Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

ego

[Gamma Emerald]

Welp.
Me and my hydra partner had a bit of a falling-out so I will be playing from this account from now on.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma can you elaborate your thoughts on nora a little more? You said you feel conflicted, what are the posts/things nora has done which are conflicting you?

I’ll probably work on this tomorrow, remind me in like 18 hours if I haven’t by then.

[Gamma Emerald]

I literally said they were town.

I pointed out something I didn't like. Is that a problem?

Hrrrm I think this posting make Noraa town but I’m also concerned for her an a level that has no impact on my read on her.

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity, why do you feel like MURDERCAT's "style" being close to yours proves a point that he's town? Like, usually when someone's playstyle is closer to mine, I have the opposite reaction, I get paranoid that I might townread them for something that's going to be part of how they play both alignments when they might really be scum. I spent a long time townreading scum in Nightless Vanilla because of this, also with a player I was meeting for the first time.

Honestly if you’re townreading someone for something you have seen in yourself that you think comes from both alignments, that says 1 of 2 things. Either the similarities you saw were an illusion, or you lack a measure of self-awareness regarding your own towniness or scumminess.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think based on how quick this wagon emerged out of very little, I think egotisi is slightly more likely to be town. no intent from me, i would actually prefer a noraa elim over egotisi i think.

although clearly TAYLOR IS SCUM.

Do you not understand compromise? I don’t remember who mentioned this before, but whoever said you being for a Noraa elim while not really making strides to work with those also favoring it in favor of blindly shouting that Taylor is scum constantly has a point. And if Noraa flips scum I think you have significant partner equity with her at this point for this streak of behavior.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: noraa

it seems like a choice between noraa and egotisi now, given time. I'm settling with Noraa because she was adamant about not voting Taylor, and she also revealed a no-bussing mentality. If Noraa was town, she should have ultimately voted Taylor here I think.

Okay this at least is a better look as you did this before anyone called you out expressly for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Give me a chance to get there mate. You ever played with mastina?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then you’ve played with someone who has a similar style of catchup to what I do.

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I don’t think you’re giving her a fair shake
Honestly I feel like your normally-critical mind has been a bit dull so far this game. It’s not a point against you rn as there’s a couple non-alignment based reasons I can see for it. I’m just a little wary of you.

[Gamma Emerald]

damnit...shouldve consulted the wiki first!

Honestly the fact there isn’t any setup info in the opening posts is a shortcoming by the mod imo

[Gamma Emerald]

my balls to the wall solve is....

Taylor-Noraa-Xofelf

Pretty sure you’ve been saying that one for a while, why’d you present it like it was a fresh thought?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: egoposts

i think we've already learnt quite a lot. an unusually high number of people defending taylor without grounds.

who is actually defending taylor here? like is "not instavoting taylor the second BM asks for it" = "defending taylor"?

murdercat climbing up my reads with 268/269

hmm
isis, why are 279/280 towny to you? like they read like null-to-maaaaybe-nullscum posts to me

i found this a bit surprising, at this point i was feeling like i had like one and a half weak townread (exorcists and maaaybe murdercat) with a whole buncha people either being null or south of null (RanCan for stuff, BM with the questionable push, and xof/norwee feeling active-lurky)

Can you explain what you mean by active-lurky?

active lurking is like, posting meaningless post to appear to be contributing
both your and xof's posts neatly fit into that
like up to that point you were what, making an excuse why you won't post much because logging in is difficult, voting the mod, and joking about clint eastwood

is that all you wanna say after 7 pages? do you have any reads?

-tisi

VOTE: xofelf

The fact that so many people are throwing shade here when I am totally null on them makes me suspicious. Sorry tayl0r, come vote here now let's see what happens.

This is feels like a non-reason(?) for a vote. You find them suspicious because other people find them suspicious? Do you have any other reasons for finding them scummy?

Also:

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

UNVOTE: by the way, served it's purpose

The idea was that there is likely scum on the wagon, just because it's easier to get 5 votes from 13 players than 10. If you remember from Noir, you had an early wagon on you that involved a vote from PP. I think that scum often takes the opportunity to distance with an early wagon, so I had a theory that Random Canadian might be scum getting hit by that distance vote (also I saw that Random Canadian had logged on but not posted in this thread, which seemed a little off to me considering how early into the game we were). Either way I was curious how votes would react as the wagon accelerated. It's probably not super useful right now but I think it will be nice to look back on after we get some flips. I did hate Isis's vote to leave the wagon but she did the exact same thing in Noir (and I hated it there too ). I'm not sure what to make of your unvote and revote.

Murdercat's progression on this feels off. You give no explanation for it, the wagon deflates after you voted, then you unvote and say it's for a test and it valuable after flips.

Why did you unvote rather than change to a different wagon? I know this may sound menial, but usually unvoting is a reaction to a post or something someone said.

-ego

Just gunna point some stuff out as I see it. These posts directly contradict, but are from different heads. I'm not really sure what to make of that, is that just something that happens? Makes me feel like they were not discussing in PT, but I'm not sure why scum wouldn't be aligned in who they are pushing? But maybe it's not that important for scum to be aligned with a push early? I don't have a strong AI read on this but I am curious if anyone makes anything from it.

I’ll have to take a good look at those myself because I have my own thoughts about what hydra heads contradicting each other should mean for alignment.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not a fan of how MCat approached the egotisi wagon
@BM I’m just concerned that your tone doesn’t match the sort of opinion you expressed there

[Gamma Emerald]

And you’ve clearly been SRing xofelf from very early on, BM
You’ve only really pushed the same 3 people as scum all game. That feels more like a narrative than an attempt at sorting. Who’s your next set of people you’re considering for scum if one of your reads is wrong?

[Gamma Emerald]

Setup

@Gamma and anyone else who may have missed it

I don’t like having to go to the wiki when most Open forum games have the setup in the opening posts

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not a fan of how MCat approached the egotisi wagon

In what way?

You seemed very dismissive of it, it was a budding wagon on an uncommonly SRed slot and you seemed to be trying to say it shouldn’t exist. If our current limpool doesn’t bear much scum this is gonna look mighty shady down the line, because it seems you’re attempting to get people to stick to that limpool.

[Gamma Emerald]

untunneling is generally town indicative.

What is your basis for saying this? I think it’s important to think about timing.

[Gamma Emerald]

I never ever die day 1 as scum bc I'm always highly townread in my scum games.... In all my finished, I died day 3 or didn't die at all.
Honestly speaking, if I'm highly SRed day 1, I'm definitely town. If I'm not, it depends.
Since y'all r taking so much meta stuff into account, I figured this was necessary

You were pretty highly SRed when you first started playing from replacing in MafiaSunny. This tell is voided.

[Gamma Emerald]

I only have two leans rn and they are weak asf

Might be conf biased, but this sort of fence sitting seems AI for scum Noraa

Tbf I think she had trouble finding reads in another town game (arthropods?)

now flipping around and saying this. Infinity is someone I request town look into tomorrow.

That’s actually a hood sign for Infinity, though I actually don’t know his scumgame, curiously enough

[Gamma Emerald]

also another thing i think pointing to town!noraa is that there's like... scummy slots that seem to not really care which one goes through

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

this weak asf vote BeCaUsE WaGoN even tho he's kinda skeptical of our main pusher?

I will say it's a bit funky Noraa was looking for a compromise that early, but wagons are wagons, I had a 5 vote wagon form on me on the first couple pages of a 13p mini normal once, and iirc it generated some interesting data, though probably not accurately interpreted data.

-GAMMA

and in his next post, literally 2 whole minutes later, he's throwing shade at noraa

@inifinity, i think i saw you say that your preferred votes are us and noraa, right? can you tldr me why you suspect noraa or link it or something?

-tisi

Bruh your SR on me is honestly terrible, it started for weak reasons on Nor that iirc amounted to being for non-alignment reasons, and your read on me has essentially been “nothing has been town so he’s scum”, when base odds would make me more likely to be town?
And to address the actual point here, just because I’m skeptical of someone doesn’t mean I actually SR them, I’m just watching my back. As for me “shading” Noraa while voting you, that is the weakest excuse for shade I’ve even seen. While it was a strange thing to do it’s not like I tried to say “it’s strange and that’s bad”. I just think she was playing a little differently than most players would in the gamestate at hand.

I also want to point out that ego essentially is using the same tone of “this vote is weak so the wagon is bad” that MCat used, so if Noraa gets yeeted today and flips town these two need to be critically examined.

[Gamma Emerald]

(idk the point of replying to this but)
my idea is that town doesn't have to force themselves to have reads because it comes to them naturally
and i know scum!norwee does *not* get reads naturally
so the "hihi i was just gonna derp around" feels like a scum excuse more than anything

Well while we were in the hydra he’d told me he wasn’t really paying attention to the game due to not wanting to post on the wrong account, which is a fair sentiment as I myself have hydra-slipped before because I got excited to post something, and I also tend to lose interest in games where I can’t really post like I’d prefer to. The plan eventually became that I would solve and he would just be my sanity check to make sure I wasn’t tunneling on anything too hard. However there was an issue with something I’d rather not discuss publicly at this point, and that made us not feel like hydraing anymore, and since I was more invested in the game at that point I took over the slot.

[Gamma Emerald]

hmm we are in a very unusual position here: i actually like both of the main wagons, and could easily see noraa or xof flipping scum here. the problem is, what are the odds that both the leading day 1 wagon and the counterwagon are on scum? almost 0. i think this suggests that noraa is scum with egotisi, but fuck me if im seriously trying to do VCA

I feel like both the Noraa wagon and the xof wagon got a second wind in response to the egotisi wagon
Make of that what you will.

[Gamma Emerald]

1389 logic is actually why you should think taylor is scum

the wagon on me isnt taking off because youre the only one who scumreads me and your case is "but shes scum tho"

i must be the best scumhunter here then, if im the only one! My case on you is pretty damning, to the point there's no way scum don't take you as an easy mislim here if you're town.

Mate, having good reads don’t mean shit if you can’t convince anyone, and your Taylor read is awful. You pretty much rehash the same shit. It seems more like you’re afraid to lose to scum!Taylor than you legitimately think she’s scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

bm im curious of what noraa is too but like you haven't helped town at all this game
peddit What the fuck bm are you fucking with me right now
I'm doing the opposite. Your rolefishing

Yah this

[Gamma Emerald]

Noraa is already hinting at PR it's too late for that

What did you make of Noraa’s PR hinting in the moment, and what do you make if it now that she’s claimed vanilla?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've elected to ignore everything BM says from here on out as he's claimed the VI slot. Hopefully scum kills them

Taylor has gone up in my townreads too.

This feels squicky
Plus, Murder, ego team?

[Gamma Emerald]

Murder was in that set of weak scumreads I’d put out earlier, and I at least feel like BM has acted towny since then, and I kinda wanna TR the way Noraa talked about considering claiming a random PR. Doesn’t seem like a scum mindset for fakeclaiming.

[Gamma Emerald]

Look, if yeeting me gives you more information on solving all these other pushes on me and through out, by all means go for it. We won't be losing anything important in the process. I'm not a PR, nor am I scum, so if that makes it easier to actually vote out the people who ARE, go for it. I'm gonna flip green, but not a green that it's gamelosing when I do.

I don't really like how little Isis is contributing here. I know she's incredibly precise in all that she says ever, but I feel like she normally says more.

Yeah I ain’t seen Isis in a bit neither, but I don’t know why she’d be lurking as scum rn so I don’t have a read on that situation. I feel like her posting while she was here was at least decent, though.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe xof vt claim more than Noraa soft

Interesting. Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there even a town role that has MD powers in this setup? How do you know that scum know the powers but not what powers can exist in the setup Noraa?
I think that might be a scumslip?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Noraa
There are no town MD roles in the setup. The fact Noraa thought there might be one despite having some breadth of setup knowledge makes me think she is scum who only knew the things she knew because it was disclosed to her as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma talk me through why datisi hydra is scum

Pedit
Nora is a way better elim

I feel like their reads aren’t exactly honest. I feel like they are taking valid points and putting them together to make a completely different picture to what they should be. I also thought gamestate made them probable scum but Noraa being scum shakes that feeling.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't know if there is but I just thought of Mafiasunny where MD was the crucial role in the end.

The fact that Noraa addresses this is a point in her favor I feel. I had the thought that it might be affecting her, but didn’t want to speak on it until I got a better sense of whether that idea was valid or not. I still think Noraa’s a good flip at this point, but there’s no smoking gun now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well it looks like my words on the subject didn’t amount to much. I think Noraa has a legitimate cause to point the finger at Infinity there if she’s town, that hammer came before I could come back and address how her acknowledgement of that other game affected my feelings on her. If she expected me to change course after seeing that, she’d definitely find the person who locked in the flip as scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I thought that was hammer, scratch my last post then.

[Gamma Emerald]

if y'all just mis-elimmed noraa, take a long hard look at yourselves during the night-phase, and flip taylor tomorrow like i've been saying all game.

and alternatively, if you're scum noraa....haha I knew it! I had you all along....

I don’t like this positioning

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral?

Lol I actually forgot about Dunn. There is a part of me that thinks that scum is letting town flail, that's why I've been nervous about Isis/Dunn/xof/Cobra

Why is egotisi not in that pool?

[Gamma Emerald]

if y'all just mis-elimmed noraa, take a long hard look at yourselves during the night-phase, and flip taylor tomorrow like i've been saying all game.

and alternatively, if you're scum noraa....haha I knew it! I had you all along....

I don’t like this positioning

I read that as a joke

Humor exists to make light of the darker parts of the world.

Why is egotisi not in that pool?

There was a major wagon there

Well I at least voted there

because

they had been out of focus. Can’t speak for everyone else on the wagon but egotisi has been quite scarce in this thread and I don’t feel like people have talked about them much. A wagon doesn’t change those things, regardless of whether the wagonee starts doing more following it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I will re-iterate for Exorcists that I think the Noraa and xofelf wagons got an extra push as a response to the egotisi wagon, so while I think Noraa and egotisi are both scummy I think it’s a bit questionable to think they’re partners unless egotisi has some mechanical or read-relates reason to be saved over Noraa.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like a lot of the things I found gut-scummy from BM make more sense as town. I don’t really have the entirety of this mapped out but it’s definitely the case for the Taylor push.

[Gamma Emerald]

What? Is that @ me?

[Gamma Emerald]

alice is catching me up right now, i missed a lot

also we're debating on if lunch is a good word for execution, i don't like it but alice does

help

-mayuri

im a big fan of lunching people. it looks and sounds like the bad L word, so you automatically think of it and understand. and you can still use things like L-1 and lylo. and you can talk about having someone for lunch today, and then someone else for lunch tomorrow, since lunch is eaten during the day. only scum get dinner.

Would a dayvig be breakfast, then?

[Gamma Emerald]

I just want Tay to respond to 1678

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

yes i have made a slight miscalculation wrt the queue. im currently alive in 11 games. i might be a little disengaged from all of them until i start to die or they start to end. apologies. im gonna do my best to keep up and stay engaged though. but 11 games is... kinda a lot.

Once

a certain game

got cut out of the ones I had to actively follow I feel like my level of engagement in the others has improved immensely
I’ll take that as proof that if I am in a game and not digging it and there’s no good way to resolve it within the gameplay, I need to replace out. Because my last siteflake essentially happened because one game made me not want to come on the site at all.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: egotisi
This works.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol @ the wholesale c/p VC creating unneeded reposting of setup stuff

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm busy but should be able to respond semi-promptly if called on

[Gamma Emerald]

or i guess 2 commuters. but seems unlikely

why commuters?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm feeling less good about Isis than I was before. Are we sure Exorcists were clearing Dunn? But of the rest, Gamma feels null which might just be an indication that he's problematic. I think it's just the way you play that makes me feel all sus Cat, but I don't think you're actually bad at all, you just ruffle my feathers something fierce.

I recall you TRing me D1, what changed?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's infinity and xofelf, but I don't like the way

MURDERCAT

is playing either

oof

[Gamma Emerald]

I think with the fact Isis is claiming healer I don't want to go there
iirc healer is a 3 point role btw, so scum must have picked roles less than what they were allowed? Is that possibler?

[Gamma Emerald]

wait no, how did I mess that up?

[Gamma Emerald]

If we lim Isis and she flips healer scum get to kill PJ for free tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

oh tru
could have been off-cycle

[Gamma Emerald]

Faking medscan with animations on is equivalent to a cop guilty so uhhh

[Gamma Emerald]

Xofelf claimed D1

[Gamma Emerald]

I honestly just don’t trust MCat as far as I can throw him rn

[Gamma Emerald]

What?? Oh Gamma you're hurting me

I felt like you were sus from like, early D1. Your egotisi wagon treatment didn’t help that

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean we could also just yeet xofelf? I feel better towards gamma than xof and we are in the same position tomorrow if we miss right?

I might be amenable to that
tbh I haven’t recalibrated since D2 because while I was proven right on ego I was also proven wrong on Plus

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean we could also just yeet xofelf? I feel better towards gamma than xof and we are in the same position tomorrow if we miss right?

There's 2 PRs left among scum, I don't particularly want to wait

I’m curious how you intend for that math to work when we have 2 scum alive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Are we sure Exorcists were clearing Dunn?

Doesn't matter because I wouldn't have let this weird supposed amalgamation of the scum roles make it past pre-game if I were on the scum team, since that's not how setups work

Strongman + Rolecop + RB is a “weird supposed amalgamation” why? Or are you talking about the fact scum combined roles in some manner?
I was expecting you were playing to your PR meta early, now I’m concerned about you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Isis

[Gamma Emerald]

Ummm what
You think Plus is lying?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m freaked out rn because I really don’t feel like I understand jack about shit

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel you on that. Sometimes I just need things explained to me like I'm five, I'm sorry. Also, what benefit is there even in having a fast day? Can we like... slow our roll a little here?

Yeah, it seemed like everyone was okay with D2 ending when it did but I don’t want two quick days in a row

[Gamma Emerald]

Well we have a counter claim between Isis and Dunn and one has an independent guilty on them and the other has an independent inno on them.

Both of which are assumed. And Dunn

also

has a point in it not making sense that scum would pick banshee with just one protective in the game (a healer or some amount of commuters) . Like, my entire body is wanting me to go in so many directions rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well the thing is I’m doubtful this is going to be a town win. Especially with you trusting MCat for ??? reasons, when I find MCat rather suspect

[Gamma Emerald]

@MOD can scum pick roles freely within their power limit or do they have to pick their limit’s worth?

I did mix up the setup but maybe I mixed it up in a way that was accidentally correct?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well the thing is I’m doubtful this is going to be a town win. Especially with you trusting MCat for ??? reasons, when I find MCat rather suspect

Gamma if I'm town murder is town. Promise.

I don’t trust this AT ALL.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you’re scum versus wrong, because if it’s a scenario where your wrong I don’t understand why MCat is the person you’re being wrong about. You behaved in a very specific way to me early that you don’t seem to have followed through on.

[Gamma Emerald]

I probably would have gone with avenger instead of strongman and tried to blast some WHs

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi everyone! I've been following this game and all I know is that murdercat is town.

Going to reread a bit and give my reads soon, since I might have a lot of null reads I'll give possible town and scum narratives for those players so people can tell where my head is at, at least.

How confident was this at the time? What were you seeing from MCat?

[Gamma Emerald]

The problem I see with Plus!scum is the fact he has a a clear train of thought and hasn’t been CCed for the Taylor vig I think. Only reason I can see for making that move would be if scum had Rolecopped Exorcists N1 and killed them and got lucky.

[Gamma Emerald]

But then who killed Cobra? Like if there's 2 WH, scum kills exorcists who kills Taylor. There's no way for it to work given the flips right?

I guess Scum > Exorcists > Cobra > Taylor?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi everyone! I've been following this game and all I know is that murdercat is town.

Going to reread a bit and give my reads soon, since I might have a lot of null reads I'll give possible town and scum narratives for those players so people can tell where my head is at, at least.

How confident was this at the time? What were you seeing from MCat?

I was very confident. 1177 is the best way I could describe it, he's constantly thinking along the same lines as I am, and there's a natural-ness to how he plays that I can't describe but matches up with how I play as town.

Why don’t you know I’m Town rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma I was following 2171 for a while and thought you were scum there for similar reasons, which is what's giving me pause here.

And that was?
I’m extremely skeptical of you saying my playstyle has changed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Were I scum I’d probably be hiding under a damn rock but I’m still trying to make a difference

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve improved as scum but not to the point where you’d never catch me the same way you used to.

[Gamma Emerald]

I should be able to do that in a couple days, I have things I’m trying to do with my full effort powers in other games rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you want time to do that or do you want to flip Isis?

I’d rather have time to do that than flip Isis now

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
For safety. I felt and still do feel like an Isis lim is kinda inevitable tho

[Gamma Emerald]

1 try because of the misvigs

[Gamma Emerald]

Flip isis, protective on me if there is one, I'll track X since that's the poe target.

are we ready to end the day? I've said all I think I need to say and I have a strong chance of dying

[Gamma Emerald]

rolestopper does stop kills but strongman can't bypass rolestopper

[Gamma Emerald]

what

[Gamma Emerald]

god this game is such a damn headache

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are people just clumping me with xof tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I’ve managed to fast-track a good amount of the hard work I was expecting to have to do in some other games so I should be able to do my effort in this game a day before I initially felt like I was going to be able to

[Gamma Emerald]

But I don’t think I’ve ever really indicated being in a similar bracket to xof in any real sense myself

[Gamma Emerald]

In addition I feel like the earlier point about guilting egotisi doesn’t really hold water, plus could have decided to fire off a fake guilty on a less active but also less suspected partner to turn himself into a deepwolf option
It consolidates the towniness onto a slot that can from that point on operate with freedom because misplays can be swept away with an argument of “well I’m conftown so trust me”
it also kills the wagon analysis prospects on egotisi since the D2 wagon there was solely because of the guilty, so you can’t derive any real data from it

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don’t like how Plus has been reading both egotisi (Town for “the same reason as exorcists” despite not feeling similar at all to me at that time, then pivoting late into D1 into an ego scumread that is based on Noras flipping red still), and I also don’t like how he says Noraa red flip implicates ego and then voted xofelf. Mechanically PlusJOYED’s play is whatever, but his day play does not feel genuinely town to me at all
Honestly I don’t even think Isis flipping scum will 100% convince me of him being town. There’s still one thing playing on my mind that bothers me about what’s going on here.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Infinity 324
I reviewed his ISO and his progression on ego led him to think ego was Town D2 pre-guilty HOW? In addition I am suuuuuper bothered by how confident his MCat read developed
Like, I think he has been softing cop/WH since the start of the game, but he seems to have checked MCat over me? Despite having posting D1 that looks way more like crumbing a check on me vs. MCat? He also didn’t speak on MCat at all D2, so unless he did that N2, which still doesn’t check out with how he’s interacted with me, then I really think his play hasn’t lined up with what he’s softing at all.
And I’m a commuter myself so like, 2 of the claimed PRs have to be scum ime, and I feel like Plus and Infinity have both acted scummy by day, and Infinity’s supposed night play fails to match up with my expectations of him. Isis may be “guiltied” but it could have just been a tracker result, Infinity meanwhile is softing a cop shot on a target I think he never checks as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

2 of claimed are not scum holy shit dude. Maaaaaaath
We have 8 points
2 dead WH's = 4 points
dunn commuter = 1 point
gamma commuter = 1 point
isis healer = 2 point
me WH = 2 point
So most likely 1 of those claims is fake, not 2

I have also been reading crumbs from Infinity since the very beginning. That’s where the other faker comes in.

[Gamma Emerald]

???????
Why’d you state you wouldn’t meta me earlier @Infin? I know you kinda spoke on that already but it wasn’t a full enough explanation of what you were thinking
VOTE: Isis
I’m just about ready for the day to be over. I need to think hard about this game tonight.

[Gamma Emerald]

What is my “town meta” to you? I know I have a consistent scum pattern I’ve shown in games with you, I haven’t detected any sort of trend in my town games with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Back then I had tons of time to devote to mafia. Now I have IRL obligations and also am trying to balance my sources of free time entertainment

[Gamma Emerald]

I think scum big brained themselves

I think scum big brained themselves

I think town is big braining itself actually

Wdym by big braining :thonk:

[Gamma Emerald]

this feels like gamma's scum meta from my limited intell

How
I know for a FACT our only direct meta is ongoing so I’m not going to really bother entertaining this if that’s it

[Gamma Emerald]

We need to decide between xof and gamma today then and I track the one we think is scum

Why are we still on “xof or gamma”? We have 2 scum alive and 2 claims that have to be fake right? That actually clears xof and infinity unless I’m still smoothbraining

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would he fakeclaim as town though?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it’s probably 2 of {plus, MCat, Isis}
It could be Dunn but I don’t think it’s him by play

Honestly it feels like Plus is slipping scum perspective a little here

[Gamma Emerald]

If it’s Plus and MCat this game is like the most fucked up sequence of events I’ve ever seen

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s the thing bothers me the most about your play today MCat
You seems 100% sure about the guilty, but imo there’s still room for doubt? I’m trying to be scholarly about how I approach things (despite clearly not having the brainspan to really do much good with it)

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there a reason it can’t be Isis and Plus?
I’m not saying the post isn’t a guilty, I’m saying it’s not damning, since we don’t know what Cobra specifically did.

[Gamma Emerald]

The way the game has shaped up it appears 2-3 of my D1 teamguess was right
And the loosest of that was MCat because of being part of a set of 3 slots I had the same level of suspicion on, so rn I think the reality of things is that it’s Plus/Isis/ego

[Gamma Emerald]

I think this pretty well encapsulates the thought process I’ve had this game

Honestly I feel like my validity for Paragon this year probably hinges on this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Coming back to this I think Isis’ first paragraph is like entirely in line with how I’m thinking
But I’m bothered about how Isis is acting like Plus being limmed and flipping scum is a sure resolution of her and ensures her ability working. She can’t know that for sure, you know? So that kinda firms up my thinking of Isis/Plus

[Gamma Emerald]

I personally quite like sphenic numbers

[Gamma Emerald]

This stuff that’s going on rn is exactly why I have been so not-okay with how this day has played out
Plus seems to be riding as fast as he can in your blind spot, MCat. If you’re town you need to see the possibility there.

[Gamma Emerald]

Either Exorcists or Cobra could have shot Taylor
Speaking of shots either Cobra was specifically blocked or he didn’t try to shoot Isis at night
Doesn’t exactly match with having a hard guilty, no?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Plus
I think this is the only vote I’m gonna be okay with today.

[Gamma Emerald]

No. I’m going with my heart here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Literally nothing that didn’t go my way was my fault I feel like. I had NO SAY in the scum role assignment.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw while we never talked over discord me and nor did legit have a temporary falling out

[Gamma Emerald]

There was so many points where had I just said “no that’s wrong” we could have had a better shot
But the most important one, role choice, was one where I wasn’t even able to get my foot in the door. I’m honestly salty I got fucked over so hard. I won’t say just yet but I have certain...demands as a consequence of what happened this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, what would be the reaction to Witch Hunter being a three point role instead of 2? Seems strong for a 2 point role, compared to the other 2 points.

Yeah, cop and vig are both super hard to play around without PRs, and tracker is much stronger the moment it becomes 1 scum remaining.

sorry for being bad
no redactions in the scum pt

gamma, why did you mention that the undead can sacrifice points and then claimed an odd-number role?? like i wasn't reading closely after we died but the whole plan was to like, do the opposite of that?

I saw that as the only way to drive a wedge into the infinity-MCat townpair.

[Gamma Emerald]

I could have no killed though and not been directly guiltied right
Or did somebody

lie

?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I would not fucking blame you if you avoided this setup like the goddamn plague in the future, Nor

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to play a setup with global role choice, I know a PYP is already running but I think I’ve seen multiple Jungle Republics run concurrently and of that trash heap of a setup can be doubled surely PYP can

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma I am curious if you read that I was the final PR before the massclaim?

No I genuinely thought Infinity was it, and if I was right I was gonna tear into him for the confusing crumbs

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah the rolecop on you Plus doesn't make much sense either?

We were trying to set up Isis to fakeclaim healer

[Gamma Emerald]

And they were weak votes because egotisi lacked content. I won’t say I absolutely would have done what I did there as Town but I totally could have. You attacked us for trying to bring a low content slot into the limelight.

[Gamma Emerald]

A no kill would have looked fantastic for that looking back

[Gamma Emerald]

Isis you went down fighting that’s for sure.

What about me?

[Gamma Emerald]

By day play we were tops but we got clobbered mechanically

[Gamma Emerald]

This setup is pretty much a flip-flopped Stack the Deck

[Gamma Emerald]

And I think had gamma not fake claimed we still would have had to go to Elo to win because I think I would have pushed for xof to be elimed first.

How would I win that limlo? I come in at best less TRed than the other suspect on the chopping block

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes, she did
Despite that having lower odds

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm curious why you gave isis all 3 maf prs.

I’ll let either Isis herself or the scum PT explain

that one

.

[Gamma Emerald]

I definitely would have picked Avenger over Banshee

[Gamma Emerald]

Scum should maybe get the number of PRs and which ones were rolled
Full setup info seems broken

[Gamma Emerald]

And now the truth is laid bare. Now the damned soul seeks its due.

[Gamma Emerald]

We just saw that the setup was probably 3 Joats 3 trickster and I felt we were disadvantaged

Who is this we
For the most part it seemed to be just you

[Gamma Emerald]

What distribution did you think it was?

I didn’t get a chance to even speak on it but just by odds 4 WH 1 trickster was twice as likely

[Gamma Emerald]

Being damned for sins not of his own hands, a man seeks a second chance. Blood must be paid for with blood.

I want to play a game as a

Mafia Guilty Child Treestump

. This is a mechanic used 4 times prior, mostly with Pine playing the part I seek. The reason I ask for this is generally that type of game gives a large amount of control to the scum stump when it comes to setup design. It also reduces the burden I have to bear regarding staying alive, as I am not truly a living slot in the game. This sort of game would be the perfect opportunity to clear the seed of rage I have from this game.

Now for the other side of the coin. I would like for Isis tone involved in the game in a major way. Either she can mod the game or she can play foil to me as Town Innocent Child Treestump. Either way I would like her to be a major participant.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh it could have been 2 WH 5 tricksters but that’s just not a balanced game at all I think

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to be the special role (or at least one of them)
This is the thing I asked about in the scum PT that might seem a little harsh

[Gamma Emerald]

Then we kinda both have roles we prefer that complement (you prefer town stump as you don’t have to defer to anyone, and I want scum stump to have a game where I control my destiny). Now we just need a mod!

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82018
This is the type of game I speak of btw

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma how the hell did we pivot from "I will never forgive you for this scum game" to "I wanna do an invitational and give you a special role" lol

ikr

The thing is I’m not directly angry at Isis. I’m angry that we lost because of things that were out of my control, and I feel like the things that I could have controlled but didn’t were decisions Isis made instead. But I’m not irreconcilable about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mostly just think putting it all on one player was just a bad move since none of us were really solid Deepwolf options

[Gamma Emerald]

In theory yes. In practice none of us had the pull needed to deepwolf from Page 1 all the way to endgame.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma actually understanding the setup was a scum tell

nah I also derped on it hard
I have more words but it probably requires nearly all my ongoings rn to end
actually, just 2 now that I think on it

[Gamma Emerald]

was Kanna also part of Exorcists?
also is Clerics a legit player or another alt nested within that hydra

[Gamma Emerald]

Hectic and Krazy is every alt ever

mood

[Gamma Emerald]

As it stands if I’m having to handle a situation where you’re both signed up to I game I’m gonna mos and have issues with each other I’d probably tell you both to pack sand
Neither of you seems very mature in this situation.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the issue is you guys have moved past the original problem but still clash over the fact you feel slighted by the other
You probably should try to reset your opinion on each other, scraping away any bias while trying to keep certain eccentricities in mind

[Gamma Emerald]

so know you see how screwed I was this game lmfao