Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[tris]

Either you were bus drove or Hya’s lying and first one sounds iffy and second, extremely unlikely.

Gamma’s probably already given up. I admit from a purely emotional pov, I would prefer him today but Hya is saying you weren’t bus driven to Amy, so that is literally the only way you’re not guiltied and occams razer says that’s unlikely but she says that’s impossible and I don’t see why he’d lie.

Plus, why wouldn’t Maria have confirmed to both of us your “I do”, why just you? I was expecting Dunn to confirm your conditional bg on us being real and I think it would have been confirmed if it were true. I asked specifically to have both the “I do” thing confirmed and your part in submitting it and was told the mods couldn’t confirm any of it and now you’ve gotten confirmation of our “I do” but we’ve still gotten absolutely nothing.

I just think if your conditional bg was real, I wouldn’t have gotten the response that the mods couldn’t answer any of it. Why wouldn’t they have just backed you up if true? And why would either or Hya need to have done that anyway? Like in what world would either Hya or myself refuse the “I do”? No one in their right mind rehects a bg offer. And now you’re saying Hya isn’t protected but I am?

~M

it has to happen each night. hya was protected the first night.

why would you refuse? because you don't trust me maybe. like what if you're agreeing to something bad?

Wait, so Hya was only protected N1 according to you and us LAST night? So, neither Hya or us are protected tonight, assuming this isn’t completely bogus, which I have serious doubts about anyway.

BEF should optimally self-direct a commute on himself today, since he has no NAs tonight and KD has made it abundantly clear he has no interest in being neighbourized. Tris cant re-neighbourize either Hya or us and she’s pushing FL, so that completely destroys Hya’s argument for fading an exonerated slot over Tris.

Why am I literally the only one to consistently catch these things?

each night that we PM the "I do" it happens

Can it work on more than 1 person?

it works with the people i've neighborized

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

Why not? He did claim Fool as his actual flavour.

Also, who do you think FL’s hypothetical buddy is then? Based of of EoD D2 interactions and based off of what we’ve seen so far today, it sure as hell doesn’t look like it’s Gamma.

~M

And what motive does scum!FL have to kill Amy here - a slot that was hard townreading him and also a slot that he had damn good reason to have no fear from her N2 NAs?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Took the weekend off. Needed it. Think I should be a lot more clear-headed now.

Flavor Leaf claim is certainly fakeable but it's not something I'm concerned about right now because it should make itself fairly confirmable sooner or later. If I get venged for some reason I promise to be a nuisance from beyond the grave if this chat's real - hopefully that'll at least get us a confirmed villager out of all of this (and hopefully the lack of me being a nuisance confirms a wolf, should that be the case).

Claiming that me hypothesizing 4 wolves is a TMI slip is dumb because that would require there to actually

be

four wolves, which it seems I've been hard shot down on (and I've pretty much coming around to agreeing with those who are doing the shooting).

Requesting that we hold hammer until at least the end of tomorrow. Would like to spend some time realtiming.

I don't think I was super crazy about tris's reaction to her/me suddenly being sussed as a team? And I think I pointed out earlier that her flip on me is super weird.

The bolded clearly indicates that Amy had 0 intention of using her NA on FL, so I find it highly unlikely that he would kill her based off of this. In fact, this post points to FL NOT killing Amy. She is explicitly claiming that her silence post-flip confiscums him, where as her being a “nuisance”, confitowns him and proves his role. Scum!FL would have to be an absolute idiot to kill Amy here, so I think this post could be interpreted as a soft inno on FL.

~M

[BrightEyedFish]

I could self commute I guess but I am also entertaining the idea about possibly stopping the NK, assuming 2 scum left. For that to work we would most likely need a scum flip today and I guess right on the remaining one. However, I would have to choose a target before we reach a fade.

Also, scum could also holster the NK and frame the commuted target.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

i just don't think the why i've talked about amy is something i would be able to fake when reading a partner as mafia. but, that's probably not useful for you. as that's self meta.

Who do you think is scum if NM flips red and who, if he flips green?

~M

he better flip red, because otherwise i'm townreading way too much. I haven't really considered that world that much.

If he flips green, then maybe Gamma? that's mostly because i've forgotten about why i was townreading him. And my reasons for townreading others feel firmer. oh and there's also jjh. i still need to go reread gamma as well as others but i'm mostly waiting on the flip before i do that.

all of that was kind of ignoring FL, which i have a tendency to do because he makes my brain hurt sometimes, but also, i know some ways he might be confirmed, so i'm not worrying about that too much. although, i am a little suspicious of the claim.

But please explain to me why a slot that has been 100% cleared of being the reason for Amy dying ought to be faded over you and who do you think we ought to fade if NOT you?

Now I realize that it wasn’t you who is advocating for Gamma being faded, that was Hya. So, who do you think we should fade?

~M

flavor leaf. i don't buy the whole jester thing

So what happened between now and then to make FL’s role any less confirmable to you?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I could self commute I guess but I am also entertaining the idea about possibly stopping the NK, assuming 2 scum left. For that to work we would most likely need a scum flip today and I guess right on the remaining one. However, I would have to choose a target before we reach a fade.

Also, scum could also holster the NK and frame the commuted target.

Yes that is possible but I think a roleblocked Gamma makes a no kill extremely likely, whether he is actually scum here or not because if Gamma isn’t scum, than scum would have to be an idiot not to no kill in order to frame him.

No one in their right mind would try to frame you here, so I think you self-directing would pretty much nip that in the bud but I think it’s extremely likely we get a no kill one way or another with Gamma roleblock, so it’s an extremely smart call on FL’s part to make and hopefully puts us in a better position, so long as we fade correctly today and I really can’t see how anyone but Tris killed Amy here. You roleblocked Gamma, so he’s clear. Amy soft inno’d FL with her post and I hard tr you, KD and Hya, so who else kills Amy here if not Tris?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hey, @Tris, any chance you could give us a current readslist of yours? Is FL your only scumread? Anyone else you’re suspicious of and why?

Also, can you think of anyone who had more reason to kill Amy than you? because based off of both Hya Amy track as well as Amy ISO, you clearly have the most Amy kill equity here.

Thanks to BEF we know you couldn’t have been bus driven so Gamma’s 100% clear and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

So, if both Gamma and FL are off the table, you do you think we should fade today if not you?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Hey, @Tris, any chance you could give us a current readslist of yours? Is FL your only scumread? Anyone else you’re suspicious of and why?

Also, can you think of anyone who had more reason to kill Amy than you? because based off of both Hya Amy track as well as Amy ISO, you clearly have the most Amy kill equity here.

Thanks to BEF we know you couldn’t have been bus driven so Gamma’s 100% clear and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

So, if both Gamma and FL are off the table, you do you think we should fade today if not you?

~M

And they both should damn well be off of the table today, because fading either one is very likely gamethrowing.

If I have to restate why: Gamma is cleared from killing Amy and Amy’s post soft innos FL.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

[Flavor Leaf]

How is Gamma clear...?

There’s 2 scum, if Tris is scum, Gamma is not cleared.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, I get it!

Unless Gamma’s a traitor, he’s cleared probably

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, I guess BEF/Gamma is a possibility

[Flavor Leaf]

Thinking about it, there were 2 redirecting, a couple roleblocks, even if one of those are scum, scum with a strongman like “even night strongman” changes everything.

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

How is Gamma clear...?

There’s 2 scum, if Tris is scum, Gamma is not cleared.

No, you misunderstood. I never said Gamma can’t be scum only that he couldn’t have killed Amy. That’s not at all the same thing.

Gamma can still be scum, I just think we should kill the slot who most likely killed Amy.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Oh, I get it!

Unless Gamma’s a traitor, he’s cleared probably

I guess that’s a possibility?

I mean specifically wrt to Amy kill. Ftr, I actually think his odd modifier makes sense because Amy, BEF are both evens and jjh’s Arcana investigative thing looks like an odd, given he didn’t have an Arcana guess in his message N2 but he did on N1.

I just think Tris fade makes the most sense today, both because of Hya Amy track and Amy ISO.

~M

[Flavor Leaf]

If they’re strongman, they can, but I’m leaning more towards GammaTown lately anyways

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Actually, I guess BEF/Gamma is a possibility

Why does scum!BEF ever roleblock Gamma in the first place? Wouldn’t he have rb’d Hya. Amy or me > Gamma?

Do you read the D1 Tris post I quoted? I think that’s a scumpost, voting us but calling DnD scum, who were scumreading us?

And her whole bg protect claim has holes as big as freaking craters. Also, she was in absolutely no hurry to fade you until Hya tracked Amy to her and she just pops in to make a minor comment here and there and never really responds to my major points.

So, I definitely think Tris is very likely scum here, so whether or not Gamma’s scum, I think BEF is pretty much clear. BEF/Gamma interactions don’t look like buddies and BEF/DnD 100% don’t.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Thinking about it, there were 2 redirecting, a couple roleblocks, even if one of those are scum, scum with a strongman like “even night strongman” changes everything.

Oh you’re right, I hadn’t even considered that, so BEF’s rb might not 100% clear Gamma but Amy ISO + Hya Amy track still point to Tris and I find the whole neighbour protect “I do” think really fishy, primarily because the mods still won’t confirm it and Tris claims Hya’s happened N1 and mine N2 but as we know, scum still killed on both nights and yeah, I really don’t see who had more Amy kill equity than Tris, both because Amy used her self-redirector on her + Amy was very clearly gunning for Tris, so Tris killing Amy imo makes way more sense than Gamma strongman killing her. I also hard tr BEF.

You make some really good points though. Even if Gamma’s BD is very likely to be odd night, if he did actually have a strongman, I guess he wouldn’t be clear from that but I 100% believe BEF did rb him and believes it went through in any case.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

If they’re strongman, they can, but I’m leaning more towards GammaTown lately anyways

Yeah, he didn’t seem to know about the hoods or how Tris’ neighbourizing thing works but that especially clears BEF because the rb looks the worst for Tris.

Problem for me is, I’m pretty sure Tris is scum but really have no idea who’s her buddy, so if it’s not Gamma, we are possibly looking at a deep wolf. It’s never KD or BEF imo. I don’t think it’s Hya but I don’t understand her wanting to avenge Amy by killing Gamma, when he claimed to track Amy to Tris?

Is that making any sense to you at all?

@Hya, why do you want Gamma dead today when you tracked Amy to Tris?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

I literally claimed a modifier that DIDN’T ALLOW ME to act last night
Are you saying I’m lying? Because I said why lying made no sense, my role has similar function to Amphy’s, and odd-night means whenever I can’t act she can and vice versa.

I am saying whether or not you are lying Tris is scum so I don't care?
Why are you offended I am considering both worlds lol.

my track has lower value then FLs public roleblock correct?
Scum can play around both but I think his role trumps mine now that I am outed and can just get shot.

Although I guess if we go for Gamma then technically Tris is body guarding me if we trust that.

Sorry, I think I misread your post, you obviously don’t think a Gamma fade makes more sense today than a Tris one, correct?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

Strong FOS on 657. When do you ever vote with your scumreads or rather vote your sr’s PoE?

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

initial thoughts:
- townlean on Hayasaka, her panic over possibly-gladiating Kaname sounds genuine
- agree with Cakes on not liking pooky's vote on prune after the joke had, like, already ended
- I like kaname's vote/opinion on dr. pepper; townlean on kaname as well.
- fish fluffposting is bad
- Flavor Leaf's scumread on tris is ??? this makes no sense:

Spoiler: @FL

Also, I understand why people would town read tris, at least after where I was in my catchup when I made that post which is why I wasn't going to bring it up quite yet. The main point from my initial post regarding Tris was the timing of whoever said they were townie vibes, because that came before I started to be able to see some town sides in Tris, but then we got positioned onto tris moreso than my actual questioning of this

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

The post was actually me pushing something off about Ampharos, not Tris.

when you were questioned on your tris read, you said it was really an ampharos read, but in 121 you said that tris "screamed" scum. Why would you say that directly after 120 if you weren't using 120 to develop your tris read? What else in tris's ISO, then, were you calling scummy?

It feels like FL is like weirdly positioning himself around both ampharos and tris with 120/121

- am on board with gamma wagon

I made it to page 9, have to run unfortunately. More later!

- Daenerys

Extremely bizarre post. DnD throws shade on FL for his Tris/Amy reads but still wants Gamma, probably because they know FL isn’t scum, so they push Gamma instead.


Hmmmmm . . .

I really want Tris today.

and I’m spiritually voting her. I would just really like to figure out her buddy in case I die but Tris!scum + our positive result on FL make think his dead chat probably is real.

I’m probably reading someone wrong but can’t figure out whom. :/

but it’s very unlikely to be Tris.

~M

[Venus Mars and Pluto]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Venus and Mars and Pluto

what if you did just answer 282?
please thank you very much.

you seem to be pushing similar things as I am, but we’re in your POE. Can you explain why we’re in your POE?

- Daenerys

cause i don't have any reason to believe you're town. i do plan to look through your iso soon, so watch this space

So @Tris, if DnD was in your PoE and they were sr us, why did you vote us here?

Don’t you generally take mindmelding to be a sign of being the same alignment?

If you “don’t have any reason to believe [DnD] are town”, than doesn’t it make logical sense that you’re vote be on them not us?

How does this progression on either us or DnD make any sense to you here?

~M

Strong FOS on 657. When do you ever vote with your scumreads or rather vote your sr’s PoE?

~M

initial thoughts:
- townlean on Hayasaka, her panic over possibly-gladiating Kaname sounds genuine
- agree with Cakes on not liking pooky's vote on prune after the joke had, like, already ended
- I like kaname's vote/opinion on dr. pepper; townlean on kaname as well.
- fish fluffposting is bad
- Flavor Leaf's scumread on tris is ??? this makes no sense:

Also, I understand why people would town read tris, at least after where I was in my catchup when I made that post which is why I wasn't going to bring it up quite yet. The main point from my initial post regarding Tris was the timing of whoever said they were townie vibes, because that came before I started to be able to see some town sides in Tris, but then we got positioned onto tris moreso than my actual questioning of this

light v read on tris for not realizing a joke rvs vote was a joke rvs vote

Interesting, I kinda got off vibes from tris from their acknowledgement of me. Albeit true, it feels like they were setting up a

Gamefic

, a fact and comment that is used to support a gamestate world where certain things get pushed into a narrative fact.

While I do have a strong presence in games, I found it odd for Tris to bring that up during my first string of posting, especially because I've been offsite for months. I don't know, it felt subtly manipulative in a harmless way, which is what scum actually do rather than what people think scum do, if that makes sense.

I wasn't going to say anything about it because it's so early in the game, but seeing an exact opposite read, even if it was for a different reason was weird and I want it on record that I found it weird.

The post was actually me pushing something off about Ampharos, not Tris.

when you were questioned on your tris read, you said it was really an ampharos read, but in 121 you said that tris "screamed" scum. Why would you say that directly after 120 if you weren't using 120 to develop your tris read? What else in tris's ISO, then, were you calling scummy?

It feels like FL is like weirdly positioning himself around both ampharos and tris with 120/121

- am on board with gamma wagon

I made it to page 9, have to run unfortunately. More later!

- Daenerys

Extremely bizarre post. DnD throws shade on FL for his Tris/Amy reads but still wants Gamma, probably because they know FL isn’t scum, so they push Gamma instead.


Hmmmmm . . .
~M

Tris is doing a very similar thing in 657 as DnD did in 292.

~M

[BrightEyedFish]

Actually, I guess BEF/Gamma is a possibility

Suggesting I am scum at this point just lowers the stock of your other reads.