrote: Here you talk about yourself being killed tonight based off a random read from RVS within the first 10 pages.

Thats a lot of whatfuckingifs to check off to hit on the head. Hence why I mentioned that the idea that you would be the night kill as a puzzler.

Youre the person who thinks everyone is scum at first and we have to prove to you somehow that we arent, right?
Wasn't just talking about self but anyways.
It's easy to kill anyone who's town and I might be one of them. Mafia might either NK those who they might consider having a good lead or those who were accused by another town to set them up.
In this case, I used myself as an example for easy talking.

Not asking anyone to prove me personally that I'm not scum. Just talking about my process of elimination.

Also, you seem to be taking a lot of things personally - hence projecting them onto me.
fucking christ, I'd vote this if I weren't on this slot
wait what happened to that townread? (spoiler, the self-townread comes back later...)
In post 654, osuka wrote:I think ironcat was actively trying to get himself killed
again, i townread myself, but please ignore all the scummy stuff i see coming from my slot
In post 660, osuka wrote:
In post 391, gibus wrote:My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]


I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol
this is a pretty weird tierlist
IIoA
In post 1171, osuka wrote:Fish has done and said some very questionable things over the last 3 or 4 pages but I struggle to see some of his posts as coming from scum
more shade, but doesnt press the issue
In post 1174, osuka wrote:I maintain that the wave lynch was bad. Good chance it’ll flip town
at no point did you defend wave, and in fact there were a few posts where you called wave out. you said you needed to evaluate the slot and sort it, but never did. this post is as a result really bad. trying to get towncred post-flip when you never defended the slot prior to this.
In post 1176, osuka wrote:Lilith could be scum but that’s a quick thought without anything concrete behind it. I’ll have to iso
this never happened either. you keep promising work, but haven't done anything to sort any slots except freddie (and me by association, and now apparently tuxedo for having the audacity not to sheep you).
In post 1190, osuka wrote:you were a very solid townread of mine but the way you handled the lynch and what youve said since you hammered is very very offputting
again, FF is scummy, but am i going to pressure the slot? no. im gonna keep calling FF out but then maintain a solid townread.
In post 1214, osuka wrote:scumteam is { freddie, 1{ lil, nausi, gibus } }

ive solved the game and youre all welcome
so basically your solve involves everyone except you and FF. and this was pre-flip, yet youre acting like wave already flipped town.
In post 1354, osuka wrote:if freddie flips town, however remote that possibility, votato should be powerlynched the following day barring only the literal apocalypse

i can understand poor decision making in light of judgment day
yes, i should be lynched for being right. makes sense. also, for the record, your solve at this point is me and freddie. you think we are scum partners. so if freddie flips scum, you want to lynch me for being scum. but now if freddie flips town you still want to lynch me. thats what tuxedo is saying. and tuxedo is right.
In post 1368, osuka wrote:that's a scum slip if ive ever seen one. in fact, I will bet that scum team is { tuxedo, { freddie, votato } } - the second member of which depends on the votato-freddie dynamic i explained earlier
this solve is based on freddie!scum, which is a bad read. then theres me!scum for townreading freddie. and now tuxedo is even more scum for the crime of questioning you.


tl;dr: osuka decided in post four of the iso that freddie was scum. since then theres been no effort to sort anyone else, other than me and now tuxedo for defending freddie, and FF as town for attacking freddie, despite pointing out a lot of scummy posts from FF. interestingly, despite saying theres a lot of scummy posts from FF, osuka never pushes at FF. looks like distancing.
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Post Post #1401 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 8:55 am

Post by osuka »

In post 1397, votato wrote:
In post 1378, Formerfish wrote:
In post 1376, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Fish why are you just coaching his play right now?
I'm not.

And if I were scum with him why would I be doing it here and not in the scum PT?
because youre distancing because you are seeing the writing on the wall for osuka. which is also why you pointed that out looking for towncred
this is shit reasoning

if fish is my scumpartner, there is no reason on the planet he would 1. wait until it got to this point to "coach me", and THEN 2. do it in the fucking game thread instead of mafia pt


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Post Post #1402 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 9:27 am

Post by Formerfish »

In post 1389, gibus wrote:How is pressure voting sus? We need content from everyone before we lynch.

I'm curious about her thoughts on Fred after he claimed, people other than votato and FF, wave's flip, no NK.
I don't like #1308 because it looks like confbias at that point (he was scumreading FF & osuka for a while).
Because we have a nk and we have 1 person who hasnt checked it yet (at the time), so your pressure vote and Naucis is sitting on someone who should have been allowed to check in before they started to get votes.
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Post Post #1403 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 9:29 am

Post by Formerfish »

In post 1392, osuka wrote:what i mean to say is that only scum votato is THAT sure of freddie's town alignment
And i have told you that I have played a game where on day 1 a player town reads another and says its 100% correct.

We lynch the guy who had the sure town read and he flipped green. Then the guy he tred stayed alive and we ended up winning the game.

So the read itself isnt the issue, its the level of assuredness that is just a bad play from town if they are.
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Post Post #1404 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 9:58 am

Post by Formerfish »

In post 1400, votato wrote:despite saying theres a lot of scummy posts from FF,
osuka
gibus never pushes at FF.
ftfy

god so many typos this game, im glad im on my shit and can point all these out.
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Post Post #1405 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 10:35 am

Post by Nauci »

Hi, just woke up with crushing migraine, taking drugs that will erase the rest of my day and spending it in a sound free light free room sleeping
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Post Post #1406 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 10:54 am

Post by votato »

lol, FF and osuka complain for days that i dont make a case. i finally do, and they completely ignore it.
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Post Post #1407 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 11:33 am

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

Votato any reason you're not voting now?
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Post Post #1408 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 am

Post by osuka »

In post 1406, votato wrote:lol, FF and osuka complain for days that i dont make a case. i finally do, and they completely ignore it.
no i mean i saw it but havent come around to replying to it yet. ill read the thing fully and reply later today, just dont have the time right now


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Post Post #1409 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 12:07 pm

Post by Formerfish »

In post 1406, votato wrote:lol, FF and osuka complain for days that i dont make a case. i finally do, and they completely ignore it.
Yes, sorry I was spending the day with my daughter and not waiting with bated breath for you to make a case on someone I tr.

Tell you what, I'll let my little girl take the kite and I'll drive right the fuck into that.

Jesus, you barely play until now and then are shitty when we don't immediately respond to your case.

I'm good with my stance on Vota dying today. I'm not reading his case.
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Post Post #1410 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 12:32 pm

Post by Formerfish »

Who does one call if their 6yo was whisked away by a large kite? I can still see her, but she's going over some trees and I won't be able to follow...

I blame Vota.
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Post Post #1411 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 12:35 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

@votato so you believe that ironcat/osuka and formerfish pushing each other for a large part of D1 was scum theater?
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Post Post #1412 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 12:36 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

I'm still in the process of rereading, it's going very slowly as I am taking copious notes and making a chart and stuff. Will be posting in sections as I go.
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Post Post #1413 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

I am currently past page 8.

Spoiler: wall of notes
- : Freddie votes ironcat/osuka with what looks to be a “serious” reason, but the reason itself is not valid. Says ironcat/osuka is flipflopping but the two quotes she posted are from the first and then second game roll, so not a valid serious reason. It feels like she was trying to fit in with RVS but tried too hard to come up with a real reason for voting ironcat/osuka. Was this an actually serious vote? ( =/+ Freddie depending on answer)
- to : Gibus asks feathers/nausi if they are scum. Feathers/nausi claims VT and then gibus “claims” VT and votes feathers/nausi in the same post. Gibus’ vote seems like simultaneously “noobtownslipping” but voting feathers/nausi for doing the same thing. ( + gibus; - gibus & feathers/nausi team)
- to : Gibus votes Freddie, says he’s trying to get us out of RVS, then votes brass/wavesarc. The reasoning behind switching the votes around isn’t really valid but I don’t think it’s AI.
- : Votato asks me why I voted gibus, but doesn’t explain why he voted gibus. Could be trying to soft defend a scumbuddy here ( + votato; possibly + votato & gibus team)
- : Feathers/nausi is townreading votato and maybe Freddie (but doesn’t give reasons for townreading Freddie); scumreading gibus but doesn’t vote gibus; and scumreading people who are “lurking” but actually weren’t lurking, including me, who he is voting. Reads on Freddie and gibus are probably the weirdest here. ( + feathers; + feathers/nausi & Freddie team; + feathers/nausi & gibus team; - feathers/nausi & votato team)
- : votato seems to be either strongly townreading feathers or TMIing (“since you’re town” seems like votato knows feathers is town here when town!votato wouldn’t know feathers’ alignment for sure). Will need to watch out for future posts implying one or the other. Also some soft defense of me. ( + votato)
- : Freddie is fencesitting on gibus (“Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act”) then questions why I voted gibus right after votato asks the same question, even though I just explained it. Further shades me for “being more experienced than I’m letting on” even though that like… isn’t possible, since I’m not trying to hide experience.. Could be noobscum following in scumpartner votato’s footsteps in questioning me and defending gibus, resulting in trying to shade my slot without actually hard pushing; or possibly scum!freddie getting overly concerned with my vote on scumpartner gibus ( + Freddie; + Freddie & votato team; + Freddie & gibus team)
- : Freddie calls me out for defending ironcat/osuka when all I said was that he wasn’t lurking, but also says it might not be AI but is “interesting.” More fencesitting. Probably wouldn’t call someone out who was siding with their scumpartner, so less likely to be scum with ironcat/osuka slot. ( + Freddie; - Freddie & ironcat/osuka team)
- : a bit more soft defense of my slot from votato.
- : feathers/nausi says vote is on gibus because switching votes a lot and wanting RVS to end are scum indicative, which is actually wrong. Ironcat/osuka later uses this reasoning to scumread me. Not sure if this is AI in either case, as the logic is just bad but not necessarily scummy.
- : Freddie shades me for “not posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better” being suspicious. Immediately backs off after my response. Could go either way on this one.
- : more soft defense of my slot from votato. I think could be trying to buddy me. ( + votato)
- and : Ironcat/osuka votes Freddie for questioning gibus’ ping ponging votes, and says Freddie is trying to “buddy him with Lilith.” What does this even mean? Also Freddie isn’t the one who called ironcat/osuka out for lurking, it was gibus; and Freddie didn’t push ironcat/osuka at all. This seems like an overly focused post to Freddie when Freddie isn’t even scumreading or pushing ironcat/osuka. Likely not SvS. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- : gibus says at least one of me/Freddie is town. Votato immediately pops into thread to ask why. Gibus responds that freddie’s and my argument about whether I was defending ironcat looks like “something we would have gone through in a PT if they both were scum.” Then says “little chance for [distancing] since Lilith planned on leaving RVS by voting for me, and shifting the spotlight to both of them would look bad as scum.” This looks like town reasoning, although I disagree that this kind of disagreement couldn’t be manufactured by scumpartners. ( - gibus)
- : Ironcat/osuka says “it’s funny how Freddie is saying that flipping is a mafia move,” again incorrectly ascribing someone else’s post (feathers) to Freddie in order to build a read on them. Then ironcat/osuka FOSes me for reasons unclear, says I would “put the blame on Freddie.” Suddenly switches to townread on Freddie and scumread on me with no explanation and no additional posts from either Freddie or myself to inform that change in read. A weird interaction, I think it’s more likely to be scum flipping read on town than two scumpartners. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- : Feathers/nausi questions ironcat/osuka – why is ironcat/osuka voting Freddie but also worried Freddie would be blamed for a kill?
- to : Ironcat/osuka responds with “don’t worry, I’m suspicious of you as well. Who said that Freddie would be blamed?” when…. that’s exactly what he said about Freddie. In 157, he’s still supposedly scumreading Freddie though, and in 159 says that if I’m scum, that I could kill people who suspect me and blame Freddie since ironcat/osuka suspected Freddie too. Once again, this implies townreading Freddie even though reads list says Freddie is a scumread. Could be inadvertent TMI (knows Freddie is town). Also I’m the highest scumread even though ironcat/osuka only suspects me by association with Freddie.. This is a cagey way to start scumreading me and pushing original Freddie read to the side. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- and 161: votato votes ironcat/osuka for misunderstanding ironcat/osuka’s list as being “all the scumreads” rather than “list of scummiest to towniest.” Not sure if AI, but could be trying to soft defend me or Freddie here since those are ironcat/osuka’s two top scumreads. ( + votato & Freddie team)
- In , gibus says “quicksolve: brass, Lilith, formerfish” but doesn’t vote brass until several hours later in , as if he forgot that he should be voting who he scumreads most and had to be reminded. ( + gibus)
- : ironcat/osuka and votato misunderstanding over the “suspicion list” doesn’t seem like SvS. Ironcat/osuka’s explanation for why he is scumreading Freddie doesn’t actually mention Freddie at all. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & votato team)
- and : Ironcat/osuka suddenly votes me based on associatives, horrible reason to vote. He hasn’t found anything that I’ve actually done up to this point that is scummy, but is voting me based on association with Freddie. Freddie suddenly becomes his strongest townread, so they could be scumpartners intending to both end up pushing me all along. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)

Spoiler: conclusions thus far
scumpool of {freddie, ironcat/osuka, votato}
- votato seemed to be soft defending me from freddie as well as soft defending me & freddie from ironcat/osuka, which comes across as WKing or chainsaw if freddie is also scum; also has a very strong townread on feathers/nausi which could be TMIing on that slot.
- freddie was fencesitting on gibus yet in the same post soft defending him; and was fencesitty on me when I said ironcat wasn't lurking. Also shaded me/others for things that weren't AI (including the "lurking", "being more experienced than I'm letting on" and not being friendly/helpful enough).
- ironcat seems to focus overly much on pushing freddie slot and calling them scum. He called me scum by association with Freddie, then after being questioned, suddenly flipped his read on Freddie without flipping the read on me that was formed by association with a scum!Freddie. He didn't provide any other reason for scumreading me.

Questions up to this point:

@Freddie, was actually a serious vote?
@votato, why did you vote gibus in ?
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Post Post #1414 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 2:28 pm

Post by votato »

78 was more or less RVS. as i recall it was either because gibus was voting all over or because gibus self-voted. it wasnt a serious scumread. it was about 40 pages too early for that. and yes i can definitely see osu and FF's interactions as scum theater. they keep shading each other, but when did either of them actually put any pressure on the other? they haven't voted each other, and every time they interact they fight and then immediately mutally townread again.
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Post Post #1415 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:00 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

This is going really slowly and tbh might just not finish my reread of D1 before the deadline lynch happened and focus on the end of D1 and what's happened so far in D2. I want to point out this post by formerfish though:
In post 1296, Formerfish wrote:Hey Freddie, Vota seems convinced you are town, does the feeling flow both ways, or is this a one way street type of thing between you two?
@Freddie you never responded to this. You basically haven't said anything about your read on votato all game, and the last time you even mention attempting to read him is , basically saying that you didn't have a read. Can you explain why you haven't voiced a read on votato yet, and what your read on him is now?
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Post Post #1416 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:05 pm

Post by gibus »

@lilith I never claimed.
outsmarts bullet
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Post Post #1417 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:14 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen
all of these things
in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.
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Post Post #1418 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:15 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

In post 1416, gibus wrote:@lilith I never claimed.
That's why I put the word "claimed" in quotes.
In post 84, gibus wrote:Aren't we all vanilla townies.. VOTE: feathers
What exactly were you trying to say here then? Why did you vote feathers?
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Post Post #1419 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:17 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

In post 1149, votato wrote:well fish you did go fishing for claims pretty hard
this is literally not true, he didn't ask anyone to claim. I was the one who asked waves to claim, and no one asked freddie to claim.
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Post Post #1420 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:20 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

In post 1164, Nauci wrote:I just don't know how to believe the idea that Freddie successfully read that the fakehammer was fake but then failed to pick up on 2 pages of discussion that they should NOT claim immediately after
^ this
In post 1167, Freddiethelady wrote:
In post 1150, Formerfish wrote:
In post 1147, Freddiethelady wrote:I thought you meant that the group that’s on my wagon would know to kill me or not...I didn’t want to die so I thought, claim your role. I cracked. I don’t know what to say.
Yeah, but you cracked in such a way at a specific time where you are making an attempt to explain why you werent killed tonight.

Follow me here.

If we just lynched Waves after your whole "how do I claim" stuff then scum could look at you and think to themselves that he was ready to claim, so therefore maybe he had something to claim other than a vt, so we should still kill him tonight in case he is a PR and we get lucky.

By claiming after the lynch went through all you are doing is taking your name out of the hat because now scum knows youre a vt and wouldn't target you for the nk because they would be PR hunting among the unclaimed people.

You just explained why you are alive tomorrow even though you really shouldnt be. Scum should have killed you tonight so that they could throw shade over all the people who were pushing you since they would have been pushing a townie right?

But you arent town, so your team mate told you to claim vt so you wouldnt die tonight and have a reason to point to when youre still alive.

Scum caught, i rest my case.
What will happen to this theory when I flip town?
freddie was still talking as if a wave lynch hadn't occurred literally in front of her eyes and multiple people hadn't straight up told her that it happened.

Like I just seriously can't believe that this cluelessness isn't manufactured.
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Post Post #1421 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:23 pm

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In post 1219, Formerfish wrote:And I'm not even sure how you consider yourself to be pocketed. You keep shading me while agreeing with everything I say, are you trying to gaslight me?
@votato: This doesn't seem like SvS to me, I don't think scum!fish would call out scum!osuka for inconsistency in his read on fish. Like there's no reason for him to call attention to his scumpartner like that.
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Post Post #1422 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:25 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

In post 1166, Freddiethelady wrote:Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!
In post 1389, gibus wrote:How is pressure voting sus? We need content from everyone before we lynch.

I'm curious about her thoughts on Fred after he claimed, people other than votato and FF, wave's flip, no NK.
I don't like #1308 because it looks like confbias at that point (he was scumreading FF & osuka for a while).
No, votato wasn't scumreading fish before the whole D1 lynch fiasco. Fish wasn't in his lynchpool for D1 at all. Votato only started putting fish into his scumpile after fish called freddie scum.
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Post Post #1423 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:27 pm

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In post 1422, lilith2013 wrote:
In post 1166, Freddiethelady wrote:Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!
I forgot to talk about this one, just more "cluelessness" from freddie that I don't buy. Once again, multiple people straight up told her that waves was dead, they told her why it was bad to claim after the lynch happened, and then she keeps acting like she will be lynched.
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Post Post #1424 (ISO) » Mon May 25, 2020 6:30 pm

Post by lilith2013 »

In post 1335, gibus wrote:"claiming VT" is an unnecessary move as scum
sure, it's unnecessary, that doesn't mean it's not a scum move or that it's not scum-motivated.

To me it felt like scum!freddie felt caught, like she would automatically be lynched for her behavior. when she said "good luck everyone" that implied she expected to be lynched next.

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