Large Normal 229 | Manatee's Musical Mafia | Game Over

[ralph217]

hello lapsa

[Bell]

Ralph, what are your thoughts on the players so far?
Do you have any suspicions on who is mafia?

[Bell]

@marsh I was talking about Super Bowl, not you with the lateral thinking.
Okay i’ll Take your word that it isn’t a meta thing but a you thing

[superbowl9]

Had a feeling the MM omgus was coming if I waited long enough

I think MM's spew is kinda IIoAy

Not in the traditional way but more in the just put out a bunch of basic level argumentation thats really low hanging fruit type of way if you get me - not saying it's AI yet

Discrediting 2 pages of my content without any quotes and labelling them as IIoA and OMGUS? Nice

Yeah your 2 pages are just basic information and not really things that are pushy/pushable, hence why it's IIoA. I know you want me to go point by point through so you can undermine my position, but that literally makes no sense because I'm saying you've been cluttering the thread with basic info. Why would I respond to/elaborate upon that basic info lol?

Also dude you have literally OMGUSed everyone who has slighted you. Idk why you view this as a "discredit" because (at least imo) OMGUS is pretty NAI in most cases but it's just funny to point out when you OMGUS scumread someone then say they're OMGUSing.

[superbowl9]

I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw
Risk/reward of being that active this early in the game is not very favorable

There are 5 scum. You seriously think all 5 are going to be low/medium posters and just allow town to form a town-block. Yeah nah

Yes that's what I said. You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO??? We've been at each other's throats

There's no way someone with a town mindest would misinterpret what I meant.
Let me break it down.

1. You say "I don't see scum in this top 5/6 teir of the activity list btw"
2. I disagree. I say it's highly unlikely that all the top volume posters are town, on the premise alone that scum would not allow town to dictate the game's trajectory by mostly just lurking. If there are active town posters, scum will usually interject and derail unless there is TvT aggro.
3. You say "You think there's a town block in the top 5 LMAO?"
4. That is clearly not what I said.

More votes on superbowl required

Choo Choo Choo!

No no no you are misunderstanding what I said. When I say you think there's a townblock I mean you think there's some townblock that

can

be created within the top 5 that scum needs to stop, not that there actually is one operating right now. Maybe it would have been better phrased as "you think theres a townbock to be prevented within the top 5/6".

[superbowl9]

i get feelin whys every one tslking

Mmmm more expert analysis. I'm on the edge of my seat

[Lapsa]

@superbowl9 so you flipped on zhukov, ay?

[superbowl9]

Regarding MM the reason I cued in on this IIoA thing is because I used to play the same way a while ago, which is just put out very noncontroversial and logically sound statements to just build up this image of a very towny player, since I'm posting things everyone will agree with.

The issue is with this approach in a large is that it leads to lots of big information posts that lead to very few conclusions and actionable statements, and since we already have large amounts of content to pore through it's tough to read through a whole wall just to get that MM agrees with something someone already said. Also it's a great way to hide your alignment behind generally correct and innocuous statements so it makes you harder to read (which can be good for MM but bad for the rest of us).

[superbowl9]

@superbowl9 so you flipped on zhukov, ay?

Who's zhukov and actually who are you

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hmm. Glitch, you’re the master of IIOA here. Is MM scum using it to seem townie?

[I Keep Siteflaking]

Why are we voting superbowl?

[Bell]

Scum hate the Super Bowl.

[Pickaxe Pete]

It could be a paranoia vote.
I used to stick my vote on players I felt were good at manipulating me early game.

Are you talking about your Marshmallow vote or the NoPowerOverMe vote referenced in the post above yours?

And why did you feel the need in 387 to state that you like your Marshmallow vote?

I think I missed the response to these questions.

[Pickaxe Pete]

Oh look that's me I think

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Four balloons to you.

[Glitch]

naw, we were talking about

So far today I'll be cool with serious wagons forming on Nero, MM depending on response, or Norway

like one of the first things he did was attack me for voting norway. So it was wierd to me (and I think someone else, CSF?) that he was calling me scum but also willing to wagon the guy that he was chainsaw defending.

Why is it hard to understand this?:

Glitch believes Norway is scummy for reasons X
Nero believes Norway is scummy for reasons Y
Glitch believes reasons X are genuine
Glitch believes reasons Y are a poor argument that are scum indicative

Why does it make me scummy to believe your argument against Norway is bad, while still holding my own thoughts on why he is scummy that are different from yours?

Also, what did I specifically say that constitutes chainsaw defending Norway?

[Glitch]

Hmm. Glitch, you’re the master of IIOA here. Is MM scum using it to seem townie?

Come on now, I've been doing real good on that since Nauci called me on it in 2149 MM seems like an excited newbie in the later half of the game so far. I had a scum lean there at first but it's nulling out the more fluff he posts, not because he's posting townie stuff but because it's such fluff I can't make heads or tails of him.

[Glitch]

its a glitch, ofc its bad.

but also he's calling me scum for attcking norway but also said that he'd be willing to wagon/lynch norway and the mental gymnastics needed for that is mind boggling. Only a few ppl have called him on it and he hasn't offred an explanation so it looks like scum ignoring something potential damming in hopes that it goes away.

This is what I mean when I say you're arguing in bad faith. 559 was a literal wall explaining what you claim is mental gymnastics when in reality, it's simple. SR's are independent of each other. With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals. I could have released some of my SR of you by this time because of some of the things you have said but your continued attacks like these that misrepresent and build straw man arguments against me have me convinced you're scum.

[Bell]

It could be a paranoia vote.
I used to stick my vote on players I felt were good at manipulating me early game.

Are you talking about your Marshmallow vote or the NoPowerOverMe vote referenced in the post above yours?

And why did you feel the need in 387 to state that you like your Marshmallow vote?

I think I missed the response to these questions.

Sorry missed this.
1. I was talking about Norwe’s vote on me.
2. Trying to keep attention there. Since I think it’s an interesting wagon/interesting response.

[Bell]

I like your Jackson vote btw.

[Glitch]

Someone asked me for my case on Norway and I can't find that post to quote it anymore but whoever asked that, here's my answer:

In general, unless you’re really, really, really sure you know that player is scum you don’t shoot n1.

We need early vig shoots because right now we’re fighting the wagon dynamics almost more than scum itself. I played in a large 50 game before and we needed 26 votes to get a lynch in D1. Do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to convince 26 people to lynch a player?
We need to lower the player pool ASAP, and hopefully by eliminating scum along the way.

I don't like Norway's motivation this game. He was town in the last game I played with him and his morale was up the whole game. I don't like the whole idea of lowering the player pool being top priority right now even at the cost of town deaths. Seems haphazard and wreckless which isn't the Norway I played with last time. Also:

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

I love naked votes.

Is this going to be one of those games.

Nero just spill why you're voting me, i'm not up for your games. Get it over with.

Because i wanna know why you're voting me.

I get the impression you're not a big fan of naked votes from these posts and you prefer people to have reason behind their votes. But then you proceed to naked vote Bell right here:

Anyway let's stop talking about that. It will just waste time.
I'm reconsidering Stan based on NPOM's statement on them so i'll go back here for now. VOTE: Bell

Why is there no more information than this? Are you just returning to your early game SR of Bell? Why have you mentioned nothing of your read on Bell from early on and then you just return to it?

Additionally, your self-meta here does not account for the fact that while personalities do transcend alignments, there is something to be said for playstyle changes according to alignment that you are leaving out:

I can show you numerous examples of town!me reacting to a vote on me i find unfairly or a scumread of me that is unjustified. Even if it's just one.
As scum i usually completely ignore.
I have done the complete opposite of what scum!me would do in this situation.

norway, you understand that ppl are going to scum read you for getting defensive, right?

It doesn’t matter. I can’t change the way i play. I’m always concious and sensitive to people’s reads on me. This isn’t a scum thing either. I always am like that.

I'm conscientious and sensitive to people's reads on me too, but when I'm scum I have to work even harder to hold myself together and not crack under the pressure. As town the pressure is off, so there will certainly be a difference in playstyle. I get more worked up as town. How are you different when you're town vs when you're scum? That's what I'm looking for. You want us to believe so badly that you play the same with both alignments but I just don't believe it.

[Nero Cain]

With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals.

this is literally scum logic. He's not worried about figuring out the dynamics-he just wants lynches. Unless he thinks Norway and I are scum together he can't think norway and I are both scum and he's like "naw, not worried about that."

[Glitch]

With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals.

this is literally scum logic. He's not worried about figuring out the dynamics-he just wants lynches. Unless he thinks Norway and I are scum together he can't think norway and I are both scum and he's like "naw, not worried about that."

You have a better chance of dying IRL than winning the lottery.

Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

[Nero Cain]

Why does it make me scummy to believe your argument against Norway is bad, while still holding my own thoughts on why he is scummy that are different from yours?

you can, I don't care but the problem here is that you can't think both Norway and I are scum at the same time.

Also, what did I specifically say that constitutes chainsaw defending Norway?

chainsaw defending is attacking the player that's attacking the player. I was voting Norway and you attacked me for attacking him-it is literally the definition.

[Glitch]

Nero Cain's case on Norway

Glitch's case on Norway

How it is scummy for me to think your case is bullshit and alignment indicative of you, while simultaneously believing my case is decent enough to have a case? My case is like 6.5/10. Your's is like 2/10. I can have a SL on Norway and a SR on you, and then when one of you are eliminated, it will help me go back and evaluate your content to get a clearer read on the other player who we didn't eliminate. No speculation on if you're a scum team needed as that won't get us anywhere. If you're a scum team or not is irrelevant until one of you flips.

P-edit after 672 hit

Oh I didn't know that chainsaw defending actually had a meaning like that. I thought you just meant I was viciously defending Norway and I was like WTF I never did anything of the sort. lol.

I understand that it wouldn't make a ton of sense for both of you to be scum together. I also understand that I don't know for a fact what either of your alignments are. Just that you're both pinging me as my top SRs so one of you needs to hold my vote. I understand if I'm right about one of you that means I'm probably wrong about the other but until one of you flips I have no way to tell which is which,

except to evaluate both of you based on your own actions, not the actions of each other,

which therefore leaves me with SR'ing you more than Norway because of how you've handled my "vanity vote" on you and the many things I've pointed out about you arguing in bad faith.

[Nero Cain]

With no flips and 5498674596 players, I am not pushing associations and scum teams. I am pushing individuals.

this is literally scum logic. He's not worried about figuring out the dynamics-he just wants lynches. Unless he thinks Norway and I are scum together he can't think norway and I are both scum and he's like "naw, not worried about that."

You have a better chance of dying IRL than winning the lottery.

Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

this fool is quoting the wiki to try to make his argument seem correct and authoritative. There's a HUGE diffrence between "calling the scum team" and calling two players scum that can't possibly be scum together. If you think im scum AND don't think we are scum together then you have to think he's town. period. These are things town think about "this guy is attacking this guy so I'm prob wrong" you are absolutly not thinking about that. You are lynch first then I'll decide and thats not town.