PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

Creature asking for people to reconsider because me because I voted him looks bad

[Dunnstral]

I'd vote for Ydrasse too

I suspect any number of Murdercat/Creature/Ydrasse right now

[Dunnstral]

Noraa and mastina are my two odds on faves for scum.

Unlikely

[MURDERCAT]

ah Murder is scum

Say more friend

[Dunnstral]

ah Murder is scum

Say more friend

I townread every single one of your 'scumreads'
And you were keeping your reads close earlier as if you had something special, then came out with the most generic copy pasted reads possible

[Bell]

I agree with Pichu

Ircher does sound very bad

I wanna vote Ircher, Creature, Nk15.

This is an awful take. Creature/NK15 seem like easy targets to pick on. Also, NK15 hasn't done much at all... How are you reading him as scum already?

[quote="In post 788

Defends NK15 and creature. Another decline. Mixed with creature decline. I've only seen Ircher break time line on reread 3 or 4 times. Where it didn't seem like he wasn't catching up. How does this process work for you Ircher?

[Bell]

I knew, I'd mess that quote up. shakes fist*

[MURDERCAT]

I townread every single one of your 'scumreads'
And you were keeping your reads close earlier as if you had something special, then came out with the most generic copy pasted reads possible

I'm not sure where you think I was making a big deal other than my Noraa read.
What is your solve?

[Bell]

Like it seems like to me you really do not care about being correct on my slot.
You won’t explain your read and now you’re just attacking me by saying I’m attacking everyone who is suspecting me

And also that’s NOT what I am doing.
I think Pichu and Ydrasse is town, I haven’t attacked battle mage or not known at all ever since they formed their reads on me, and the only person I attacked is you, and I’m attacking you because your vote is opportunistic as all hell and I want to know what the fuck is going on because all you’ve been doing is voting town + DEB

Which of the three would you want yeeted, GTH?

Town

Pichu - kinda just super obvtown tbh
Ydrasse - Pichu verifying the conclusion I got from my meta dive is good. Also they're probably better at reading the slot than I am. Have you read 1102



Battle Mage - If he's softing a PR then I don't really care about poking this tree right now. I feel like I just feel like there are more productive things to do?








Not Known 15 - Honestly I've seen town play this bad but I've also seen scum play this bad and I would kill it regardless tbh.
Dunnstral - I have no idea what he's doing

Scum

what if this is a bastard game and flavor leaf is the town stump and pooky is actually a soul scum mason
anyway your turn to pick

(Honestly, with Pooky doubling-down on the lim pool of 4 when we still have a week left in Day 1, it sure feels like this is the case.)

>hello everyone ^^
>i'm just gonna spam the thread and make it unreadable lolol

I can imagine this is actually a scum strategy this game. And to be quite honest, it is working well.

record mentioning she dislikes playing scum a lot
so if Flavor Leaf did any research he's not picking her most of the time

This isn't in any way indicative of town!Ydrasse. It is the very essence of a WIFOM argument.

there's a genuineness and SOULvibe to it which would be hard to fake as scum
also she fluffs less and it feels more stilted when she's scum

Noted, but I'm not convinced.

This isn't a red flag?

No, but since nobody thinks they're town, let's get them out of here

Eh, I think Not Known 15 raises a good point. Scum are rather incentivized to attempt to protect their buddies, and while distancing might be common, there's generally at least one buddy who will help you out. A consensus scumread on a player is a sign that that player may actually be town.

it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content

I agree, especially Ydrasse, pichu and Polar Bear Express.

Maybe FL told them to post cringey content to minimize everyone else's will to play?

Sadly, it's very unlikely all three of them are scum.

This is an INCREDIBLY bad take from Creature and I am inclined to think that such a horrendously bad series of posts from Creature is strongly indicative of him being scum.

(In reference to 1116.) How so? From my perspective, it's a pretty accurate assessment. They are 1) posting a lot 2) not posting stuff that helps drive the game forward and 3) generally making it difficult for people who are behind to catch up by the sheer volume of posts. Also, Creature didn't really assign an alignment to any of the named slots; he suggested it may be a possible scum strategy, but that's a fair assessment. Finally, you don't seem to take issue with Dunnstral's comment. What makes Creature's comment worse than the comment of Dunnstral's that Creature quoted in his post?

Pichu and Ydrasse have content. some dumb dumbs just can't see it -__-

Sure, they both have content, probably more so Pichu than Ydrasse, but it's buried under all the fluff. So, when people go read their posts, they have a tendency to skim past posts because of the fluff, and they miss the little amount of content that is intermixed with the fluff.

At bottom of page 46.

Battle Mage

(6):

mastina

,

Creature

,

Toogeloo

,

Spiffeh

,

Dunnstral, Double the Trouble

Ircher

(6):

Solstice

,

Netflix and Chill

,

MURDERCAT

,

Bell

,

Polar Bear Express

,

Dr Easy Bake

Double the Trouble

(4):

pichu, Ydrasse

,

Not Known 15

,

Battle Mage

MURDERCAT

(1):

Ircher

So here's the VC colorcoded with my reads:

Red = confscum; orange = scumreads; yellow = lean scum; black = de facto scum;
Green = conftown; blue = strong town; cyan = lean town; white = town with a healthy dose of paranoia.

The Battle Mage wagon, aside from Creature, with some paranoia on Spiffeh, seems largely pure.
The Ircher wagon, aside from MURDERCAT and DEB, is mostly good, but isn't nearly as pure.
The Double the Trouble wagon, while having a def-town front half, is pretty damn scum in the second half.

[Flavor Leaf]

Battle Mage

(6):

mastina

,

Creature

,

Toogeloo

,

Spiffeh

,

Dunnstral, Double the Trouble

Ircher

(6):

Solstice

,

Netflix and Chill

,

MURDERCAT

,

Bell

,

Polar Bear Express

,

Dr Easy Bake

Double the Trouble

(4):

pichu, Ydrasse

,

Not Known 15

,

Battle Mage

MURDERCAT

(1):

Ircher

[Ydrasse]

bells in black by himself to avoid associating him w anyone

[Ydrasse]

that’s my hard read

[Creature]

lol mastina had BM as confscum

[Bell]

I think I made a mistake... norwee wasn't as spammy as it looked to me yesterday. Strange.

Town treestump or not, this is still an awful post and awful idea, and I'm going to continue repeating this until you reevaluate. I townread at least half this pool (including me), probably 3/4s even. (Battle Mage is the main question mark due to not contributing over the weekend.)

Yaknow what.

I think I'm going to actually call Ircher town for this.

It might seem odd.

Out of all the things Ircher's posted, this is the thing that makes me think town?

But actually...as a matter of fact: yes.

I do not believe that scum-Ircher takes this approach to the town treestump. I realize that he's in the list so he has reason to say this regardless, but the way he's going about it and the mindset and attitude is something that I don't think scum-Ircher has the gall to do.
Specifically because.

I expect the scum here to, unless absolutely desperate, mostly sheep the ic and try to get on Pooky's good side to manipulate Pooky.
Ircher's post here is doing the opposite and it doesn't look out of desperation. He's actively antagonizing Pooky, something that is likely to earn the ire of our conftown. And that's not something I think he does if scum, especially not with FL at the reigns.

So, yes: I am going out on a limb here and saying Ircher is probably town here now.

Yes, really.

So I happen to actually agree with his assessment here; I think 3/4 of the names in Pooky's list are town, with the only scum being Battle Mage.

Does scum-Ircher take this approach if FlavorLeaf asks them to, and if yes, is it likely that FL asks them to?
Don't forget: FL made a mistake by telling us they meta-ed everyone - it means that they'll likely be able to make meta less effective here.
As a result,

you should throw all meta susceptible to FL intervention out of your reads

And I think it was possible that mastina could have been bussing battle mage, and I was going to take steps to find that out
But now I can’t because now its known that I thought it could be a possibility
Thank you norwee

but FL does weird things to people too. In our last game, he turned OutWorldER from a moderate into the most brazen blatant scum ever, and still managed to win.

Don't forget: FL made a mistake by telling us they meta-ed everyone - it means that they'll likely be able to make meta less effective here.
As a result,

you should throw all meta susceptible to FL intervention out of your reads

Yeah...

isn't that basically what i said?

Yes, exactly... but I said it earlier(just like I said, accidental misquote of post 1810 mixed with yours)
and yes I agree with this obviously and I hope this throws out some people townreading other people for easily copyable meta...

Ircher (5): Netflix and Chill, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

Hmmmmm we have a double-voter.

I think Norwee-Alisae is probably scum. Hard to believe 2 such capable players, 1 of whom has lots of experience with me, would both be scumreading me here.

have you read ur own title?
You come across as the kind of player that would try to soft something for towncred.

Also mastina is very convincing tbh its quite unusual.

sorry, i should introduce myself:

Hi Alisae, I'm Battle Mage.

My title is from like 2010 - when I used to get mis-elimmed all the time.

I had a 10 year hiatus.

Since returning at the start of 2020, I have only been mis-elimmed once, and have not been mis-elimmed in my last 34 consecutive completed games (although that may be about to end here of course haha!)

if you're claiming to find mastina convincing when I've already debunked her case on me, I think we're going to struggle to have productive conversations.

pfft lol

That's what I thought too, but Norwee didn't spam at all(all their posts have to do with reads and such). It's Alisae who's the culprit there.

Ace deduction skills as always.

I mean i've quite clearly labelled all of my posts so there really should be no business in confusing me with Alisae.

- Norwee

I provided some awhile ago. I guess I can provide a more comprehensive set.

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) - Initially leaning scum, but I think it might just be the slot's abrasive nature, so I'm gonna town bin this slot actually. They've made some good observations.
Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - Town. Good takes in general.
Spiffeh - Maybe town? I'm worried about Spiffeh trying to pocket me/defending me because it will look good if I am eliminated and flip town. Nothing particularly scummy or townie that I've seen.
Creature - Not sure. I'm not super familiar with Creature's meta shift and haven't been deeply evaluating his posts. They always make me want to skim tbh.
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) - Probably town, but has had a very bade case of OMGUS this game.
Ydrasse - Scum for reasons I've outlined earlier.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - Maybe scum? There were some good observations about Tweet's tone earlier; it's a bit too formal.
pichu - Lean scum, but I may reevaluate this read at some point. I still think their early interaction with Ydrasse looked bad, but pichu looked better between the two. Has had a couple good takes since then.
Not Known 15 - No idea. Haven't seen too many posts from them. What U do know is that they're a rather serious and logical player.
Toogeloo - Not sure; slight twinge of scum maybe. Entrance was OK; hopping onto my wagon was kinda ehh.
MURDERCAT - Scum. I recently posted my thoughts on the matter.
Battle Mage - Maybe scum? I haven't read his recent posts, so it's too early for me to judge.
Bell - Lean scum. The way they pop in and out of the thread makes me think they have an ulterior motive.
Dr Easy Bake - Not sure but high scum equity. Refuses to play the game.
Dunnstral - Lean town. I gave some reasons in my last few posts.
mastina - Town. Generally bad takes from what I read, but she's definitely scumhunting and while she's efforted before as scum, it's still rather rare. I'll reevaluate when I have to.

[Ircher]

Ok, maybe I'll try to work with Spiffeh for now if he ever shows up and shows interested in actually finding scum.

This comes out of nowhere? Why starting at this point and not say earlier? Why Spiffeh in particular?

This feels very townie. Not sure if it will matter though.

I disagree. Bell's actions post-claim do not seem to be in accordance with what Bell wrote. As they say, "actions speak louder than words." If Bell puts those words in action, maybe I will reconsider.

It sounds like basically just as useful as a like tracker which is pretty powerful.,

(Side tangent: Contrary to popular belief, trackers actually aren't that strong especially in large games. They are only strong late game when only one scum is alive.)
---
Honestly not sure what pichu is trying to accomplish talking to the scum treestump. It's all WIFOM, and Flavor Leaf didn't even give clear answers... SO it just ends up cluttering up the thread.

i’m full of love and warmth and no one ever recognizes that,

I would like to see a bit less fluff and a bit more content/solving from your slot. I currently have no idea what your reads are.

K, I'm detective.
N1 I investigated Toog who killed no one.
Good job everyone.
Good job.

This is, at the very least: a plausible claim with a plausible target.

I just happen to not believe Bell's town from it.

In my opinion, the claim is utterly dead null. It does nothing to make Bell more scum, but also does nothing to make Bell more town.

So where does that leave me?

Still voting Bell because I'm scumreading him anyway.

I think this is a 100% reasonable take, and one that I myself agree with. Well for the most part anyway; the claim is technically +town equity for Bell but only marginally so.

Dunstral's talking to them like they're town here, there's no real sign in a change of an external disposition before this it's hard to know because of playstyle.

(About 1109.) I didn't get the impression that Dunnstral is treating Not Known as town here; it seems more like Dunnstral is making a normal (and polite) response that would be made to either alignment. (I guess if you are scum reading a player, you may be more dismissive, but politeness does not by any means imply you think the person you are talking to is town.)

@BELL you got some serious splaining to do.
I'm mad that you are making me sign a death warrant so early in the game, but no you aren't the detective, I am.
I'll give you the benefit for like two seconds if you can explain why you would fake claim detective.
Otherwise, I'm dropping the vote and hopefully the hammer.

Oksy, here is the actual CC post from DEB. The fact that DEB is giving the benefit of the doubt here is very +town equity for their slot. Scum!DEB benefits very little from such a move (as he's a goner regardless.)

(I would personally not give the benefit of a doubt in this instance, but eh...)

What, am I a rookie? Is Bell a Rookie?

You telling me that I would literally take any action at all on N1 as scum after claiming VT? Watchers and Trackers would keep me from ever taking an action after a post 1 VT claim let alone worrying about someone specifically checking I did the kill. Even more so with the fact that we know that scum can multitask.

This post pings me as a rather bad reaction to mastina's claim that Bell's claim was plausible. I think the thing that pings me the most is a tracker probably wouldn't outright target a VT claim; I almost certainly wouldn't. The fact that Toogeloo sees this as an attack on their skill level rather than as an alternative viewpoint is concerning to me.

[FL says "Town must have at least two of the same power role" or just straight up says 2 detectives.]

[i'm a little surprised no one thought of that in response to 3467. Like i doubt it, but stiiiill, it's the first thing that came to mind for me.]

It's possible I guess. But as I mentioned in an earlier post, double investigative role can be problematic balance-wise. It doesn't strike me as particularly likely.

Plus, if DEB and Bell are both town here, we're probably doomed anyway, so we might as well assume one is town and one is scum.

I checked Ircher last night, they're chill.
Bell, convince me not to vote you as lying scum pretending to save face by being detective.

Is there a particularly reason you chose me? I would like some insight on your current thoughts.

If Detective is as weak as the claim sounds, having two in town with the exact same modifiers doesn't seem implausible. You have to literally catch the killer that night, right?

In fact if you both are claiming the exact same thing on a rather obscure role, it seems more plausible you are both town.

No, not at all. I know that for the normal queue at least, putting two of the exact same role aside from either a) roles that are confirmed regardless (i.e.: friendly neighbor, innocent child) b) neighbors or c) masons is going to raise some eyebrows at a minimum. It's not particularly common especially when it comes to investigative roles. Part of this is due to how claims are treated; in the normal queue, it's generally accepted that there's only one of a precise role, so two people claiming the exact same role is generally considered a counterclaim or of opposite alignments at least. Even with roles like Fruit Vendor, there tends to be different modifiers if it's repeated. It's not amazingly rare, admittedly, but it is much rarer than what is typical.

So my thought on this is that it's probably a classic FL scum-scum claim where both players claiming the role are scum and neither is town.

I think the one hole is that the other has to explain why they are still alive. That doesn't sound like an easy task to me.

idk i've seen him like this as town as well which is the annoying thing
hence why i think it's nai
the constant whining about people needing to do more and his takes themselves - like the scumreads on you/spiffeh are scummy though

(This aligns with what I've observed from Creature.)

Lolol, you think I'm just gonna out it rn, I'm building a case.

Of course, I was sincere in my posts yesterday.
There's a lot of paperwork involved.
I have my catch, but I need to flesh out the evidence before I can present my findings.

I started late, but here are the obvious crumbs.

While my D1 may seem like a waste of time to many
I’m paying attention to every single way you react to me
Each detail is fused as a blueprint to solve this game
I am the greatest detective
I am better than Batman
I am Flavorman

Eh I think those crumbs could have been repurposed (if you get what I mean), BUT it's better than nothing, and it does make sense. I will also note both of those are from D2... not sure what to make of that.

At the bottom of page 147.

[Bell]

When I say stuff like that, it's always an invitation for them to come in and talk.

[Double the Trouble]

mini normal archives

[Bell]

What am I looking at here?

[Double the Trouble]

the archived mini normals
we're looking for repeating roles
do you see anything that is shown in the setup twice cuz I sure as hell don't!

[Double the Trouble]

Like I'm sorry, I don't think this game has 2 town detectives and deb is (weirdly) more likely town than you are and if your flip actually helps me solve the game way more than anything else

[Double the Trouble]

If ur scum and u die here, its game over for your team.
If ur town and u die here, its very likely that I can reach a very likely solve that definitely has scum in it and probably wins the game.
Its not as good as a Creature flip and quite frankly I would be surprised to see it flip scum given this gamestate.

[Double the Trouble]

Can u post a reads list Bell?

[Bell]

What do you think I'm doing rn?

[Solstice]

[Is there a point you're trying to make with that quote tower, Bell?]

[pedit: Oh good we're still in business then!]

~Morning

[Bell]

I'm looking at the play around UK15.
Then the play around BM.

Then I'll make narratives.
Give a full accounting of my own logic etc rather than ignoring every accusation thrown my way.

Actions speak louder than words.