revO emaG - TENET

[Dandelion Wine]

Like if this was Trust Fund, I'd have Syr talk about blowing things out of asses right now.

I dunno what kind of snark ceph has but ceph when you read this, do it.

[Dandelion Wine]

Do you know how this game's mod got PTCD? Because, hooooollly shit is he gonna have flashbacks now.

[Dandelion Wine]

LEXI


YOU CAN BE A BRIDESMAID NOT A BRIDE SORRY NOT SORRY

[Dandelion Wine]

Bork.

Do you remember cakez in xeno. And his demand over and over and fucking over for "The case"?

[Dandelion Wine]

You two hit a red oil well.

[Dandelion Wine]

VOTE: turnstile skitter
UNVOTE: skitter

[Dandelion Wine]

You two hit a red oil well.

cautiousoptimism.tiff

.pdf.exe.ru

[Dandelion Wine]

I mean... if you're gonna speedrun cakez any% without any new material, that's cool?

[Dandelion Wine]

since they don't do anything without cabd's approval that means he changed his mind at some point

Oh piss off, that very much isn't the case.

[Dandelion Wine]

their role is very +scum and it's the biggest source of paranoia for me

also things like this is what's annoying. you know what his role is. this is apparently a relevant data point. i do not.
like actively playing in the dark is frustrating because i don't know why it's being played this way and you're making silly decisions off of it

Your lack of paying attention to data in the thread does not their fault or my fault make.

My role has already been talked about. Back on day two. A LOT.

[Dandelion Wine]

UNVOTE: dandelion

their role being outed is what needed to like make sense of what's happening. now there's a nice 'aha' moment and things start making sense again
i actually think he's just scum
(sorry ceph you're still awesome)

(i'm aware people are gonna shout omgus, etc, it's not. it's the claim/role, which would have been helpful to have a while ago but you know)

pedit good god that's literally a scum ability. you're pocketed

it happens to be a town ability. this is why you don't just kill people for role spec, which i'd think you could empathize with given how everyone tried to kill you over role spec. we only have 2 shots, if that helps.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

like from my pov: deacon votes me (slightly anglign towards there)
two hours later cabd comes back and decides to vote me (with very little prior progression)

given the whole ffery/cabd thing do you really think ti's an unreasonable concusion to think these two things are related?
like if there's other things prompting it they're not being brought up in thread so to me, from what i can see, those look like releated events

there's nothing really happening in the neighborhood right now they're just effectively masons it seems like
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

lets see if we can shake a wagon
UNVOTE: pooky

i checked and the votes on him are you/midway/skitter. we're like our own misfit tribe at this point

what a weird group of people.

UNVOTE: pooky

this post just, made me want to do this for some reason. i feel like nobody but lld thinks this slot is town and for some reason nobody cares
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

idk i know cabd is pretty focused on skitter right now and i dont like WHOLLY disagree even but i'm a bad boy and i'm going off script
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

VOTE: Brian Skies

VOTE: Brian Skies

i died inside from these posts back to back
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

Cool. The sooner I get eliminated the sooner I can stop giving a fuck about this game.

Maybe try not giving a fuck if you're town.
You're basically losing the game at this point by saying I'm scum anyway.

this post is fake, you are doing the same thing you're mad at him for doing
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

bell/hp are scum keeping brian in the pool he's literally so town shut up
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

pookster i think dunn said in the neighborhood that it was weird how we veered off you and found a town lim yesterday and that resonated with me
feel free to try to dissuade me of this. i feel like this game is just a train wreck and will continue to be a train wreck/whatever direction i end up looking in will inevitably be incorrect. help me see you, if ur there.
also like, ive been feeling like i was the one making my last few games miserable slogs for myself but in this game i have been eminently non toxic and it's still happening. :/
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i miss tammycho.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

and if you had killed me you would be saying the same thing about pisskop today

it's really amazing how many times this town wants to do the same thing over and over and is surprised by the shitty results

we're not even playing mafia at this point.

sure, maybe! but i don't know that! and if that's so, i would think scum would have preferred to be rid of you over someone who was not playing? or would they have been more afraid of a replacement?

so you're arguing you're lhf, basically? i guess i assumed you were like, good at mafia, and i have no basis for that except your legend status.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i mean yes you're right. we haven't been going after big players. my argument to that point is that hp are scum and i can't do anything about it right now. but you can be on the low end for charisma and still town it up. it's a whole thing. but i dont really see you doing much besides giving up. you said you'd like to nuke my slot a couple days ago and i don't know why/it doesn't seem like you really give a fuck abot that read or much of anything.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

Cephy what are your thoughts on Annie Edison?

conflicted. i hate hate hate their random titus vote yesterday, i dont get wtf they're doing today, but i don't think they're on hp's team
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i mean yes you're right. we haven't been going after big players. my argument to that point is that hp are scum and i can't do anything about it right now. but you can be on the low end for charisma and still town it up. it's a whole thing. but i dont really see you doing much besides giving up. you said you'd like to nuke my slot a couple days ago and i don't know why/it doesn't seem like you really give a fuck abot that read or much of anything.
-ceph

I can read a room dude

it's basically a bunch of people who all incorrectly read me except LLD and everyone is just angling to position better for ELo tomm so I'm sorry I find it difficult to scrounge up motivation for a game where I have little agency or say in who gets eliminated.

did you ever try? i would find this easier to believe if you had made an effort at some point and got shut down. it sounds to me (again, haven't read it) like the one time you pushed for something in this game you actually got it, so where is the cassandra attitude coming from
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

did you ever try? i would find this easier to believe if you had made an effort at some point and got shut down. it sounds to me (again, haven't read it) like the one time you pushed for something in this game you actually got it, so where is the cassandra attitude coming from
-ceph

um I'm not cassandra because cassandra actually knew who the bad guys were lol

so it's not "no one is listening to me," it's "no one would listen to me if i tried so why bother"?

i dont know if it's fair to complain about our decision making ability if you aren't willing to present an alternative
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

THE AMOUNT OF UPS AND DOWNS ON THIS ROLLERCOASTER

this rollercoaster only goes straight down

wheres the bottom

Ḧ̵̳͈̰̤̥́̈́̈̀E̶͍̿͞ͅL͍͕̳̈́̃͗̓̓̆̏̀L̫̥̼̤̯ͫͩ͡͡͝
͇̣̗͈̃̅̋̋̚-̊̄̎҉̣̺̱c̮̣̑̈́ê͉͓̺̩͍̰̘͇͐͗ͯ̉ͧp͖͔͙̮͇̼̭͓̉͐ͧͦ̎̒͝h̉͏̛͍͡

[Dandelion Wine]

the purple room keeps being put to use in ways that just isn't helping town? the obvious egregious example is spiffeh + superbowl. at the start of day2 cabd came in and was like 'we did something mysterious that is going to help town loads! we need to purple room superbowl and spiffeh' and it eventually unfolded that this was because there was a Super Secret Turnstile in the purple room and they would get to turnstile. i don't remember offhand the reasoning they gave for superbowl (strong pr?) and the reasonign for spiffeh iirc was 'imperium wasn't townrading them that strongly and we wanted to make sure we helped clear the forward thread if possible'. so that would imply that they had some suspicion of spiffeh and the fact that turnstiling him would activate his pr is a nice plus.

my understanding was, they both wanted to be turnstiled, so we could turnstile them, hooray. i was admittedly not paying the most attention ever. i don't know that i see what is so heinously mechanically incorrect about this but i haven't finished reading your post
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

so it's not "no one is listening to me," it's "no one would listen to me if i tried so why bother"?

i dont know if it's fair to complain about our decision making ability if you aren't willing to present an alternative
-ceph

it's like you guys know these things:

(1) The scum are pretty comfortable and in control of the thread so they are making nightkills that keep the game state static.
(2) We haven't killed any of them.
(3) Let's kill Pooky cuz clearly we haven't killed enough LHFs and if we just kill one more we can get to get off this ride wheeee!

like wtf is even going on.

but if they're in control of the thread, why are they using that control to not take a free yeet on you
& you can say this but then you can't identify the scum controlling the thread so ???
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

like cabd is supposed to be good at mechanics and stuff, right? why, after all of these machinations, has none of these appreciably helped town in any way? we spent two days on a dumb 'clearing the forward timeline of scum plan' that he had to have known wouldn't work, it was painfully obvious. like he's too good at this to keep putting all this energy into things that just aren't doing anything helpful for town.

i don't recall cabd being a particularly major proponent of that plan, and i'm sure i must have called it a fool's errand at least once
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i mean i don't have the information to tell you if that helped town or not but as a game i thought we had decided early on that needing to switch threads to use your role was possibly a towntell depending on how the initial setup worked (did scum get to choose who goes where? i feel like the mod answered this but i don't remember for sure)

i feel like in general activating PRs is a good idea, and it introduces some accountability for role usage if scum trueclaim
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i was confidently townreading owl yesterday and i don't think i was remotely alone in that
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

my understanding was, they both wanted to be turnstiled, so we could turnstile them, hooray. i was admittedly not paying the most attention ever. i don't know that i see what is so heinously mechanically incorrect about this but i haven't finished reading your post

Let's be real here. Did you guys just not consider me wanting to tunnel SB9 when you chose to send him over?

i can't really answer this as i've barely been involved in any mechanical decisions, it is not my forte
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i mean i don't have the information to tell you if that helped town or not but as a game i thought we had decided early on that needing to switch threads to use your role was possibly a towntell depending on how the initial setup worked (did scum get to choose who goes where? i feel like the mod answered this but i don't remember for sure)

i feel like in general activating PRs is a good idea, and it introduces some accountability for role usage if scum trueclaim
-ceph

i had the same conclusion as well but at this point you have to think not everyone with a pr who works in the other thread can be town right?

there's a good chance of that at this point because there are so fucking many of them and i have trouble imagining what scum could have to balance it unless some of them are liars or trueclaiming scum
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

I am stunned i am the only one concerned with grilling pooky.

i mean i was but i arrived at the conclusion that he just has zero interest in giving me anything to work with and would rather just bitch about how dumb i am or whatever
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

Spiffeh will be sent to the Purple Room from the Forwards timestream.

superbowl9 will be sent to the Purple Room from the Inverted timestream.

PRESS THE BUTTON AND BEAM THIS SHIT OVER

They flip sides.

They both "hit the button" and swap.

I don’t get what hench is getting at

I don’t get why this is the plan either.

I feel like the rules specifically say BY THE END OF N2 which makes me think this turnstile applies

The best the six of us came to on Spiffeh was tier 3, maaaybe tier 2, so yeah, it's a potential final shot at clearing your thread.

We're sending you our strongest townread. Much as I'd like to be in a less chaotic thread, there is no role reason for deacon to change threads, even assuming the whole forwards thread is townreading us...which may not be the case. I haven't been paying attention to how people read us over there.

here we go. i couldn't find it dandelion's iso cuz deacon said it. but dandelion was obviously involved in this decision

oh yeah i remember that now
i guess while i may have thought clearing one thread of scum was unlikely to work, i guess we might as well try? and the info that we didn't succeed is worth a little something?

it seems like your narrative doesn't add up to cabdscum. like, is he the pied piper leading the town astray when all this has done is neither succeed nor cause damage? what would you have liked to use all the turnstiles before that was so much better, besides turnstiling yourself?
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i wish i had a purple room with pooky to grill him in silence.
this skitter/deacon/dandellion stuff is a distraction methinks

didn't you think both us and skitter were scum at different points in the last like 24 hours

but i mean yes the thread does seem to keep finding its way to not talking about pooky somehow
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i'm p sure that at least one of {superbowl/spiffeh} are scum and got a nice pr activated

This literally makes no sense given publicly stated info we have that scum placed themselves pregame. And the fact that you're using this as a reason to scum read people is like uhhhhhhhhh?

[Dandelion Wine]

i mean i don't have the information to tell you if that helped town

or not but as a game i thought we had decided early on that needing to switch threads to use your role was possibly a towntell depending on how the initial setup worked (did scum get to choose who goes where? i feel like the mod answered this but i don't remember for sure)

i feel like in general activating PRs is a good idea, and it introduces some accountability for role usage if scum trueclaim
-ceph

ok, and again, we established that cabd is, like, good at this right? where are all the +town things he's been doing? like he's doing a lot of things, clearly. how are they helping town?

(i'm aware that your'e his hydra partner, but i am planning on belaboring this point)

while i agree that cabd is a good player, he also enjoys scheming up mechanics stuff even when it doesn't matter
i think the assertion that none of this has produced any value for town is taking bop to a level that is silly. we haven't even elimd many of the players who have been turnstiled. do you know their alignments, do you know that none of it helped? is he supposed to control, say, annie doing everything they could to get turnstiled as though they had a good role that needed to be even though they apparently don't?

-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i guess while i may have thought clearing one thread of scum was unlikely to work, i guess we might as well try? and the info that we didn't succeed is worth a little something?

it seems like your narrative doesn't add up to cabdscum. like,

is he the pied piper leading the town astray when all this has done is neither succeed nor cause damage

? what would you have liked to use all the turnstiles before that was so much better, besides turnstiling yourself?

it was never going to work tho, and i think he should have realized that.
and for the bolded, yes, except that i think it has caused damage because we've spent a stupid amount of time on wild goose chases

i don't know if we needed to go out of our way to turnstile sb9 and spiffeh that way

so in light of the fact that this was unlikely to work, your suggestion was don't try and you're scum if you do try? come on
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i can't really answer this as i've barely been involved in any mechanical decisions, it is not my forte

What? What does me scumreading the Owl have to do with mechanics?

i mean, anything about who to send over when i haven't really cared about
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

and the first time one of them flips town, I'll vote myself and we can kill me.

this is functionally meaningless wrt you having any stake in this bet, because you're going to ultimately back out of this as either alignment. which makes this stupidly performative and manipulative because it looks decent and real at first glance, but if anybody thinks abt this for more than two seconds it should be apparent that she won't (and can't) actually follow up on this, even if she's town

also aside, i just wanna call out that i think the narrative that you and cabd have pushed that gamma died protecting you is unlikely bordering on ridiculous in the gamestate at eod yesterday (long sidebar showing that i'm p damn accurate making these sorts of assessments that i'm sure nobody cares abt reading, blah blah blah)

pedit peta it literally loses the game if she's town and wrong. hence stupidly performative and manipulative ...

I agree that such an agreement is basically meaningless and probably won't be adhered to, but people do it all the damn time. It annoys me, but this is hardly a new idea or a scummy one.

LLD has said she thinks gamma might have died protecting her but also actively stated she doesn't really expect anyone to agree or care about this, and i think deacon was the one who suggested he might have saved deacon or us?

-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

LLd wants me there
LLd will presumably claim their role to me there

I can relay communication between the hood and purple room if needed, or not

I don't think this is unreasonable, I don't see how these other hoods would help us, no offense

no offense, but this is also really silly and pointless:
- no reason to add complexity to this game vis-a-vis more hoods
- like 2/3 of the game have claimed at this point, and we hsould just round it out. sending LLD to the purple room just to claim there accomplishes what exactly? no reason not to just finish massclaim at this point

Oh okay then we'll stop having hoods and purple room nobody just because you don't like them.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

i suggest a theory about your play and you pop in right away to go "lul that's not me lul"

no evidence nothing just "that's funny not how i am ahahaha"

yeah this is a little tiring. "nuh uh, self meta" doesn't work for other people why should it work for you

-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

am i really building a paranoia connection by entertaining the possibility of them being scum. i'm probably going to end up positioning myself against your bloc

I mean you are in the same breath

calling them scum

and

saying something is wrong with the game state and trying to work it out with them

if you thought they were scum you would not be solving the gamestate with them

you'd be solving it with me, the person who called them scum for 2 straight days and wanted to tunnel them and only stopped today.

Or do you have a magical christmas land where Deacon and I are scum together please pitch that for me

i'm just really a very uncertain person when it comes to late game

i never got this impression in the one game i played with you
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

Haven't read this thread yet but by all means please send hp so I can yet them directly into the fucking sun
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

Twelve. Fucking. Hours. Of work. On a single day traders machine.

I'm just now dobe with work but I gotta start again In like eight hours. I'm going the fuck to sleep please don't do anything stupid until I catch up or die of stress related heart attack. Whichever happens first.

[Dandelion Wine]

Lld you had like 5.5 votes on me (your whip count was slightly off, and i'm not *quite* sure you had the votes but it was p damn close), and you chose to send me to the other thread where you'll have sizeable less influence wrt this and where there's a p good chance i'll be able to talk my way out of it (no matter my alignment)

The goalposts, they just keep moving
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

I want Pooky to die because he never seems to be in the conversation anymore (both literally and the conversation to be hanged) and I'm finding that suspicious. I also don't think any of his content reads townie to me. He just ATE last night without really giving any reads. Sure, he said he didn't have any, but I would expect town Pooky to at least be doing something to try to get better reads instead of just lurking.

Even though I think pooky should die I'm not really satisfied with this answer on why you suddenly hate his guts
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

this is the least pleasant game I've been in and I'm not sure I've had a single player here other than skitter and LLD approach me in good faith to actually sort me or work anything out so I'm not sure why it's surprising to you that I have little motivation to work on anything.

I spent like 5 posts yesterday trying to get anything from you and you threw it in my face
Of course I'm done trying that
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

just blame us when we lose
everyone else is gonna

-b

im gonna blame ceph if he is town. Just to annoy him.

mean
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

this is the least pleasant game I've been in and I'm not sure I've had a single player here other than skitter and LLD approach me in good faith to actually sort me or work anything out so I'm not sure why it's surprising to you that I have little motivation to work on anything.

I spent like 5 posts yesterday trying to get anything from you and you threw it in my face
Of course I'm done trying that
-ceph

Lolololololololol like when u asked me how I wanted to be cooked or some shit

um

no

-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

oh, this thread got too real. uh, catch you tomorrow i guess.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

right forgot abt a50 when i wrote that
eh i'm not sure i agree with the notion that 2 were turnstiled over

i'm p sure that at least one of {superbowl/spiffeh} are scum and got a nice pr activated

This literally makes no sense given publicly stated info we have that scum placed themselves pregame. And the fact that you're using this as a reason to scum read people is like uhhhhhhhhh?

what do you think fo this post btw?

ceph's post makes no sense

ok so it struck me as a potential slip at the time, but i kinda forgot abt it until a few minutes ago, and let me explain why:

we know that scum got to choose which thread we got to start in. the underlying assumption in ceph's post, if i'm understanding it right, is that scum are able to choose which thread they can start in, and

would thus start in the thread that would enable their role to work

(i.e. if i'm scum and a forward watcher i want to start in forwards) and would distribute themselves accordingly. he's using this argument to counteract my argument that scum!spiffeh or scum!sb9 wouldn't bother trying to turnstile because they'd already be in the apropriate thread.

however it's not clear when scum got their roles in relation to choosing the distribution, and i just asked sircakez that and was informed he would not answer that question

i didn't make that post.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

skitter you were mostly talking to me, you'll note that is one of very few posts not signed by me today. ive been signing consistently.
-ceph

[Dandelion Wine]

It's been a helluva week. This game gets the spoons It deserves finally tomorrow.

[Dandelion Wine]

Peta: I find myself in a place where I very much townread LLD but my other townreads disagree with her case. So, this is me trying to re-ISO you and give you a fair shake, yeah? Especially after how the past 48 hours played out.

Petapan - Early Day One

Spoiler: Day 1 (Super Early RVS/Reads)

Peta starts the game with a vote (yeah I'm gonna use traditional voting and not the stupid reverse unvoting notation deal with it) on every slot, amused he can. That leads directly into some setup spec regarding a similar setup from the past. I generally liked both of these posts at the time, I see no reason to dislike them now. The town read on midway as of post 36 is incredibly early, but is also my gut reaction to the post as well. (Side note: I took 34 to mean that Midway was trying to softclaim a role that can turnstyle and survive if shot)

His early reads are ones that I also vibe with, or Ceph did, or both. Namely, scumreads on Hench and Noraa, initially. I do disagree that NOTHING was standing out in reverse, given he'd already called out town and scum reads here, but possibly stylistic. Trying to be objective here. Boy is post 112 prophetic....

Another complaint of "lack of interesting content" in reverse seemed to be a theme.

But then we get to the Noraa openwolf era.

Spoiler: Day 1 (Noraa Wagon)

The heat on Noraa starts at post 331. The crux of peta's early read basis is in post 363. Quoting it here for emphasis:

nora complaining about the pace of the game thread is actually factually a scumclaim and is just cover for her not being able to produce content given that the pace is not particularly fast at all

I actually questioned the read at the time, and peta's reply is also copied here for ease of reference:

nora complaining about the pace of the game thread is actually factually a scumclaim and is just cover for her not being able to produce content given that the pace is not particularly fast at all

Do you think she actually walks in and does another death scroll in a game with LLD in her half?

I am hesitant.

~TDB

i think this is a list she'd struggle to fake content in where i'd expect her to be bounding in with energy regardless as town while the complaint about pace is just...SO out of place from ms 81.21 posts/day, you know?

Peta then townreads LLD, and voices more detail on the town read of Obtusebear

(97%, having seen his towngame twice and his scumgame twice (spectating illicit substances)

granted the illicit read was a lot slower to come by and i missed him for most of day 1, but he still hit similar pitfalls with regard to struggling to post. if his later posts this game had done something to call the gutread into doubt i'd have gone back on it, but so far so good)

Other reads of note here are an initial scumread of "LHF" and then backoff on owl, and a scumread of unwnd for "pushing votes on owl and then suspecting LLD for voting owl"

nah postulating that the scum are over in otherworld attempts to discourage serious inquiry into the people in your own thread when the max difference is 2 people anyway and feeling like you're the 2 side this early is bogus

I did agree with this at the time, also.

Okay, back to Noraa-slot...

Posts with that progression/talking back to Noraa here:

The only thing I know is that I remember thinking that if Peta's SR on me wasn't RVS/a joke, he had a pretty big possibility of being scum for that ridiculous push.

I also remember checking in sometime this morning and seeing LLD say something or another about Peta being conftown or something. Or maybe it was Peta saying LLD was conftown. Either way, I didnt like LLD from that interaction either.

the people who scumread you are scum, how revolutionary

I posted my first post in the game and you were like "SHES SCUM"

It reads really bad if you ask me.

that was a half-serious gutread, that became serious the moment you complained about the game being too fast and bounced

don't blame us. blame yourself or RNGesus

Even though as we know in the end this wagon was a miss, I can't bring myself to hate this progression even if I squint.

Made it to post 1537... not sure that is actually going to be useful for anyone that isn't me, though... Should I even bother continuing this style?

[Dandelion Wine]

on reread i don't actually love the progression on noraa

especially culminating in 664; seems like he's piling on at a point where he should be looking for places he might be wrong; the point made in 363 is like, okay for a push but 664 implies a lockscum angle on it and eh

-b

I swear we seem fated to come to opposite conclusions, my man.

[Dandelion Wine]

Okay, so let's move on, i'm just gonna cover the big major points, then?


Peta's reads list coming out of the period I covered there was a townblock of (Technically just an endorsement of notsci's)...

Off the table for today-
Wine
Deacon
LLD
Fire
Superb
peta

Thoughts?

already unvoting most of those people so looks p dece to me

Literally all of these people are still alive, so no new data here, blah.

[Dandelion Wine]

Peta: I find myself in a place where I very much townread LLD but my other townreads disagree with her case. So, this is me trying to re-ISO you and give you a fair shake, yeah? Especially after how the past 48 hours played out.

^

[Dandelion Wine]

LLD when you come back can you let me know if you're still feeling the peta scumread given what all went down, and also if you are kind of break down more the whole "playing politics" thing you mentioned?

[Dandelion Wine]

cmd shutdown -r /f

[Dandelion Wine]

hydra discussion or pt discussio

i literally have not fucking posted in the hood i think in over a day
i've made probably 50 posts here in that time

I reserve the right to talk to my hydra partner as much as i fucking want lol. I'm not using it as a crutch and the constant insinuation that we're being cryptic in the here and now despite us having a fucking billion posts here is just not based in any kind of reality and i'm not having it

-b

think of peta as a politician

that's his talking point

it's what's winning him shit

he will keep hammering you and ffery and cabd and ceph with it

and i will take the blame for this cause i hit y'all up with the gambit yesterday

but now you can see they keep saying it to reduce your ability to do shit

This post.

[Dandelion Wine]

Moving Backwards

{Deacon, LLD}
{Fire}
{Pooky, Midway, Spiffeh}
{A50}

Where the heck Peta belongs, is essentially what's eating me alive here.

The other thing eating at me, is if peta is scum, would he be able to coach Midway past Bork's looking for meta tells?

[Dandelion Wine]

cmd shutdown -r /f

No, this is a good thing. Full reset on my mental processor.

[Dandelion Wine]

how nations fall

Hella fellow /r/neoliberal shill!

[Dandelion Wine]

how nations fall

Hella fellow /r/neoliberal shill!

did u read the book?

You're actually talking about "Why Nations Fail" yeah?

[Dandelion Wine]

Yes

My father in law has a copy, I've read a bit of it over there but have not really completed it. That said, it's kind of a meme on the neoliberal subreddit and it's on my to-do list to finish this year.

[Dandelion Wine]

hydra discussion or pt discussio

i literally have not fucking posted in the hood i think in over a day
i've made probably 50 posts here in that time

I reserve the right to talk to my hydra partner as much as i fucking want lol. I'm not using it as a crutch and the constant insinuation that we're being cryptic in the here and now despite us having a fucking billion posts here is just not based in any kind of reality and i'm not having it

-b

think of peta as a politician

that's his talking point

it's what's winning him shit

he will keep hammering you and ffery and cabd and ceph with it

and i will take the blame for this cause i hit y'all up with the gambit yesterday

but now you can see they keep saying it to reduce your ability to do shit

This post.

So, what I meant here is that Peta gets to keep sayign things that discredit our reads and make us look worse and when we hammer back with the work you two did in the neighbourhoods, you guys get hit with the "lul more ineffective and cryptic neighbour shit" which permiated the thread as a culture and shuts it down.

Essentially, he's a politician who doesn't need to actually address your policy if he can just smear you and deflect the rest as a result.

and that's been his thing. Lightly calling all 3 of you me and deacon scum while still keeping his neutrality to look more "townie".

Focusing on posts that are designed to look good and contemplative over effective and pushing anything.

Have you noticed Peta hasn't DONE anything? he's mitch in the senate

and anytime someone hits him, it's defended agaisnt with these statements that frustrate you so much

I mean, look at how he did the mason stuff with me, right?

it looked super townie for him and shut me down and if i wasn't a stubborn bitch about shit, it probably would have gotten blown over wrt his claim, right?

he keeps saying "we can't trust the setup spec" to prime the thread but he has recently done setup spec himself. Why? because it's not "we can't trust setup spec" it's "We can't trust setup spec that puts me in a bad spot".

Peta is bobbing and weaving like a politician and playing us like fiddles while doing it.

he's impressive and competent, and you should give him that benefit of the doutb when you gut says town

cause he knows how to look town, but his actions stink to high hell

Thanks. I'm gonna ruminate on this take while I subject myself to the day three ISO re-read I promised myself.

Do you think anyone else in THIS timeline is doing that? (Obviously, skitter is doing that in the no-longer-crumpets zone)

[Dandelion Wine]

Oh, one additional question. Who all is the "our" in "Peta gets to keep sayign things that discredit our reads "?

[Dandelion Wine]

Thanks.

As to my other question, I take it that's a "no"?

[Dandelion Wine]

Pulling major posts that stood out (re: LLD's assertations) on first glance from the day three ISO one way or the other here for easy collective viewing.

Spoiler: Setup Spec is Bad

UNVOTE: LLD

lol forward timeline is prob screwed

not sure i have an unvote i want other than this

glad gamma died because thinking rolestopper/bg was an extremely unlikely pair was going to dominate my thinking but i guess now we can stop doin bad setup spec arguments

Pisskop was eliminated day 6!

He was a

Forwards Tenet Operative/Inverted Rolestopper!

Night 5 will end shortly.

This is a protective role, as is Gamma who also flipped. I don't believe Bell's claim.

i wouldn't jump to conclusions - both those roles only functioned in the inverted timestream. at least don't kill him off setup spec

personally i think setting her loose on annie would be funny, and at this point i'm just playing for entertainment

I'm still going to iso people including Annie,

did Pissko claim before they were killed?

no but ftr i would have done it anyway because lol setup spec

you're not gonna get me killed on bad setup spec

pisskop didn't start on this side

but even my idiot brain understands typical setup design is going to avoid having multiple protectives that could potentially loop with each other to become unkillable

that's basic stuff so clearly it doesn't apply here

but clearly this is out the window

and i think it's because a significant chunk of town power is gated in a timestream where it doesn't work and might not get turnstiled, might get turnstiled late, or might just die upon getting turnstiled

so any assumptions about balance are likely to be significantly faulty

but hey sure is a good avenue for scum to go "this seems like too much town power" (but somehow sb9 is excluded from that equation)

oh my brain doesn't work i guess the rolestop doesn't save the bg protect

what the fuck ever i don't care not voting off setup spec

did a quick skim through of this game that just ended:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85074

Peta/Mwb/Ico scum team stomped the town and their play looks nothing like what's going on in this game

Though it could be that Peta and Mwb just had like 0 respect for the town in the game so they both decided to straight up open wolf their way thru the entire game balls out.

in that game the town kind of ripped its own face off so we didn't have to do much and the best thing was to sit back and let it happen. the cumulative number of times any member of the scumteam was voted that game was 2.

but yes, midwaybear is very nervous as scum and it comes through in his posts, several times he expressed to me in the PT he didn't know what to say, and here he just does not have the feeling of nervousness in his posting at all.

one of the things we

did

do in that game (well, mainly iconeum i think) was abuse setup spec to get the town to axe its own PRs (including our dear moderator) by stepping in and going "gee i dunno guys do you really think the setup would have two investigatives, this seems too strong" and get people to ignore logic of how, say, a certain player would never claim the way they did as scum and was towntelling very hard, and instead go "but balance!" when it turns out most people just don't have a good idea of how setups are constructed

and so that's why people trying to come in and get someone voted purely off setup spec is so scummy to me

like he saw what shelly claimed and assumed he was a cc, and tried to nudge toward that without outright ccing because this setup is a big troll

i was shelly's receiver, cabd picked up on it yesterday at some point. annie's confusion about their role is exactly how i thought mine would work although i never got it confirmed obviously. i don't think they take that approach as scum

Yeah, I suppose that’s fair about Spiffeh peta.

Assuming we use the one in four logic from our set id assume that set follows a similar rule and I expect there’s a fourth in the either side set as well

i think the one in four logic is very arbitrary and dont care for it

Spoiler: Contains Setup Spec

fwiw - there are so many failure points on these gated investigatives that i absolutely believe there would be some redundancy built in to the setup

i was jokingly calling myself a mason b/c i'm the other half of the dead town follower

it seems self evident to me that not both members of the pair have to be town
and in fact is likely there is at least one combo here that isn't all town

-b

having an investigative handing results to scum would be bastard and leave town severely handicapped from what we know

i spent the night looking at old cakez theme games and thinking we're fucked but it made me think about things



fire do you have a role that works in the other timestream or not

Both sides STARTED with a protective. There seems to be. Protective/blocker that can swap over to the other side- we have two claims on the table that fit this grouping from inverter.

pisskop's flip + whatever spiffeh is started in the forward side and only work in inverted

thats 2 and 2 on both sides. hard for my mind to not see the parallels even though it seems super fucky but 2 PRs per thread that need to be inverted to start seems less weird than just 1? i feel as though that lessens the impact

theres this kind of paralelism between all the claimed and known prs between all the threads, claimed protective starting in both threads, two roles that need to be stiled, the receiver pairs

im not saying they all have to be town because i don't know that and it'd be weird (plus all the pr claims are scummy) but things really do seem to mirror each other


and the intent with the turnstiles is obviously to create a logjam where not everyone can get to the other thread to do something useful and that weakens the expected effect of any potential power role

and most of the PRs basically outed themselves day 1 asking to be turnstiled, which is bizarre to me but id almost expect some multiplicity by design because of the whole logjam thing. i would think scum would theoretically have roles that only work on the other side too to give them some incentive to cross over but i dont know. it would still seem to be unconventional to me to ask to be turnstiled right away as scum just to block town and get locked into a pr claim but clearly not everyone thinks like me in that regard

but even saying that, if we split the two threads into pairs

two ivestigatives + a protective + two other gated PRs of some stripe

is not really outrageously far out of line with what seems to be standard balance for mini games in 2020? obv that is complicated by there being other roles and it'd be super dumb if scum just werent trying to get turnstiled but i cant stop thinking about how things seem to mirror

i also have to wonder if you honestly think the setup would contain two amnesiac investigative pairs with half of each being scum making both effectively worthless and the majority of other PRs being timestream gated such that there is a strong possibility town has absolutely 0 useful night actions on night 1 aside from a bodyguard, maybe

because if you stop to think about it for a single second that's extremely implausible

[Dandelion Wine]

one of the things we did do in that game (well, mainly iconeum i think) was abuse setup spec to get the town to axe its own PRs (including our dear moderator) by stepping in and going "gee i dunno guys do you really think the setup would have two investigatives, this seems too strong" and get people to ignore logic of how, say, a certain player would never claim the way they did as scum and was towntelling very hard, and instead go "but balance!" when it turns out most people just don't have a good idea of how setups are constructed

and so that's why people trying to come in and get someone voted purely off setup spec is so scummy to me

This post in particular stood out to me as the one that sort of shines brightest with the "Setup spec bad" argument.

[Dandelion Wine]

LLD's points aren't just smoke here...

Like It's 3AM and I'm reading the Peta ISO in full yet again and it's like.... He makes occasional town posts. A few GREAT posts, even.

But then there's plenty of what LLD pointed out and now that I'm cognizant of it, like, I can SEE her points being woven in.

I think ffery's heart might be broken after all.

[Dandelion Wine]

</3

Am I crazy?

[Dandelion Wine]

I've got about 30 minutes in the tank.... not sure it'll be tonight.

[Dandelion Wine]

p sure bork's asleep

I mean, 3 AM.

[Dandelion Wine]

LLD, is there a specific reason you think forwards can/will send somebody to derail this?

Sorry if you did already say, feel free to quote or give a post number if so.

[Dandelion Wine]

LLD, is there a specific reason you think forwards can/will send somebody to derail this?

Sorry if you did already say, feel free to quote or give a post number if so.

I mean they literally said they would.

They have actively discussed sending someone back to force us to do Pooky/A50 today.

So just to confirm your intentions, you think that we should NOT have forwards use the turnstile today, period?

[Dandelion Wine]

What is the like, STRENGTH of this conviction on peta here? Is it based entirely on the factors you've already outlined, or is there anything else driving this?

[Dandelion Wine]

Okay. I'm about to sleep, gonna ruminate on everything. Nearly 4AM.

[Dandelion Wine]

Well, fuck.

[Dandelion Wine]

I'm uh, sorry?

[Dandelion Wine]

Are you doing the same sort of "bet my life" read that I had on cakez? more? less?

Geh, it's killing me inside here.

[Dandelion Wine]

Caught up, I don't really have the spoons for this game today. LLD is town and has conviction, i can roll with that, cabd is so deep in dithering at me he can barely function and I have no idea why I'm awake
UNVOTE: peta
UNVOTE: a50
-ceph