That means your buddy has been posting since we began this discussion?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1850, Looker wrote:I don't understand Dunnstral's request to self-meta. When I'm scum I'm scum and when I'm town I'm town.
Your playstyle in this game is similar to our last game I saw you in, where you were mafia
Looker, you ask why I'm wondering about this, right? I can't differentiate your current play from the game you were mafia in.
What I'm saying to you is that, until you say "I've looked at games where you were town and games where you were scum, and this game most closely resembles the games wherein you were scum", I don't find your observation useful.
In post 1880, Glitch wrote:Scum knew they weren't on Blair's radar so they let her live to kill off more town. Blair isn't a logical target for scum until she starts to get on their trail.
That just means we need to dive deep into some back pages and make sure we nail it right because this next lynch can easily land us in some rough town/scum ratios.
Need to go back and re-read some previous content. I have friends over right now but will get on this later tonight.
So, by this logic, should we flip who Blair thinks is town?
In post 1760, Glitch wrote:
If you're actually a mason you wouldn't even think of outing your partner unless you absolutely had to. But I think it's clear that if you have a partner it's probably scum. And if you out your partner and we lynch you thinking you're both scum and we're wrong, then at least you're PL'd and we'll confirm your mason buddy.
VOTE: Truth
In post 717, Nauci wrote:Glitch, Truth is definitely not making it near LYLO so why don't you just focus on everybody else for now?
In post 421, Looker wrote:Simple - a mason claim is self-resolving: Truth should die tonight or get lynched tomorrow. I'm not fond of people hijacking my attention as a form of distraction. There are still 11 other people that I have to go through.
In post 299, Glitch wrote:
If it's a neighborhood it must strictly be with candyshop/blair because that's the only way it hasn't been outed yet.
So he's either mason or mafia. He isn't be the hang today, so I'm not gonna give further comment until it's a day we could realistically hang him
I believe the above posts indicate that the players are not masons with Truth.
Blair is the vig, I doubt she's a mason
I'm not a mason.
Truth is lying about his claim.
Blair is claiming vig with no counterclaims in a closed setup. It's not mechanically confirmed, but I can let it slide.
Truth claimed mason with no buddy to back him up and wasn't on the popopo wagon. Who is Truth's scumpartner? If I'm already voting Nauci, why wouldn't he jump on the wagon?
I have to take it that it's group consensus that Norway was killed by scum and LicketyQuick by vig?
If Blair thought I was being inauthentic, why didn't she call me out 6-7 pages ago?
I find it suspicious how Nauci is avoiding Truth. If Blair's not scum, then that moves Dunnstral up for me.
I don't really enjoy the confusion, but we'll see what happens.
Spoiler:
41% Nauci | 25% Truth | 16% Blair or Dunnstral | 14% Glitch | 4% NDMath
Your reads sound like you are not Truth's neighbor/mason. Is that correct?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
Taking that as a "I'm not masons or neighbors with Truth" post then because there's no way you read that conversation we were having about it and didn't speak up about it if you are.
@Truth
Who is your Mason partner?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
I can't copy-paste so I will have to explain it in my words. My buddy does not want to claim today and is telling me to ask you all to wait one more day. They don't see a beneficial reason to claim today and think it's fine to got into tomorrow without claiming because they think mafia have no idea who they are.
They also think Blair should claim her vigilante target before ending the day, and if it is them, they will claim in that case.
You haven't been nearly townie enough to warrant waiting to resolve you until endgame. Who is your partner?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
I'm starting to think Truth's Mason buddy is just Truth talking to a mirror.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
It has a lot to do with how confident you are that there will be at least one scum between Truth and [other person you would choose].
If you're 100% confident that at least one would be scum, then the oder becomes immaterial.
Otherwise, we have to consider the possibility that they are both town - in which case voting one out today and shooting the other tonight would lose us the game.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
In post 1936, Blair wrote:It has a lot to do with how confident you are that there will be at least one scum between Truth and [other person you would choose].
If you're 100% confident that at least one would be scum, then the oder becomes immaterial.
Otherwise, we have to consider the possibility that they are both town - in which case voting one out today and shooting the other tonight would lose us the game.
I am using the premise here that Truth is 100% scum, but the other person we may want dead is not–in which case I am wondering if we want to find out the one we are unsure about first, and then shooting truth in order to maximally narrow down POE and not waste what is likely your last vig shot.
I think you probably want to resolve the stronger scumread first because if today's flip is town then I probably don't want to shoot at all.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
I think it's probably fair to assume one scum would have bussed (how often do you NOT see one bus when scum fake claims a known town role?)
It is also probably fair to assume one scum was off the wagon (since Popo self-hammered)
I have lower confidence in the latter but it's still more likely than not.
The question for the on-wagon group is: Do you think scum bussed early and vote parked (Looker) or jumped on after the counterclaim (Dunnstral)?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
I went back and did some re-reading and some digging, and the best place I knew to start after my re-read of yesterday was to check out each player's relationship with popo. Let me case each player out:
These are strange posts if you were Vig this whole time.
In post 1683, Blair wrote:Vigilantes don't usually counter claim (unless they've used all their shots), they just shoot the fake claim the next night - so we may not find out today if Popo is telling the truth.
I think the right move here is for us to collectively decide who Popo should shoot tonight. This effectively gives us two lynches today - unless he's lying, in which case the real vigilante will shoot him.
Of course scum could just shoot the same person or no kill, but there's no real utility in them doing that just to lynch Popo when they could have just nightkilled him instead.
In post 1678, Blair wrote:Also: Why use one of your two shots on Night 1?
I'm a vig i shoot
I mean, you pretty heavily implied you thought it was dumb for a vig to shoot night 1 when you entered the thread today complaining about it?
Have you ever rolled Vigilante before?
In post 1796, Blair wrote:I don't think I really need to sell this any more, but in case there was any doubt - ask yourself, which of these two posts sounds more like the mindset of a town Vigilante being counterclaimed?
In post 1793, Blair wrote:There is a 0% chance of two Vigilantes in this setup, especially when one of them claimed VT until a Gunsmith outed them and then switched to Vigilante and claimed responsibility for the exact same shot I took.
I'm 100% certain Popopo is scum. Popopo, on the other hand, is busy setting himself up for my eventual town flip.
In post 1788, Blair wrote:I think this has gone on long enough. Every living player has weighed in now so we will have plenty to go off when the truth comes out (and a couple of people seem to have TMI, so that's a thing).
I am the Vigilante.
I shot CSF as a PoE shot because she was the runner-up wagon yesterday and several players indicated if osuka flipped town they would suspect her today.
Two players appear to have TMI:
Truth - Seems to know Popopo is not the Vigilante (yet isn't voting for him) and openly speculated that I, specifically, could be the Vigilante.
LicketyQuickety - Seemed to enter the day dead-set on arguing there was a Serial Killer in the setup. An argument he attempted to force even after being directly contradicted by the mod, and (strikingly) even after Popopo claimed 2-shot Vigilante. Why double down on the idea of an unlimited shot killing role after an uncountered 2-shot claim? Did LQ know the Vigilante wasn't really 2-shot? If so, how?
VOTE: Popopo
In post 1852, Blair wrote:Welcome back, Looker. Popopo is lying scum, I'm the Vigilante, and Quick is pushing a counterwagon due to my... *checks scribbles on hand* personality?
You were scum in the other game I played with you and the non-vote tag thingy osuka pointed out. (Was gonna vote you in non-vote tags but that seemed like it would be the type of thing that would be hilarious to me and no one else.)
In post 551, mavsfan41 wrote:GL has some solid posts I read as town, but that Popopo progression after going after Norwegian just feels off to me. Popopo’s sheeping of Norwegian is problematic as an easy cop out for votes with no motive, but I can’t help but think that makes him too easy of a mislynch target. To link Norwegian/Popopo I think it’s far too facile to link Norwegian/Popopo as a scum team.
In post 553, mavsfan41 wrote:@popopo: your 536 post. Your response to GL is bad. Please do better. In 430, you voice some frustration with Looker. Wouldn’t that have been a been a better place to vote? I see your shtik of sheep’ing Norwegian, but don’t you think there’s a scenario where that’s very problematic for town?
In post 626, mavsfan41 wrote:@Popopo: as for your read list. So I’m scummy for moving my RVS to a player I’m now reading as scum? That coincided with my catchup and not your post prodding me. Also, if you have Cat Scratch Fever as your top SR, you see how voting with Norwegian is problematic right? I hope you don’t blindly follow his votes for too much longer. Despite what Norwegian’s response was in 621, I FULLY support Looker’s 620 (not only the thing about your voting habits but also the thing about Truth too).
Note: 620 that mavs is supporting here is a statement that the "vote slave" nonsense can't go on forever.
In post 732, mavsfan41 wrote:Can someone give me the case against Popopo? I read Glitch’s 710 which is details a case for Popopo all in one place, so thanks for that. But reading why people have voted Popopo, i get the idea that it’s just a D1 policy lynch (I’m okay with a D1 PL) for sheep’ing Norwegian?
In post 1738, Dunnstral wrote:Let vig shoot at popopo if he's fake claiming. And if he's not shot we know he's vig
In post 1757, Dunnstral wrote:nah if popo is mafia and is faking being vig then the real vig is going to shoot him
I don't think we can in good faith lynch popo today without somebody else counterclaiming vig, which is not necessary if he's scum and won't happen if he's town
In post 481, Glitch wrote:I think pressure on Truth, popopo, and looker right now would be much more productive than continuing a squabble with NB. I also think if we can look through NB's attitude, that he's got some solid content (150, 186, 340).
In post 439, GuiltyLion wrote:The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:
You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!
VOTE: popopopopopo
This post claiming issues with my vote is leaving out the VITAL fact that I am norwe's vote slave. In doing that, he completely misrepresented my supposed reasoning for switching votes. The push feels fake and based off a misrep. Norwe was cranking the pressure up pretty hard my man guilty needed a release.
Okay so now is the time to just stop with this whole vote slave bullshit. Start voting according to actual suspicions you have and not ones that are just spoon fed to you by your vote master. It is pro-town for us to get legitimate, un-tinted reads on you, not skewed and mixed up reads because we're trying to decipher between what's your genuine read on someone vs your vote master's read. Besides, if you're openly just casting votes to build up wagon numbers then the power of a wagon on someone is weakened. We have to maintain the pressure of a wagon and not sabotage one of our tools for getting scum to out themselves. Wagon people but don't defeat your own vote's power by publicizing, "I'm just following the leader with my vote to put people under more pressure." This is a variation of the exact conversation I had with Truth in my previous 2 posts.
He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.
i mean who tf knows with this guy. He wants to nolynch, then he wants to quick lynch. Idk his alignment but certified VI
Can you actually make an effort rather than just being like "Omg Idk I just know you suck?" What would your reads be on him if he hadn't claimed mason? What are your thoughts on if he is the scum in a hood?
In post 555, popopopopopopo wrote:i owe norwe big, more than owe him im in debt to him. the reactions i am getting for this schtick also has been and will continue to be fruitful
When will you have to pick between loyalty to Norway or to this town and get off the fence? How long do you intend to continue this? We have a lot of discussion on your vote slave ordeal to discuss, now can you stop so we can get a different perspective to read you? [...]
Scum lean on popopo for everything at the top of this post
Scum read still on Truth for literally every post he's made [...]
tl;dr version: VOTE: popopopopo because I'm not down with a GL wagon until I go back and re-read, and popopo's defense has been shit basically just saying he owes Norway and he's doing it for reactions to talk about. Popopopopo can you stop being vague and irrational about when you'll stop voting with norway, and answer my questions above in response to your 555? It could very well be that you're scum trying to use this vote slave bullshit as a way to fly under everyone else's radar, and when it didn't work, the best way for you to push through a wagon on yourself is to stick to your guns and look like you've just been doing it for 1)loyalty to Norway, 2)scumhunting by getting reactions, or 3)shits and giggles all along. Pushing all this would be a great guise for scum except that you're twisted up in your own net and haven't been able to fly low.
And if that wasn't your plan, then your plan could have been to rile up all this nonsense and look so bold no one would think scum would do something so risky. Idk which way it goes, but each way I see at the moment looks messy unless you can just give us some original thoughts and original votes that aren't based on Norway and then we can get some un-tainted reads on you.
In post 843, LicketyQuickety wrote:Glitch's content has been objectively bad not really offering any new insights, and generally just jumping on the next popular wagon.
A good wagon is great, it gets results. You don't have to like that I jumped on the popo wagon despite explaining a solid case why. And it's understandable if the fact that I voted po pisses you off because it doesn't help you read me and my slot more. But it does help us read po and his slot more which is important too. We have time right now and I'm not so much concerned with getting you to hardcore TR me based on my vote record (or I wouldn't have jumped on popo and I definitely would never have gone after Truth), but more with getting reactions, breakdowns, thoughts, and high pressure situations laid out across the board.
I pushed Truth so much that he literally refused to answer any more of my questions. Reaction. Content to eval. I haven’t had time to do an ISO of popo in the past day or two but I am confident enough in his scum vibes that putting him at 4 votes was a good call, and once I finish reading through some of this game again I’ll be able to focus on more than just popo and Truth when I can get some sturdier reads. I’ll have more thoughts tomorrow. Still reading previous pages right now and trying to get through some of these 1v1s in the thread.
In post 1090, Glitch wrote:I still have a scum lean on po but when the push against him from the group seemed to dissipate and the desire to lynch disappeared from the town, it was time to move my vote to somewhere it can be used elsewhere to do more. I also have been working through a re-read of the game the last few days and that's where my updated SRs came from. I'm a big fan of wagons and think it's lazy playing to target people because they jump on a wagon. If you jump on a wagon without giving good and solid reasons or just paraphrasing what someone else said then sure, that's fine to make you raise an eyebrow. But pressure gives results and I like to push and build wagons. And I'll give you my honest thoughts in the process. If you scum read me for it, that's fine, that just gives more data for us to eval when you push me for pushing someone else.
In post 1643, Glitch wrote:lmao
If scum was the cop's vote slave that'll be rich. I'm trusting Norway as one of my stronger TRs.
VOTE: popo
If he flips town we kill the Norwegian.
If he flips scum we should zoom in on Blair who has said nothing useful about popo literally at all, and Nauci because she has only defended him
I think it'd be easier if you just voted me instead of pretending to scumhunt.
In post 445, GuiltyLion wrote:here's my "taking a look at the whole game" reads for Norwegian:
Townies: CSF, Nauci, Lickety, Candy Shop
don't feel like voting today but maybe a scum: Looker, osuka
has not played the game yet: rozyroz
self-resolving: Truth
could see myself voting today: mavsfan, glitch
one of these two is scum: Norway, popopopopoppopopoopp
p-edit: What am I misdirecting away from? I replied directly to the latest two people that voted me
Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever /
rozyroz
NDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci
In post 544, Looker wrote:Do you really feel telegraphed sheeping is enough to prove you're town? If you were to flip town, would you want us to lynch GuiltyLion next?
when did i suggest it proves that im town? all i said was his vote left out the KEY fact that i am norwes vote slave atm, which make the dissonance suggested in his accusation obviously false.
My question is how long will this shtick go on? "Norway told me" isn't going to be a valid excuse.
In post 860, Nauci wrote:@looker you seem to have stopped interesting with GL and have been suspecting other players since your vote. Has your read on him changed since then, or is he still your top scum read?
In post 1672, popopopopopopo wrote:I am the vig I shot cat scratch. I knew it was a non legit guilty because I am town, so I fake claimed vt because I knew its a fake guilty. I didnt consider gunsmith in that decision and that's me being dumb.
In post 1502, Looker wrote:Lynch preferences are: 22% GuiltyLion | 19% Blair or mavsfan41 | 14% popopo or osuka | 12% NDMath | 11% LicketyQuickety | 8% Glitch or NorwegianboyEE | 7% Cat Scratch Fever | 4% Truth | 3% Nauci
Osuka's dead and this moves popopo up
[/quote]
Spoiler: Nauci and Po
In post 393, Nauci wrote:Currently I'm struggling with the dynamic between him [Norway] and popopopopo
Like... Should I consider it suspicious that they just entered into a vote-slave pact on the spot without questioning each other for it or is this some typical NAI shenanigans? I'm entirely puzzled by it and also puzzled by the lack of commentary on it. In light of the stuff that pinged you about Norwegian, what do you think?
In post 401, Nauci wrote:Do you think their vote pact is something 2 scum would do together?
In post 411, Nauci wrote:I just found it odd that popopopopo immediately accepted the voting alliance without questioning, and that this in turn was accepted without questioning. It felt alignment indicative to me but I couldn't fathom in which direction without doing some heavy meta lifting
In post 439, GuiltyLion wrote:The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:
You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!
VOTE: popopopopopo
I kept waiting for him to follow up that comment on me but it never happened so I assumed it was a sort of scum-testing-the-waters thing
But I also made a lot more content between then and now
In post 612, Nauci wrote:I am currently somewhat lost in this game because I do think popopopopo's past few pages are towny
In post 439, GuiltyLion wrote:The other thing I don't like about popoppopoopoppopo's vote:
You previously said Nauci was "forced as fuck" and were voting her. Then she quotes one, yes ONE, post of mine she doesn't like, and votes me, and your response is to put me at L-2 with no hesitation? Did your read on Nauci change? Do you think she just decided to lolbus me cause Norway wants to play like he's some RVS god, even though I later linked a game where I opened the exact same way as town? It seems pretty dissonant to me!
VOTE: popopopopopo
This post claiming issues with my vote is leaving out the VITAL fact that I am norwe's vote slave. In doing that, he completely misrepresented my supposed reasoning for switching votes. The push feels fake and based off a misrep. Norwe was cranking the pressure up pretty hard my man guilty needed a release.
He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.
i mean who tf knows with this guy. He wants to nolynch, then he wants to quick lynch. Idk his alignment but certified VI
I agree with everything here.
VOTE: popopo
This was quick vote on me i fucked up the tags
I've only played with quikc town. in those games he was prone to crackpot theories, unorthodox pushes like he was going at truth with. BUT This vote is very weak especially after all his other interactions he hops on me with GL because of GLs bad and misrepping post.
Lol ill be phone posting all weekend but look at this dudes iso its all townreads and then a naked hop on me. Could be the worst vote on my wagon. This guy is straight cruising and found an easy spot to park his vote but I ain't mislynch bait like that bro.
In post 554, popopopopopopo wrote:LicketyQuickety - town lean his vote on me was bad but quick likes an illogical bad push as much as anyone so it doesnt surprise me he voted me. his incessant pushing on truth early feels town motivated coming from this particular player.
NorwegianboyEE - town lean i explained already
Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree
osuka - null town feels like a saudade type player where he just calls people retards and argues. hard to read, but the argument with truth seemed genuine enough
Truth - any read i have is irrelevant, mechanics will sort. im more inclined to believe the claim than not.
Glitch - null seems like a noob. i find this type of player hard to sort. at least looks like hes trying.
Nauci - null his early posts pinged me as forced, he has been posting more thoughtfully since.
Candy Shop - null dont really have an impression of this slot, this is the NL guy right? ok i checked his ISO. idk
ndmath - null no impression of this slot
mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look
GuiltyLion - scum lean i explained
Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game
In post 554, popopopopopopo wrote:
Looker - town lean responded well to my request for reads even if we dont completely agree
Are you talking about this?
In post 492, Looker wrote:Most informational flip: GuiltyLion
Secondary options: LicketyQuickety / NorwegianboyEE
Gray Area/Reasons I'm not ready to end the day: Glitch / Candy Shop / Mavsfan / Cat Scratch Fever / rozyrozNDMath / Osuka
Comfortable with delaying inspection: Truth / popopopo / Nauci
Looker didn't even give reads - he just said which slots were good info lynches?
yes thats what I was talking about.
mavsfan41 - null-scum him coming in with a vote immediately after i call him out is not a good look
Why is this weird? He said he was in the middle of catching up earlier.
the timing is suspicious. It could also be a coincidence i grant u.
Cat Scratch Fever - scummy his vote was opportunistic and his iso has been bad, handing out townreads like candy and little scumreads is mafia indicative especially early game
Which townreads do you disagree with?
Its less about me disagreeing with them that it is the way you hand them out.
Cat scratch leans town on quick and nauci, then he semi- walks back the nauci read after a light prod by norwe (203). Then he town reads norwe and osuka, and hops on guilty for no real reason
I'm townreading Norway and I think osuka is townish. Still think Quick is prob town but he seems to have trouble getting his point across
VOTE: guiltylion
Notice he doesnt call guilty scum here. Doesn't really provide a reason for his vote at all.
In fact cat scratch never calls GL scum, except he does post this
In post 276, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:I think Quick and Osuka are TvT right now, and this back and forth is rapidly growing tiring to follow. Why don't we all hug it out and vote GuiltyLion or something
So here there is a push for more votes on guilty. He's never called guilty even scummy tho? But he's voted for him and called for others to vote him. Then he votes for me, with no explanation of either his original guilty read or his new vote on me. He provided a reason for the vote on me when I pressed him.
I'd vote cat but guilty is likely his partner so ill stick with nii chan for now
In post 559, popopopopopopo wrote:BTW cats vote on me was sheeping GLs attack on me after already voting for GL and calling for others to vote there. A bizarre turnaround.
In post 564, popopopopopopo wrote:So GL OMGUSd me and started a counter wagon to deflect attention and his partner cat hopped on innocuously a couple votes in?
Sometimes its just that easy
In post 680, popopopopopopo wrote:after sleeping on it and the last back and forth im not as confident on the GL/cat scratch scumteam. Scratch is scummy independently though, his early play was intentionally inoffensive and his hop on my wagon was very bad.
In post 690, popopopopopopo wrote:I still think lions push one me is bad, but his aw shucks demeanor and trying to see things from norwes POV make me feel less strongly about it. I'd like more votes on cat his iso pre voting me is very poor as I've laid out.
Considering how all of these posts from popopopopo talk about why he scumreads CSF, I don't think I buy that you genuinely think it was exclusively because he thought that voteslaving would get him lynched that he voted elsewhere, Glitch.
Spoiler: NDmath and Po
In post 722, NDMath wrote:Reads Tiered:
Norwee
osuka quick
popo catscratch looker mavs
Glitch nauci
Candyshop
Lion
In post 1320, NDMath wrote:Towniest
Quick Norwee
Looker
Catscratch
Mavs popo nauci --null
osuka Blair
Guilty Glitch
He feels like he doesn't care. I also saw some reasons from tiger cat that I liked.
In post 489, Truth wrote:I have no clues or leads, but I have bad feelings from popopopopopopopopo because he feels like he doesn't care. I think mafia have less to care about, because they're okay with anyone that's town being lynched.
In post 502, Truth wrote:Should we quickly lynch popopopopopopopopo and go into night? I don't we'll get a better suspect than this and it may be good to go to the night without giving mafia any more information.
For yesterday, I think he could be the mafia we are looking for.
Blair
: Blair had an early TR on popo when she first replaced in and then didn't say much on her from there, but she and Norway were the ones who successfully set the trap and caught popo in his own lies. Blair spoke out against popo consistently in D2. No way Blair is scum.
Dunnstral/mavs
: Fluff and nothing of note. Not taking a stand, just co-existing and not rocking the boat. Could be scummy. Does advocate for popo to be shot by vig yesterday in order to give the town and extra kill. Says we shouldn't kill popo unless a counter claim comes out. Counter claim comes out and Dunn votes popo. There's scummy stuff here and townie stuff here that pulls me in both directions.
Glitch
: I've always gotten scum vibes from po and voted for him in D2 but switched when realizing we could get a certain scum kill by lynching Truth and shooting popo. I've consistently spoken out against popo.
Looker
: Continuously questions and pushes against popo, but not with remarkable strength. Only votes for popo once there's actual confirmation from Norway on a guilty read. Could be genuine town -- could be scum bussing because he has to in order to not be SR'd.
Nauci
: Nauci spends the first part of the game asking about the vote slave pact, which granted we all did, but that's easy to coast with as scum. Then in 819 makes a large quote wall defense of Po's vote for CSF saying it was genuine, not done to get pressure off of him. Why does Nauci care so much?
NDmath
: Absolutely nothing except null reads, then spiritually joins the wagon when there's no way to oppose a popo elimination.
Truth
: Truth has been completely against and opposed to popo ALL ALONG.
I am so conflicted because everything is telling me to hang this slot and yet how could Truth possibly be scum, play as poorly as he has, AND bus popo literally the entire game?
I just don't understand.
I think it would be a much safer choice to aim for either Nauci or NDmath for the elimination today because they're the ones most suspect on my radar right now by PoE, and their stances on Po in the past. NDmath because of the lack of contribution overall; what an easy way to fly straight through the game if you literally just don't say anything productive about your scum partner at all? And Nauci stands out to me because of the defensiveness; it's not outright and strong, but that in and of itself is how scum would do it, so they wouldn't appear to be hardcore defending their partner. If we can't agree on one of them I'd be willing to talk about Dunn but his content reads more null to me whereas Nauci and NDmath have some legitimate points we need to consider.
I know this is a big sway but we have to really think about how Truth has related to popopo. I would advocate that we choose not to lynch Truth today because we are risking shooting a town slot -- the only way he is scum is if he has been conning us this whole game with a noob facade, which isn't out of the realm of possibilities, but I genuinely don't believe it to be the case when I analyze everything.
So let's zoom in close on NDmath. I've had suspicions on NDmath for a while. Firstly, my vote is not because I'm your top scum read, honestly that's fine. I'm a top scum read in every town game I play. People always say I'm a noob and my scumhunting sucks. As much as I continue trying to improve, it's just reality that my town play comes across as poor and noobish a lot of the times and that gets me votes. So the fact that you've consistently SR'd me is not my motivation here. Previous players who immediately jump onto others because they're their top SR is irritating to me because it's just OMGUS and people triggered that they're under suspicion.
This particular paragraph has nagged me for a while and I really don't like the use of a vote.
In post 828, NDMath wrote:I didn't see value in voting at that point in time. I don't get why I can't be not voting in peace when it's still early in the dayphase and I'm not one to case early on. I'm helping just as much without voting in that you got the impression that if I did vote it would be for you and received the same amount of pressure from it, I don't get that point at all.
I'm a big believer in wagons and votes. We have 2 tools to use unless given a PR, and those are our voice and our votes. Even if you're not certain, use your vote. You don't have to be certain. It's a tool to form pressure, pressure creates content, and content creates results. Mafia can easily hide behind the curtain of withholding their vote to try to stay under the radar.
Additionally, there are lots of random instances that make me raise my eyebrow that pile up. GuiltyLion made a strong case against you in 878 bringing your meta into the game. (And the very next page you have a strong enough SR on GL to vote for him. Shallow.) There's also your legendary 986 self-scum-meta where you prophesy your own playstyle as being scummy. Then there's this:
In post 1320, NDMath wrote:The thought that I'm not scumhunting this game. Since I didn't bother to pretend to scumhunt in my scum game.
Pray, do tell, in which of your 18 posts this game have you genuinely scumhunted?
Additionally:
In post 828, NDMath wrote:I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.
In post 908, NDMath wrote:(Posting one at a time to make lion happy.)
In post 828, NDMath wrote:I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.
What's there to not understand?
Osuka's posts comprise of the brief fight with Quick, a lot of posts facepalming at Truth which are mostly meaningless, and a very lazy and unsubstantiated push on me.
I scumreads the way that Osuka talks about my posting as "weird" repeatedly without ever explaining weird how—it's exactly the kind of shallow shade throwing without being able to come up with a proper case/narrative that signifies scum pushes vs town ones, especially at an opportune time when others like CSF were FoSing me.
He has repeatedly tried to misconstrue the way I have tried to explain his meta to the game as buddying, even though I've repeatedly told him and everyone else why I said what I did about him and wasn't at buddying. He's not engaging with my push at all or answering my question.
I read osuka's iso, I should have done that in the first place.
So let me get this straight. First, you don't understand why people are suspecting osuka. Then you read his ISO. (And what? Now you get it? Or you don't agree?) Then you vote GL immediately after that. (Did you SR him after reading his ISO? Or did you not agree with him being scummy at that point?) And then fast forward you declare intent to hammer osuka. What changed? I saw no content whatsoever in your iso between your 908 comment and your out-of-the-blue intent to hammer. The only thing you mentioned about him is how bewildered and confused you were by his behavior and that it doesn't make sense for either alignment. What was the progression there?
This doesn't even mention the fact that when popo was finally nailed and the ship was RAPIDLY sinking and he knew it, he last-minute voted for you. Why? Why would he vote for you on a sinking ship? Po got all wrapped up in a trap and played his way poorly all the way through the end. Did he play so poorly to try and keep our suspicions off of you by letting his last vote be placed on you? A sad attempt at a last minute bus?
Let's crack down and stop playing games. Let's get real and deal with the fact that Truth is not smart enough to bus popo an entire game, but NDmath's posts are lacking across the board.
Okay, I will admit it. I am not a miller or a mason. I am a vanilla townie and have no special abilities.
I knew I am weak when I started playing so my goal was to be killed by the mafia in the night which would help town a lot to win I think. But my plan didn't work and mafia didn't kill me. I kept asking for doctors to be on me and event alked about my buddies which never existed to make mafia believe I was really a mason, and then I was hoping they would have a strongman or they went for it anyway, but they never did...
I'm sorry for lying to you all. It seemed like a good play to me and I'm quite sure I would have been lynched on day 1 if I didn't claim it so I don't think it was a bad play. Please believe me.
I think Dunnstral is most likely mafia for the way mavsfan attacked po early but then asked about why people were voting po when other people actually started voting him, and he started calling it a policy lynch instead of looking at the actual reasons.
I'm starting to think Truth's Mason buddy is just Truth talking to a mirror.
I demand credit for this.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
to make mafia believe I was really a mason, and then I was hoping they would have a strongman or they went for it anyway, but they never did...