Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Clover Ebi]

Are you close to unvoting me yet Lilith? This is starting to get a bit stale to me! But, if the answer is no I will argue until you heart is content and I am in your town pool.
pedit: Mostly timing. Dunn did it first and yes exactly what you're saying

[Clover Ebi]

CURSE YOU PAGE TOP

[lilith2013]

How do I say this properly...

Lilith I looked at your back and forth with Dunn and I think you're a bit tunneled/focused on him too much. Like, if Dunn is scum I doubt a lot of the reasons you're calling him scum went through his head and was an action he decided to consciously take as scum. That's just, so much early game when really it isn't needed at all.

am i tunneled/focused on dunn too much?

I looked at your iso again and it seems very reasonable/open. You're talking to others and taking other angles that don't involve Dunn. I don't think you're tunneled atm.
@Midway Wah? Huh? I just like the emojis!

Clover, can you point out which skitter posts you read that included "talking to others and taking other angles that didn't involve dunn" up to this point? And then also explain why you didn't count anything I said about votato? I think I interacted with votato a similar amount and with the same "anger" or attitude or whatever you want to call it as I did with Dunn, so what was it about my interactions with votato vs my interactions with Dunn that felt different to you such that you felt like I was tunneling Dunn but not votato?

I feel like with this post and your next that you were trying to retroactively justify why you called me out and not skitter for "tunneling" dunn.

In regards to Votato to me your tone seemed quite different compared to Dunnstral or at least that's how I took it. Why I didn't say anything about Votato from you is...I can't really remember. I just know when I was looking at your iso and skitters side by side and the way you guys were both interacting with Dunnstral that it felt very different. Like:

Spoiler: Quotes here

I don’t think “it would be a bad play” is a good reason to say someone isn’t scum. Scum don’t always play optimally.

which is why my vote is still there. do we wanna talk about your naked vote or how you're playing both sides here?

You said he’s most likely town though. I don’t like that you’re still voting him even after you defended him.

All you did was naked vote so. And yesthat is what I was arguing, I said cheery instead though.

Skktter it's ai because It's a fake persona

You’re arguing that it’s fake, I don’t think that’s what I was trying to get at at all.

i dunno. anti-town play most often comes from town. but i suppose dunns play wasnt really anti-town. i just see that sort of bad push coming more often from overzealous town trying to get day 1 moving than from scum pushing a mislynch. if dunn is scum then im tempted to say skitter is also scum and this was a distancing play.

But why are you still voting him then?

I see your logic and even if I don’t agree with it, I can understand it - but keeping your vote on him after you’ve put forth this logic makes 0 sense

OK. Why are you voting me?

I think you're overestimating how much attention I should have been paying attention to you

Yet you paid attention to me by shading my vote and then picking a fight over what I said about skitter, so...

Exactly how much attention weren’t you paying?

Feel pretty night and day to me. Maybe that wasn't your intent but that was how I took it. Also, if I was trying to correct myself as scum I don't think I would've taken half measures like this, but then again I don't think I would've taken this angle to begin with but that's going down a path you probably don't care for.

Why are you hard townreading beeboy?

Yeah I've said I respond with attitude/sass whatever according to the post I'm replying to (or maybe not in so many words, but this is what I meant)

votato's post towards me seemed to be in good faith, so I gave him the courtesy of responding in kind - but when he was snarky at me, I was snarky right back.

Same goes for my interaction with Dunn, except Dunn kept being snarky to me so I kept being snarky to him.

[lilith2013]

as I was catching up on the thread, I'd have a thought and then beeboy would say my thought in his next post, which is pretty creepy but I think it's a good sign that his thought processes are town thought processes

[lilith2013]

Also I kind of think the opposite of what Tux said about him happened - beeboy dove straight into the conversation about Dunn as well as the interactions between me and votato, and tried to engage directly with us in real time. I think scum would be more likely to take more of an arms' length approach to wagons and interactions not involving them

[lilith2013]

Are you close to unvoting me yet Lilith? This is starting to get a bit stale to me! But, if the answer is no I will argue until you heart is content and I am in your town pool.
pedit: Mostly timing. Dunn did it first and yes exactly what you're saying

I'm still rereading, I'm not sure yet

[lilith2013]

im getting weird vibes

was there gonna be any followup to this

I'd also like to hear what you were getting weird vibes about and why

[lilith2013]

i think beeboy is townie
i'm having gutscumpings on nahdia rn

saaaame

[lilith2013]

This would be the play, find a hole then build a read around the hole you saw.

could you answer this please:

Why is there a 25 minute gap between your initial read and the elaboration to it without new information?

Basically what I am getting at is your retroactively justifying a read based on my thread opening.

do you think the elaboration was due to your/votato's reaction to the original post?

was kinda hoping someone would react to my first post but i guess you all just don't care about me. i see how it is.

just gonna say this from the top and maybe ill do better sticking to it: im going to be making an effort to limit the hours in which im an active participant in this game. i enjoy mafia a lot but i also find it exhausting when im constantly thinking about it which leads to apathy. please do me a big favor and yell at me if you notice im posting in the thread all throughout the day. i will be happier and honestly probably better/more engaged in this game if i can practice a little restraint.

why share this? i understand the logic of holding yourself to that but do you have an expectation of others actually discouraging you from posting throughout the day?

additionally, what sort of reactions were you hoping for?

How did the responses to these questions help you sort beeboy and nahdia (or how did you hope the responses would help with sorting them when you asked the questions)?

[lilith2013]

Hmm, I just don't know how else to express it. Like if you reread the game in context the wagon is forming on Dunn on page 1, and they aren't RVS votes. Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote. They post again at the end of page 3, only to reintroduce their entrance post. Content doesn't come from them till page 4. It's just so weird like he is there watching the game unfold but not commenting on anything, while the game seemed clearly passed RVS.

Besides all that.
I have town pings from MT, Lilith, and Kanna.

Votato and Nahdia aren't sitting right with me.

Weird that you still don't have a read on Dunn...

[lilith2013]

I think it's hard to articulate why this kind of defense feels so off to me - but basically I feel like this is the kind of defense I'd try to make as scum, where I'm trying to stop a wagon but I don't really give AI reasons that someone shouldn't be wagoned (maybe you remember [redacted]?). Clover's appealing to me to "tunnel less" (when I don't think I'm tunneling at all...) instead of trying to convince me why Dunnstral's town. Also I think "that's so much early game when really it isn't needed at all" is also a horrible argument for why someone wouldn't be scum, along the same lines as "that'd be a bad play as scum."

To sum up, I just feel parallels between that post and a post I would make as scum trying to derail a wagon.

Well Lilith, the thing is I am not you and what you would do as scum is probably much different than what I would do as scum. Otherwise the game would be down to a science no? Plus the whole base of your point is wrong to begin with!

? I'm using what I think I would do as scum as a frame of reference for what I expect other people to do as scum. Obviously everyone's different but I can see parallels between the motivations behind your post and what I've felt when I played scum.

What do you mean by "the whole base of my point is wrong"?

I do feel like you were tunneling on Dunnstral maybe you don’t, but those are my feelings on the matter. I already explained in my post on skitter about that. Why do you think that’s scummy though? Plus, I did explain why I think Dunnstral is towny you just didn’t like the reason/think it was AI. Of course, I could give you more reasons on why Dunnstral is towny beside his early game posts but that’d be a lie. I don’t have anything else to really base it on. I think his content is fine, but to say it’s super towny besides what I’ve said would be false.

I think that's just it - you were trying to convince me that he was town but you couldn't give me any reasons why he was town.

I think I've addressed the tunneling/tone thing in a post on this page - fairly sure I reacted with the same tone to votato at one point. How did that come across as tunneling to you?

re: "seeming quite angry" I think you'll find that's just how I react to people trying to snark at me?
What reasons do you think I'm making up to support scumreading dunnstral? and if so, why are you townreading me?

Are you trying to say that you're not angry/being sassy in return to him? Because that's how I'm taking it and normally when someone is angry they want someone to be scum so normally points that wouldn't be scummy you look at as scummy. (hence tunneling) For example:

You're really hanging onto that 'he shaded my vote' huh

I don’t think it comes from a town mindset to see a naked vote and not ask why. I think it can come from a scum mindset to see a naked vote and try to shade me to make my vote seem less credible, without actually asking me to expound on my vote.

I could say the same for you on the whole “fake persona” thing

This post for example is just trying to find scummy things that aren't really scummy to begin with imo. The naked vote thing for example happens by...just a lot of people normally. It's not really a thing and Dunnstral doing that doesn't really prove much one way or the other.

I clearly admitted that I was being sassy in return? Sure, I'll admit that I could be confbiasing but that's not at all what you said in your first post when you tried to get me to stop pushing him. However I think this might be a language barrier issue? Because the phrase "making up reasons" sounded like you were saying I was fabricating reasons, but based on this post it seems like what you actually mean is that I'm seeing everything as scummy even if it's not necessarily as scummy because of my bias.

Now then! I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. What's your read on: Nahdia/Tux if any. How do you feel about Tux vs Beeboy

should be fairly clear what my stances are on them from my catchup posts - let me know if any are unclear

[lilith2013]

clover did the thing where he assumed people were town. he's commented on other people's gamesolving, but hasnt actually done any himself. he also sheeped onto your wagon pretty opportunistically. overall theres nothing townie about the slot but a few things that strike me as off. he said he wants to "explore you" a bit more, but hasnt done anything to explore you or prod you or anything. hes just kinda floating by.

I know I've already asked this but I will again: What's wrong with assuming people are town? Let's just ignore the fact that is my playstyle and let me just ask what the issue with that is. Yes, I am assuming people I am townreading are town. Also I feel like I've been game solving plenty! Maybe not as fast paced but it would be a lie to say I'm not trying to solve

When you talked to me/about Dunn, it came across like you

knew

we were both town and were kind of slipping that you had that knowledge.

[lilith2013]

I'm mind melding with tux on his other reads and that is bothering me a lot. Outside Nahdia I think their push on me is realistic but wrong, their opening matches a 1 note DM where we agreed our old playstyle were overwelming. Neither of which make Nahdia town but they both justify what they have done.

But we both agree Kanna and MT are playing like town and we both are getting pings from Votato without overly getting a scum read. And we have similar meta pools on all 3 players. Albeit I could be giving Kanna needless space due to noughts and crosses and I may just get slapped one day because of that.

Why is it bothering you? Are you no longer scumreading Tux because his reads line up with yours?

[lilith2013]

for example, see midways above post. he agrees with my thinking, but the part of his post where he does his own evaluation is based on a post that i hardly see as AI, and is to me far less AI than other posts tux made. id scumread most people for that sort of post. but with midway, ??

Wow I might actually be townleaning votato????

[Clover Ebi]

Ah I'm getting flashbacks to last game. Let me grab some coffee

[lilith2013]

@mod I really appreciate that you edit the pagetop on every page with a link to the VC on that page

[lilith2013]

Ah I'm getting flashbacks to last game. Let me grab some coffee

How so?

[votato]

for example, see midways above post. he agrees with my thinking, but the part of his post where he does his own evaluation is based on a post that i hardly see as AI, and is to me far less AI than other posts tux made. id scumread most people for that sort of post. but with midway, ??

Wow I might actually be townleaning votato????

ok, lilith must be scum if shes townreading me.

[lilith2013]

?

[votato]

:
^
)

[lilith2013]

are you scumreading me seriously or is this just a shitpush

[lilith2013]

If the former - I think anyone who's played with scum!me (especially you) should recognize this is pretty far out of my scumrange. If the latter, I can pretend I'm still scumreading you if you want.

[Clover Ebi]

Yeah I've said I respond with attitude/sass whatever according to the post I'm replying to (or maybe not in so many words, but this is what I meant)

votato's post towards me seemed to be in good faith, so I gave him the courtesy of responding in kind - but when he was snarky at me, I was snarky right back.

Same goes for my interaction with Dunn, except Dunn kept being snarky to me so I kept being snarky to him.

I see, I can somewhat understand where you’re coming from now/how you play a bit. But without me knowing I felt like that was anger and the way you were responding/people who get angry normally tend to tunnel and find things that normally wouldn’t be scum AI scummy. However I feel like I’ve said this like three times now and it’s like beating a dead horse.

I think that's just it - you were trying to convince me that he was town but you couldn't give me any reasons why he was town.

The reason your point was wrong plus this is I did give reasons why Dunn was town. His early game. You just didn’t like that or thought I had more when really I didn’t. Those were the points I had for him being town at the time and I felt you were just...wanting more?

I clearly admitted that I was being sassy in return? Sure, I'll admit that I could be confbiasing but that's not at all what you said in your first post when you tried to get me to stop pushing him. However I think this might be a language barrier issue? Because the phrase "making up reasons" sounded like you were saying I was fabricating reasons, but based on this post it seems like what you actually mean is that I'm seeing everything as scummy even if it's not necessarily as scummy because of my bias.

Yes this is what I was trying to say, sorry if it wasn’t clear. Wording and how to properly put all my thoughts on paper/in a post can be hard at times. I’d have to go back and look at my original post in question to further comment.

When you talked to me/about Dunn, it came across like you knew we were both town and were kind of slipping that you had that knowledge.

Hm, well I can’t say much about this. I get it’s just an assumption but you’ll just have to trust I was talking in confidence not that I knew he was town.

Ah I'm getting flashbacks to last game. Let me grab some coffee

How so?

I was into a spat with someone before in a TVT fight and I was just getting flashbacks. I was even using it as my frame of reference for Votato’s push on me. Although that might be a bit unfair

[votato]

are you scumreading me seriously or is this just a shitpush

im not really scumreading you. im not sure what to make of you, i cant decide whether you should be in my PoE or not. your recent posts suggest town. but ive been fooled by your posting before. so again, im not trying to really push you here. ill sort you later.

[votato]

oh my last couple posts were a shitpost.