Mini Normal 2148 (Post Game)

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: geraintm

I'm not big on a votato lynch

Why gerain?

[stungun0404]

Geraintm (5): stungun0404, bob3141, votato, Porkens, Dunnstral
votato (3): farside22, notscience, Not_Mafia
Dunnstral (2): DoctorPepper, Malakittens
notscience (1): geraintm
Porkens (1) Green Crayons
stungun0404 (1): HK 50

Looks like it's Gera vs. Vot vs. Dunn right now

The chances will be higher that NS is scum I think if gera is scum, simply because supposing gera is new at playing scum, he could have just voteparked on a partner (as I had a scumpartner do once in a newbie game and I could not get them to move off of me nobody how many times I told them to, and it later implicated me). Plus, I notice that NS is defending Gera here by voting Votato, while saying he feels more confident in Gera townflip (still no scumhunting).

I just want to point this out as a possibility, even though NS more than likely wouldn't be my top suspect next day phase, because I could foresee this being the case if gera is scum.

[stungun0404]

I just don't get how NS is not suspicious of gera if he has voteparked on him all day?

[Not_Mafia]

Geraint's wagon composition is atrocious

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Porkens

This slot has to go

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: geraintm

I'm not big on a votato lynch

Why gerain?

May be scum, seems to be the only option, I don't like the other option

I want to vote Mala again after looking over their posting this day again

[Dunnstral]

His attack on pork reads pretty fake.

Not sure what you're talking about.

[stungun0404]

Geraint's wagon composition is atrocious

I disagree--what makes me feel best about is that myself and my biggest TR Bob are the ones leading it as compared to the back three which I think are the more likely scum if some are on the lynch. I feel all right about Dunn and Votato, Porkens could be scum, but from your vantage point I think that you are suspicious of the last 3 (your supposed scum team you mentioned earlier). Why couldn't one of them be joining a wagon on a scum partner from your perspective?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Porkens

This slot has to go

i cannot stress this enough.

[Green Crayons]

my biggest TR Bob

I just don't understand you.

[HK 50]

Stungun why do you think the wagon state is only explained by inactive scum?

I'm generally curious. When I left, it was mostly between GC vs Pork, and now there is a completely new wagon competition. The only way your inactivity theory makes sense to me is if neither pork or GC is scum from your POV since there was a clear pivot in gamestate to promote a whole new set of bandwagons.

[HK 50]

UNVOTE: btw

[farside22]

His attack on pork reads pretty fake.

Not sure what you're talking about.

hmm apparently that wasn't you and I can't recall who I thought that about.
Doesn't matter come D2

[stungun0404]

Stungun why do you think the wagon state is only explained by inactive scum?

I'm generally curious. When I left, it was mostly between GC vs Pork, and now there is a completely new wagon competition. The only way your inactivity theory makes sense to me is if neither pork or GC is scum from your POV since there was a clear pivot in gamestate to promote a whole new set of bandwagons.

We've had plenty of time to lynch someone (3 days added to original day phase), and if scum was taking a super active approach in general, then we most likely would have already secured a lynch. Yet it is still hard to secure a lynch, no matter the direction we go in (Porkens taken to L-1 at the furthest but very briefly, Votato/Dunn to L-2 and now Geraintm finally to L-2). Note that I was on every single one of the wagons I believe when they were at their peak, so assuming others think I am town trying to pressure/see how others react to different wagons, then it makes perfect sense that there are one if not more passive scumplayers that are not taking an active part in pushing things in a specific direction.

It's not hard to secure a lynch when scum is actively helping, especially if every single one of them are in some way. By the feel of things alone, this suggests to me that there is definitely a passive scum member somewhere to be found.

[HK 50]

thought I would lok over Dunnstral, as they are currently the biggest wagon.

they are throwing arounda bunch of "they are mafia" posts very easily.
they have a few posts where they say they think someone is town.

they seem a bit trigger happy with their calling people scum, but overall...nothing here I am too upset about yet.

I think this is the post where I defended Dunn.
I remember feeling like I really should look over people in the game, and looking at the person with the most votes was the obvious place to start. If everyone else was thinking they were scummy, could I see it too? Maybe join the wagon.

I looked. I saw nothing to get upset about. And said so.
I wouldn't say it was a hard felt defence of them though. I didnt try and start an alternative wagon on anyone, it was just me going Meh to it

492 is actually pretty scummy seeing it here again. The whole post is basically germ refurbishing Dunns ISO in a manner to indicate a scum conclusion (which he starts to admit at the end of the post), but conclude that its NAI.

the no lynch push admiss the shuffling of vote counts is also equally as terrible. It's clear that either method robs town of a lynch anyways (barring a successful protect), and in essence gives scum a mislynch without any gain for town. Meta aside, it's not a hard conclusion to draw independently on why such a move is a folly. The timing of it bothers me greatly.

The only town ping I see in germ is the refusal to claim which I can understand to a degree. With one claim already out there, germ claiming gives mafia two more bits of info assuming both is town and neither actually get lynched. Moreover, I really don't see why mafia wouldnt at least try to bait out more chaos by just claiming a PR. Yes GC already brought up scums tendency to do so, but I think that event actually gives good WIFOM potential to exploit for scum!germ.

[Not_Mafia]

Robutt, please vote Porkens

[stungun0404]

HK50, Geraintm is against claiming in general though, so it would not make any sense for him to claim given the stance he took against me earlier in the game. Him claiming PR would be sketchy af given that stance.

We have one day left in this day phase and about 5 hours, which means

@Porkens: it is really important that you claim in your next post so that if your role is important to us that are town, we can keep you and have more time to make a well-informed decision to move elsewhere.

I hate cdemands for claims like this. it never seems to help. if it is scum, they can flush out someone else or else send town onto a wild lynch chase that won't go anywhere good. if it is town...how is getting them to claim and out themselves going to help?

He wants no claims at all -- that was what he was trying to promote.

If scum and we implement this plan as town, this plan would provide scum an opportunity to lynch power roles without them even claiming.

That, and scum does not want to be forced into a role claim, naturally because they are scum.

[farside22]

Robutt, please vote Porkens

Come back to the unicorn. I have cookies!

[HK 50]

Stungun why do you think the wagon state is only explained by inactive scum?

I'm generally curious. When I left, it was mostly between GC vs Pork, and now there is a completely new wagon competition. The only way your inactivity theory makes sense to me is if neither pork or GC is scum from your POV since there was a clear pivot in gamestate to promote a whole new set of bandwagons.

We've had plenty of time to lynch someone (3 days added to original day phase), and if scum was taking a super active approach in general, then we most likely would have already secured a lynch. Yet it is still hard to secure a lynch, no matter the direction we go in (Porkens taken to L-1 at the furthest but very briefly, Votato/Dunn to L-2 and now Geraintm finally to L-2). Note that I was on every single one of the wagons I believe when they were at their peak, so assuming others think I am town trying to pressure/see how others react to different wagons, then it makes perfect sense that there are one if not more passive scumplayers that are not taking an active part in pushing things in a specific direction.

It's not hard to secure a lynch when scum is actively helping, especially if every single one of them are in some way. By the feel of things alone, this suggests to me that there is definitely a passive scum member somewhere to be found.

Why cant scum take the middle road route (which is realtively normal scum play) and only be active enough to balance influencing the gamestate and not over commiting? Especially if dunn was town and slash or GC/pork was a TvT which plays into their agenda.

That's what im confused about. You think GC/Pork contains one scum. GC then applied a counter to the pork wagon by finding it townie he claimed VT. You still think as of last page GC is likely the scum there. Which indicates to me that you think scum!GC actively diverted pressure from the pork/GC fight yet that's not what you claim with the inactive theory.

From your theory, are ignoring scum potentially trying to save a partner as well; a situation that would invoke scum to purposely NOT secure a lynch.

(Also I think 4-5 days have actually been added to the timer)

[HK 50]

HK50, Geraintm is against claiming in general though, so it would not make any sense for him to claim given the stance he took against me earlier in the game. Him claiming PR would be sketchy af given that stance.

We have one day left in this day phase and about 5 hours, which means

@Porkens: it is really important that you claim in your next post so that if your role is important to us that are town, we can keep you and have more time to make a well-informed decision to move elsewhere.

I hate cdemands for claims like this. it never seems to help. if it is scum, they can flush out someone else or else send town onto a wild lynch chase that won't go anywhere good. if it is town...how is getting them to claim and out themselves going to help?

He wants no claims at all -- that was what he was trying to promote.

If scum and we implement this plan as town, this plan would provide scum an opportunity to lynch power roles without them even claiming.

That, and scum does not want to be forced into a role claim, naturally because they are scum.

Oh I forgot about that quote and missed when reading through his ISO.

I concede it's an NAI point now in regards to lack of claiming

[HK 50]

Robutt, please vote Porkens

Kiss my shiney metal ass.

[stungun0404]

Yeah, but look at my proposed scum team:

Gera, HK, GC/pork (one of them)

Gera is passive. You have been somewhat passive. OTOH, GC has been active. Porkens/BM slot? Somewhat passive somewhat active --> somewhere in the middle.

There could be one active scum, maybe even two, but I am very convicted against all 3 having been active. I am favoring one being active at the moment.

[HK 50]

Dude pork is not even near the top lol. Why are you trying to move me there?

Pedit: I still think it's assumption based even when factoring town's inability at times to mobilize lynches.

Honestly though it's a theory until a scum flip comes out. Assuming neither of us die tomorrow (mafia you know you want to nightkill me), we can argue more about it.

I'm in a hard spot here decision wise.

[stungun0404]

4 hours, 28 minutes to deadline.

[HK 50]

On one vicegrip, I can get behind germ bandwagon. I see suspicious stuff that has started to cross over the border of bored townie/anti Day 1 beleiver.

On the other, the wagon composition is bad as pointed out. Yes stungun is there, but I can suspend my suspicions for a moment. I'm more alarmed that all three counter wagons (pork/dunn/votato) all jumped to that wagon pushing it to L-2.