im not a fan of this approach but wont labour the point. I think you should see this lack of support as increasing the likelihood of BM-scum, rather than reducing it. Why do you suppose some of the people defending me are not my partners?In post 994, MURDERCAT wrote:In post 961, Jewel Barons wrote:I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do
-GAMMA
Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor
Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
i did answer that already. it was entirely his defence of me, which made little sense from him as scum (both in terms of timing, and the explanation given).In post 998, Infinity 324 wrote:
What changed on your egotisi read?In post 916, Battle Mage wrote:
I really like that townblock. Suggest you swap me and Isis, and I can actually roll with that.In post 851, PlusJOYED wrote: I'm setting up a townblock with me, exorcist, egotisi and isis. I trust their judgment.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Exorcists Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 78
- Joined: October 12, 2020
In post 970, Noraa wrote:
I would normally consider this AtE but I've felt this recently so I actually vibe with it more.In post 962, Battle Mage wrote:BM gets frustrated/sad and stops trying hardIn post 973, Noraa wrote:
I am not v confident there. I agree Taylor been acting fishy. I could see a scum!Taylor here as her normal town meta is nothing like this but I hate being SRed for shitty meta reasons that are really weak and like "this is not her town game" so I'm not gonna be one of those people.In post 971, Battle Mage wrote:noraa, you didnt take up my offer of joining the taylor wagon - talk to me about why?
Actually, these latest Noraa posts strike me as genuine. I may have to talk to my other heads about it.In post 975, Noraa wrote:I dont have any reasons for Taylor to be scum besides this isnt her normal town game and I'm not willing to use such a trash reason as some people here are using on me.
—Alice-
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Noraa ze/zirfluffy tsunamize/zir
- fluffy tsunami
- fluffy tsunami
- Posts: 14576
- Joined: August 23, 2020
- Pronoun: ze/zir
- Location: the fridge where the ice cream be
wrong. My SRs are all really independent.In post 990, Infinity 324 wrote:based primarily on how people voted you
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.
Isis I sussed when she dropped a SR on me for no apparent reason. Yes she said my posts were towny so she dropped them but 1)weak reason and 2)the posts weren't even townyDream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Joined: January 10, 2007
*shrug*In post 999, MURDERCAT wrote:UNVOTE:
Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere
you gonna join me on Taylor then or what?Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18337
- Joined: April 7, 2013
- Pronoun: they (pl.)
I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.In post 997, Battle Mage wrote:
Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!In post 993, Infinity 324 wrote:
@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:In post 960, MURDERCAT wrote:@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.
which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.In post 858, MURDERCAT wrote:
Say more? Respond to what I posted?In post 857, Noraa wrote:BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.
And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagementwith the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum. not to be persuaded I am town.
I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11708
- Joined: March 18, 2016
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Chicago
They are TRs or TRs of my TRs. This is why I was less convinced by Noraa and PlusIn post 1000, Battle Mage wrote:
im not a fan of this approach but wont labour the point. I think you should see this lack of support as increasing the likelihood of BM-scum, rather than reducing it. Why do you suppose some of the people defending me are not my partners?In post 994, MURDERCAT wrote:In post 961, Jewel Barons wrote:I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do
-GAMMA
Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11708
- Joined: March 18, 2016
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Chicago
I'll think about it, but I honestly haven't convinced myself one way of the other on Noraa. I think Plus is lean town FWIW aliceIn post 1004, Battle Mage wrote:
*shrug*In post 999, MURDERCAT wrote:UNVOTE:
Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere
you gonna join me on Taylor then or what?-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18337
- Joined: April 7, 2013
- Pronoun: they (pl.)
The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?In post 1003, Noraa wrote:
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.In post 990, Infinity 324 wrote:based primarily on how people voted you-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.In post 1006, Infinity 324 wrote:
I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.In post 997, Battle Mage wrote:
Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!In post 993, Infinity 324 wrote:
@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:In post 960, MURDERCAT wrote:@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.
which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.In post 858, MURDERCAT wrote:
Say more? Respond to what I posted?In post 857, Noraa wrote:BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.
And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagementwith the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum. not to be persuaded I am town.
I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.
To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?In post 1009, Infinity 324 wrote:
The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?In post 1003, Noraa wrote:
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.In post 990, Infinity 324 wrote:based primarily on how people voted youShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
Infinity - it's also probably worth adding, if your reasoning isn't resonating with me, it might also be because it isn't clear, and maybe discussing with me will help you get it into a better place.
Lots of value in having a little chat with old BM...Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Exorcists Townie
- Townie
- Townie
- Posts: 78
- Joined: October 12, 2020
[egotisi, Taylor] is where I'd like to go today. Getting slight cold feet about Noraa, I guess.
I like you too, Battle Mage.In post 1005, Battle Mage wrote:The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists
—Alice-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
In general, I feel like it would be nice to move away from the Plus vs Noraa choice.
I'm quite high on a Taylor-Infinity scumpair currently, although willing to be persuaded otherwise.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
I knew there was somebody who did...In post 1013, Exorcists wrote:[egotisi, Taylor] is where I'd like to go today. Getting slight cold feet about Noraa, I guess.
I like you too, Battle Mage.In post 1005, Battle Mage wrote:The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists
—Alice
let's do Taylor then. If she flips scum, look at Infinity next. I have a thought on another potential partner, which I shall keep to myself for now.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Noraa ze/zirfluffy tsunamize/zir
- fluffy tsunami
- fluffy tsunami
- Posts: 14576
- Joined: August 23, 2020
- Pronoun: ze/zir
- Location: the fridge where the ice cream be
I just got called nobodyIn post 1015, Battle Mage wrote:I knew there was somebody who did...Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 18337
- Joined: April 7, 2013
- Pronoun: they (pl.)
Sure. I can't find the second example of murder following up re: his case, if you could quote it that'd be helpful.In post 1010, Battle Mage wrote:
With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.In post 1006, Infinity 324 wrote:
I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.In post 997, Battle Mage wrote:
Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!In post 993, Infinity 324 wrote:
@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:In post 960, MURDERCAT wrote:@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.
which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.In post 858, MURDERCAT wrote:
Say more? Respond to what I posted?In post 857, Noraa wrote:BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.
And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagementwith the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum. not to be persuaded I am town.
I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.
To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.
I don't think murder was keen on just getting an elim. To me, it seemed like he was keen on finding agoodelim. That specifically is why it reads town to me. Scum with 3 days left may be able to get away with "let's just elim someone" and vote the biggest or second-biggest wagon. Murder didn't do that, and instead tried to engage with people to get a wagon he was more satisfied in. Sure, maybe he hoped people would just agree with him and the wagon on you would go through, however his posts read to me as if he was willing to be convinced otherwise (this is the part I seem to have difficulty explaining).
She hasn't responded to my initial point though? If we're going back and forth and we aren't getting anywhere, I might change my mind, but how I see it is that I made a request of noraa and she hasn't given me anything.In post 1011, Battle Mage wrote:
what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?In post 1009, Infinity 324 wrote:
The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?In post 1003, Noraa wrote:
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.In post 990, Infinity 324 wrote:based primarily on how people voted you-
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Noraa ze/zirfluffy tsunamize/zir
- fluffy tsunami
- fluffy tsunami
- Posts: 14576
- Joined: August 23, 2020
- Pronoun: ze/zir
- Location: the fridge where the ice cream be
I don't have a solid read on any of them. I will admit I have tunneled in since that seems to be what ur poking and prodding at with this series of questions but regardless, no one else has done anything deserving of my attention imo.In post 1009, Infinity 324 wrote:The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE-
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Battle Mage Jester
- Jester
- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
I feel slightly icky about anything where we're saying town should lie about their reads - it then becomes a crutch for scum to be inconsistent. I think Taylor plays the game on a different level to me perhaps.In post 171, Tayl0r Swift wrote:mhmm i think theres something to be said for hiding your townreads a little at the end of each day and maybe even throwing out some deceptive townreads. but generally, more info is good for town. the more we share reads the more info we have and the less scum can hide by saying "i have townreads but dont wanna talk about them"
This is odd - Taylor makes a point of challenging Murdercat when he jumps on the Infinity/RC wagon, which she is a leading proponent of. Never followed up on, so isn't something she cares passionately about, but surprising that she makes a point of calling someone out for voting with her.In post 187, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
mmmmm, the longer you wait the more impressive the reasoning will have to be.In post 178, MURDERCAT wrote:VOTE: RandomCanadian
I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]
undermining my case on her - not necessarily AI, but it's interesting that, although I've shared numerous games with Taylor, this is the first time she's actually called me out in this way. It kinda suggests she is worried about the attention. I do also feel that Taylor cares more about winning as scum than town, so that would add up.In post 236, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
battle mage literallyIn post 227, PlusJOYED wrote:why are you already tunneling battle mage? It's page 10
I think that looks like an excuse to tunnel a town
I'd probably vote battle mage if they got gladiated with tayloralways tunnels me. its not good play but strictly speaking its NAI.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Noraa ze/zirfluffy tsunamize/zir
- fluffy tsunami
- fluffy tsunami
- Posts: 14576
- Joined: August 23, 2020
- Pronoun: ze/zir
- Location: the fridge where the ice cream be
Can y'all not quote the entire post to just respond to two sentences of it cuz if u do that, I'm literally not reading any of it.Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Jester
- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
aww sorry noraa, join my wagon and we are coolio again!In post 1016, Noraa wrote:
I just got called nobodyIn post 1015, Battle Mage wrote:I knew there was somebody who did...Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Noraa ze/zirfluffy tsunamize/zir
- fluffy tsunami
- fluffy tsunami
- Posts: 14576
- Joined: August 23, 2020
- Pronoun: ze/zir
- Location: the fridge where the ice cream be
we aren't friends cuz I didn't join Taylor wagon?Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
Come play Guess that Scummer OR ELSE-
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MURDERCAT he/himSurvivorhe/him
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11708
- Joined: March 18, 2016
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Chicago
Infinity I'm playing with you in every game from now on-
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Battle Mage Jester
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- Posts: 22231
- Joined: January 10, 2007
I can buy the defence of "Murder didn't go with the existing wagons and went to the effort of starting something from scratch, which seems high effort for scum". I'm not sure how strong that is - seems perfectly possible Murder-scum could think he might be able to cruise on suspicion of me for a while, or just didn't want to be on a mis-elim, or was particularly keen to eliminate me while I wasn't able to defend myself. And yes I think we disagree on the fact of whether he appeared willing to be persuaded otherwise or not. In reality, we can see now he HAS been persuaded otherwise, although I think that's in some part due to me engaging with him constructively, which was something you and him both thought would be pointless.In post 1017, Infinity 324 wrote:
Sure. I can't find the second example of murder following up re: his case, if you could quote it that'd be helpful.In post 1010, Battle Mage wrote:
With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.In post 1006, Infinity 324 wrote:
I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.In post 997, Battle Mage wrote:
Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!In post 993, Infinity 324 wrote:
@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:In post 960, MURDERCAT wrote:@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.
which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.In post 858, MURDERCAT wrote:
Say more? Respond to what I posted?In post 857, Noraa wrote:BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.
And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagementwith the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum. not to be persuaded I am town.
I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.
To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.
I don't think murder was keen on just getting an elim. To me, it seemed like he was keen on finding agoodelim. That specifically is why it reads town to me. Scum with 3 days left may be able to get away with "let's just elim someone" and vote the biggest or second-biggest wagon. Murder didn't do that, and instead tried to engage with people to get a wagon he was more satisfied in. Sure, maybe he hoped people would just agree with him and the wagon on you would go through, however his posts read to me as if he was willing to be convinced otherwise (this is the part I seem to have difficulty explaining).
i'm making a point that your philosophy is that town shouldn't bother debating with people, and should only try and buddy up and work with people they believe they can trust, rather than scumhunting per se. So Noraa could have taken the approach you tried with me, which is saying "nah I don't wanna respond to you, I'd rather talk to people who might townread me/might be easily persuadable".In post 1017, Infinity 324 wrote:
She hasn't responded to my initial point though? If we're going back and forth and we aren't getting anywhere, I might change my mind, but how I see it is that I made a request of noraa and she hasn't given me anything.In post 1011, Battle Mage wrote:
what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?In post 1009, Infinity 324 wrote:
The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?In post 1003, Noraa wrote:
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.In post 990, Infinity 324 wrote:based primarily on how people voted youShow2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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