A warlock, a werewolf, and a vampire... [Game Over]

[Lady 8]

His actions right now seem oriented towards keeping an antitown status quo. We barely gain info on anything and so we don't get a solid pair for endgame.

By virtue of pushing for your elimination? Or is there more? I dont take issue with eliminating your pair.

I don't see what town loses eliminating your pair first, compared to what town gains eliminating a different one first.

[Gentleman 2]

His actions right now seem oriented towards keeping an antitown status quo. We barely gain info on anything and so we don't get a solid pair for endgame.

By virtue of pushing for your elimination? Or is there more? I dont take issue with eliminating your pair.

Town doesn't gain anything either because scum didn't leave their comfort zone.

[Lady 8]

His actions right now seem oriented towards keeping an antitown status quo. We barely gain info on anything and so we don't get a solid pair for endgame.

By virtue of pushing for your elimination? Or is there more? I dont take issue with eliminating your pair.

Town doesn't gain anything either because scum didn't leave their comfort zone.

But you agree you were going to be eliminated at some point. Why would we delay till later rather than get the flips now?

I guess I see what you're saying, you think we should have had people push for less consensus reads, see where people were inclined to go first before doing the LHFish elims.

I still dont see the scum motivation for Gent 5, given after a town flip from you, we'll go to that phase seeing who people are willing to push anyway. Just in a different order. I just don't see why the order is important for a scum Gent 5 to go for you first.

We have your flips in this scenario to work with as well so we dont have to constantly wonder if we're looking for 1 or 2 scum, if Gent 7 / Gent 2 are both scum, and whatever else. It seems like a better way of going about it to me.

[Gentleman 2]

Shouldn't endgame:

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2

Okay, just go for these next.

Lady 4, do you want to say something before we leave?

[Gentleman 4]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

[Gentleman 2]

Game is stagnant FYI. Resistance for wagon movements and perpetually confbiasing reads are huge red flags for a proscum gamestate. If anyone's willing to challenge this gamestate, I already offered the options.

[Gentleman 2]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

Difference between them is that town will genuinely evaluate every pair instead of just following a predetermined order pretending to be confident it will work.

[Lady 3]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

Could we spill wine on people's tuxes so they have to go home and change instead of hanging them

[Lady 3]

G2shades do you still feel that G4 is scummy the way you did when you entered the game?

[Lady 8]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

That's pretty much why I'm not reading it. It was a foregone conclusion and I dont see why scum would favour pushing it early over town. Its not a move to save Gent 5's mate in another pair, cause this wagon would happen regardless of what other pairs are voted today (Which is a theory I recall gent 2 having)

[Gentleman 2]

G2shades do you still feel that G4 is scummy the way you did when you entered the game?

I don't townread him. I could see him flipping scum. But I think Lady 2 is more likely to be scum and I don't see a scum-scum pair.

[Gentleman 2]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

That's pretty much why I'm not reading it. It was a foregone conclusion and I dont see why scum would favour pushing it early over town. Its not a move to save Gent 5's mate in another pair, cause this wagon would happen regardless of what other pairs are voted today (Which is a theory I recall gent 2 having)

Don't you think it is antitown for a wagon to be unreadable?

[Gentleman 4]

Difference between them is that town will genuinely evaluate every pair instead of just following a predetermined order pretending to be confident it will work.

Did you feel like he was unfair in wanting you hanged? I remember that he wasn't immediately gunning for your pairing and that he even voted my pair before that.

[Lady 8]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

That's pretty much why I'm not reading it. It was a foregone conclusion and I dont see why scum would favour pushing it early over town. Its not a move to save Gent 5's mate in another pair, cause this wagon would happen regardless of what other pairs are voted today (Which is a theory I recall gent 2 having)

Don't you think it is antitown for a wagon to be unreadable?

I guess it's less useful than a wagon that is readable, yeah? That doesnt change how the wagon has to happen, and there will be more helpful wagons following it.

How is it more pro-town to avoid flipping you till the very end of the day? If you are the preferred wagon, I dont see how its helpful to ignore you and push less preferred, but also less consensus wagons first, rather than the other way around.

If anything, Gent 5 somewhat reading you as scummy and aggressively pushing your wagon comes off as better to me since theres no reason for scum to do anything more than be "Meh" on it, assuming you're town.

[Gentleman 2]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

[Lady 7]

I think what Gent 2 is hoping for is for somebody to come in and say that his reaction is really towny and for the wagon to fall apart

This is the worst post I have read in regards to this wagon.

[Gentleman 2]

Gentleman 1 - Lady 7

Is the most trustable for endgame assuming G8-L5 leaves in intermission.

[Gentleman 2]

If it's not Gent 5, it's Gent 9.

[Lady 7]

I am missing so much fun today aren't I?
Make sure to keep up the energy by the time I make it home.

[Lady 8]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

That more or less just looked like challenging your read as being just a weak OMGUS, I dont think he was suggesting he's town for it

I think what Gent 2 is hoping for is for somebody to come in and say that his reaction is really towny and for the wagon to fall apart

This is the worst post I have read in regards to this wagon.

I'm willing to hear more abt this

[Gentleman 2]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

That more or less just looked like challenging your read as being just a weak OMGUS, I dont think he was suggesting he's town for it

Falselu saying I did nothing and coming off with better cred for bothering to push a mislynch. The kind of false confidence I see scum build lately in games.

[Lady 8]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

That more or less just looked like challenging your read as being just a weak OMGUS, I dont think he was suggesting he's town for it

Falselu saying I did nothing and coming off with better cred for bothering to push a mislynch. The kind of false confidence I see scum build lately in games.

Hm, maybe scum builds up a ton of confidence in miselims to seem towny, sure

2694 is one of his big posts against you. I don't disagree with any of it, I wouldn't say it's false. Essentially you were making vague statements about how the game isn't as easy as just you being scum, but there isn't any reason to believe that over the game being harder. It doesn't prove you're scum but he doesnt claim that

He explicitly says he's not convinced you're scum in 2911 but doesn't see why your response can't be from scum, and he doesn't townread you

And in 2913 he says your read on him is shallow and he isn't scummy for pushing you like you seem to believe

I still don't see this as a grab for towncred

[Gentleman 2]

After we flip, G4-L2 is going to be next, right?

[Lady 6]

I think Gent 1 is scum

[Lady 8]

After we flip, G4-L2 is going to be next, right?

If the totem pole remains the same and we follow it, probably.

I thought you wanted us to do G9 or G5 and avoid following consensus, though. Wouldn't your argument against those wagoning you then, in turn, apply to those who go after G4/L2 next?