Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This whole argument between Nero, NoPower and Norwee on pages 12-14 will be very interesting to look at when one of them flips, but for now, it's only giving me a headache lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The "I don't care if I die early" is blatant ate that's the main reason Norway needs to go.

I don't agree with this (not caring about dying early isn't AtE, it's a mentality), but I see the kind of player NoPower is now. And I don't think it's true only siths deal in absolutes in Mafia; NoPower is going pretty hard at Norwee for rather weak reasons here. Leaning town on him, and leaning TvT on Norwee - NoPower.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

UNVOTE: RozyRoz

Recalling one balloon.

Um, that's it? Rather lazy. I'm disappointed. You are officially stripped of your early town points.

[Nero Cain]

the "I don't care if I die" is (imo) mostly bad town mentality thats

EASILY

fakeable from scum.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: Glitch's wallpost

VOTE: RozyRoz

One balloon for you.

I see people.

Light townread on Pickaxe Pete because he actually tries to generate AI discussion and ignores the NAI stuff

This is some major bullshit. I wish I could have been here when your wagon was alive and strong so I could bolster it with my vote as well. When confronted on this by CSF and Bell, let's take a look at this:

Voting with a line meant to be replied to, and not taking part to the discussion about theory that took over the thread for some posts. Not saying his posts are legendary, but they are still better than Superbowl's, for example.

This line of thinking does not make sense whatsoever. I know that you have not been active since post 115 but when you return please answer the question posed to you by CSF here in response to your 110:

I don't follow. Which line by Pickaxe Pete warranted a response...? Like aside from you who quoted his posts to give him a townlean, no one even bothered to respond to Pete's posts.

This feels like a contrived read. More votes on Marshmallow plz n ty.

---

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

Is this what you're talking about when you said you threw a tiny bit of shade at superbowl? How is this throwing a tiny bit of shade? This is the only time you've addressed SB in the game:

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

Can you please clarify: where did you throw a tiny bit of shade on SB, and where was MM's response to that which made you decide to vote for him? Who was the other person who took your "bait?" This seems like a really weak argument worthy of voting for because I don't see anything indicating that you actually threw shade at SB and especially don't see anywhere where MM gave a reaction to that. And yet somehow MM gave enough reaction to vote for him?

---

This argument between you two feels forced af

Stan, can you please define, in as much detail as you possibly can,

exactly

what you meant and exactly what you were trying to communicate by using the term, "forced af?"

---

Did we just completely ignore the fact that 72 came in and voted 4 different times on page 9? What the hell was that, 72?

---

Can we go back to Norwegian though? I'm interested in if you're scum-reading him.

I'm not really understanding why a naked vote is getting everybody up in arms. I'm not really hard scumreading him or anything but I had a little niggle and I didn't really want to leave my vote empty after I got off Stan. Its been a while but I vaguely recall norway proclaiming himself as town ad nasuem when he was scum.

Good thing i'm green☆

I’M TOWN!

assuming that I remembered correctly then that seems p similar to his scum game.

Why are you unable to see that your naked vote on Norway was sketchy at best? This whole page 10-11 interaction where you're defending your naked vote is really poor. When pushed to explain, the best you've got is to quote two posts from Norway that are super clearly sarcastic and not to be taken as AI? Additionally, your case that Norway is scummy because he wants to know why you're voting him is bad. Everyone would want to know why you cast a vote for them if you just did so out of the blue with no explanation whatsoever. It feels like you set up a trap for him: you know Norway is talkative and expressive and posts a lot. Are you scum taking advantage of that who set up Norway with a naked vote to inquire why you voted him, and then you smeared his playstyle calling him hyper defensive when he simply wanted you to explain why you voted for him? You tried to make him look bad for wanting to understand and wanting you to clarify your vote. Why is it bad that Norway wants you to give information on your vote? I thought you were an advocate of not keeping information to yourself but sharing it with the rest of the world, according to this:

Do you just not understand the concept of keeping information to yourself so you can greater benefit lol?

oh, you are one of those players :/

Nah not necessarily. Transparency is powerful but it's also a game of information. If you just put everything out there 100% of the time you will lose your advantage.

I strongly disagree but its game theory so no point in arguing about it and cluttering up the thread. Lets lynch stan or at least talk about him. What is even that fuzzy alien avatar?

VOTE: Nero Cain

---

If something doesn't change we're PL'ing Lapsa before long.

Replied to what you wanted me to reply to

The point about Nero's naked vote on Norwee is fair. It doesn't feel right to me on a pure gut level, but it logically makes sense, so idk. I guess I'll keep a bit more of an eye on him? Either way, I like that part of the post.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

the "I don't care if I die" is (imo) mostly bad town mentality thats

EASILY

fakeable from scum.

True, but the benefits of faking it as scum aren't so great, and it's not rare to see it simply come from town, so I'm very reluctant to scumread anyone on that basis.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm changing your name to Marshal Zhukov after watching that video.

[Nero Cain]

you do know that I actully explained my "naked" vote and thus glitchs "you set a trap for him!" "you scumread him b/c he asked why you are voting him!" are lies from the bottom pit of hell?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I just realized I've cluttered a page and a half with my catch-up lol. I think I'm going off now, have fun guys

I'm changing your name to Marshal Zhukov after watching that video.

YES

[Nero Cain]

I mean, if you have a feeling no matter how small and insinifigant it is you should ignore it?

What the hell kind of discredit bullshit is that?

[Nero Cain]

I'm not really hard scumreading him or anything but I had a little niggle and I didn't really want to leave my vote empty after I got off Stan. Its been a while but I vaguely recall norway proclaiming himself as town ad nasuem when he was scum.

[Town looter]

For me it's because I threw a tiny amount of shade at superbowl as a bit of a reaction test and got two small nibbles.

Is this what you're talking about when you said you threw a tiny bit of shade at superbowl? How is this throwing a tiny bit of shade? This is the only time you've addressed SB in the game:

Unless there is good evidence of lurking, no. Mis-elimming an active slot will generally tell us more than a mis-elim on an inactive slot. This obviously only applies to early game, activity will be a useful source of information later in the game because of how easy it is to fly below the radar.

Disagree low activity players are better for scum to have around.

Elimming a high activity slot just for info is not a good idea

That's really not what I said though, was it...

Can you please clarify: where did you throw a tiny bit of shade on SB, and where was MM's response to that which made you decide to vote for him? Who was the other person who took your "bait?" This seems like a really weak argument worthy of voting for because I don't see anything indicating that you actually threw shade at SB and especially don't see anywhere where MM gave a reaction to that. And yet somehow MM gave enough reaction to vote for him?

Yeah, I am not going to pretend it is in anyway a strong or high accuracy read. Basically my thought process was "Superbowl misrepped me slightly, i'll call him out on it and see what happens with other responses to the situation". Both MM and Fwesnid included negative responses to Superbowl after that. Fwesnid's was probably more direct (hence a slightly stronger read), but MM was the one who had a wagon so I jumped on that. It was a shit case, but pretty sure 99.9% of cases in the first 10 pages of a large are going to be.

FWIW updated reads: MM is pretty null leaning town - null because I am skimming and haven't thought too deeply about what they have been saying nor the arguments they have been making in other discussions (I am a slow ponderous thinker, mostly) but bit of a town feel from activity alone. Fwesnid I have actually flipped based on 384, and have a reasonably strong town read on them.

Hopefully that answers MM's question as well.

On the Nero/Norwegian/NPOM/et. al. front I am actually rather confused. I am reading pretty good points from both sides, but haven't made full sense of it yet.

UNVOTE: Norwegian while I have another read. I remember something pinging along the way from first read.

[Town looter]

This whole argument between Nero, NoPower and Norwee on pages 12-14 will be very interesting to look at when one of them flips, but for now, it's only giving me a headache lol

+1.

[Town looter]

Bleh, just as I was starting to get a gut scum feeling about Superbowl (SB), MM throws a proper case together and is going to make it look like I am sheeping (for the 2nd or 3rd time in this game ).

My read started after re-reading the Stanley interaction. I think Scum!SB genuinely thinks it's a good case that he can latch onto and look like he is scumhunting. And it kind of is, except for the fact that there absolutely could be a SvT interaction that "feels" forced (I take Stanley's response as a throw-away gut feeling after reading - I have made similar statements): Scum could be doing the forcing, which gives the conversation a forced feel overall. Given I have a mild town read on Stan, I am willing to trust his gut in this.

Then there is the reluctance to respond openly, which could be scum motivated as the information may not exist.

And then the response to mis-quoting in 308; later you say you were going to respond, but your initial response doesn't really add up. I think a more natural town response would be to respond to 235, probably in a slightly flustered way given you mis-posted.

All very minor things, but they all add up.

I also am getting town vibes from Nero (and NoPowerOverMe, which will matter in a second). Trusting these vibes puts a question mark over Glitch. And where are you in Glitch's reads? Right where a scum partner would be. I know it is absurd looking for associations prior to a single flip. But like I say, the little things are adding up.

Spoiler:

The difference in a 4 vote wagon and a 5 vote wagon in this game is literally so miniscule that it makes no difference, especially when one of those votes is Lapsa. The MM wagon will continue to die down until MM comes back on and responds to the investigation kicked off by CSF and reminded by me in my post above. If his response is shitty then I'm all for building a serious wagon then. But let's not pretend that 3 votes + Lapsa is a remarkable wagon opportunity to pass up. It's not.

I love a good, strong wagon. The MM wagon is not one as it stands and my vote remains more useful on you.

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway. I won't be voting Superbowl or NPOM as they are my highest TRs, CSF is almost up to that same peak tier.

Bell why does Nero feel townie to you?
Nero, why are you hesitant to accept the town block invitation?
Popopo, have you not shown up yet because of the vote tag rule?

VOTE: Superbowl

[72offsuit]

Why do you feel the need to put "reason" next to every vote you make?

Why did you feel the need to state the Strong townread was serious?

Do you townread Marshmellow? I find when people echo specific phrases while speaking with me, it's because the second speaker feels comfortable with the first.

I don't have a read on MM at all. Nothing has registered on the town-scum-radar.

[72offsuit]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

[72offsuit]

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

Thats because I wasnt confident about what i was sheeping.

[72offsuit]

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

This is actually really scummy.
Liked my previous stance on himself.
I do something that based on what he has posted, he should scumread me for, but instead concludes with a fence-sittish "so uh,

what is this

?

Not sure

I like it"

[72offsuit]

So basically it feels like !scumMM concluding that its not in his interests to scumread me, so he doesnt.

[72offsuit]

Time for bed before I fill the thread with useless posts like this one.

[Nero Cain]

I have 99 problems but a glitch isn't one of them.

VOTE: glitch

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Spoiler: quotes

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

Thats because I wasnt confident about what i was sheeping.

Spoiler:

Um, thank you for your honesty. Why would you sheep something you're not confident about though lol? That sounds like an obvious recipe for disaster from a townie's point of view, no?

Spoiler: quotes

Anime pfps are rising in strength. Soon we will take over the universe

Hear hear brother.

The time for revolution is neigh. Throw off the chains of the bourgeoisie anti-anime oppressors.

The temptation is too strong.

Spoiler: video

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_GBfiKjJZ8[/youtube]

FORWARD

This all depends on the circumstances... if a high activity slot is scummy, you should create a massive discussion around it and potentially lynch it. You will get a relatively likely scum flip + a ton of info to work with. If noone really strikes anyone as super scummy, then lynching among the lurkers is a good idea.

This is the correct take

And now, can we start calling eachother scum so that we can have meaningful discussion, please? This debate about lynching and shooting basing on activity isn't alignment indicative, and we've basically killed RVS' significance here.

This isn't. Never understood why people can't just scroll past things theory if they don't want to read it?

Nothing wrong with that post. Why wouldn't !townMM try to halt discussion that they think is filler and bloating the thread?

Right. Good start from offsuit here.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Bell Choo choo!

Not exactly original, but pretty understandable and acceptable.

Are we really reading into the reasons for which people read other games when they were bored? That looks like a prototype of NAI thing to me.

This reads like busywork to me. Fake attempt at looking like town doing things useful for town. Bell is my first scumread so far.

LOL, voted for the wrong player.

VOTE: MM Choo choo!

I think I'm losing my marbles.

I did mean to vote for Bell.

VOTE: Bell

Choo choo

This confusion leads me to question what exactly Offsuit thought he was sheeping, and what his intent was when he did it. When you genuinely sheep a reasoning you find good, it's because you thought about it and really liked it... so uh, what is this? Not sure I like it.

This is actually really scummy.
Liked my previous stance on himself.
I do something that based on what he has posted, he should scumread me for, but instead concludes with a fence-sittish "so uh,

what is this

?

Not sure

I like it"

I like your previous stance on myself because it's right. What, you'd want me not to talk about it because it doesn't fit my distrust of you that comes later? How would that serve the town's interest? Answer: it wouldn't.
And if you were actually basing on what I posted instead of twisting my words, you'd see that I'm trying to see where you're coming from instead of instantly accusing you of being scum. It's not fencesitting, it's the healthy level of doubt required in Mafia lol.

So basically it feels like !scumMM concluding that its not in his interests to scumread me, so he doesnt.

And then the final layer of red paint.

There are two possibilities: either Offsuit is a pretty OMGUSsy townie, or they're scum throwing shade at me. I'm slightly leaning towards the latter due to their lack of content (they literally popped in only to defend themselves and shade me, and said NOTHING about the rest of the thread's events) and due to the nature of the shade-throwing here. I'm open to the possibility of an Offsuit lynch today. I'd also like to see more content from them that isn't self-defense, so here's a question: what do you think about Norwee and about Superbowl, Offsuit?

[NorwegianboyEE]

How did you mess up your post on my mobile browser so badly.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Ahh, the joy of playing offsite xD (love the site, but ugh I'm not used to the BBcode yet). Sorry for the layout. I think you'll be able to see what is mine and what isn't... hopefully.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

How did you mess up your post on my mobile browser so badly.

'Twas probably made by capitalist scumbags anyway.