Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Datisi]

Vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-01-04 23:00:00).

execution

NoPowerOverMe [4]:

ben dover123, PenguinPower, Lunar Martian, HeWhoSwims

Elements [2]:

Alchemist21, Hayker

Kazyan [2]:

Papa Zito, Gamma Emerald

PenguinPower [2]:

NoPowerOverMe, Kazyan

Alchemist21 [1]:

2ndchosen1

Hayker [1]:

Dannflor

Gamma Emerald [1]:

Elements

Not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ yeet

flavour

[Kazyan]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

[Lunar Martian]

I still disagree with Dannflor's assessment of Elements, but:

1) I would rather not do this again,
2) Discussing such old posts isn't advancing the play state or anything,
3) Putting pressure elsewhere will get us more information,
4) When we have a lot of newer arguments to deal with, there are bigger fish to fry, and
5) Even if we get down to brass tacks, the Elements wagon isn't happening.

With all that in mind: UNVOTE: Elements

Penguin is now talking, but not actually saying much. I don't like it.

I'm willing to call Alchemist and Hayker as light scumreads. I know I used Hayker's post as a template with which to lay out my thoughts, but that doesn't remotely mean Hayker is town.

I don't know which of the three would be productive to put some info-squeezing pressure on--Hayker, Alchemist, or Penguin. They all have one vote each. The NPOM wagon is tempting, but I'd like more information from the sources that aren't giving as much of it; I might switch to NPOM if we get to 6 votes there. So...I'll just pick one. VOTE: Penguin

I like this post, especially the bit in the middle about Penguin. The bit at the end detracts from it though.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Alchemist21

I'm extremely curious about this vote.

Initially he read to me as someone putting in activity without much info coming out of him and I'm rather comfortable sitting on said vote for now.

Gamma/Alchemist/Hayker] lean more towards scum to varying levels of confidence.

Why do you think Hayker is scum?

This feels defensive and off especially as quote below is same post

Hayker seems more intent on justifying their actions then in actually following through with their actions (I can explain this more if needed).

As for Kazyan, don't let them Ryan you. if you are town, maybe they have motivation to shoot down your posts and frustrate you.

I didn’t see his reason for Hayker. I saw his reason for Gamma and would have asked about it if I hadn’t.

How are you getting “defensive” from that post as opposed to “he didn’t see that part?”

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Kayzan

I don’t buy the explanation in 376

[Dannflor]

No, they just give me a green name to inform everyone of my alignment. I'm basically Dann's IC mason brother.

this is true

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Kayzan

I don’t buy the explanation in 376

it tastes of lamist

[Dannflor]

I like this post, especially the bit in the middle about Penguin. The bit at the end detracts from it though.

so uh, is it good or bad

how does it affect your view on Kazyan in general

why is the end bad

[Papa Zito]

Actual question - You feel Alchemist is a worse offender of "activity without info" than anyone else in the game?

I mean what I initially saw was someone seemingly active, then dropping off enough to be prodded. it was more just to see what happened.
rn I'm more comfortable keeping the vote there due to the interaction with Dann. it wasn't an ask for elaboration just a "but why" when the basic reasoning was in the post.

Which interaction with Dann are you referring to here?

[Kazyan]

My explanation was a confirmation of Gamma's guess. Therefore:

1) Gamma has voted me because of the suspicion that I am worried about optics.
2) Alchemist has voted me because of the suspicion that I am

not

worried about optics.

These cannot both be correct lines of reasoning, regardless of alignment.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

[Kazyan]

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.

2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.

In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.

[NoPowerOverMe]

@Kazyan: It seems wierd that you voted for PP, which I pushed, AND you said my wagon was tempting. Do you think I am bussing PP?

[Gamma Emerald]

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

1) I mean, yeah. I sheeped. That happened. I'm not going to defend it, because I definitely sheeped.

2) My post confirmed your claim that I was concerned about optics. Alchemist does not buy my post's explanation that you are correct. Therefore, Alchemist does not buy that you are correct. You claim is that I was concerned about optics, so Alchemist does not buy that I was concerned about optics. This is subject to change based on whatever Alchemist tries to backpedal on.

In the future--assuming I don't get eliminated--is there something I can do to make my lines of reasoning more clear? Between the two rounds of Elements debacle and this confusion, it's apparent that I'm not great at clarity. Dannflor's earlier null read on me seems to corroborate this.

I can't really say my opinion is the best in this situation but I'd suggest a sort of flowing method of expressing yourself. Don't try to filter your thought process too hard, let people know what you think as you think it, sort of a stream-of-consciousness approach.

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan: It seems wierd that you voted for PP, which I pushed, AND you said my wagon was tempting. Do you think I am bussing PP?

Your vote did not factor into my decision. I do not know, or care, if you're bussing Penguin.

[NoPowerOverMe]

You don't think potential mafia interactions are an important thing to consider?

[PenguinPower]

No, they just give me a green name to inform everyone of my alignment. I'm basically Dann's IC mason brother.

this is true

Just wanted to make sure this didn’t get lost mason buddy.

if indeed the slot turns out to be limbaity

Maybe I misread in my catch up, but wasn't ben's defense that LM

was

limbaity based on meta? If that's the case, using prior knowledge, wouldn't ben have a reason to do what he did as scum?

Lunar Martian is also leaning town, not for being limbaity but for other reasons I'll expand on if people need them.

yes pls scumbudy.

[Kazyan]

You don't think potential mafia interactions are an important thing to consider?

They are, but the fact of the matter is that I didn't consider them. I hear that Day 1 interaction analysis isn't good.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Strange, I've heard the opposite.

[PenguinPower]

I hear that Day 1 interaction analysis isn't good.

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't think potential mafia interactions are an important thing to consider?

They are, but the fact of the matter is that I didn't consider them. I hear that Day 1 interaction analysis isn't good.

idk why but I vibe with this post

[Alchemist21]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

I think their post was a bs reason made to hide that they’re sheeping the IC.

[ben dover123]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

wait what
I can't understand this post for my life

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not exactly a fan of this post, specifically the omnibus of reasons to unvote Elements. It looks like Kazyan is quite worried about the optics of that move.

100% correct. Previous posts by me have largely drawn an unexpected amount of shade because my rationale wasn't completely exhaustive, so I gave an exhaustive rationale this time. I'm comfortable with being called scummy for giving as much information as I can to the town.

That seems understandable but there's also the sheeping issues and I feel like it's a bit excessive even then?
I'm curious where Alchemist said anything about lack of optics concern though. Alchemist, if that is correct, why do you find that scummy of Kazyan?

I think their post was a bs reason made to hide that they’re sheeping the IC.

okay

[Lunar Martian]

I think Kayzan is Town.