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[Nero Cain]

I don't like this post at all, I reallly hate cocky players but I am not entirely sure if it's NAI. Doesn't really affect my read on them at all

I mean, I am somewhat cocky but it's just mostly facts. I'm getting alot of town reads and ummm....there's a shit ton of players with more heat than me so yeah, I feel fairly confident that I'm not going to get lynched today.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't like this post at all, I reallly hate cocky players but I am not entirely sure if it's NAI. Doesn't really affect my read on them at all

I mean, I am somewhat cocky but it's just mostly facts. I'm getting alot of town reads and ummm....there's a shit ton of players with more heat than me so yeah, I feel fairly confident that I'm not going to get lynched today.

Yeah I know the meaning behind it, just don't like how it was worded

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

[Town looter]

It’s acknowledging 2 worlds. 1 where i’m scum and town!Neros push was kinda awkward

he doesn't seem to hold this opinion He's accusing me of potentially bussing you

. So either he's scum that knows you'll flip scum and is pre emptively setting up an argument for later on or knows that this is TvT and is setting up a chain lynch.

Yeah I am not seeing it that way at all.

That being said, his SR on NorwegianEE

does

need to be explained.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).

My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.

Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.

And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.

All very minor things, but they all add up.

I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.

Spoiler:

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

VOTE: Superbowl

Why do you think stanley is good for scum me to latch onto over town me? What has stanley done to give you a townread?

It sounds to me like your case is "well scum superbowl

could

have done all of these things!" I hope I don't have to tell you that's a bad case.

For the misquote thing I was on mobile and hit the quote button to respond, then changed my mind because I assessed it as not too big of a deal to respond to, you're saying I should have been flustered by it and responded immediately? Maybe I just don't get flustered because I'm built different

To be fair, Looter seems aware that his case is weak (at least that's what the first line suggests). But he gives it anyway. And honestly, I tend to townread the move because it is likely to come from town wanting to give their opinion, as weak as it could be (a bit like how I gave my early opinion of Pickaxe, and y'all hated that). So if anything, this gives some small town points to Looter. It isn't really a great case though lol, I'm only commenting on the intent I see behind the post here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me.

Oh the irony

More discrediting? -_-

~~

Norway is scum. I'm not moving my vote for the rest of the day.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but this is bullshit.

You didn't test Norway for reactivity, you targeted a poster you already knew tended to react to things and are now spinning that reaction into proof of being mafia. I mentioned at the beginning of the game that Norway was a good scum player, and I think you're trying to capitalize on townie paranoia of being tricked by good scum players.

Even if you did think Norway might be scum, there's no way you'd be 100% sure this early and planting your vote here means less pressure on real mafia. It's a safe way to look like you're scumhunting while contributing little.

VOTE: NoPowerOverMe

Ehhh, perhaps, but Norway said NoPower was playing in their town meta, and I see NoPower's playstyle as very different from others. They keep making absolute statements where they don't belong, and I think that's a playstyle difference and not an alignment difference. Now of course, they could be scum anyway, but I wouldn't put too much money on it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@marshall, you either misunderstood or strawmanned my opinion on you. I was saying that you’re goofy as both alignments. Also you’ve been in enough games here to adjust to the meta here, so that excuse doesn’t work at all.

Oh ok
Well uh, sure, I'm "goofy" to you. I maintain the meta difference part, though: a lot of seasoned MS players really don't think the way I do (or the way anyone on any site I know of does, by the way).

Also, if Nero-Norwee is scum theatre, I will eat my hat. Which isn't too hard, since I have no hat, but anyway. I really, really, really doubt their interactions are SvS, both because of the suspicions between them both and because of the heated character of those interactions.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

People have absolutely said what i’m About to say better. But he’s thinking laterally, but it’s all town perspective.

“the solving of problems by an indirect and creative approach, typically through viewing the problem in a new and unusual light.“-google.

Just read him again.

Huh ok, I actually like your view now lol, it joins up with what I just said and shows that you're looking at me through well-thought-about lens.

And no, I'm not saying that because you say I have town perspective, I'm saying that because I think you saying that comes from a town perspective

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: quote

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

"One balloon for you" is usually the kind of thing you say when you want to engage RVS-style conversation with a player.

He voted someone who hadn't picked up their role pm

Also, "contrived read"... it isn't because I give the weak reads I have to start discussion that I'm giving "contrived" reads. This is going to read as more haughty than it should, but I sadly don't see a better way to word it, sorry in advance: you should be thanking me for starting meaningful discussion on people's behavior (in this very case, mine) instead of blaming me for giving a weak read in the first hours of D1 and calling it "contrived".

That being said, I can understand the thought process town!Cat would be going through here, and give some town points to them (more meaningful town points than those I gave to Pickaxe early on).
oh no maybe that's "contrived" too

and final disclaimer, this is not meant to be mean lol, I just find your conception of how people should play quite restrictive.

Weak =/= contrived.

Weak reads are fine as something to get the ball rolling.

Your read is both weak and contrived. It's hard to believe town would look at Pete's posts critically and be like "yeah this is going to be the townlean read that I'm going to throw out"

I don't take a read and say "Ok, this is

the

read I'll be giving". I see something, I say it. Period.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think town would try and incorporate other players into the game rather than try to convince others to ignore other players they had a bad one game experience with.

If town was made up of robots instead of human beings, sure.

Someone who will exclude others due to one bad game is going to do so whether they're green or red.

It's pretty self-centered and anti Town though. Any reasonable townie should know that one game is not an adequate sample size. Also being a eplacement is not easy and somewhat thankless.

I agree with you that it's anti-town, but I certainly do not agree that it's scummy to be angry at someone because of a past game. It's not scummy to be human lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

howdy

hmmmmm

*looks at ISO to make sure I didn't miss posts from the guy*

Yeah uh, this is his complete ISO...

Would you mind giving us a little bit more, Ralph? Your thoughts on SuperBowl, for example.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

how many scum is in

LicketyQuickety
popopopopopopo
ralph217
Ganelon
NorwegianboyEE
Glitch
Lapsa

?

Why is your list made of zero posters AND of active posters (looking at Norwee here) AND of medium-low activity people (like Glitch)? Your post looks like a question asked for the sake of being asked, and I do not like it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

lets make this Glitch wagon a thing. to me Bell and you 2 TOSers!

Pretty bold for the strenght of the read on Glitch.

It’s acknowledging 2 worlds. 1 where i’m scum and town!Neros push was kinda awkward

he doesn't seem to hold this opinion He's accusing me of potentially bussing you. So either he's scum that knows you'll flip scum and is pre emptively setting up an argument for later on or knows that this is TvT and is setting up a chain lynch.

There is no real reason to have that much fear about a Norwee lynch today for scum!Glitch+Norwee, as Norwee isn't really being pushed that much. Not enough for Glitch to try this kind of play, at least. As for the chain lynch theory, if Glitch was trying to do that, he'd be much more present in the thread. As things stand right now, he's only making a few wallposts that probably not everyone reads and that don't have enormous weight in the thread, which isn't exactly the vision I have of "setting up a chain lynch".

TL;DR: your case is rather weak.

And since your case is weak, I think the first quote up there could very well be a deflection from an annoying wagon. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know... but I have doubts on Nero now.

[Nero Cain]

Why is your list made of zero posters AND of active posters (looking at Norwee here) AND of medium-low activity people (like Glitch)?

I don't really understand this. Am I supposed to hunt from only one activity group or something? Also, Norway feels kinda active lurkish compared to early game but I do have town reads of various degrees on most active players.

[Nero Cain]

as Norwee isn't really being pushed that much

norway is @ 2 votes.

all of Nero, Glitch, Bell would vote him...prob. If we all voted him we could make him the top wagon. There are maybe others that have expressed suspicion of him and would vote him. I don't think its that far fetched to think the guy could get lynched. But even if its not today its not like there is some statue of limitations on Glitch's accusations so

And since your case is weak, I think the first quote up there could very well be a deflection from an annoying wagon.

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know

... but I have doubts on Nero now.

Well I have doubts you know what you are talking about. If you think my reasoning on Glitch is weak fine but I'm doing my job and pushing my top scum read and trying to get town to go in the direction I think it should go. The only 2 other wagons are you and superbowl so you are kinda floating the idea that I am pushing Glitch to deflect from you or SB wagon but are being really really wishy-washy about it? (see bold) So I kinda don't get whats making you have doubts and it feels more like this was intended to litly defend Glitch than actully confront me with something that bothered you.

[72offsuit]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.
Let me break it down.

1. You say "I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw"
2. I disagree. I say it's highly unlikely that all the top volume posters are town, on the premise alone that scum would not allow town to dictate the game's trajectory by mostly just lurking. If there are active town posters, scum will usually interject and derail unless there is TvT aggro.
3. You say "You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO?"
4. That is clearly not what I said.

More votes on superbowl required

Choo Choo Choo!

[72offsuit]

how many scum is in

LicketyQuickety
popopopopopopo
ralph217
Ganelon
NorwegianboyEE
Glitch
Lapsa

?

This is probs town

[72offsuit]

(Nero)

[72offsuit]

or wait, maybe im wrong.

If I SR you because of your play, and SR Norway because of his play, it is optimal to apply pressure, not to speculate blindfolded on a possible scum alliance. I am certainly not, in a game this large especially, going to speculate on players playing scum together right off the bat on D1.

he seems to be hinting that he thinks I was bussing norway. it's still weird mostly.

Ye, happy to kick Glitch just off this one post alone.
Neat punctuation - SCUMMY

[Town looter]

how many scum is in

LicketyQuickety
popopopopopopo
ralph217
Ganelon
NorwegianboyEE
Glitch
Lapsa

?

This is probs town

Why?

[Nero Cain]

ok why am i not, looter?

[Fwesnid]

Spoiler: Jackson Virgo catchup trimmed

Why did i join a 20+ game. Omg. Time to fight against the wagon dynamics of dogpiling on an random player.
Vigs better shoot tonight.

Why would vig's have to shoot tonight? Wouldn't it be better to save the vig shots for a 1 for 1 scenario or similar or at least until we've got a bunch more reads down.

Given the size of this group, how do you feel about eliminating low-activity slots?

Do you agree with Norwegian that vigs should shoot early?

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

I've never played a setup with a vig, and haven't really thought about it. So not sure, probably defer to other's better judgement on this.

I don't believe this answered their question at all but I am personally against shooting N1 as you may end up killing a strong PR or the like stupidly and then go "Oh oop- soz"

Also is kill credits a thing?

@Mod It should be 11 to lynch, I'm voting for Bell while Glitch is not, and superbowl is voting for Glitch.

This is my first game out of the newbie forum. Question: "The townvmafia numbers are confirmed to be 16v5," so this is definitely two factions? No worrying about more than one mafia or a serial killer?

Yes there are exactly 16 town, and exactly 5 mafia of one faction.

Full and odd-night vigilantes should almost always be shooting night 1. X-shot is pretty situational.

superbowl's two recent posts ping.

Can you explain to me as to why vigilantes should shoot N1, I don't see the benefit outside of just killing town off faster with the small chance of hitting a wolf.

Unless a vigilante is x-shot they can't 'save' shots.
A full vigilante is a very strong role, there's not much you're gonna hit. (For perspective, if a vigilante shoots twice, and one shot is someone town would've eliminated anyway, and the other is just not someone scum would nk upon roleclaim, the vigilante was positive.)
Haven't heard of kill credits so probably not.
If there are three deaths night 1 and no weak/babysitters etc. we know there is at least two vigilantes.


UNVOTE: VOTE: superbowl
I scumread how he interacted with MM, it seemed very dismissive, and am curious of his perspective of offsuit's point.

[Fwesnid]

Not sure if that's gonna be accepted.
VOTE: superbowl

[Lapsa]

It has to be 2 vigilante setup. I see no other way around it.

[ralph217]

i get feelin whys every one tslking