Musician Mafia: Guitarists GAME OVER

[Titus]

@Flip,

I waffle between ending the day and getting a counterwagon to IKS.

[Starbuck]

I need to do a deeper dive on Looker, Lavender, Bambi, Walter, A50, Gamma, and Bright so I can get rid of all the null in my field of vision.

Reading Looker, he seems like he's somewhat paying attention and his questions/interactions (how little they may be) feel genuine. He's still null to me because I need more information, but I wouldn't want to shred him today.


Reading Lavender, it's a ton of fluff. Maybe an interaction here or there, but more avoiding interaction or posting to give an excuse. Almost opposite of Looker, I'd say. I'd add Lavender to my shredpool, though I don't think we're looking that direction today. I'm hoping, in the mean time, they come back and to redeem their lackluster performance thus far.


Reading Bambi, she has more content than the previous 2. There's a good mix of fluff/non-scumhunting with actual game talk, as well as a crumb. All in all, Bambi is coming off as genuine to me, thus far. However, I'll be holding her to this promise. So I'll stick Bambi in a null-ish town kinda spot.


Reading Walter, he's contributed a lot more than I originally thought to include driving conversation, asking questions, and interacting. I don't really have many concerns here, but I'm interested in the fact that he's calling himself out for stuff that he's doing, such as 726 and 742. I'm not sure if this is a way to try and gain town cred as scum or genuine self-evaluation given his join date. I'm going with the latter and am sorting Walter to my town reads.


Reading A50, there's a lot of fluff/spam throughout his ISO. So far, I'm up to ISO 27 and there's maybe been 2 actual game-related ones. His 492 sticks out to me because of the shade that he's throwing. I think it was already confirmed that scum have daytalk, so why, if both are scum, would Walter need to coach in thread? In any case, this post didn't give me the greatest of feelings. More spammy/fluff posts before he admits in 983 that he not only accepts Titus' null read but readily admits his spamming as being "clearly present." You can be clearly present and be doing absolutely nothing. This might actually be worse than Galron and IKS put together and has moved A50 clearly into my shredpool.


Reading Bright, he is here and scumhunting which is a positive. He says, almost out of the gate, that he town reads A50. Having read A50's ISO before doing Bright's just now, I'm not sure how he got that right off the bat. Then we get to his vote and lame case on me in 830, I already responded to this in 840 but I haven't forgotten about it. I do appreciate his insight on IKS in 1224, as I've been a bit lost on that wagon and I think I'm sold on that shred today.


As for Gamma, they have 90 something posts and I need a break for a little.

[davesaz]

my bad then.

What were you doing such that you made the post that way?

I know what it looks like to me. Not gonna muddy since the actual answer could be different.

[Starbuck]

I need to do a deeper dive on Looker, Lavender, Bambi, Walter, A50, Gamma, and Bright so I can get rid of all the null in my field of vision.

Have fun. Won't take long.

It took longer than I thought actually and I still need to deep dive Gamma and maybe Pooky, too.

More likely Galron is your scum buddy. I'm not buying your story.

Why do you think this about Iec? I'd like a case to back this accusation up, please.

I've been working on two things all of D1:
1. Trying to suss out the assumption i had earlier
2. Getting rid of lurkers

At this point, I just want to get out of D1. All the discussions and arguments feel like circular logic, nothing much seems to be changing. Let's just get a few flips and go from there.

Where are you at with your assumption? If you care to share?

On your second point, I'd disagree. There are a handful of arguments feeling circular (me and Titus for one of them), but I feel like there has been some engaging discussion. With all that on the table, we just need to decide on our most worthwhile shred.


Big +1 to the entirety of Dave's 1298 and I appreciate Galron's rebuttal in 1299. Please, Galron, more of that and your preceding posts thereafter!

UNVOTE: Galron

[Iecerint]

@chkflp:

A. Regarding NPOM's alignment, I think he is scum based on:

1. Scumslips in game (cf., an allusion to idiosyncratic mod communication).
2. Active lurking as a response to scrutiny (rather than scumhunting or outrage)
3. Switching to facile "scumhunting" after players started to point out that he was not scumhunting (e.g., Galron's comment about NPOM's quoted thing on this page is related to NPOM doing stuff LIKE that repeatedly and reflects that it has been an ongoing pattern).

Tbf there is pretty broad agreement in thread that NPOM is scum to scummy (I think BrightEyedFish is the main exception that comes to mind). The main reason NOT to shred NPOM has nothing to do with NPOM, and is instead based on how much credence you give to Rudeboy outguessing the mod. Here's all of Rudeboy's posts about this topic:

Spoiler:

NPOM- you don't care about being voted.

Are there other people in the game who are aware of your role flavour?

Gamma- I have my reasons.

And I highly suggest everyone unvote NPOM

I'm telling you guys. You don't want to lynch NPOM

Anyone fancy a good ol' fashioned massclaim?

if locktown is a band. it is a ska band, and i have dibs on drummer/

once more, get those votes off NPOM

Clarification- Not protecting NPOM. Information and a hunch makes me think there are more beneficial people to lynch.

And it is connected to why I'm saying don't vote NPOM, and why I asked looker the same question.

I think NPOM (and to an extent TPhaine) are both playing emotionally reactive games after being prodded by Leia/Pooky.

My own suspicions for not thinking NPOM is scum, relate to the flavour of my role, and his desire to pretty much be killed regardless. Also, look at #292.
I have a hunch about the game mechanics, based on my role and flavor. The question I have asked of NPOM, T, and Looker are directly related to trying to figure if my assumption is correct or not.

If you get lynched, and it verifies my assumptions, I still can't tell if that's positive or negative.

If only there was a way for someone to not care, give up, get lynched, and win...

god damn NPOM. you reaaaalllly aren't doing yourself any favors. which makes me think my assumption is more correct.

So, Rudeboy has basically been implying that based on his flavor he thinks NPOM is a jester, so we shouldn't lynch him. (In some of his posts he broadens this hypothesis to thinking that it's a role with an idiosyncratic response to being shredded more generally, but most of his posts imply jester.)

Now, I DO think that there's something that Rudeboy is reacting to, and that a person who is looking at whatever he's seeing can understand what it is. The reason for this is that apparently multiple players in the game (e.g., Looker and TiphaineDeath) are connected to it (cf., Rudeboy's posts above saying as much). The other players have not engaged with Rudeboy around this really, but they would have obviously said "lolno" if Rudeboy were totally fabricating whatever he's reacting to. So, I don't think that Rudeboy is fabricating it.

But COME ON. There's not a jester in a large game! There just isn't! That's not the kind of "bastard" that 2020 "bastard" mods put in large games. Micros, sure. Minis, maybe. Large? No way! If it does end up getting used, the mechanic either doesn't come into play, or it ends the game in an anticlimax! It's a silly idea to think about (e.g., in the sense "Oh man, wouldn't it be hilarious if the large game ended with a jester win. LOL!"), but it's not a thing that actually happens, because of the attitude that mods take toward their games. Further, as the day has gone on and players started to comment on NPOM not scumhunting, instead of continuing with his active lurking behavior and garnering votes, he started with the "fake scumhunting" pattern I described above, and that Galron alludes to on this page (e.g., because it's part of a pattern). So, over time, his behavior has diverged farther from the "jester" formulation and closer to the "blending in/meeting needs so as not be scumread"/scummy pattern.

B. Regarding why I am voting NPOM, regardless of what I think about his alignment/hints that now is not the time for a vanity wagon, etc:

1. I am honestly still optimistic that we could shred him, because I think his behavior continues to evidence a scum alignment and players continue to post that they recognize it, even though at the time that you quoted me I was voting him alone.
2. I think he's the most likely scum.
3. The difficulty of his wagon despite the rhetoric against him further supports his likely scum alignment (this is partially explain-awayable by Rudeboy's phantom jester).
4. I am not afraid of the phantom jester.

I've stated my preferred alternative shreds (Walter > IKS). I have a subtle preference for Walter because I think he's more likely scum than IKS, but IKS will be less likely to contribute to the game in a useful way (kinda the inverse logic of what I said about Galron), and I think NPOM is more likely scum than either of them by a fair margin (due to play, wagon speed, reasons listed above, etc).

NB: If NPOM flips scum, I would be REALLY suspicious of DGB. It's VERY UNUSUAL for her to ignore someone who protects someone for outguessing flavor on D1. Her avoidance of NPOM all day is out of character for her.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: NPOM Yeah, sorry rudeboi, I'm no longer sufficiently impressed by your "information," to continue to allow this to live.

VOTE: TD
This vote is garbage.

I was looking at Titus's iso based on her post to chkflp on this page to check her NPOM history and saw this, which reminded me that TD (who presumably has access to the same information as Rudeboy, based on Rudeboy's posts) doesn't buy it.

Titus, wanna join me? Feel any different by now?

[Iecerint]

my bad then.

What were you doing such that you made the post that way?

I know what it looks like to me. Not gonna muddy since the actual answer could be different.

(Same.)

[Starbuck]

1. Let's not rehash and get into circles here.

2. I am not satisfied because it's my gut that says something's off and different. I also don't recall spring being that toxic.

3-4. Well if you're trying to see where my head is at...ask about a specific read?

6. I can look at the wagons and guess. That's not VCA though. I hate when players ask for a Day 1 VCA. That's not how it works.

I might just need to sig that.

1. Fine

2. This feels borderline gaslighty. I know you replaced ABR, who actually PM'd me to ask if I'd join and play that game, who just as toxic as spring. So it's boggling me as to why you can't remember how toxic spring was to me, Pink Ball, farside, etc. She was banned shortly thereafter. The whole situation (ABR PMing me to join + his toxicity and spring's toxicity) had me questioning why I even came back to the site in the first place. I spent that entire game on the defensive and really didn't find much enjoyment, but didn't want to replace out because I was so stoked to play with farside. So, again, I'm not sure why you keep bringing this game up when I've already told you multiple times why I would have a different feel there, even as the same alignment. I'd really like this subject to cease.

3-4. As of right now, the fact that this is the push you keep riding on, rather than giving actually insight to this game, has me not having much else nice to say to you at the moment. You're still in my null pile because I don't know where to put you, but so much of your content seems forced and then you keep riding this whole thing to do with Weakest Link doesn't have me feeling good. You came out swinging about how I don't feel the same to you, but dang, where is the Titus that I've seen in past games because you're not the on-the-ball Titus that I've grown to know.

6. I was being facetious.

[Starbuck]

Well I asked ya to ask I questions, and I guess you took that the wrong way hah~

The Beetlejuice is real around here, which means you're reading and keeping up, but not contributing on purpose.

Redeem yourself with some contributions, some reads, and your general feel about the game. Who do you think is scum? Who should be our shred #1 today?


FYI, I'm not liking the policy push coming from rudeboy.

[Starbuck]

Dang Iec, that 1354 is pure awesome.

And yes, I'd much prefer NPOM over anyone else today.


VOTE: NPOM

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree on 1354 there plus if npom is jester I assume he just wins as a separate wincon.

[Almost50]

I see people have FINALLY deciphered rudeboy's read on MPO<. That is one step forward. What I don't see is why we are considering the elimination of a Jester on D1.

So, unless it's crunch time and that is the only viable wagon I don't think I will join it.

[Iecerint]

I agree on 1354 there plus if npom is jester I assume he just wins as a separate wincon.

If you agree that NPOM is the most likely scum and can be lynched, vote for him with me.

[WaltertheDunce10]

I agree on 1354 there plus if npom is jester I assume he just wins as a separate wincon.

If you agree that NPOM is the most likely scum and can be lynched, vote for him with me.

Alright, VOTE: npom

[Iecerint]

I see people have FINALLY deciphered rudeboy's read on MPO<. That is one step forward. What I don't see is why we are considering the elimination of a Jester on D1.

So, unless it's crunch time and that is the only viable wagon I don't think I will join it.

1. BECAUSE HE'S NOT A JESTER. Jesus, did you

read

the post you described as "one step forward"?
2. I posted about this (admittedly more vaguely because I felt awkward due to Rudeboy's vagueness) about 20 pages ago! This isn't new!
3. And like...if it's been obvious to you all along, surely you get that?

[NoPowerOverMe]

I am Town. IKS is a much better wagon.

[NoPowerOverMe]

The people voting me are doing so on personal bias(starbuck) or OMGUS(ice). Let's lynch actual scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

its actually wild how scummy npom is

VOTE: NPOM

if its a jester it never was on our side to begin with so w/e

[NoPowerOverMe]

You're just making things up.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

most of the time yes

this time? no

[Iecerint]

The people voting me are doing so on personal bias(starbuck) or OMGUS(ice). Let's lynch actual scum.

This is demonstrably false.

1. Starbuck was the person who noticed your allusion to aberrant mod communcation, which is not personal bias. She states the vote is based at least in part on my post. Neither of these is "personal bias."
2. I voted you based on your scummy response to scrutiny from Starbuck before you had made any comments about me (cf., my long post above). Your attacks on me have been subsequent to that. Therefore, my scumread on you is not OMGUS -- instead, your attacks on me are an OMGUS pattern. (I don't buy OMGUS as a scumtell, so it's not mentioned above. YMMV.)

[a2rudeboy]

so, nothing from 1342 ?

[Starbuck]

so, nothing from 1342 ?

The mod hasn't been here, so nothing until he arrives, I guess?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

screw it... Let's rip the band aid and hope its scum.

Dayvig: I Keep Siteflaking

I almost forgot about this

DAYDOC: IKS

[Galron]

1354 is on point from Iecerint.

VOTE: NPOM