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[tris]

VOTE: Alchemist21

[tris]

where is everyone!!

[tris]

clearly alchemist is a scared little mafia-man who knows i've caught him

[tris]

help. i don't know which 1v1 to pick a side on

[tris]

VOTE: sircakez ok, that's how it is then

[tris]

actually, good point VOTE: gamma emerald

[tris]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

[tris]

@tris sorry about the Flashwagon thing

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

huh?

[tris]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

[tris]

i think i remember a little. although, i think i'm remembering some of the details a little differently. i do remember relating to you in some ways. i'll go look the game up

[tris]

ok, i guess it was a flashwagon. the main thing i remembered from that was getting accidentally hammered. ha

[tris]

ok, i guess it was a flashwagon. the main thing i remembered from that was getting accidentally hammered. ha

fuck your gif picture that cat's toxic
VOTE: tris

rude, the cat is perfect

[tris]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

Elaborate.

gamma is no longer scummy. i'm canceling it.

[tris]

do you think it was a joke?

[tris]

what makes you think that it wasn't a joke?

[tris]

well, then it wasn't a joke.

[tris]

And now I remember where the scum read that became the flashwagon started...

Would like to hear the reason though, if it's a serious vote.

it was not a serious vote.

[tris]

mizzy can be my first townlean

tris can be my first lock town
VOTE: tris

do you mean lock scum? otherwise i'm confused

[tris]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

Elaborate.

gamma is no longer scummy. i'm canceling it.

My tris vote is now serious
These posts are terrible

no they aren't. why do you hate them?

[tris]

mizzy can be my first townlean

you don't think scum could be confused by that?

[tris]

yall are tryin too hard too early zzzzzzzzz

ok i get it now.

[tris]

wait, i thought i had moved my vote, but i hadn't. that's why i said i had canceled the gamma scumread. let me figure out what i was thinking

[tris]

huh, i have no idea.

[tris]

i'll vote in the morning ok? i don't know what to do right now

[tris]

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

Why though? I'm actually getting town feels from 89 .

Well I feel like 91 has the scum feels.

do you think 72 has the same scum feels or is it different somehow?

[tris]

at this point, they haven't placed a serious vote. the difference is, i vocalized the fact that i hadn't.

[tris]

mizzy can be my first townlean

you don't think scum could be confused by that?

sure can, that's not why i think they're >rand town

their posts so far give me a genuine vibe

i don't see it. VOTE: Datisi

maybe you're scum who already knows mizzy is town

[tris]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

Elaborate.

gamma is no longer scummy. i'm canceling it.

My tris vote is now serious
These posts are terrible

no they aren't. why do you hate them?

I don't believe you were joking at all. Doesn't make sense tonally.

i wasn't joking, but i wasn't serious.

[tris]

I am probably reaching here a lot, but I get very minimalistic townie vibes from Gamma for 80. As I was in the same game I had the same déjà vu and spent some thought about it if it was coincidence or could have meant anything and I feel you might be chew as townie more likely about it openly.

what you're saying at the end there is confusing. i don't understand the words.

but, responding beyond that: I don't see why mafia wouldn't also have the same deja vu.

[tris]

test might be town the way she talks about her alchemist read

[tris]

- my vote on tris wasn't serious at first and i am brushing off the whole joke/non-joke thing as weird NAI banter, but i actively dislike 99, the "oh you're scum and you know they're town" just feels like a very shady and frankly dumb argument

the first part of your sentence there is actually +town for me. I like how you decided to made a vote just to engage in the wagon. seems like a town thing to do.
the second part: what's so shady about that? it seemed like a stretch to me that mizzy's posts indicated town in any way. it made me think you might be biased by the fact that you already know they're town. you could even be scum fabricating a town read on a partner. either way, the bottom line is, the townread felt contrived.

[tris]

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who screw around and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

What does it mean to you that he is always voting tris again?

I think it’s his schtick.

do you have anything to say about any of the other voters then?

[tris]

unabombah, i want to hear more from you about your scumread of me, and get a response to 97+98. or just something other than whatever random things you're saying

[tris]

i'd like to hear more about that gamma scumread.

[tris]

it looks like echo did this in his last game as well

[tris]

right, this is a game that exists.

- my vote on tris wasn't serious at first and i am brushing off the whole joke/non-joke thing as weird NAI banter, but i actively dislike 99, the "oh you're scum and you know they're town" just feels like a very shady and frankly dumb argument

the first part of your sentence there is actually +town for me. I like how you decided to made a vote just to engage in the wagon. seems like a town thing to do.
the second part: what's so shady about that? it seemed like a stretch to me that mizzy's posts indicated town in any way. it made me think you might be biased by the fact that you already know they're town. you could even be scum fabricating a town read on a partner. either way, the bottom line is, the townread felt contrived.

i'm not sure what you mean by the first bit, what is supposed to be +town for you? the joke/non-joke thing? also, i kinda get the feeling that the "seems like a town thing to do" ws sarcastic, am i right?

oh sorry, i probably worded that confusingly. i was trying to say that the first part of that sentence was +town points towards you. when i said for me, i meant like from my perspective. and, no it was not sarcastic. it's 100% genuine. not that it cancels out my scum read. i'll just have to weigh these things.

iunno, it's just the "early reads seem tmi" is kinda like a pretty easy stance to take, especially since you didn't bother to ask me anything about it.

i just don't see how mizzy was being town. it all seemed pretty normal stuff.
i would think that criticizing it is an indirect way of asking about it. and i did ask a question before that. do you want to explain the read more?

if i told you that giving early reads is actually +town for me, does that change you opinion in any way?

not really, i'm not attacking you for having an early read.

[tris]

Ok the game I was thinking of they were Town. If there was another game I can’t remember which one. Their posts there average out to only 2 or 3 each rl day but they did post a lot at the start.

The game I’m referencing: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79422

Yeah I think this is a good first wagon.

VOTE: Iconeum

VOTE:

huh? so, you found a game where iconeum was inactive as town, and one where he was inactive as scum, and your conclusion is that he's scum for being inactive?

[tris]

oh ok i see

[tris]

Rather subjective, firstly I don't like half the wagon on her (mainly Una, who is my second scumlean).

I'm a scumlean for voting tris, or..?

I chose to not explain my vote in full just to see what people would make it out to be.
But I do believe my vote was well placed, and townies should be able to see my PoV.
Obviously it's still early in D1, but so far I feel like there has been no reason to move anywhere either.

why vote for me if you're just going to ignore me?

[tris]

why vote for me if you're just going to ignore me?

I'm not ignoring you?
At least I didn't intend to, sorry if it felt like that.

I just chose not to explain my vote on you in a very micro/macro level because I feel like it should've been clear what my reasoning was.

i was guessing at what your reasoning was at 97 98, but i was drawing a comparison to a similar post by mizzy to question you on what the difference is for you. i think it's probably about how i explicitly stated that i was going to vote in the morning because i didn't know what to do at the moment, but mizzy was basically doing the same thing, just not vocalizing the part about how they'll vote later. mizzy hadn't placed a serious vote, and was talking about how they need to go to bed. the same thing i was trying to communicate. is the fact that i explicitly stated that i was holding off my vote the problem?

[tris]

re tris 163:
maybe criticizing is an indirect way of asking about it, but the tone of "i don't see it, maybe you're scum tmi'ing" didn't sound interrogatory to me but maybe i'm projecting
though it's funny since i don't think i *can* explain it further than "37 and 53 are gut +town to me"

well, i guess i can't really get much more out of this line of discussion. i still have no idea what you're seeing, but i might unvote you and find somewhere else to go.

[tris]

i don't wann vote tris anymore and

this is where i'd jump on the alchemist train but that would put him on E-1 and that is Bad

Why is it bad?
You think it's likely for scum to lolhammer at this point of D1?
And even if they did, you think they'd get away with it?

the real danger is if town lolhammers.

This falls under a similar category with why I voted for tris earlier.
Over-explaining your reasonings and actions this early in the game pings me hard as scummy.

ok, this actually answers my question. i think i get it.

[tris]

I'm gonna hop in on this and say that lolhammers definitely happen early D1 and not even necessarily scum, it can be just town not paying attention or troll town like NM. I've played games where town lolhammers town D1 and then gets elimmed d2 and then town is basically screwed. So I actually like Datisi for his awareness of that.

i won a very easy scum-game due to this

[tris]

you were just... randomly calling people town?

also i feel obligated to point out that of you're town, the odds of a random other player also being town are 8/11, not 9/12

i don't think this is a legit scumslip but i could be persuaded otherwise

oh god, you're reminding me of a newbie game i read once. starting with this post and the discussion that followed.

[tris]

Am I really though?

Not really a fan of Gamma's language here

I think it’s

extremely unlikely

we have 4 scum

the above isn't exactly strong criticism of EV. Its not "extremely unlikely" its impossible. Me having a diffrent interpretation of what you said or meant to say isn't a misrep but nice use of buzzword placement.

but, it's not impossible

[tris]

i didn't say i agreed with it making him town, quite the opposite

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point.

?

I'm clearly scum that slipped. I coulda swore I saw something that said there were only 2 scum here but I can't find it. Maybe I'm just subconciously projecting 2 scum since its a 12 player instead of a 13 player and in a 13 players its gonna be 10/3 so I may have been thinking it would just be 10/2 but I guess it could just be a 9/3.

oh, i forgot this was a 12 player game. even though i've just been reading posts that said that.

[tris]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

so, how are you doing this right now? like there doesn't seem to be any reason to be voting for iconeum anymore

[tris]

this is the part where i promise to make a reads list.

[tris]

you but EV is apparently a 2016 join date too. Yeah you're both pretty scummy.

Or at least acting weird, yea.
But so far surface-level, kneejerk reaction, first impression gutreads seem to be the thing anyway, so..

this gives me town pings

[tris]

Yep, both the vote jumpy RVS and not being helpful when pressured for explanations. I think she said that game she always plays RVS like that but I'm too sleepy and phone posting to check right now. It's probably NAI, maybe slightly scum sided cos once i mentioned it she could play it up to look like that game.

You got any reads from her or the surrounding interactions? I'm getting a bit of a tonal town read from EchoVision, and I'm curious how Alch responds now there are votes there.

Ah, that's good. I skimmed the game you were linking a bit and thought her tone there is pretty similar to what she has displayed here so far, at least it just seems to be her nature. So I agree with it being nai. Why slightly scum? Do you think she changed her approach a bit after you mentioned it?

No, not really. If anything I think your interaction with tris looked natural, probably no svs at least. It's more an gut impression.

I'm around, quite tired, but should be able to read up at least

Slighly scum cos paranoia. I was thinking she could play it up to try and get me on side. Thinking about it more I'm not sure that makes sense. It basically involves tanking your cred in a way that even if it does get you town read (and she has past experience of that not being the case) doesn't mean town is gonna listen to you, and I'm not sure of the motivation for scum to do that so early into the game.

I do think it looks more extreme here, it's taking her longer to get around to making cases on other players - in that game she picked up pretty early after she got pressure on feeling that another player was getting off lighter than her for the same sort of behaviour.

but, i have been pushing some things.

[tris]

I like 79. Being aware of your biases in a way that makes you less likely to push someone seems town motivated.

OK tris, I promise to make a serious vote when I've caught up. I won't bring up previous games in future and just let you do stuff that people read as scummy without context.

what? i was never criticizing you, i was just making a comparison of how what i was being attacked for was similar to what you also did. I don't think it was scummy for you not to have made a serious vote at that point. you said you were tired, which is not the best time to try to make reads. it was the same for me. and, i also never said you shouldn't have tried to defend me. i feel like i'm missing something here

[tris]

First tris read and I like it.

oh, i guess you weren't all caught up in that earlier post

[tris]

i'm not liking this developing echo wagon

[tris]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

Ok but is there a reason you’re still choosing Ico at this point?

I don’t feel like my concerns have been fully addressed
Icon also started posting in Kids With Lungs in response to pressure D2, so I don’t think becoming more active in response to pressure here is particularly Town-indicative. I think you probably took your vote off too early.

But the weren't even in the game yet! It's not lurking if you forgot about the game entirely! this is stupid

[tris]

Egix, do you have anything to say about anyone other than echo and nero?

[tris]

i think echo is more likely town. just because you hate his playstyle, doesn't make him mafia. and he's stopped being like that, and is actually contributing now. and, i like what he has said in that time. it seems like townie thoughts.

[tris]

in some ways he reminds me of myself. maybe that's blinding me? but, i don't care right now.

[tris]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

Ok but is there a reason you’re still choosing Ico at this point?

I don’t feel like my concerns have been fully addressed

like what concerns? it looked like you were just voting there because it hadn't posted. what do you expect iconeum to address now?

[tris]

I do have one question, though
SirCakez, what do you make of how I’ve used my vote up to now?

Fine? It's sitting on ico which is whatever.

i'm confused by this answer. how has it been fine? i thought you liked nero's case.

[tris]

VOTE: gamma

[tris]

and even if he was telling the truth about forgetting about this game thats not exactly AI.

that's what i'm saying. it's not AI

[tris]

echovision why are you voting testa i wanna know

i do actually want to know this though

[tris]

i think echo is more likely town. just because you hate his playstyle, doesn't make him mafia. and he's stopped being like that, and is actually contributing now. and, i like what he has said in that time. it seems like townie thoughts.

actually, this answer doesn't talk about what i was thinking when i posted that. these thoughts came later as i read more.

at the time, i just felt like he wasn't being voted for being scummy, but for being annoying.

[tris]

I disagree that Echo has really gotten better; I think he's actually started playing because of pressure

but what about the fact that he's done this before.

[tris]

and actually, even without that knowledge, there are town people who do things like that. it's not scum-indicative.

[tris]

I disagree that Echo has really gotten better; I think he's actually started playing because of pressure

but what about the fact that he's done this before.

playing more/better because of pressure is NAI

what makes you think EV is a bad wagon, Tris? Honest question.

because it's for something that isn't actually scummy.

i think echo is more likely town. just because you hate his playstyle, doesn't make him mafia. and he's stopped being like that, and is actually contributing now. and, i like what he has said in that time. it seems like townie thoughts.

Is it really a matter of hatred though? I've touched on before how his play serves scum more than town.

assuming that's true, town can act in anti-town ways. this particular case is something i see from town all the time.

[tris]

oh, hello.

[tris]

if, gamma's not happening, what about VOTE: egix?

[tris]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

your vote makes less sense then

[tris]

actually, with that amount of time left that vote's not going to do what i would want. VOTE: gamma

[tris]

i don't want to get skitter. haven't had enough time to read her, and i was starting to townread mizzy.

[tris]

i am kinda baffled by the development of the gamma wagon:
- i feel like he's been fairly town
- nero has been trying to pick a fight with him all game, and gamma's responses have been kinda belligerantly townie
- i can't even tell why he's getting wagoned. the ev wagon i at least kinda get but this gamma one like randomly seems to be a Cool Thing To Do but i don't know why this is a thing that's happening. feels like something that scum's ok with and/or is pushing.

i'm wagoning him because of the iconeum vote. although, actually, i think his vote of you could be a town thing.

[tris]

then your options are gamma and echo.

well who am i voting?

[tris]

i've actually been a less impressed with echo though, so maybe i should switch there.

[tris]

i've actually been a less impressed with echo though, so maybe i should switch there.

actually nvm on this. i don't think he's playing like scum

[tris]

He's (Alch) also correct when he says that Ico can react to his wagon when he gets back.

i'm saying i disagree with this ^
a) wagoning someone who clearly isn't here so they can 'react to the wagon when they get back' is kinda a waste of time and wagoning because you can just ... wagon someone who actively is there, and then let the absent slot either get replaced, or if they return wagon them at that time. it's a silly waste imo because the person you're trying to get a reaction out of isn't even there to produce said reaction
b) i'm not sure ico (in particular) would even react super strongly upon returning to a wagon that formed on him while he was mia, because he was mia

what makes gamma different in this regard?

[tris]

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

while this is, like, wrong, it's also a bonkers vote for scum to be making in this gamestate

(namely: he's currently the leading wagon. and is following his cw onto a vanity wagon that is extremely unlikely to get traction in the next (i think) 17 hours or whatever it is. survivalistic scum don't really make this vote)

oof. i think you're right. i noticed it earlier, but i didn't want to give up on my scumread, but it's actually a strong piece of evidence UNVOTE:

[tris]

i've completely changed my mind here. VOTE: Echo

[tris]

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

while this is, like, wrong, it's also a bonkers vote for scum to be making in this gamestate

(namely: he's currently the leading wagon. and is following his cw onto a vanity wagon that is extremely unlikely to get traction in the next (i think) 17 hours or whatever it is. survivalistic scum don't really make this vote)

oof. i think you're right. i noticed it earlier, but i didn't want to give up on my scumread, but it's actually a strong piece of evidence UNVOTE:

i disagree with the assessment here, because survivalistic town would also not be making that vote. I'd argue that it's more scum!indicative then town, and that it gives + scum equity to the cw as scum are more likely to not be counter-voting on partners.

And yes, this happens. Trust me

ok sure, ev is scum in that world though

[tris]

alchemist is still being boring

[tris]

Anyway, if skitter is scum I think datisi might be sus

i think the opposite. if skitter is scum, datisi is town

[tris]

ok good

[tris]

ok let's see

[tris]

i'm going with gamma town still

[tris]

anyone want to name a player really quick?

[tris]

just any player

[tris]

other than me or gamma or daitisi i guess

[tris]

oops whatever, i'll pick one myself

[tris]

Nero Cain it is

[tris]

anyone want to name a player really quick?

Actually what about Egix? You were trying to start a wagon on him at the end of the day. I figure by 502 you were disliking his Echo vote, which was the last about that. How do you think now about him?

sorry i'm reading nero right now. maybe i'll look at egix next. should be quicker

[tris]

as i read nero's ISO, i realized that much of what i disliked about gamma is stuff that i "disliked" when he was town in my last game. so, my read there is strengthening.

[tris]

nero, why did not vote for gamma until 325? i don't think this is a scummy thing, just weird

[tris]

however, VOTE: nero

[tris]

first thing that popped out to me was how he did the exact same thing that he was criticizing gamma for in 134. over in 86. you gave no reason for your vote either. "gonna help gamma bus" doesn't count because it doesn't explain why echo is scum.

[tris]

i also really dislike 255. it's such a nit picky reason to suspect someone

[tris]

i also didn't like his thoughts on datisi at the end of the day

[tris]

in 662 he claims that he's not jumping to datisi and skitter being scum together, but

In hindsight Datsi worries me a little b/c he apparently always wants to vote Skitter except the time she was scum.

So maybe that could mean they are scum together.

[tris]

nero, why did not vote for gamma until 325? i don't think this is a scummy thing, just weird

317 is what I found him scummy for. I'm generally slow when I post (and I was writing another thing) and I'm not just always playing mafia when im on. His post and my vote is all within a >hour time frame and only cakes and gamma were posting. What is weird about it?

but, you were scumreading him a bunch before that as well.

in 662 he claims that he's not jumping to datisi and skitter being scum together, but

In hindsight Datsi worries me a little b/c he apparently always wants to vote Skitter except the time she was scum.

So maybe that could mean they are scum together.

I don't think this means would you think it means. I also used the term

could mean

as in thats what it could mean but doesn't necessarily have to.

but, it still is a speculation you're deriving from that evidence. it's not like it has to be 100% confident.

I'm chalking this up to an

OMGUS

.

well when i started to come to this conclusion, i had forgotten what your current read on me was, so it's not.

but if I was pushing a skitter/datisi team then why do I ever kill datisi?

it's not like you needed that angle. and don't think many others scumread datisi much. you still get to scumread skitter anyway.

you gave no reason for your vote either. "gonna help gamma bus" doesn't count because it doesn't explain why echo is scum.

It does explain it b/c I thought that it was somewhat likely that Gamma was bussing.

what made it a bus rather than a SvT. (we know it's not a bus now, but i mean at the time, why would you think that?)

[tris]

not an actual joke, but, not serious

hahahaha

[tris]

but, you were scumreading him a bunch before that as well.

but I was lightly scum reading a bunch of other people to and I didn't vote them either. 317 was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

ok

but, it still is a speculation you're deriving from that evidence. it's not like it has to be 100% confiden

Sure but why is it bad speculation? I mean Datisi was saying that he always scum read Skitter when he was town and he wasn't doing that. So yes I was worried about it. Why were you not?

i didn't say it was bad speculation, i was bothered by how you were claiming not to be saying that.

well when i started to come to this conclusion, i had forgotten what your current read on me was, so it's not.

uh huh.

just seems like a very big coincidence. I push you as a Gamma buddy and then you "randomly" happen to ISO me and then you just happen to scum read me and join to make me the biggest wagon.

i did ask for someone else to pick a name, but that wasn't working out, so i picked a random one.

what made it a bus rather than a SvT.

how could I possibly know if it was SvT?

you were claiming it was a bus. my question is why.

[tris]

first thing that popped out to me was how he did the exact same thing that he was criticizing gamma for in 134. over in 86. you gave no reason for your vote either. "gonna help gamma bus" doesn't count because it doesn't explain why echo is scum.

this also isn't true

yall are tryin too hard too early zzzzzzzzz

We can't all know the scum team like you

his 74 clearly pinged me.

in my eyes, you weren't really explaining anything there, but you were pointing to a post with indications of scumreading it. i think you barely did anything more than gamma did, but i see where you're coming from. i no longer scumread you. UNVOTE:

i still think that point on gamma is a wrong one though.

[tris]

Skitter30 has requested replacement.

oh. i was hoping to get a good read on her.

[tris]

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

huh

i don't think nero and myself are townreading each other that much

why are you?

For you it's mainly that I find this:

i agree with SiroftheCakez that EV has been more active in general because of pressure, but i kinda disagree that it didn't get better
actually was liking EV posts some more lately, but the general conclusions still seem off. Mostly about what I quoted wrt datisi.

... hard to see coming from scum given the context (you had been confbiasing strongly on Echo during your catchup that day).

for that? i don't see it. i townread iconeum for other reasons. namely, his interactions with una

[tris]

Not_Mafia is replacing Skitter30

uh oh.

[tris]

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

ooooh! but, is that true? there could be two scum in a neighborhood right?

[tris]

although, it could also be that he's saying that based on neighborhood interactions

[tris]

{Nero Cain, Gamma Emerald, Tesarossa, Iconeum} varying degrees of town, not ordered
{not_mafia} - skitter wasn't around long enough for me to get a read on her. but, the slot does get some residual towniness from mizzy. i'll have to go off of that for now, because not_mafia isn't easily readable
{SirCakez, Alchemist21, UnabombaH, Egix96} people i need to figure out. likely some scum in here. i'm not confident enough in my townreads to say they're all in here. i don't think sircakez and unabombah are SvS though.

[tris]

i'm going on a walk, talk more after that

[tris]

i've actually been a less impressed with echo though, so maybe i should switch there.

actually nvm on this. i don't think he's playing like scum

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

while this is, like, wrong, it's also a bonkers vote for scum to be making in this gamestate

(namely: he's currently the leading wagon. and is following his cw onto a vanity wagon that is extremely unlikely to get traction in the next (i think) 17 hours or whatever it is. survivalistic scum don't really make this vote)

oof. i think you're right. i noticed it earlier, but i didn't want to give up on my scumread, but it's actually a strong piece of evidence UNVOTE:

i've completely changed my mind here. VOTE: Echo

Was there actually anything to make you think that Echo was scum though? Your progression here seems kinda whack.

oh, i don't think i responded to this. i didn't really scumread echo, but my townread had waned, and i didn't want to do gamma.

[tris]

Your progression here seems kinda whack.

I mean, I get it if you were voting Echo purely to avert a Gamma yeet, but I'm just a bit surprised that skitt's post there was enough to make you flip your read on Gamma.

well as i said, i had noticed the same thing, and then skitter's post was enough to convince me.

[tris]

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

ooooh! but, is that true? there could be two scum in a neighborhood right?

Technically possible, but unlikely. Fwiw, when I was a neighbour in a normal game, the hood was 1S2T.

i just don't like making assumptions like that. there's no rule that says it can't be that way.

[tris]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

i think i pointed this out before. why would you wagon him this time if this was the case? And, still be voting for him

[tris]

eh, i don't really have any reason to scumread egix. but, he's not popping out as town either

[tris]

let's try this VOTE: alchemist

[tris]

Not usually as purposefully as that though, if you ask me.

Why do you think he acts like that as scum though, even doubling down on it when the wagon on him is already at E-2? I have seen Nero's take on it, but I find it hard to believe since he was already acting like that before Gamma got wagoned.

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

i think i pointed this out before. why would you wagon him this time if this was the case? And, still be voting for him

Because I deemed it to be NAI rather than a towntell. I haven't seen how scum!Echo plays in order to make a contrast there.

But, what's the point in wagoning him if he's not going to react well to it?

[tris]

why are people talking like there's some rule about the number of scum in a neighborhood ???????

[tris]

(assuming no setup BS with a 3P town hood)

explain to me, how that would be bs????

[tris]

no, it's not like i think it's likely. but, sircakez is even claiming that it can't be all town.

[tris]

i just don't want to rigidly assume things

[tris]

like i don't think there's two. i'm townreading two of them, and if my vote here is correct, there is exactly one, but i didn't conclude that from the fact that they're in a neighborhood.

[tris]

so, we've got a day left?

[tris]

i think it's
cakez - 3
alchemist - 3
not_mafia - 3
gamma - 1

[tris]

i can go with either of cakez or alchemist. don't want to do not_mafia

[tris]

we have 15 hours left, we need to come together somewhere

[tris]

VOTE: sircakez this is at 4 now.

[tris]

My only issue with Alch is that he's like barely doing anything and just kinda ignoring his wagon and things.

that's what bothers me about him. like he's just waiting things out.

[tris]

i haven't really looked closely at him, but i wasn't liking his interactions with una. it's mostly that i don't townread him and we need to get some lynch.

if you want to go to alchemist i can go back there

[tris]

i do not know what to make of that hammer. if it were anyone other than not_mafia i would be calling for their head without hesitation, but not_mafia does things like this. and i don't know how to read not_mafia. maybe he's not mafia if sircakez flips mafia. idk.

[tris]

that's true, it's just the way he did it without saying anything or giving people a chance to say things if they need to. but, that's just not_mafia's style. so, i'm thinking about this all wrong. forget i said anything.

[tris]

i want to go for egix or alch but I'm probably townreading a scum somewhere

[tris]

who's next to claim?

[tris]

i would like to see egix claim next

[tris]

i think i'm next.

i'm a (modified) commuter. should i claim the modifier? i'll at least say that i commuted last night.

[tris]

i can't do it all the time in some way

[tris]

the reason i wouldn't want to claim the modifier is to keep mafia guessing

[tris]

Testarossa is aligned with the town.

jealous

[tris]

well that's one townread i won't have to reevaluate

[tris]

After rereading everything that has been said for the past few days, I have an unshakeable feeling that something was close to happening earlier.
But I still want to make sure that we have the full massclaim down before I out it.

so, what's this about?

[tris]

there's me. although i townread ico anyway

[tris]

who else was scumreading testa? I know I had her as potential scum, did anyone else?
I'm curious to see what their new reads end up being

Me.

fascinating. do you have anything else to share?

[tris]

i wish i had a better understanding of game balance.

[tris]

Even assuming all the claims are Town, Town still felt underpowered until Testarossa IC’d.

Triss and Ico together has me raising an eyebrow because their roles do similar things in slightly different ways and idk why Town would have both.

i modded a pre-made normal game once that had three different protective roles

[tris]

the thing is, i still just see iconeum as town

[tris]

In that case though, all the personal watcher can do is see town PRs. That doesn’t seem like a good role.

i don't understand. are you saying there's no scum prs for some reason?

[tris]

but, what was meant by "in that case though"? it's not like iconeum being mafia makes the watcher more useful

[tris]

can we do alchemist?

[tris]

i think maybe both egix and alchemist are mafia

[tris]

their interactions and mentions of each other are pretty bleh

[tris]

mizzy was town is why

[tris]

i would like to vote for alch, but because this might be melo, i'll follow test's lead if she wants to do something else.

[tris]

VOTE: alchemist

[tris]

UNVOTE:

[tris]

VOTE: alchemist

[tris]

If this isn't game over, that vote/unvote by tris looks sus. as all hell...

why for?

[tris]

huh?

[tris]

well based on the logic people have thrown around, not mafia and unabombah must be town now. i don't think has to be, but if i did accept that, it would leave egix. and, i'd like to do that anyway.

edit: oh, ok.

[tris]

huh?

Looks like you thought your kill hadn't gone through for a moment there

VOTE: Tris

I was Occam's Razoring that whole wagon as being town once I saw the Alch flip, though ofc you had to take the safe kill while knowing that me knowing the team wouldn't matter.

no, i was just wondering why the thread was being unlocked without anything further said.

who's the team?

[tris]

i guess i should return the favor here

VOTE: egix

[tris]

I am moving today, but I will be available once that's done.

[tris]

oo i'm up late. i had something i needed to write after i was done moving.

[tris]

maybe i should case egix or whatver

[tris]

I think the vote should really be this or me at this point

would you really prefer yourself to be the vote over me?

[tris]

However I think tris can claim her modifier, after all there is zero chance she ends up as nk at this point of the game.

i was 1-shot as well

I also noticed that Egix never handed out any read on Alch while Alch also always remained indecisive there. Generally Alch/Egix interactions felt very trivial/artificial, that never really lead anywhere.

yeah, this was something i was noticing even yesterday

[tris]

5 - Some cute rvs-banter that's just for some easy distancing.

17, 18 (tris votes Gamma, Alch asks why) - Alch may have been genuinely curious to see one of his partners voting the other.

21 - Distancing gone wrong. The note I made on this post before in p#942 makes more sense now.

43 - Alch attempting to salvage the situation.

46 - I'm sure you get the idea. (In case you don't, and for the sake of completeness - aborting the Gamma push because she realised she'd caused an awkward situation.)

78 - Reluctance to bus.

89 - "wait, i thought i had moved my vote, but i hadn't." - I feel kinda dumb now for taking this at face value.

hahaha. scum always try to do this to me. taking my rvs stuff too seriously long after it's become clear that i wasn't being serious. i was INTENTIONALY being that way. it can't be distancing if it was never serious.

[tris]

i thought it might be a good idea to do it before we reach what could be melo, and a decent amount of people were townreading me, and i wanted to do it before we do a mass-claim

[tris]

@not_mafia but, isn't this town gamma?

[tris]

does anyone have any arguments for gamma-scum that don't rely on me-scum?

i'm just sticking with gamma as town. nothing has made me change that.

[tris]

It's Gamma and tris, wake me up when one of them reaches E-1

??

[tris]

not_mafia do you want to explain yourself at all? i know you don't usually do that, but it seems like you worked against voting out the me/gamma team that you were assuming.

[tris]

well in that case they would have faked the neighborhood

[tris]

Alch flipped scum neighbor

oh, right of course.

[tris]

ok, ok. i was just acting just in case there was something that could prevent the kill.

[tris]

yay!

[tris]

we were on every elim in fact

[tris]

Sorry about replacing out, I have a notes thread that explains it better - short version my difficulty playing was very real, maybe there was some scum cognitive load stuff but I've had it happen as town too.

Well done team!


I have some thoughts about setup but I'll do that from not my phone

i thought it was funny how you said you had been looking forward to play with skitter, and then she was your replacement.

[tris]

oof. This was a team combination I didn't really saw coming, but this explains the weird stalemate on D2 a lot.

gg scum

i played a bit risky there with the intention of moving onto sircakez. i was counting on alchemist not catching on too much, so that i could do that.

[tris]

finally a scum game that i feel good about

[tris]

lol. i was so much not in my towngame later on. i'm glad no one could tell.

pedit: yeah, i'm fine with pt releasing

[tris]

well not no one

[tris]

well not no one

most importantly not test <3

[tris]

np. last time we were mafia together, i replaced out, and you went on to win, so this time it was your turn

[tris]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk