Spoiler:
I still stand by my opinion that the defense on flavor is weird. I've seen shelly's defense on flavor but it was nothing like this.In post 533, Andresvmb wrote:In post 349, shellyc wrote:Do you think the audacity is scum!AI?In post 338, unwnd wrote:You're townreading someone who has the audacity to fucking self-vote and then play it off like he was trying to initiate town's motivation@Dunnstral, the closest anyone has gotten to potentially aligning with what you’re saying from skimming through a few ISOs would be this. And even then, this isn’t really focused on what Flavor would do as Scum, but it looks to me more of a theoretical point about how Town don’t seem to care about how they come across, and want to solve the game, and how what Flavor was doing up to that point fit that idea. I can keep looking, but I think your post is more of an attempt at discouraging people from TR’ing Flavor more generally, and using it as an excuse to SR anybody that defends Flavor.In post 350, shellyc wrote:Because I don't
"FL won a game openwolfin'" does not change that
FL has the capacity to openwolf but here I see it as being much less image-concerned and more spontaeous/rough
Look I’m fine with being wrong. Flavor is hard to sort. But I haven’t really seen anything particularly convincing.
Curious as to why if flavor get slack for being a good player, unwnd doesn't? As far as I'm concerned unwnd's townplay is 20x better than Flavor's.In post 539, Andresvmb wrote:I’m not ready to stick my neck out completely for Flavor. But you would agree that Flavor is a good player as Town and not just Scum yeah? So I am of the opinion that we should at least try and give Flavor some time to actually show their alignment and not just execute there because of a self-vote. We have enough players with a sufficiently strong reputation I think that we can quickly turn against Flavor if necessary.
I find it hard to believe that there’s this many people that are quite certain that Flavor is Scum when I’ve literally come out of several games where Flavor was impossible to eliminate even when Flavor was openly pushing a narrative that defied several events that had occurred throughout the game.
I could see this coming from town. This reeks of paranoia. At the same time, generally after being fooled by a player, you tend to be too paranoid of them for them to be ur top tr in ur next game together.In post 544, Andresvmb wrote:@unwnd I feel some frustration at the fact that there’s just not enough engagement from several players this game. But I’m still trying my best to put out reasonable reads. I just have a few relatively soft reads, and nothing I would fully go to war for. My strongest TR is probably shelly, but I’ve been fooled before so I want to see how this game goes before I solidify that.
very short. perhaps because he wants to avoid his scum buddy?In post 546, Andresvmb wrote:^I would maybe disagree on nopoint though. I don’t see the slot as Scummy. I thought that acknowledgment that the slip maybe wasn’t that to be a Towny response.
Like his defenses on Flavor and Shelly are all like suuuuper long blocks but this one on nopo is super short.
The problem is that he has hard TRed flavor all of this game. I think from that perspective there is no Dunn/Flavor dilemma and no figuring out to do? Like he's not taking a clear stance when he has voiced a hard TR on flavor all game. I feel like this is kinda a "if consensus starts shifting towards flavor, imma clear out a pathway for myself rn"In post 671, Andresvmb wrote:Sorry for being away I got distracted with a few things over the weekend.
I’m fine with my vote for now. I think there’s something for sure to be figured out between Dunn/Flavor. I also find that there’s a few people dancing around it, and more than a few attempts at moving it away, which means this hits one way or the other I think. Which explains why I’m comfortable sitting here.
There is no progression. And I have to say Titus dead really does not be shelly scum at all. Considering scum has nopo, their nk's are always gonna be on some important role. Nopo is really really good at finding prs. I've mentioned this before.In post 682, Andresvmb wrote:I can see that.In post 678, Dunnstral wrote:I claim copIn post 675, innocentvillager wrote:Titus, Town Cop Enabler, was killed Night 1!
If you don’t get a CC I will trust that this is true and you are Town. However, this also means that you performed a check last night yeah? Who did you target?
Just thinking strategically, anybody who was voting a vanity wagon yesterday deserves scrutiny. I think the Scum intentionally wanted to avoid having the Town actually consolidate, which we need to do a better job of.
I’ll put my vote here for now - VOTE: shellyc
This is pretty bad honestly. Shelly loves bussing and this is something you said a while ago too. Yet you just straight up are like "they are town if shelly is scum"In post 683, Andresvmb wrote:In post 629, shellyc wrote:To elaborate on how i find titus/dunn/N_M scummy
titus' vote on FL was to "get momentum" despite a few wagons competing for momentum. titus did not explain why he picked the FL wagon.this was the latest VC when titus posted his vote. it is clear that multiple players had 2-3 votes.In post 502, innocentvillager wrote:1. Titus [0]:
2. Andresvmb [2]: geraintm#33, JohnnyFarrar#232
3. unwnd [1]: shellyc#292
4. Flavor Leaf [3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339, Dunnstral#343
5. Hank Spankems [0]:
6. shellyc [1]: Titus#172
7. PlusJOYED [0]:
8. Not_Mafia [2]: Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365
9. JohnnyFarrar [0]:
10. geraintm [0]:
11. TheFuzzyLogic99 [0]:
12. Dunnstral [2]: Flavor Leaf#381, Andresvmb#403
13. nopointinactingup [1]: Not_Mafia#157
N_M quickly jumped onto the FL wagon bringing it to E-3 soon after titus had voted. the close proximity of these votes is out-of-place.
dunn voted FL for reasons basically voiced as a "policy" for "bad/scummy play". the bad part seems a bit like preparing for a town!FL flip and explaining "well he played bad"
which brings FL to E-2.
these votes which lack real conviction makes me really dislike this wagon.I think shellyc has exposed herself with these posts. I think shellyc should be flipped so we can clear everybody suspected here.In post 630, shellyc wrote:i wont compromise on FL
i agree with the sentiment that N_M is a "policy launch" and scum can easily jump on a town!N_M
i'd give titus a shot for further contributions tbh
I would launch dunn today. as well as {nopoint, johnny}
Like 1) this is definitely shady(a little bit) to Dunn and NM and 2) I know shelly flips town so then you get to be like "oh well .... ig Dunn and NM aren't conftown"?????
In one of my town games, the night 1 nk was a person that basically only talked about me and how I was scum. I died a day 2 lim for those arguments.In post 684, Andresvmb wrote:At the same time, it’s rather odd that the Scum would pick Titus as the kill. Titus was barely participating, and the only person they seemed to be gunning for was shellyc. There is a possibility here that we’re being played. Having said that, shellyc actively saying that they would look to join Dunn, but then end up on her own vanity wagon and failing to consolidate was not a good look. Frankly, I didn’t realize that no majority meant no one died. I would have played with more urgency towards the end of the day if I had seen that.
You're trying to not take blame for nolim here and u hid it in a paragraph.
I definitely do not like this post.
???????????????????????????????In post 693, Andresvmb wrote:I’m not saying Titus was absolutely right and Shellyc is surely Scum. I just came out of a game where Titus was horrendously wrong repeatedly. But precisely for that reason, the Scum could think that they can get away with taking out Titus with few consequences.
"Titus kill means shelly scum"
"well but its also possible it doesn't"
This kinda fits into my theory of nopo tying himself to Johnny.In post 760, Andresvmb wrote:Why so pessimistic geraitnm? There’s still a lot left on this day and some legitimate avenues of inquiry are being pursued.
I don’t think nopoint is Scum. And I TR Johnny now. So I will continue to vote where I’m at. Sorry shelly. If I need to consolidate onto Flavor I might just do that, but again I continue to be skeptical there to some extent.
I think Andres is really trying too hard to stay on everyones good side. Pocketing the people that he think will be able to guide game state and soft buddying those with potential. The 1v1 with me is solely because he's run out of options at this point.
Ur just trying to say it's shelly. Like all this "Titus died shelly is scum" line of thought is tiring and annoying and stupid.In post 761, Andresvmb wrote:@Fuzzy, I have a different view of how Scum tend to conduct NKs. I don’t think the Scum eliminate the players that are just strong in a vacuum, though of course that plays somewhat of a role. I am more of the mentality that you eliminate for one of two reasons: (i) game state control, or (ii) immediate threats. So of course you try and nuke PRs, as they are a threat, but also anybody that has an actual good sense of who is what, and will be listened to.In post 743, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:Thinking...
I doubt that Titus was killed (mainly) bc she was on scum. She might of been. My thinking is this because of the lack of a kill yesterday. Titus is a dangerous town player. It seems that she was killed because of her skills. I am prob wrong but I dont think scum feel very threatened atm. This is bc the disunity of the town
If you think Titus is a strong player, then why wouldn’t you also assume that they could have been right about what they were pushing?
The hypocrisy is not lost. Earlier someone told me he didn't care what I did or didn't do as scum. Yet here we are.In post 763, Andresvmb wrote:Also Hank hasn’t posted in 5 days, and from ISO’ing there (very little content, so you should go take a look), they were happy to just go along with the wrong Town view that was forming yesterday.
If you asked me, I would say Hank is trying to play as deep Scum. The other tell I’m seeing is that they keep saying that they’ll contribute, and to give them time, but then they don’t, and just keep finding excuses. I’ve done that before as Scum.
holy damn why is Andres so FUCKING SCUMMY?In post 764, Andresvmb wrote:@Fuzzy, geraintm, I suggest you begin putting votes down and actually making your views known, because you’re making the game harder than it has to be. Fuzzy you didn’t even vote yesterday.
Its very concerning that someone that's not a newbie is this damn scummy.
In post 765, Andresvmb wrote:@unwnd talk to me about this post. Are you really all that sure about your view of the game? You seem to be partly defending two players {Shellyc, Flavor} that are more than happy to vote for you and throw you under the bus, because they post a lot? Quantity of posting for the two of them is not indicative of anything at all. Particularly for those two.In post 745, shellyc wrote:fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read
I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here
In post 781, Andresvmb wrote:Like I don’t think this is *that* complicated either. Shellyc was pushing multiple players yesterday that are now either Confirmed Town or very likely Town mechanically. Pushing a Town player in and of itself is whatever - we can all be wrong. But the mechanical part of it - that was not planned. And so that is obviously forcing me to focus on Shelly again. The weirdest part (and Titus spoke about this too) is that shellyc had a universe where she thought {Not_Mafia, Dunnstral, Titus} could be Scum. But her vote to end the day was on nopoint. That clearly demonstrates that Shellyc wasn’t eager to compromise and consolidate, which is Scummy behavior in context.
In post 782, Andresvmb wrote:You’ll also remember that I had Shelly as my top TR yesterday. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that my pre-conceived notions pointed to Shelly Scum, or that the argument I made was that Shelly’s meta pointed to her being Scum. But maybe you could point to where I did.
In post 874, Insanoflex wrote:Hello. Here to fix this shitshow of a game. Have been following along somewhat passively and have general reads but need to do a full readthrough. Top of my head had andres and fuzzy as town at a glance, see Dunn has claimed an innocent on N_M, would put mafia in {unwnd, FL, noraa, plusjoyed, johnny, gera, nopoint}. Just as a preliminary grouping.
In post 876, Insanoflex wrote:shelly's start looks pretty town, goes together with noraa's replace-in looking town.
nopoint's vote on Dunnstral early on page 4 looked bad the first time I saw it, doesn't look any better on a reread.
In post 877, Insanoflex wrote:I don't feel like high efforting right now.
VOTE: nopointinactingup
Haven't liked the votes/pushes hes made, early townread of Johnny came across way too confident for what he'd done especially seeing as how at the time he was trying to string up dunn for a similar early townread.
In post 906, Andresvmb wrote:Also @plusJOYED I could buy your theory about the NK and Shellyc being framed. I need to think about that some more.
*sigh* I'm tired. I'll continue later.
