Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[2ndchosen1]

Apologies Kazyan, I read that grievances in unwnds and assumed you would immediately realize I was trying to talk about the issue of trying to pass the day quickly by just booting hayker and moving on.
I more was thinking on evaluation of the initial attempt to rush the wagon. Would scum have immediately jumped on that wagon to pass the day quickly and prevent analysis? That seems credible to me. Which would lead me to believe there's at least one in this bunch. GE, NPOM, Kazyan, LM. I would like to hear your thoughts on this Kazyan.

how confident are you on NPOM / agar? his is the main slot i'm flip flopping on, all the others are at least approaching one direction or the other. i feel as though NPOM was immediately and obviously way more anxious in another scum game that i looked at (although that was his only one), and as the kids say i have ~reasons~ to think he might be town, but even still there's a residual doubt.

i think i agree with you more than i disagree with you so far, although maybe not to a huge degree. both kazyan and lunar are really the only ones on the town side for me, with gamma and elements being scumreads.

could you elaborate on which posts suggest NPOM was anxious?

[Kazyan]

It's a fair suspicion to look at those four votes and think there's scum in there, but I don't think it holds water. Remember, our theory for why that's scummy is that the mafia is trying to end the town's discussion early, but...

1) It's a bad trade. They'd be cutting off the town's discussion and the cost of forcing one of their own members into elimination, and this trade is even worse at the beginning when it wasn't totally clear that Hayker was a 90%-likely elimination. Why irreversibly inch towards losing the game, just to get the town to shut up for a second? If Hayker is ejected, the game has to go through another day/night cycle for scum to have a chance at winning anyway.
2) It's not guaranteed that a longer discussion period benefits the town instead of scum. It's more chances for arguments to go the town's way, but also more chances for them to go scum's way. The town could talk itself into eliminating someone that they become convinced is a second mafia member, but who isn't--or just get so stuck with split wagons yelling at Lunar or whoever that there's a no-elimination, and Hayker lives another day.

[Datisi]

Vote count 2.07

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-01-13 23:45:00).

execution

Hayker [4]:

Gamma Emerald, unwnd, Lunar Martian, Elements

Not voting [6]:

northsidegal, Papa Zito, 2ndchosen1,

Dannflor

, Hayker, Kazyan

mod notes

~ yeet

flavour

[unwnd]

Gamma I odn't really feel like reiterating my points. Just talk to me at this level and see what comes of it

That will always matter more to me instead of trying to condemn someone with my words

[unwnd]

Side-note: I do love condemning people with my words actually that's a lie

But I also would prefer not to condemn someone on misunderstanding so yeah

[Elements]

Can someone tell my why they think LM is scum again?

[Lunar Martian]

Can someone tell my why they think LM is scum again?

Who do you think is Mafia and why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I odn't really feel like reiterating my points. Just talk to me at this level and see what comes of it

That will always matter more to me instead of trying to condemn someone with my words

Side-note: I do love condemning people with my words actually that's a lie

But I also would prefer not to condemn someone on misunderstanding so yeah

Well I’m trying to get you to actually explain your read without force-feeding you any lines

[Gamma Emerald]

Or at least the specific meta point
Anyway, you think I’m scum but you’re also fine being on Hayker with me. Who do you think the third is, and what’s the scum agenda iyo?

[Lunar Martian]

I feel like as Town you'd not think it was strange that unwnd is voting Hayker with you. Hayker is basically caught scum.

[unwnd]

you to actually explain your read without force-feeding you any lines

..Is this typically the notion you would take as town? I never took you as someone who plays his cards close to his chest

[Dannflor]

Can someone tell my why they think LM is scum again?

Elements, can you explain why this was what you was on your mind coming into the thread?

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve given a vague meta read with little substance. I’m not gonna give you any ammo. It’s both seeing how solid your read is and not volunteering information I don’t have to

[unwnd]

I definitely wouldn't consider it vague and I'm not sure what giving me ammo means frankly

It's all a couple of pages back if you ever wanting to read it, but simply reiterating it didn't seem serviceable to you (or me)

[Dannflor]

Gamma, where are your reads at?

[unwnd]

I'll try to condense my thoughts without completely borrowing from things already said

Why are you being so hesitant in your words Gamma. Even now it feels like you're waiting for me to take the first gesture. Which is funny to me, because I already did that not even two or three pages back. If you don't want to read it: Fine. It just seems like you took everything I said and went 'well it's just meta' when that isn't even close to the truth. I'd scumread your behavior independently of (you), but it just so happens that (you) are in this game, and I would expect a lot more.

This is all the meta I would have on (you).

This is a bit vague so I'll be more direct. I don't think your efforts thus far are scumhunting. I think that you're just biding your time with the thread, and to me it looks like you're struggling to even fake content at this point. As for why I feel that way? It's your attitude and the way you've seemingly brought yourself to conclusions. A lot of your responses to the thread read to me like someone who doesn't wanna put the effort in as scum, so to compensate they try not to make disputable claims. Everything you've said and done isn't out the realm of town, but I don't see where it's taking you and I'm starting to think it's fake for that reason alone.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

[Lunar Martian]

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

You're currently in too many games? It's just temporary then? Why doesn't this game deserve your attention?

[Kazyan]

I think it's worth noting that Gamma withdrew some on Day 1, so this behavior on Day 2 isn't necessarily in response to the flips or to Hayker.

[unwnd]

I'm being reserved because I'm that way across p much all my games since I can't put in the exact effort I want to put in for all of them, so I'm pulling my punches in all of them. I'll put in a concerted effort to sort the entire game if I get a good chance, but I don't want to push myself into focusing on X game when I have others I feel might deserve my time more.

Ah try not to join so many games then? I can slightly empathize but I can't do it for the sake of this thread.

This game is becoming a bit flat which leaves me slightly uneasy

[Datisi]

Prodding Hayker.

[Elements]

Who do you think is Mafia and why?

Hayker - The claim
NPOM/unwnd - lack of any interaction with Hayker D1
Gamma or Papa for the third from poe

Elements, can you explain why this was what you was on your mind coming into the thread?

I was trying to think of something to say and that was the best I could come up with other than "Kazyan is town"

[Datisi]

Prodding Papa Zito.

[Datisi]

Prodding northsidegal.

[Papa Zito]

Prodding Papa Zito.

I was letting the thread breathe and hoping for more northsidegal posts :/


I did an iso dive on 2ndchosen1 and came away feeling he(?) is very town.