Power Brokers: Game of Thrones - Game Over

[Porkens]

What a load of shit!

Aero is trying to strip the power brokers of their mod given rights. He says the town will be safe if we cut our own throats and play at being his lapdogs.

I will not stand idly by and watch this authoritarian take over.

Why should we trust him? Does he speak from a place of virtue? No! He projects his will on all of us and coerces us in the guise of “optimal play”. But scum can just as easily suggest optimal play. And to what end? Control.

Aero is making a naked power grab and if you think he will stop at the brokers you are willfully blind or so innocent. Next he will be calling the shots for the council and soon the nobles will be the only power left. No I say, no.

Let’s pluck this malignancy our before it spreads. And send a message to other would be tyrants.

A free town is a safe town. A free town is a powerful town. Let each of us look after our own interest as we see fit. This big government utopia will weaken us and leave our enemies with all the power and all the

options

. It is folly to go down that path.

VOTE: aero

Him or me, please. If you want to drink his koolaid, so be it but I’d rather die than play in aero’s version of the game.

I bid you goodnight.

P edit I’m hoping distraction is an aggressive action so that I can get one of the sweet powers. Nero is my fellow broker and you were beefing with his so I hoped to kill two birds with one stone. Well, not kill- you get the idea.

[Auro]

Disagree. I have day vigged a supped up SK on D1 before. It's the only time I have been day vig.

Getting it right once doesn't mean it's useful.
You surely agree that fake guilties are generally anti-town right? I could have faked a guilty only once in my MS life and correctly so, so I can disagree and say fake guiltying is great.
Do you see the problem with that logic?

Besides, here we want to have a minimum number of kills per day phase so that Court Officials can make use of their checks. The more phases we have, the more shots Court Officials get to check flips.

If you're sure of someone being scum, get them lynched.

If we allow people to vig whenever they want, I can guarantee that scum will make full use of it and we see numbers dwindle quick.

This is especially bad because the first few assassinations will invariably be Court Officials

, we need a few of them to survive to D4 when people who can hide take their powers.

Call Banners

Officials don't have distract. I am IMPLEMENTING a thing, it's not native to the game as is. I am saying IF we rotate, we can develop trust (until endgame that is).

Porkens is a Power Broker, he used distract on you.
I don't see the basis by which trust is gained through rotation. This isn't really a problem as long as all Court Officials perform any of the two actions in {Investigate flip, Investigate plots} with a heavier weight to the former, if scum lie in the main thread they heavily risk getting CC'd by another Court Official and thus screw themselves over.

Auro...

I have something spicy to share about my new PC upgrades, but not until I can actually purchase it since I don't want the secret getting out until I make my purchase. It's a prime PC part at a phenomenal price.

Ooooooo! I wanted to get a steering wheel here (I have a VR system so combining the two = awesome) but none of the good ones are available, only some basic Thrustmaster Red Ferrari one which rotates only 90 degrees

[Auro]

Aero is trying to strip the power brokers of their mod given rights. He says the town will be safe if we cut our own throats and play at being his lapdogs.

I will not stand idly by and watch this authoritarian take over.

Every game

. I tell town the pro-town strategy from mechanics, and someone comes along to call me a "dictator", "authoritarian", "fascist" and what not and tries to get me lynched. Sweet!

I'll add a disclaimer:

I was asked for mechanical thoughts and insights, therefore I offered them

. Town is free to abandon them and "have fun",

it still stands that freely vigging people and the other actions are negative utility

.

Calling something negative utility does not make me scum, so Porkens should try harder.

[LicketyQuickety]

Officials don't have distract. I am IMPLEMENTING a thing, it's not native to the game as is. I am saying IF we rotate, we can develop trust (until endgame that is).

Porkens is a Power Broker, he used distract on you.
I don't see the basis by which trust is gained through rotation. This isn't really a problem as long as all Court Officials perform any of the two actions in {Investigate flip, Investigate plots} with a heavier weight to the former, if scum lie in the main thread they heavily risk getting CC'd by another Court Official and thus screw themselves over.

But what if it's two court officials who are Scum? That's the only reason we need to rotate. If you want to say 2 Investigate Death and 2 Investigate Plot, then I can see that fairly well. But we still need to rotate so two Scum Officials don't spoon feed us with false info.

Auro...

I have something spicy to share about my new PC upgrades, but not until I can actually purchase it since I don't want the secret getting out until I make my purchase. It's a prime PC part at a phenomenal price.

Ooooooo! I wanted to get a steering wheel here (I have a VR system so combining the two = awesome) but none of the good ones are available, only some basic Thrustmaster Red Ferrari one which rotates only 90 degrees

I'll be able to buy it Friday, so next Day I should be able to tell you. That is only granted I am alive, ofc.

Will say more later...

[Auro]

He says the town will be safe if we cut our own throats and play at being his lapdogs.

This reveals a poor understanding of my posts.

The plan is to:

• Eliminate all non-scum-NPC assassinations, i.e. out scum Spies who try to assassinate people
  
• Have all Nobles and Power Brokers be able to hide, making scum kills only 20% effective
  
• Have town retain investigative powers even in the case of Court Officials getting wiped out by the scum team

None of these give me personal agency. None of these are plans that benefit me as scum. None of these involve anyone being my lapdog. None of these involve anyone killing themselves.

Nobles killing people at their castles is NU.
Power Brokers assassinating or kidnapping people is NU.
Court Officials disbanding guards is NU.

[Auro]

But what if it's two court officials who are Scum? That's the only reason we need to rotate. If you want to say 2 Investigate Death and 2 Investigate Plot, then I can see that fairly well. But we still need to rotate so two Scum Officials don't spoon feed us with false info.

Well, what about on the day when both are assigned to flip-check? That particular day we could get false info, no?
My thoughts are that officials randomly perform checks and only report if there's a scum flip or an extra Spy plot.

If you're a scum CO, you don't know whether other town COs are doing the same check as you. If you lie, another CO could simply come out and say "He's lying!" and town can simply lynch them both hitting guaranteed scum. That's what I mean.

[LicketyQuickety]

What is NU?

P-Edit. But, let's say it's 2 Scum who STAY together on actions? The only upside to CO acting as independent agents is that Scum can't predict what is happening. Still, you can build loyalty by keeping people honest. I guess at this point we need to have some sort of list for T-S CO and then have the more Town CO do the more valuable actions.

I will compromise though... If we can just direct 2-3 CO based on them being read as Town and have them do the more valuable Actions, then that

should

keep everyone in check. Ofc, Porkens has already distracted me, so I have really no clout in what CO do what at this point. Just stating this here so it can be decided on.

[Auro]

NU = Negative Utility.

Sure, but even if 2 scum stay together on actions, they can't predict the other 3 CO's actions, no? So what do they even achieve?
The thing is, we can't build loyalty from honesty. Scum can very well "build loyalty" early game and then change their play late game. The moment you start making lists, it allows scum to choose who to NK and allows more leeway in faking investigate results.

Hopefully Porkens doesn't hold the Distract power for the day, but otherwise that was a pointless anti-town action.

[Auro]

Special Actions: (has a chance of being given each time a player takes an aggressive action: arrest, kill, kidnap, disband):
-Recruit ally (gain an NPC third-in-command that will give you an additional action per phase, can only be used once per game) (slow) (hidden)
-Secret alliance (neighborizer, 1-shot) (burst) (hidden)

-Escape route (1-shot evade assassination or hostage execution) (triggers upon threat) (hidden)

Sweet. This is how Court Officials can prevent getting NK'd.
LQ, you can Disband my Guard and then take the Escape Route power
I personally don't care for Guards, I want to travel fast between castles.

[Auro]

Right now, I townread {Arya, BBMolla, Shireen, Nero Cain, LQ} in no particular order of strength from their play. I can discuss specific reads if anyone wants to!

[Nero Cain]

y Shireen?

[Nero Cain]

Slip how do you know they are red?

how many games have you played on this site where town pms are green and red pms are scum? ofc you can argue that since the town pm is not colored thus the scum pm would not be colored but its pretty obvious what I meant. This seems incredibly surface lvl and fake.

I think like 2?

this is some bullshit though. Not every game but practicly every game uses green for town and red for mafia.

[Auro]

Her general tone and play, and the way she reacted to me when I said I would PL her if she had no legitimate stances - she offered a "legitimate stance" of me being scum, which I don't really imagine she would do as scum. I felt he'd either push me back on the whole PL thing, or vote someone else.

[Auro]

this is some bullshit though. Not every game but practicly every game uses green for town and red for mafia.

This is of course nonsense, but: how do you know that Porkens is not simply trolling?

[Nero Cain]

I don't

[Shireen Baratheon]

I don't care who you are.

FTFY.

[Auro]

Right now, I townread {Arya, BBMolla, Shireen, Nero Cain, LQ} in no particular order of strength from their play. I can discuss specific reads if anyone wants to!

Oh, I forgot, Elena is in this list too.

[Rubicon]

@ABR:

Do Court Official roles disappear permanently when a Court Official dies, or would we be able to appoint new officials with a coup even after the original ones died?

[Rubicon]

Special Actions: (has a chance of being given each time a player takes an aggressive action: arrest, kill, kidnap, disband):
-Recruit ally (gain an NPC third-in-command that will give you an additional action per phase, can only be used once per game) (slow) (hidden)
-Secret alliance (neighborizer, 1-shot) (burst) (hidden)

-Escape route (1-shot evade assassination or hostage execution) (triggers upon threat) (hidden)

Sweet. This is how Court Officials can prevent getting NK'd.
LQ, you can Disband my Guard and then take the Escape Route power
I personally don't care for Guards, I want to travel fast between castles.

Pretty sure the awarded special powers are random?

[Auro]

Pretty sure the awarded special powers are random?

Oh. I thought that the randomness was in whether or not the powers were awarded, not which power was given. Well, at least this offers a chance of escaping assassinates, which is still good, I guess?

[Nero Cain]

Oh, I forgot, Elena is in this list too.

you are town reading the person you are voting?

[Auro]

VOTE: Porkens

Yeah, I'm townreading the person my vote was on at the time I scumread her.

[LicketyQuickety]

I wouldn't lynch Nero or Porkens today.

While yolo daykills are bad I don't think we need explicit democratic mandate on each one of them. The threat of daykills is something scum are forced to play around.

VOTE: Elena Fisher for generic unexplained stances.

Why did you pretty much come to the opposite conclusion now?

[Auro]

In Elena's case specifically I'd like to reveal reasoning later.

[Rubicon]

Spy Network Actions:
-Plan assassination (kill a player's second-in-command if there is one accompanying him, if none, then kill player. Must designate location of player at time of resolution or action fails) (slow) (hidden)
-Infiltrate intelligence network (Has a chance to unlock after the first Secret Alliance is made. Pick 2 players you suspect of having a secret alliance and become a hidden observer in their PT) (fast) (hidden)
-Take hostage (must target a player without a household guard (or busy arresting) to a designated castle and jailkeep them, must designate target player's location at resolution) (slow) (hidden)
-Distract Court Official (this ability is rotated between Power Brokers every phase) (burst) (public)

None of these seem helpful to town.

Take Hostage is a valuable role for both alignments. For example, if we agree that Court Officials will be targeted for the first few scum assassinations, we could agree to take the Court Officials hostage at random locations, protecting them with the jailkeep and (maybe?) interfering with scum's ability to use the same Take Hostage power to prep their assassinations. Would that work?

There might also be some value in Power Brokers jailkeeping each other, but I'm too tired right now to think that through.

(I'm not sure how multiple conflicting jailkeeps resolve in this setup, the action resolution isn't really clear on that.)

Plan Assassination seems really anti-town in the early game phases, but I don't feel good about restricting town kill power later on. Yes, this might backfire horribly, but still - sometimes you get into a situation where you need an extra kill to win.