Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

But BM had multiple scumreads. He confirmed us as "lockscum" after Datisi posted. It's just a really weird push that you stopped after it gained no traction.

I mean you are basically accusing me of the same thing that I accused BM of. My point was that he had bunch of SRs and a lot of them were unusually strong. It felt weird that he seemed to have had a lock scum read on tayl0r and then he started pushing you despite things that, to me, showed the possbility of tayl0r being scum much more than the things he originally pointed out. It's fine to have more than one scum read, it was just weird to me that there seemed to be little follow up and he pushed elsewhere instead.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma can you elaborate your thoughts on nora a little more? You said you feel conflicted, what are the posts/things nora has done which are conflicting you?

[xofelf]

Catching up, I really like Infinity's entrance so far, very good contributions.

Murdercat asked me uh about BM I think it was? I have no issues with BMs posting. He feels internally consistent from my perspective.

Noraa is pinging me something terrible, like.. it might just be instinct on my part, but when somebody has a quadruple post where a lot of it is dripping in frustration and annoyance about anybody even considering looking at their slot as a viable target for anything, I get bad vibes. It doesn't feel purely defensive anymore. It just feels like noise. Like you have Murdercat who is posting a lot, but it genuinely feels like he's trying to get people to engage, while with Noraa it feels like she's trying to invoke a specific emotional response. Whether it's to get people to feel bad for considering her as a target, or what, I can't quite tell. But it feels like negative utility here and I don't like it.

I don't like it enough that,

Vote: Noraa

Maybe you aren't scum, but your approach feels like you're tossing enough noise into the game to inflate it where actually solving anything and tracking who has said or done what is harder and I'm not really here for that.

[Noraa]

Maybe you aren't scum

this is the sentence right after the vote. You've been so absent from the thread I don't have a read on you. The points against me aren't bad I will say since they don't sound 100% sheeped. I'm not liking the "maybe you aren't scum" sentence right after your vote but I do somewhat believe you are town rn.

[Infinity 324]

Nora stop sussing people because they vote you

[Noraa]

I literally said they were town.

[Noraa]

I pointed out something I didn't like. Is that a problem?

[Battle Mage]

i also totally missed bm saying they had an idea of what Noraa's role is, thanks for bringing that up @murder
I don't wanna go murder day 1 at least either cause they are high efforting probably the most and trying to drive the game forward, though some of the moves they've made feel very questionable

anyway, bm saying that confused me, because I thought I had a good idea of what bm's role was, but if I had to guess it'd seem like what he thinks Noraa's role is is what I think his role is, which would make me wrong. so I might need to revaluate bm.

But shit, this is all very sensitive stuff and I don't want to out a pr by mistake, so I don't wanna discuss it too much. just know i think i need to re evaluate bm.

this post would be an unnecessary embarrassing blunder as scum. leans town. also good reads i think. i may claim today anyway.

[Isis]

Infinity, why do you feel like MURDERCAT's "style" being close to yours proves a point that he's town? Like, usually when someone's playstyle is closer to mine, I have the opposite reaction, I get paranoid that I might townread them for something that's going to be part of how they play both alignments when they might really be scum. I spent a long time townreading scum in Nightless Vanilla because of this, also with a player I was meeting for the first time.

Have there been some aha moments that are really, really close to something you did as town once?
As Battle Mage has pointed out you probably didn't have a rolecard yet for most of this so it probably doesn't say much about your alignment but I think you should think about it. I think it's a better idea to fight excitement about people playing similar instead of leaning into it. For example: I think I play very different from Battle Mage in a lot of ways, so that makes me more willing sheep Alice on what to make of his shifts. (compared to, if my playstyle is similar to someone, and I

still

scumread something playstyle adjacent I'd be more likely to think I'm just right)


I feel better about Swift, I liked the "YAS LOOK AT ME" post, because I think she came up with it out of a genuine desire to see herself talked about which she liked in Menagerie and I think she didn't seem to like in Noir.

I'm going to switch to VOTE: egotisi, because I don't think either head has responded to me and that could very well be GeorgeBailey still horrified of my history catching him and consciously or subconsciously not wanting to keep me on the agenda.
If I had two votes I'd vote Noraa because her posting is making me nauseous again. Mis-stating whether her main points of interest started on her initiative or someone else's seems like the scum-indicative type of error (our earliest interactions in the game started with her saying she wanted to OMGUS me, so..).

Jewel Barons is continuing to be town with lots of his short posts giving me good pings. I say "his", Norwee seems to abandoned the game?

MURDERCAT does lots of stuff I like but isn't town, in a way, and the way Battle Mage approaches skepticism for the slot might be another part of me feeling better about BM. But I don't, like, scumread MURDERCAT (how do I teach my computer to capitalize it the way my phone does?)

I don't know anything else I need to talk about. I think I didn't actually say much about Infinity and that's because I don't know what I think about Infinity!

pedit: there's like 8 pedits and I'm not gonna read them.

[xofelf]

If I had two votes I'd vote Noraa because her posting is making me nauseous again. Mis-stating whether her main points of interest started on her initiative or someone else's seems like the scum-indicative type of error (our earliest interactions in the game started with her saying she wanted to OMGUS me, so..).

Please get out of my head. ._.

[Battle Mage]

I feel better about Swift, I liked the "YAS LOOK AT ME" post, because I think she came up with it out of a genuine desire to see herself talked about which she liked in Menagerie and I think she didn't seem to like in Noir.

i think that is a preposterous reason to decide Taylor is town.

[Battle Mage]

i believe egotisi is close to being flipped. i guess id better catch up

[Exorcists]

I’m honestly really happy with the direction we’re going in.

VOTE: egotisi

Lance told me yesterday his stance from where he left off was he was fine with Taylor, but would vastly prefer Noraa. I don’t think he’s looked into egotisi yet, but I’m pretty sure I can sway him. Not sure about Mayuri. I expect one/both will be around soon.

[egotisi, Noraa] is the way to go.

—Alice

[Exorcists]

My bad, I didn’t see the Isis vote. I’ll check how many votes that is.

—Alice

[Battle Mage]

i'm very disappointed we cant get this Taylor elim over the line. It tells me she MUST be scum, because otherwise scum would be backing a Taylor-mislim to then get an easy BM-mislim tomorrow. It's very unlikely scum wouldnt take that bait, unless Taylor was actually scum herself, and her buddies wanted to save her (which in a game with scum PRs is not surprising).

[Battle Mage]

that might even be a hammer...

if i die tonight, for the love of all that is holy, avenge me and elim Taylor tomorrow.

[Exorcists]

We were the 5th vote.

—Alice

[Battle Mage]

Do you think it's likely that Murdercat ISO'd me, and decided he'd quite like to have someone to target to look like he was scumhunting and just tried to construe everything I did as being scummy, when in fact it wasn't?

I think Murdercat is taking posts out of thread context. His answer to *liking* BMs post and then scumreading him is intriguing. Posts in ISO context read very different, and BM's progression on Taylor feels a lot more natural than he cased. I think his post came from a mindset of scumreading first, and then casing second.

VOTE: Murdercat

-ego

i think you're wrong here. i feel like murdercat was just misguided town.

[Battle Mage]

We were the 5th vote.

—Alice

i'm hurt that you abandoned me

[Battle Mage]

I think based on how quick this wagon emerged out of very little, I think egotisi is slightly more likely to be town. no intent from me, i would actually prefer a noraa elim over egotisi i think.

although clearly TAYLOR IS SCUM.

[Battle Mage]

also can i get a doc protect tonight please? thanks

[Exorcists]

We were the 5th vote.

—Alice

i'm hurt that you abandoned me

I’m sorry. I feel egotisi and on reflection, Noraa have much more chance of flipping scum than Taylor who is a bit null-scummy.

—Alice

[Battle Mage]

We were the 5th vote.

—Alice

i'm hurt that you abandoned me

I’m sorry. I feel egotisi and on reflection, Noraa have much more chance of flipping scum than Taylor who is a bit null-scummy.

—Alice

the partner equity between noraa and taylor is big. you should have stuck with me.

[Battle Mage]

i think even though egotisi has been scummy, the way his wagon built so quickly, and his random defence of me, both say town overall. Although i'll be eating my words shortly if i'm wrong.

[Noraa]

Spoiler:

Let me level with you mate...

Murdercat-town gains plenty from talking to me, is seeing what I say and how I engage, and being able to evaluate my reactions and potentially even re-evaluate his own case. You're right it would be unusual for me to say you have an amazing case on me (although I would, and indeed have, acknowledge points of merit). But I think you've slightly missed the point here - Murdercat-town should care more about getting a correct elim today, and be open to the possibility of being wrong. I'm certain that if you're town, you have reasonable doubt about my alignment. Instead, your description of your objective sounds a lot more like eliminating me at all costs. You say you care about my opinion on Taylor - do you have particular questions on it?

Speaking of going back and forth without it being useful...

I don't know what to say, I could give you multiple examples, but I think addressing a case point-by-point is mostly NAI no matter how you do it, and I would even go so far as to say continuing an engagement like that with a scumread is bad play as town.

Spoiler: good xofelf posts

Why are you so sure it won't?

just ignore her

Fair sentiment, may just. But I'm genuinely curious why she thinks that. The explanation you and Murdercat gave seemed solid enough to me as to why it was a bad idea.

Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.

What do you think about his opening post in 35?

Is that more calculated? That just seems a bit "hold up let me get an RVS in here real quick, and also some thoughts real hurried that aren't gonna mean much, but are definitely here." It does ping weird, but I didn't think anything of it cuz it could mean anything really.

Noraa, why do you think it's them?

I did notice as I was reading that you post an awful lot in a row, especially when you're particularly frustrated or annoyed. But I can't tell if this is just frustrated at not being listened to town, or caught scum. But would I be wrong in the assumption that you're a rather emotional player, in that your posts have a lot of that in them? not necessarily that you use them in your reasons.

Yeah I don't care about your meta, I wanna know what you're thinking and why for *this* game. Why is that your scumteam list? Do *you* have meta reasons for thinking its them? Do you have reasons from this game for that?

Either way, I get the sense that xofelf isn't very confident in this game, but these posts give me the sense that they're trying to do their best to contribute and find scum. Scum!xofelf could be faking these in order to coast and point to these as game-solving efforts, but I get the sense that un-confident scum wouldn't be able to fake these as convincingly. Lean town.

You don't think this discussion is helpful? I disagree. And there's lots to be learnt by how people address a case on them. It's forum mafia - what we say and how we say it is all important data right? I guess we disagree philosophically - I'd be interested to see how you form balanced and robust reads if you don't pay attention to people once you have scumread them.

Generally, I feel like players are easier to read when they are not responding to accusations, because then town can feel more free to scumhunt. Certainly depends on the player though. Normally, I try to ask other players, especially townreads, when I am not sure on a read, because getting a second opinion can help distinguish paranoia from useful skepticism. This is why I found it towny that murder asked Isis and noraa about his case on you, because it's probably what I would do in the same position.

@BM Here, murder is clearly asking for second opinions, or faking doing so. I don't see an attempt to push a narrative, I see an attempt to start a conversation.

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

Xof, what do you make of BM?

Is there anyone who is reading town on BM right now? If so, please explain

Noraa look at BM for me, what do you see?

but I want stuff that scum couldn't fake.

scum!me can fake anything imo :3
haven't gotten over my excitement phase after my first scum win a few days ago. It got an extension since I was really upset about my first two games onsite being two scum games of which I lost both.

A solid TR eh? I dont think I have any to be frank. I am not confident in any people being town rn and tho its worrisome, I'm not sure what to do about it so I'm leaving it like that for now.

Idk, your main two reads you've given this game are scumreads based primarily on how people voted you, and I haven't seen much attempt to sort other slots. Not that I couldn't see your play coming from town, but if you're town I think you're just too focused on the suspicion on you and would love to see thoughts directed elsewhere.

nah we're friends, but i still want you to vote with me. big trust, let's do it!

mmmm I dont wanna

oh go on, i'll let you pick the elim tomorrow!

This tone reads towny to me.

Infinity: im more interested now in your taylor read, given my theory you could be scum together.

although, on noraa, do you agree with my take that her initially refusing to jump to the taylor counterwagon is town-indicative as scum-noraa should have jumped at the chance to save herself?

Don't think taylor has done much AI this game, but I'll have to ISO her.

I agree that it's somewhat tone-indicative, though I'm wondering if she might be waiting to try to find a better reason/counterwagon she can justify more easily. I think she may be worried about being called out for sheeping.

I'm sorry if you're town nora and feel like I'm pushing on you unfairly, but I'm not really understanding what you're vote is doing atm.

Nora stop sussing people because they vote you

I think Infinity discredits peoples opinions a lot. Rereading the ISO, he mostly interacts with BM and I but constantly discredits us by saying things like "stop being OMGUSy" to me and "you are just going back and forth" to BM. These are things that BM and I do, yes. However having slightly emotionally driven reads =/= these reads are worthless. I think I see a lot of light fence sitting and another crucial thing I saw in Plus which was the basic refusal to solve my slot. Infinity just did it prettier than plus is all. Infinity really doesn't have a solid read on me and it's pretty shifty imo. He ask two other people to read me which is exactly what plus did as well that caught my attention really early on. Also that entrance ... definitely feels like buddying Murder. The thing is that its always easier to pocket people with similar play styles cuz they naturally relate to what you say due to their play style and the way other players approach players like them. I 100% agree that Infinity and Murder have similar play styles but that really just makes it easier to pocket. VOTE: Infinity

I recently went and meta dived Plus some more and I've decided that I want to drop the SR on him for a bit. The reason is simple. Im tunneling too much and thats hurting my reads. Also he kinda plays really damn scummy as town too. I didn't find anything identical to what he's doing this game but I mean people's play styles change. I think its still possible he is scum but I want to drop the read for now and scum hunt elsewhere. If I sincerely can't find scum elsewhere, by Poe he'll likely be one of the scums.

Isis everyone is calling town rn. I'm thinking about just sheeping that consensus read since most people have more experience playing with Isis anyways. My reads been a slight bit biased there but I'm going to just sheep consensus read until I have either a strong reason to not or I start TRing her myself cuz then it won't be sheeping.