Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Starbuck]

This is frankly one of the best playerlists I think I've ever played with in my decade on-site, and I think you might be surprised by how willing they are to listen and figure shit out with ya as long as you're willing to put in the effort to explain the details and nuances of your suspicions here.

MEGA +1

[Untrod Tripod]

man imagine reading through this whole slog of mechanical bullshit and coming to the conclusion that the one person who you need to yeet is one of the ONLY slots who won't clear anything up by flipping as either alignment

that's a real commitment to not solving the game

and while I'm here YOU

Who do you actually want dead today

If it's Puppy you should probably vote him unless him being confirmed as telling the truth about Vi doing the kills makes him nigh impossible to be scum in your eyes, he's got

no

one votes on him and waiting to have three trackers on Vi to confirm something that wouldn't even convince you of his alignment sure seems dumb to me

If it's not then either say what you're thinking or put in the effort to decide on who's most likely scum now that said mechanical bullshit is being taken care of

the problem here is that I don't know what to do. I kind of feel like the play today is to yeet not-a-claimed-tracker and frankly I find CLAP's revelation preposterous and the way that they approached claiming it as extremely suspicious. Honestly I think that purely from an information standpoint we get rid of that slot today just so we know if we can trust the claimed revelation or not. That way our trackers don't waste a night of tracking the mod if they don't need to. frankly the only reason to track the mod in the first place is to establish whether or not the claimed revelation is true. if we can establish that in a way other than spending a bunch of tracker actions then that's great. the trackers can be used to keep each other accountable for where they went at night and we can figure out that scum is within them by tracking them to a kill or we can yeet outside of the trackers.

either way I think yeeting CLAP is a plus from the information standpoint and their actions around claiming their revelation are highly suspicious. I especially hated that they said "ah, but you see, I couldn't have done it any other way" when that's just plainly not true. Besides, as I've said I don't believe the revelation as claimed. yeet all liars etc.

Reck I'm a little puzzled by his thing w/r/t his revelation but it's whatever. he's been quiet on day play but that tracks if his goal is to stay alive as long as possible so I don't care.

I had suspicions about Blair earlier, but I think that it's a much more pressing matter to yeet pups

vote CLAP

[Kmd4390]

Wasn't morning tweet run up for being wrong on reads too?

She was within the PoE, for me, and I appreciate that being resolved. On top of that, chkflp had an opportunity to redeem the slot and chose to add a bunch of spam to the thread. I'm not sad about removing that element.

My point was that wrong reads don't mean Blair is scum

[VP Baltar]

Wasn't morning tweet run up for being wrong on reads too?

She was within the PoE, for me, and I appreciate that being resolved. On top of that, chkflp had an opportunity to redeem the slot and chose to add a bunch of spam to the thread. I'm not sad about removing that element.

Also chkflip started to imply he had a PR after MT had already said she was vanilla. I would yeet that 1000 times.


Pedit - it is about how you arrive at those wrong reads. Everyone can be wrong, but if you have specious reasoning for getting there, that's scummy.

[CantHateAPuppy]

either way I think yeeting CLAP is a plus from the information standpoint and their actions around claiming their revelation are highly suspicious. I especially hated that they said "ah, but you see, I couldn't have done it any other way" when that's just plainly not true. Besides, as I've said I don't believe the revelation as claimed. yeet all liars etc.

"i don't believe puppy is telling the truth. also, we shouldn't use our nightactions to verify if puppy is telling the truth. we HAVE to get puppy. also, puppy is scummy for believing that there was only one way to handle events."

yep, im ready to OMGUS

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[CantHateAPuppy]

If I'm banished today you all better make sure Puppy commits to an actual read on me first (since he's voting for me but I can't actually remember him giving a read on me ~anywhere~ in the game).

Puppy is not being a very good boi.

not sure what you wanted? i voted you just to see what happened, i said so at the time. i have you as firm null, i really agree with VPB's read but don't see it as scum. shrug

[Untrod Tripod]

either way I think yeeting CLAP is a plus from the information standpoint and their actions around claiming their revelation are highly suspicious. I especially hated that they said "ah, but you see, I couldn't have done it any other way" when that's just plainly not true. Besides, as I've said I don't believe the revelation as claimed. yeet all liars etc.

"i don't believe puppy is telling the truth. also, we shouldn't use our nightactions to verify if puppy is telling the truth. we HAVE to get puppy. also, puppy is scummy for believing that there was only one way to handle events."

yep, im ready to OMGUS

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

I'm not engaging with this past this post. it will get ad hom very quickly.

purely from an information standpoint we get rid of that slot today just so we know if we can trust the claimed revelation or not. That way our trackers don't waste a night of tracking the mod if they don't need to. frankly the only reason to track the mod in the first place is to establish whether or not the claimed revelation is true. if we can establish that in a way other than spending a bunch of tracker actions then that's great. the trackers can be used to keep each other accountable for where they went at night and we can figure out that scum is within them by tracking them to a kill or we can yeet outside of the trackers

extremely not what I said. CLAP has decided to construct a strawman and fight with that. again, yeeting them is the best way to verify the very sketchy information and will in all likelihood allow our trackers to put their powers to a use other than verifying a revelation claim.

[CantHateAPuppy]

like, UT is just being too lazy to believe, i think. don't believe the mechanic, fine, it's bastard as hell, it's hard to believe that vi is making the kills i know. but ive made my crumbs and ive given a clear path to check, put two/three trackers on vi. (it doesn't strike you as odd at all that this is allowed in a game that seemingly only has trackers?) if im lying you will have total proof tomorrow. but you don't want to wait and really have no other scum reads?

that's what bugs me, you don't say "ok, we'll wait one day and see what happens," you act as though my flip is the only way to process this information, do you even have any other leads?

everyone else is casting about for reads, however weak, and you're not even casting about. that's scum

[Kmd4390]

Vote Untrod Tripod

Puppy's info is confirmable by tracking Vi. If we eliminate puppy, it needs to be because we believe scum could have that info and then decide to claim it. Otherwise, we wait a day and see what comes from tracking Vi.

[Untrod Tripod]

Puppy's info is confirmable by tracking Vi

you do realize that "Vi is sometimes able to be tracked to a kill" is not the same thing as "the mod is randomly selecting a person to be killed sometimes and mafia has no control over it"

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

[CantHateAPuppy]

the facts:

* 5 claimed trackers
* no other claimed roles
* not ONE of the trackers has seen any movement except from other trackers
* puppy claims Mech #2
* crumbs planted weeks in advance
* no one else counterclaims this revelation
* Vi, the moderator, can be targeted, HIGHLY unusual
* puppy role claim can be verified mechanically by using half of all trackers

Conclusion:
* wow, there's just NO WAY to figure out if what puppy is saying is plausible or not, get him!

when puppy flips town:
* geez, wow, what a bastard mechanic, it's not my fault puppy was town, he was just so scummy! if only we had had some sort of clue that this game setup was bastard!

[CantHateAPuppy]

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

10 pages of mech spec and i think this is the first reasonable conspiracy theory anyone's made: that moderator is making the kills but scum is still selecting them

ok, that would kind of be brilliant if i was scum fakeclaiming, it's kind of plausible, granted. in this universe, though, wouldn't trackers still be basically worthless? all they could do is mechanically confirm, "yep, vi is the one carrying kills". so why would it be important that trackers are free to track whoever they want, when none of those tracks will ever mean anything?

[Untrod Tripod]

tracking the moderator to a kill WILL NOT CONFIRM the part of the information that's in question, which is that the mafia has no control over the nightkill

10 pages of mech spec and i think this is the first reasonable conspiracy theory anyone's made: that moderator is making the kills but scum is still selecting them

ok, that would kind of be brilliant if i was scum fakeclaiming, it's kind of plausible, granted. in this universe, though, wouldn't trackers still be basically worthless? all they could do is mechanically confirm, "yep, vi is the one carrying kills". so why would it be important that trackers are free to track whoever they want, when none of those tracks will ever mean anything?

I said it days ago. I've been suspicious of the claim from the beginning on that basis.

I could also, from a design standpoint, see there being an x-shot mafia role in a game based around having trackers that fakes a shot for tracker purposes and then has the mafia assign the mod slot to make a kill. just spitballing.

I guess what I'm saying is that CLAP's actions around the revelation are highly sus and it's not like they were a shining beacon of towniness otherwise.

anyway, I'm supposed to believe that partially useless trackers makes less sense than

the mafia doesn't control the nightkill

?

[xRECKONERx]

@UT: this is why i cannot take you being town at face value
so far, after your placement on the auro wagon, you've popped in to be smug about the game and rest on your laurels

like you've had SOME presence of content but my dude it's mostly just calling other people's points dumb
or saying "i didnt like the case"
or giving empty reads
or making statements like this:

iamausername and UT make sense from this perspective

so you think that with two scum remaining I'm going to aggressively bus my remaining buddy with basically no prompting after having ignored him the rest of the game

this is your big spicy take

Yeah I'm pretty great

still yeeting u tmw btw

So let's say hypothetically we yeet MT and they flip scum

You're going to yeet me because I'm clearly bussing all my buddies? And I didn't take the opportunity to hammer a town tracker?

man imagine reading through this whole slog of mechanical bullshit and coming to the conclusion that the one person who you need to yeet is one of the ONLY slots who won't clear anything up by flipping as either alignment

that's a real commitment to not solving the game

you have some good posts that keep me from going whole hog on you here and there's a shred of attempting to solve the game
but anytime anyone dares to push in your direction you just shut it down with snark and sarcasm.
it's something about the way you dismiss it. it's not offering alternatives or engaging with the critique, it's like you go out of your way to paint whatever argument someone is making in the worst light possible and it feels like a bad faith argument

[Untrod Tripod]

reck, if you want to yeet me for being a dick stop playing around and fucking do it

[xRECKONERx]

guys i still want to lynch vi

[xRECKONERx]

fuck, yeet. i want to yeet vi.

like imagine if yeeting vi removes the kill redirect and we now have a fucking army of trackers to unleash on the last scum

[Untrod Tripod]

fuck, yeet. i want to yeet vi.

like imagine if yeeting vi removes the kill redirect and we now have a fucking army of trackers to unleash on the last scum

~Vote Count XXX:

Mod Picturebox set to "Cuteposting"

Vi (R-6)

~

(Gammagooey, Blair, xRECKONERx)

Not Roasting:

AGar,

(Blair,)

CantLynchAPuppy, Green Crayons, Hoopla, Kmd4390,

(Gammagooey,)

Starbuck, Untrod Tripod, VP Baltar,

(xRECKONERx,)

Gammagooey, Blair, xRECKONERx

-Votes cast for entities not explicitly enumerated in the topic post will not be counted.

--With 11 alive, it will take 6 votes to roast a player.
--Deadline is at 21:00 on Wednesday, 22 July 2020.

(10 days left)

sorry babe it's not in the cards

[xRECKONERx]

reck, if you want to yeet me for being a dick stop playing around and fucking do it

it's not really about you being a dick it's about the way you engage with the arguments

that being said, i don't necessarily think you are scum for it.

i do think you are probably barking up the wrong tree with CLAP. i dont know if a revelation that ridiculous is possibly fakeclaimed. idk.

but i think my preferences today would fall into one of the following
- yeet vi
- yeet someone inside the tracker pool specifically
- yeet someone on the auro wagon to find the bus

[CantHateAPuppy]

what's my scum motivation for lying about this btw? i convince you that scum doesn't control the night kill so i can... ? eliminate that all-important and crucial part of night kill analysis, removing a dastardly tool that always works so well at identifying scum. dratsky watsky

if i was scum, i didn't need to reveal that trackers were worthless at all, if i hadn't it would have been much likelier that we would vote out a tracker because 5 trackers (or 3 or however many it was when i claimed) would have not been believed

[xRECKONERx]

i refuse to believe that. if the kills are being performed by the mod and we have no way of stopping it, then this is essentially a mountainous game?
standard mountainous balance is 2:11, so... if we have 4 scum and 13 townies then i have some serious fucking questions about balance

the setup is SWINGY not "catastrophically fucked six ways to sunday"

[CantHateAPuppy]

@UT: this is why i cannot take you being town at face value
so far, after your placement on the auro wagon, you've popped in to be smug about the game and rest on your laurels

like you've had SOME presence of content but my dude it's mostly just calling other people's points dumb
or saying "i didnt like the case"
or giving empty reads
or making statements like this:

i feel like this whole post is good and has some good examples, town points for reck

btw i don't really mind that he has some revelation he doesn't want to claim, but i don't think id want to let reck into F3 or F5 because that claim could make a lot of uncertainty and wifom. but i don't think its scummy to hold onto a revelation like that.

[Untrod Tripod]

what's my scum motivation for lying about this btw?

because it completely nullifies the trackers as an information tool? is this question a fucking joke?

- yeet vi

you. cannot. yeet. the. mod.

i refuse to believe that

so... you don't believe the claimed revelation either?

[CantHateAPuppy]

i refuse to believe that. if the kills are being performed by the mod and we have no way of stopping it, then this is essentially a mountainous game?
standard mountainous balance is 2:11, so... if we have 4 scum and 13 townies then i have some serious fucking questions about balance

the setup is SWINGY not "catastrophically fucked six ways to sunday"

i don't want to tell you wnat to believe / not believe, and i think the whole argument about whether farside had a revelation or not was kind of fruitless. but if you believe that farside is scum and really had a revelation, and this is a reason people should consider you town... you have to believe that im town too. do you think im lying town?

[xRECKONERx]

no. right now, i think i believe CLAP (and would like trackers to verify things by tracking Vi) but i think there has to be a way to stop the random kills.

because, again, i cannot overstate this enough: 4:13 mountainous is ten million lightyears away from anything resembling balance

P.EDIT: CLAP i think you're actually town.

the "i refuse to believe that" was in reference to not being able to yeet vi and/or stop the randomness someway