Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[NoPowerOverMe]

[quote="In post 663, Gamma Emerald"][/quote]

Mini Normal 2143: Opposed Drew-Sta wagon
Large Noraml 230: Opposed Pretentious wagon

may not seem like much but I have only played in 10 games and both times I strongly opposed a wagon that ended up flipping town on day one.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll let your sample size build up before I start buying into that.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Alchemist has more posts today than he had the entire game in the game I played with him.

[Dannflor]

give me an alternative that isn't penguin

[NoPowerOverMe]

2nd and Elements are the most suspicious on the Alchemist wagon I think.

[Alchemist21]

I’m not claiming for a wagon where not one person actually said why they’re voting me.

[Alchemist21]

give me an alternative that isn't penguin

Kayzan.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Hayker

[Dannflor]

they really just came in to say "wow looks like there's a wagon" and avoided the big scum case Agar drew on them

[Dannflor]

I'm going to do a quick Alchemist iso because I don't understand the hate on that slot.

Hmm. His iso is such a mixed bag. I'll wait for a claim to opine further.

also I think these were scum posts but it seems like people don't want to elim here today

[Dannflor]

I don't think it's unlikely that the Alchemist wagon is all town, regardless of Alchemist's alignment

the wagon built quickly and sketchily, and I was very purposeful about not actually building a case on alchemist

people basically just shifted there reads there because I said so enough times

That's something that townies who are unsure what to do do

scum are gonna stay far away from that wagon if alchemist is town, like far far away, just naturally there's not gonna be anyway for them to get on in a way that they feel will be natural, whereas I feel like a lot of the 'unconscious sheeping' and even some of the conscious sheeping by Kazyan is townie. most scum's first instinct is to not look like they are just sheeping

a scum reaction to that wagon (again assuming Alch is town) looks a lot more like Papa Zito's I reckon, or possibly Hayker, although Hayker's was more of a non reaction

[Dannflor]

If I indulge in this hypothetical world for a moment, let's say I clear the alchemist wagon and double down on my Papa Zito/Hayker being scum reactions theory

that probably leaves a team of papa zito/Hayker/HeWhoSwims

premature solve but I don't think it's unrealistic just based on how the votes have been moving today

[Dannflor]

Gamma, I think I've been a bit too suspicious of. There's a very particular thing he tends to do when he's scum that I've seen 0 of here so far, and he's been very active so I think it would have cropped up by now. I'm willing to town bin him.

NPOM whiteknighting Alchemist in a town!Alchemist world isn't necessarily townie, but I do like the way he seems to be having a real effect in changing the wagon rather than just saying empty words to grab town cred later

[Alchemist21]

Hayker is scum

How?

Take a look at their 12 post ISO. It'll take you all of 5 minutes.

The only attempt to figure anything out beyond dusting the surface is exclusively focused on Zito (457, 547 [look at that pseudosymmetry!]), using 11 year old meta in 457 and then flat out selling mistruths in 547. I like Zito. I do not want to yeet Zito, both because he is giving me some town vibes here and also because I like Zito. But Zito has not "come out swinging hard." I haven't felt any pressure being applied behind his votes - he's parked on Kayzan right now despite not mentioning him since post 301 on 12/28. I see his town mindset based on some other things, but 547 is straight up scum telling they know too much and fucking up when they need to justify a TR. They tried to feign some interest in Alchemist in 151 but never followed it up.

177 and 249 are opportunistic attempts to sway something to Elements while ignoring Elements' declaration that they were going to essentially troll a bit at the start of the game. Elements re-explains the joke in 266, and then they switch to "active lurking" in 268 to justify their continued stay. 373 is another fun question with no follow up, nor response to Elements's reply. They asked on Tuesday. It's Saturday.

The rest is background fluff meant not to rock the boat - nothing in 314, 319, and 422 does anything to move the game forward, to suss out Elements alignment more, or to branch to another read. Over the course of 24 hours they popped in 4 (373 was in this window and I've already touched on that) posts that could have just been posts of a 404'd image and it would've been the same contribution as them.

I agree there’s an odd focus on Zito there and the TMI point makes sense.

The tunneling on Elements is more NAI and I would only think 177 and 259 are opportunistic if Lunar is scum. Not sure why scum would feel a need to focus on Elements there and Town wouldn’t otherwise.

I could vote Hayker if need be based on the first part but the rest doesn’t really sell me on it.

And in fairness re 151 I had already said all I had to say regarding Elements so my response wasn’t something Hayker could have really followed up on.

[Dannflor]

It's weird, both Hayker and HeWhoSwims soft defended Penguin.

HeWhoSwims did so here

Hayker did here here

from recent memory, they are actually the only ones I've seen do that. at least Lunar and NPOM have been pretty against Penguin, I think others have been neutral at best.

Honestly, there is nothing to town read about Penguin's play. While, no, there isn't really anything to scum read either, I find it strange both of these slots find things to town read in Penguin's ISO. Neither really elaborate on what specifically they like or why they feel this way. To me, giving my working hypothesis has been that Penguin vs. NPOM and Lunar is a TvT clash of playstyles, the soft defense of Penguin seems like the type of read that oft comes from scum towards "low hanging fruit" or slots that may be considered easy to eliminate. They toss easy town reads that way without much thought because A. no one really cares about who town reads Penguin Power unless its me since two very loud players scum read him, and B. they figure they can scoop up free town cred just for throwing that read towards him later down the line

this could be a confbiasing point but that's just something odd that stuck out to me as I was rereading

[Alchemist21]

I do feel like Alhcemist hasn't really been solving like town!him does

I’m gonna leave this link here and say “deja vu”

viewtopic.php?p=12270447#p12270447

[NoPowerOverMe]

Hayker isn't my first choice but I can vote him as a compromise wagon.

VOTE: Hayker

[Dannflor]

the scummiest part about Hayker is based on the timing of how they've popped into the thread and what they've ignored in thread imo

[NoPowerOverMe]

Can you elaborate so we can get some more votes? I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I do feel like Alhcemist hasn't really been solving like town!him does

I’m gonna leave this link here and say “deja vu”

viewtopic.php?p=12270447#p12270447

Somewhat valid but there’s also the fact that you got better after I pushed you iirc

[Dannflor]

People will vote, and we've got time left in the day.

But essentially, I don't think the specific bits and posts they've pulled out of the thread to comment on in their posts is indicative of a town mindset. Rather, they seem to just be looking for things to comment on. And just most recently, I would think Hayker would have something to say about the case against them or the possibility of their own elimination, but nothing. Let's say they missed all that or were low on time, they could have at least offered some input on what they thought about the E-1 wagon at the time or whether anyone on the wagon was scummy. Their last two posts were basically just coming in and saying "we've got an E-1 wagon" and "we should get a claim before ending the day." While earlier in their ISO is full of questions, I see the same pattern of more looking for things to say rather than engaging with the thread proper

[Datisi]

Prodding HeWhoSwims.

[Datisi]

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[Datisi]

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[Datisi]

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