TENET - Game Over

[skitter30]

hello i have been inverted
i probably want to kill bell

[skitter30]

skitter30
Annie Edison (notscience/The Bulge)
Dunnstral unwnd
superbowl9
Hench Princesses (Happy Unbirthday Boon/anon)
Bell
Brian Skies
Gypyx

more precisely this is where i'm at:
annie - ugh i'm willing to admit i am maybe wrong here but i'm still rethinking
dunn - town
sb9 - still probably town
hp - now that i know the main they're town and it's literally the strongest read i have here
bell - i'm leaning towards scum
brian - honestly idk probably scum
gypyx - still probably out of scumrange but kinda underwhelmed

[skitter30]

yeah i'm kinda coming around to that conclusion too
i'm gonna head to sleep soon and as a remidner i'm vla fridays so probably won't be around more than cursorily till saturday night if people wanna talk to me

[skitter30]

i was just a scumparter with him in silent star 3.
he couldn't really enter the game
never caught up, never really gave reads
quickly became a universal scumread
which made it even harder for him to catch up or post or figure out what to say, and so on

i never got the 'awkward ahhhhhhhhhhh idk what to post' vibes from him here. he's chill, carefree, stream-of-conscious
and that game literally ended while this one has been ongoing so i don't believe he changed that much in that timeframe

[skitter30]

do i not get to vote for purple room or is there a mistake in the vc

?
if the former he's probably hammered

pedit ah thanks

[skitter30]

honestly sending over someone who we strongly believe is town to replace my vote is probably a good idea

[skitter30]

fire is probably town
pooky might be too

i don't think it's 5
what did scum know at start of game again?

[skitter30]

well i don't think both spiffeh and pooky are scum so for there to be 5 we'd need to have at minimum started with 4 and turned over one
and before i can gauge how likely that is, i need to be reminded what scum knew at the time when they were deciding how to distribute themselves

[skitter30]

right forgot abt a50 when i wrote that
eh i'm not sure i agree with the notion that 2 were turnstiled over

i'm p sure that at least one of {superbowl/spiffeh} are scum and got a nice pr activated

This literally makes no sense given publicly stated info we have that scum placed themselves pregame. And the fact that you're using this as a reason to scum read people is like uhhhhhhhhh?

what do you think fo this post btw?

[skitter30]

me or ceph?

[skitter30]

ok so it struck me as a potential slip at the time, but i kinda forgot abt it until a few minutes ago, and let me explain why:

we know that scum got to choose which thread we got to start in. the underlying assumption in ceph's post, if i'm understanding it right, is that scum are able to choose which thread they can start in, and

would thus start in the thread that would enable their role to work

(i.e. if i'm scum and a forward watcher i want to start in forwards) and would distribute themselves accordingly. he's using this argument to counteract my argument that scum!spiffeh or scum!sb9 wouldn't bother trying to turnstile because they'd already be in the apropriate thread.

however it's not clear when scum got their roles in relation to choosing the distribution, and i just asked sircakez that and was informed he would not answer that question

[skitter30]

whatever slip may have been the wrong word but you get what i'm saying?

[skitter30]

i don't remember why i was townreading you so honestly no idea

[skitter30]

no irony if i was scum i would self-hammer here because this game has been draining and the last few pages especially have been tough

<3 i very much vibe and i admire you fighting the losing fight

[skitter30]

they're abt to vote out peta so like, yeah, kinda a wash

[skitter30]

because i strongly townread at least 3 other people here
and odn't have a reason to townread you

like it's not a hard read but given that we're assuming there's scum here and i'm p darn confident who like 3 of them aren't, there isn't that much room for scum to be in

[skitter30]

also brian would you be so kind as to either give me a quick readslist or to direct me to your most recent one?
i'm like kinda up to date but i don't know what everyon'es reads are

pedit honestly i would do it tbh

[skitter30]

maybe not you, but someone town from here should

[skitter30]

VOTE: Petapan
LLD can yell at morning!fire
ill be back and can revote this in 24 hours. But midwaybear is right we got time.

we don't have time cause they'll send some idiot and


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

fuck this game i'm honestly done

i mean this kinda gives credence to what hp is saying

also sorry for the tunnel earlier hp <3

[skitter30]

Sending my love to the other side.

[skitter30]

i didn't make that post.
-ceph

Welp sorry i thought i was talking to u in that convo

But if cabd wrote i think it's even worse ...

[skitter30]

skitter you were mostly talking to me, you'll note that is one of very few posts not signed by me today. ive been signing consistently.
-ceph

Right, since i was largely talking to u i just assumed that it was you and you missed signing one by mistake

Either way if cabd write it i take more issue than i did originally

What if scum have roles that are thread agnostic?
Thinking aloud

[skitter30]

Ll + midway + pooky + spiffeh i think
I'm not sure if we're all claimed here

And again i think dandelion's role is scum incarnate in this setup

[skitter30]

<3 to all of y'all over there

[skitter30]

I'm listening to lld and dandelion wine and deacon

And also, I think they look bad in the other thread

can you elaborate a bit please?

[skitter30]

you have both brian and bell as scum with the heavy shitfight they got themselves into? please enlighten me on that one

i mean not inherently scum together? i don't think i implied or indicated that i thought they were together

[skitter30]

cool, happy to hear you're willing to take a step back on bell

well yeah there's scum outside of bowl for sure, but we have bowl as scum, why give him a pass on that one because we know there's more out of him (or there might not even be)

and like idk, you're really seeing bowl's progession on annie as possibly coming from town?

gypyx can you also give me a quick tldr of your reads?

[skitter30]

Lol no it's not. Didnt bother picking it apart last night cuz at the time i wasnt in the thread but i will tomorrow night

[skitter30]

Ah never mind then! I will probably still pick it apart tho!

[skitter30]

borkffery i just need to say that your approach to reading me / your approach to me this game literally makes no sense to me
like at alll

[skitter30]

like for a few weeks now ...

[skitter30]

i'm not sure it particularly makes you scum but i am utterly baffled

[skitter30]

I'll give ya a summary Skitter.

I think either the scum team sent you over here because they were sick of failing to be able to yeet you

and they felt like a TVT Bell/Skitter Cage match would be amazing.
We've both spent a significant portion of our time this game trying to keep our heads above water.
Part of what gives me pause is that, like me, you never really stopped trying to solve.
Though some of your positions in the other thread sucked imo. But I could say the same for almost every player in this game to one extent or another.
it would explain how fast you got thrown over here too.
I also, actually agree that from my understanding of LLD she is very much the kill scum first ask questions later type and yeeting you over is actually weird fmpov. However, I haven't read the other thread closely enough to say for certain that she hadn't spent a significant amount of time trying to kill you in that thread before giving up and hoping for better luck here.

Points against this explanation is that Gyphx hadn't taken a firm stance even the most recent post of his only implies that he thinks I'm town, if there was an indication that Dunnstrall planned to yeet you over me, I missed it. Brian's scum reading me and Sb9 is relatively on the fence. FMPOV it very much felt like they sent you over here to kill me, than the other way around and I had no idea that the cards were set up like that. I also don't know if LLD wouldn't know that, have missed it or I missed it that she hadn't or didnt recognize the game state over here being one in which I probably die here if they get yeeted.

There's the watcher/ 2 protectives/1 pseudo protective, I don't really think role blocker is pseudo protective or intended to be tbh. That does point to scum you. I also felt that it was strange that it didn't give YOU pause when I claimed doctor, but like I said maybe I missed it.

If I have to I guess I could read all your posts over there and make a better case(which in this case would merely be a more nuanced one and not necessarily more definitive).
When/where did you change your mind on my slot btw? I missed the heel turn when you changed course did you justify it better than your TR of me?

or you're just scum.

honestly at this point i think the bolded, i just put up too much of a fight (when i want to, at least)
i still don't understand why lld ships me over here 'because they can lim her' when there was no particular indication that that was particularly likely to happen. she was p damn close to having the votes over there and i'm not sure there's nearly as much over here

for you, i'm kinda like: i don't have nearly as much reason to townread you as i do for many, many other people in this thread, and since this game is teeming with scum if i don't have a good reason to townread you i'm of the opinion there's a decent chance you're just scum

there's only like 8 people in this thread and half of them i would be quite shocked if they were scum so i'm running out of places to look.
i'm not convinced you're the lim today but you're in the pool, if that makes sense

also, bell, what happens r.e. setup wise upon my townflip?

i'm also gonna go back to the larger case at some point cuz i want to pick it apart more

[skitter30]

I'm also fine with you taking your time and poking around. Even though you're immediately planting roots and engaging with the players you need for their votes rather than just scum hunting while taking an impersonal tone with me in comparison. This can make it harder to dislodge you whether scum or town, but it probably benefits us in the long run to let you and just put in the extra work to dislodge you after creating associations as either alignment. I doubt I live/don't get immediately killed next dp for the loss, but it might help me point the finger at a scum before the loss so I'm okay with that.

Maybe you'll have better luck rooting out the scum over here if you're town than I have. Do your best.

yes i like this idea. and while i do have reads over here i would appreciate a bit to just like ~get my bearings~ before i need to lay a vote down

[skitter30]

Oh.

It was a serious request btw.
Just anything you think would help me read you correctly.

bell i would give good money on hp being town here. they're significantly out of their scumrange and the fact that it's been a month and the game is shitty that they're still trying to solve is ++++++ town and i think scum!him would have run out of steam a while back given the game

[skitter30]

borkffery i just need to say that your approach to reading me / your approach to me this game literally makes no sense to me

i utterly don't know what to say to this and my layers are peeling away and revealing a defeated husk

so go ahead and lay on me why you think that if nothing else so i can adjust my approach in the future because i feel like the more i try the more turned around i get and the more people rail against my approach

-b

i can't really give super much detail because of [redacted]

but just like: what have you/dandelion been right abt this game? i don't mean this pejoratively or like trying to throw shade.
i mean very practically, what indicators do you have that makes you think the way you're approaching this game in a correct fashion? like right now do you think you're on the right track? if so, what makes you think that?

i can point to several different things that show me my view of the gamestate has been p on point for quite a while now. i know we're wrong, and i can tell you where we're wrong. i don't know exactly what the 'right' thing to do is rn, but i can point to several things that i think would muck things abt more than they currently are. and, well, very little that i've been said about the gamestate over the past few days has been

wrong

, so i don't have much reason to think i'm on the wrong track

right now

either. i feel like a lot of what you (collectively) have been trying to do have been off, so i'm struggling to understand why i should give much credence to your reads or understanding of what's going on rn

and like once again i've calmed down from a few days ago. i'm not trying to say this in an attacking / perjorative fashion. i just mean very practically if i have reason to believe i'm more on track than you are, i'm struggling to see why i should listen to you very much, and i want to try to get us on the same page because i think your slot is very probably town so it's better for us all to be on the same page than for us to be fighting with each other or for us to be pushing competing worldviews because we can't both be right

so i want to try to resolve the differences and figure out where we're drifting apart and talk it through and try to get things back on track, cuz i think if i can get you (i.e. borkffery) to agree with me, things probably get a bit better
(that is probably egocentric of me but whatever)

i'm not sure it particularly makes you scum but i am utterly baffled

at this point i'm not sure if i'm more worried about the scum saying we're worthless or the town saying we're worthless

i'm willing to engage w/ the latter post game on what went wrong

-b

i wasn't even trying to say the latter with my earlier post (i.e. the one from like five min ago). i just, like, don't get how you're approachign this at all

[skitter30]

like again, i'm past saying this perjoratively, i just want to try to get everyone that i think is town on the same page to try to fix this mess

[skitter30]

@fferybork

ok, not to toot my own horn too much, but things that i've said before they've happened that ended up provably being right:

- fl was town
- titus was going to flip town
- there was going to be max 1 scum in titus/ss/pk
- the whole plan to rid the forwards thread of scum wasn't going to work and was going to be a wild goose chase and waste of time

all of these ended up being true.
so, to me, it looks my understanding of what's going on is fairly on point, and it's gotten a bit frustrating where i keep saying what's happening, it happens, nobody listens, we're in a shitshow a dayphase later, and i can't divert people off of doing silly things. whereas i'm watching you (collectively) push for things that i don't agree with, and they're not particularly noticeably helping town.

and, like, let's assume i'm kinda halfway decent at this game. maybe i can't assume this pl inherently agrees with that assumption cuz a lot of you haven't actually played with me. but it's a p well established fact among my generation of players that i'm one of the strongest active players of both alignments, and of the site overall rn. again, not to toot my own horn too much, but i'm trying to say that i'm actually halfway decent at this and i usually know what i'm talking abt.

i don't do it by necessarily having individually correct reads. what i do is read gamestates. i have a p good sense for what scum are doing at a particular moment, and how they're positioning themselves. i can usually get a decent shortlist of where scum are by looking at key moments in the game, figuring out how scum would be positioned, and then looking at people who had that positioning. that's not to say they're *all* scum, so much as scum is overwhelmingly in that group of players.

to me rn, the key things are (there are other key things, esp. in the forwards thread, but i'm not as familiar with them and can't analyze them as well):

1. the ss flip
2. the stranglehold your slot / dandelion has had on this game (i know you don't like hearing this but from my pov this is part of what's making this game so complicated)
3. the fact that n1 in inverted noraa's replaced slot died.

(also probalby the annie turnstile but it's far enough back that i don't have as good of a sense of what happened there anymore. going back post annie flip would help a lot).

i'll start with the third because it's the easiest (maybe i should have written these in some other order but whateaver)

scum simply don't make that kill if they don't feel super, super, super comfortable in the gamestate. they basically don't want the replacement to be a fresh pair of eyes who'll be like 'wait lol player X is just scum why aren't we voting them out' . so the third point indicates that scum are people who were comfortable with how the game was going, and didn't want anybody new to rock the boat too much. that means that there's a deepwolf / scum in the general townreads

i still strongly think that scum grab the ss misflip yesterday if they could: they're in a good spot. why not take the misflip when they can, and hasten endgame right along? like yes they can wait a day and have him be the next day's flip. sure, whatever. but they're in a good place. it's clear from the n1 kill they're feeling a bit cocky. nothing much happened day2 to much change their minds, and they can get the flip that day, so why not? that's why i keep going after lld - i think that scum would have tried to get it if they could

and for the fact that dandelion/you have been controlling a lot of the game - at least from my pov, it feels like a lot has gone down in the hoods that has been hidden (on purpose or not) from everyone else, and it has directed quite a lot of how later days has gone. in particular the spiffeh/sb9 turnstile. it still doesn't make sense to me honestly why there were so many machinations for that to have happened, or what benefit we particularly got out of it. to me, if cabd was town, i feel like we'd have seen more pro-town reads, conclusions, or mechanical outputs than we actually have. i'm aware that this is some level of bop, but he's been directing a lot of this game, and i just still don't see the +town purpose to a lot of what he's doing. maybe i'm just being blind and so i odn't see it. but like maybe you can help me here, by explaining how he's been approaching the game in a +town fashion? like what was he doing to concretely help solve the game in those hoods?

[skitter30]

I'm mildly incredulous that you don't have good reasons available to town read me after 950 posts, I find it more likely you just never iso'd me because we're in different threads.
I certainly haven't paid as much attention to the other thread as I would have liked.

I'm struggling to identify what you picked apart in my narrative jumble.

#6566: Unneeded I was going through a partial reread.

Could you clarify what you mean by 'what happens' set up wise on your town flip?

I'm tired.
I'm mildly confused at your meaning in regards to LLD sending you over here when you were more in danger over in the other thread from your pov.
If they sent you over here to be eliminated, but you feel the game state was such that your elimination was more likely in the first thread. But the scum team threw you out of that thread because they couldn't eliminate you.
But the reads over here were such that there was no guarantee of that while activating your ability.

Use your words bell!
Your position and comments are not clear and appear contradictory in regards to your own self-assessment of vulnerability in the two threads.

bell i wasn't here for the last month. i don't have as strong reads on a lot of this game as i do on my thread. like, no, i haven't read your iso, and i probably wont', because iso's this game are a monstrosity that i have little patience to deal with. i think i can probalby be more helpful interacting with people in the present

i don't fully understand what you're trying to say in the latter half of the post. can you try to rephrase? like i don't follow what yout hink is contradictory exactly

[skitter30]

Will grant that there was a lot of weird friction in getting to that point and a lot of people were driving the "remove scum" plan but I agree that it was a pipe dream.

ok we can call this another 'key moment' and look for scum in that group as well. i would bet quite a lot that there's scum in these people as well, it's a great way to muddle with things and waste time and if we're all focusing on that we're not focusing on finding them.

i was using those more to illustrate that i think i've been p on point for most of the game. the later parts of the post is where i think we need to concentrate on now

[skitter30]

well, no, i don't necessarily think that. like i can see that being a possibility for why i got yeeted here but i don't know if that was the only or main reason
honestly i'm not entirely sure why it happened.

i do think i was more likely to get yeeted there than here tho, yes

for people i'm townreading here:
- hp is significantly out of their scumrange and i don't think i can vote them this game like ever
- gypyx is probalby out of their scumrange as well, but not quite as strongly
- unwnd was town, and i'm not as solid on dunn but i feel p good on uwnd and it's enough that i wouldn't vote that slot today

and i'm town
so that's half the thread and so if there's scum i gotta look at the other people
admittedly i don't have super strong reads on everyone else, but that's what i'm working on rn

[skitter30]

oh and superbowl is also probalby town
honestly because of the way he softed/treated the pr claims early-mid day1

[skitter30]

and for the fact that dandelion/you have been controlling a lot of the game - at least from my pov, it feels like a lot has gone down in the hoods that has been hidden (on purpose or not) from everyone else, and it has directed quite a lot of how later days has gone. in particular the spiffeh/sb9 turnstile. it still doesn't make sense to me honestly why there were so many machinations for that to have happened, or what benefit we particularly got out of it. to me, if cabd was town, i feel like we'd have seen more pro-town reads, conclusions, or mechanical outputs than we actually have. i'm aware that this is some level of bop, but he's been directing a lot of this game, and i just still don't see the +town purpose to a lot of what he's doing. maybe i'm just being blind and so i odn't see it. but like maybe you can help me here, by explaining how he's been approaching the game in a +town fashion? like what was he doing to concretely help solve the game in those hoods?

agree that this is worth talking about and involves some collection on my part.

-b

that would be helpful, ty. if there's a strong reason for them to be town that i can't see or am not seeing it would be helpful for that to be elaborated upon

i think that their role is stupidly +scum as well (like literally i have a very, very, very hard time imagining that their role is town)
and like, quite frankly, the game is a shitshow, adn them being scum would explain quite a lot of that. i don't know how to explain this thought better than how i tried like last week and everything but this is the sort of thing i tend to have a very good sense for and a lot of the ~weirdness~ of this game is explained by cabd scum

like if you want me to try to go through this again i can, because it's important ot me that your slot recognizes the possiblity of cabd-scum. i'm not sure how much better i'll do this time around, but i feel like i need to try to get this thought across

[skitter30]

You've acknowledged that you haven't read me in depth. So any comparison between me and other players seems relatively meh. I don't know which posts you've read and which you haven't,
or which posts you've read in depth that gripped your attention and which haven't.

But your statement underneath all that or rather the foundation of your reads is skewed because you're reading the game haphazardly as available.
It lacks authority, even though you took an authoritative town when comparing me to other players in terms of townieness.

that is fair. but i feel like the reasons i ahve for townreading the people i have are fairly strong, which means i'll probably hit scum in the people i'm not. i do need to refine the reads in the 'outside of townreads' group, but like i said, i'm actively working on it

like i do think that the townreads are something that are fairly accurate/foundational. the not-townreads no, i agree with you that they're not

pedit if that's directed at me i don't know much abt doctor who

[skitter30]

authoritative tone*

Ah man, I just figured out how to say this more concisely, it seems there's pretense behind your positioning.

i'm not sure i know what you mean
and ok if you think i shouldn't have townreads on those people, like, why not?

[skitter30]

2. i mean in this in the nicest possible way, but no, he doesn't have much of a large scumrange as far as i'm aware. i explained this in this thread a bit earlier
3. yes, that's exactly what i mean. that unwnd was probably town, adn that independantly i dont' townread dunn as much but like his pred was so overall it's enough for rn

[skitter30]

ok but i don't think i really have experience with you, but i do have a lot of irsthand experience with the others

[skitter30]

i mean you're using the fact that there's a lot of town!bell games out there, but like i'm basing those reads off of people i've actually played with for the most part
i'm not as good with cold meta as real/live meta, and i'm not abt to start reading a bunch of your past games for this

[skitter30]

@bork
And another one. I'm p sure you lot just flipped peta and i would give >90% chance he's gonna flip town

[skitter30]

Caught up, I don't really have the spoons for this game today. LLD is town and has conviction, i can roll with that, cabd is so deep in dithering at me he can barely function and I have no idea why I'm awake
UNVOTE: peta
UNVOTE: a50
-ceph

ty friend

peta should flip scum so we gucci. Only sad thing is other thread only has 48 hours now but

This isn't hammer, one more unvote is needed by my count

VOTE: Skitter30

It's time to do this. Bell and Skitter are never town-town here, Skitter's role is more suspect here.

Hello, why. Is this entirely setup spec, or is there actually more to it

And can we review why me/bell is a dichotomy again, cuz i'm not actually sure its the case

[skitter30]

And why am i more suspect over bell again?

[skitter30]

you have both brian and bell as scum with the heavy shitfight they got themselves into? please enlighten me on that one

i mean not inherently scum together? i don't think i implied or indicated that i thought they were together

well, what do you think is the wrong read then?

I dont know yet. I only just got here like three days ago, i'm working on it

I'm inclined to think bell is town tho

[skitter30]

@bork
And another one. I'm p sure you lot just flipped peta and i would give >90% chance he's gonna flip town

Its like i dont even get what lld or cabd are seeing. Lld if town is stupidly tunneled and i dont know why cabd isnt seeing that peta's been ridiculously town

I also think cabd-town like gives some kind of response to the fact that i'm still calling him scum here, and he's just ignored it

[skitter30]

LLD's points aren't just smoke here...

Like It's 3AM and I'm reading the Peta ISO in full yet again and it's like.... He makes occasional town posts. A few GREAT posts, even.

But then there's plenty of what LLD pointed out and now that I'm cognizant of it, like, I can SEE her points being woven in.

I think ffery's heart might be broken after all.

Like this is nonsense, its like cabd trying to give himself cover for voting peta cuz like the 'peta-town' posts are townie and i think he should see that and it should outweigh whatever lld is talking abt. Some level of bop, yes, but i dont think he actually legitimitely comes to this conclusion as town / his slot ends up voting peta off of this as town

Also i think i finally realized why i got sent over - it wasnt abt me, per se, it was simply abt removing a town vote from that thread who was never gonna vote with the cabd/lld thing

They could have just as easily sent peta over and voted me out over there cept there was already some level of momentum to turnstile me over peta or a50

I think hp is right and that thread is kinda lost.

And cabd can ignore me calling him scum because there simply arent enough townvotes over there to functionally make a difference

I'm going to have such a fucking big post morten post explaining what exactly went wrong here after the game ends, which at this rate will be exactly tomorrow so yay ig

[skitter30]

And cabd can ignore me calling him scum because there simply arent enough townvotes over there to functionally make a difference

And ffery being pocketed doesnt help either, of course

[skitter30]

Like this is nonsense, its like cabd trying to give himself cover for voting peta cuz like the 'peta-town' posts are townie and i think he should see that and it should outweigh whatever lld is talking abt. Some level of bop, yes, but i dont think he actually legitimitely comes to this conclusion as town / his slot ends up voting peta off of this as town

Like cabd's post that i quoted is the post i write as scum when i'm allowing myself to be talked into something that i dont / cant legitimately find scummy but i'm p damn confident i can get away with the vote with few if any consequences

And, quite simply, cabd should know better

[skitter30]

Please yeet Skitter. That flailing in the other thread is so obvious.

I'm not flailing, i'm showing your scummy agenda and why its scummy for cabd to go along with it

[skitter30]

Please yeet Skitter. That flailing in the other thread is so obvious.

I'm not flailing, i'm showing your scummy agenda and why its scummy for cabd to go along with it

Yeah that's why you pulled over Cabd's response to my logic and not

1) my initial logic
2) Cabd's extensive research into Peta's ISO regarding my logic to confirm its efficacy and veracity.

You're definitely doing the honest upright thing where you take a real honest take about the alignments of players and not, you know, forcing a false narrative to try and survive.

Folks, I don't know how much more clear this can be. Follow my directions today. Peta is dead, now yeet Skitter and we're in good fuckin shape.

1. Your initial logic is empty
2. There's still a chance that you're actually town and this wrong and scum-cabd is just piggybacking off of you to get this vote. His research didnt prove that peta is town or explain how he actually came to that conclusion, it just gave him cover to vote along with you. I dont think town-cabd legitimately iso'd peta in good faith and came to the conclusion he did there. You're also ignoring the fact that i acknowledged his research in order to fit your narrative

3. If you think i'm scum with peta and sit here poking you and cabd abt being wrong *after you got my partner* just like lol. Like you're either not thinking critically abt this or you're scum. Like i'm not awful as scum, what on earth do you think scum-me-partnered-with-peta is getting out of the posts i'm making rn m.

[skitter30]

I'm not hedging. There's at least one scum in lld/cabd, and i wouldnt be surprised if both are.

And if cabd is scum ffery is town-pocketed who's enabling him, and i'm hoping that bork can knock some sense into her

[skitter30]

u 2 are awake too early on a sunday.

@Peta Sorry again for eliminating you. I hope to join u in dead thread soon. I will get on spiffeh case tomorrow? I am probably not dying tonight.

No. If the game isnt just a wash go for dandelion
Going after spiffeh probably wont help anything

And you absolutely should not have given lld your vote there

[skitter30]

skitter u seem to be taking much harder stances in the other thread than u were here.

With distance comes clarity

[skitter30]

although i probably woulnd't have listened to u.

i actually sort of think ur just grandstanding at this point. u seem like ur in a bad mood. or maybe im reading into it.

I mean the former is perhaps why i didnt try

I'm not particularly in a bad mood, was just kinda disappointed to wake up and see the peta thing ... i think we just lost with that and i was *just* starting to make headway with bork and maybe get things back on track and i'm p sure with that flip its just a wash

I probably shouldnt care anymore but i do apparently

[skitter30]

at this point each and everytime someone has moved over from one thread to other has had a complete personality change though.
I am starting to think the turnstile has some voodoo effects on the players minds.

Or maybe the threads are cursed.

Inverted is cursed, yeah
Its a lot easier to actually post coherent thoughts here and not get distracted by whatever massive fight is brewing over there cuz i'm not actually in it

I also think that what i'm saying here is a fairly clear continuation to what i was doing there, but whatever

[skitter30]

I think i'm at two votes, and it is not at all clear to me why dunn thinks i should be limmed today

[skitter30]

dunn you're failing to answer the question fo *why* you want to do that

i also think you are/were overestimating the inclicnation of this thread to lim me

[skitter30]

y tho

[skitter30]

i'm gonna retierate where i am:

- dandelion is scum. they have done very, very, very little that is pro-town this game, and at some point you gotta bop the dude. i believe that if he made a good-faith effort to iso peta, he would not have come out of there with a vote on him, as peta was one of the towniest players alive, and i dont' think town-cabd misses that. that makes me think that he did not, in fact, iso peta in good faith. his role is ltierally the prototypical scum role for this setup,not sure why that hasn't gotten more attention, but it is. he just isn't doing townie things and it's been 3 phases now. and jsut like ... nothing

- borkffery is town but i think that ffery is hopelessly pocketed. she doesn't like that i'm saying that, and it's causing her to snap-scumread me in retaliation, but i'm p sure this is what's going on here. bork it's gonna be 7:6 tomorrow if i get voted out here and literally the single best thing you can do to give town a fighting chance is to knock ffery out of it. if i do get voted out you will see that everything i'm saying is in earnest. cabd's day3 just does not come from town, try to make her see that.

- hp. ridiculously out of his scumrange. he is never scum here. he would have given up and lost motivation like two dayphses ago as scum here, and yet he just keeps chugging along and trying to solve despite this game being a massive shitshow and he just doesn't as scum, so he's town.

- lld. i'm p sure she's scum with cabd's slot. she was pushing on me/peta/a50, and if i get voted out here you'll see that she was wrong on at least two of them. i'm not confident on a50 but peta's gonna flip town, and i'm gonna flip town. teh fact that the game got toxic enough that multiple people just chose to cede their votes to her instead of playing themselves is incredibly frustrating. both she and cabd were pushing a narrataive that she was the nk last night and i would be literally shocked if that were the case. i only see scum being that tonedeaf wrt the gamestate if they have a narrative to push - it 'provides credence' to the notion that lld is town if 'she was saved from the nk there' but there is a like <1% chance that she's actually the scum nk there last night, and i'm baffled that either town-cabd or town-lld think that in earnest. i also think that scum were involved in flipping ss yesterday, and she is a very, very, very large reason for why that happened, so she also gets scumpoints. she's also hyper hyper hyper aware of how many votes it takes to do things in a way that is incongruent with how much attention she seems to have been paying otwards the game, but makes sense as scum in a scum-infected timestream who knows she only needs a couple of town votes to push her agenda through

those are my super super strong reads, the more minor ones:
- gypyx - still think probalby (?) out of his scumrange. wouldn't vote him today

- bell - honestly probably town? i think me -> bell has a decent chance of ending the game. i'm saying that i'm attempting to forewarn y'all not to just snapvote him tomorrow off of my townflip because i'm not 100% convinced he's scum on play and if he's town it's gonna be lylo and we just lose. voting town!him for 'well he's a cc to the flipped watcher' would just be the capstone to this incredibly frustrating game and, like, i wouldn't be surprised if y'all do that but i hope my townflip knocks some sense into everyone that voting for people for vague mechanical reasons is, and has not been, helpful

- dunn - eh honestly i'm not sure. unwnd was probably town but dunn has not been., he probably isn't scum with cabd? like idk why he neighborizes his partner in that universe. unless annie is right and the two halves of the scumteam can't communicate with each other. gun to head i'd say town but he's on the wrong track and is also putting too much weight into claims and stuff

- pooky - the fl stuff wasn't, like, good, but i'm not sure it makes him scum either. it made him public enemy number one and the fact that he never really got wagoned after that is a bit eh. but his annoyance with the game makes a lot of sense as town, and he's not my top pick for scum

- brian - honestly idk. i townread him at one point but i don't remember why. i think there's gotta be scum in titus/bell/brian and on play bell is significantly townier than brian is. i probably just vote him here tbh

- superbowl - he basically softed to me very, very early on day1 (like prior to the annie turnstile), and mutually understood that i was softing back, and his interactions with me there i think come from town. he also had that very very early day1 interaction with lld and it read to me as tvs at the time, and superbowl is significantly townier than her, so that supports my scum-lld read as well. wouldn't vote him today

- a50 - honestly at this point i understand the scumreads and would vote him over there

- annie - i'm not sure anymore and i think i'd need to work on reassessing him but that's unlikely to happen today i imagine. i'll just go with gun-to-head town but this is a very weak read and i wouldn't like bet the game on it. titus and bell votes day2 were p bad tho, just noting. actually now that i remember the titus trajectory i wanna devolve this read because it was p darn bad.

- fire - probably the way he approached me is townie, esp. the fact that if he was scum he would have taken the chance to vote on me when lld was just pushing pretty hard there. i'm not positive scum had the votes without hs vote,and he had ample trajectory that would have allowed or enabled him to do so. the fact that he was hesitant to do so at a point where that's probably anti-scumwincon just points to town for me i think

- spiffeh - i still think there's scum in spiffeh/sb9 who got activated via turnstiling via the purple room; otherwise teh machinations to make that a thing doesn't make sense to me. i do not independantly townread him. his peta scumread does not make sense to me. the fact that he was a fairly big proponent of 'turnstile all scum out of the forward thread' early on is suspicious to me, as is the fact that he went 'lol whoops this was a bad idea' significantly *after* that should have been apparent. don't like the fact that he voted on titus yesterday either

- midway - honestly no idea, but the fact taht at this point there hasn't been a serious wagon on him all game is an indicator that he's scum because he should be flipbait as town and he's not being interacted with that way

[skitter30]

i think me -> bell has a decent chance of ending the game. i'm saying that i'm attempting to forewarn y'all not to just snapvote him tomorrow off of my townflip because i'm not 100% convinced he's scum on play and if he's town it's gonna be lylo and we just lose. voting town!him for 'well he's a cc to the flipped watcher' would just be the capstone to this incredibly frustrating game and, like, i wouldn't be surprised if y'all do that but i hope my townflip knocks some sense into everyone that voting for people for vague mechanical reasons is, and has not been, helpful

@annie i would like you to keep this in mind

VOTE: brian

i do not inherently scumread you per se, but in this timeline given what i know and the information i have i think this is probably my best bet for scum

[skitter30]

i'm at e-2 i'm p sure, and yes i'm aware, but i think gypyx is town and probably superbowl as well, and i'm not voting myself.
i can switch to annie if that makes you feel better tho, but i'm not super confident he flips scum.

[skitter30]

unless annie is right and the two halves of the scumteam can't communicate with each other.

Considering I added Deacon to the hood and me and Dandelion Wine clearly weren't "scum communicating with each other" this ones a wash

that's my point

[skitter30]

not particularly gonna fight this, i'm kinda done. just gonna say that there's scum on this as i don't think taht any of the people currently voting me actually scumread me, including dunn, who is the biggest proponent and has declined mutliple times now to explain why beyond 'mechanics claims bell and skitter can't be town together'

[skitter30]

i think me -> bell has a decent chance of ending the game. i'm saying that i'm attempting to forewarn y'all not to just snapvote him tomorrow off of my townflip because i'm not 100% convinced he's scum on play and if he's town it's gonna be lylo and we just lose. voting town!him for 'well he's a cc to the flipped watcher' would just be the capstone to this incredibly frustrating game and, like, i wouldn't be surprised if y'all do that but i hope my townflip knocks some sense into everyone that voting for people for vague mechanical reasons is, and has not been, helpful

esp since it's a 26p game and we know exactly none of what scum's prs are
cabd has, once again, been particularly egregious in this arena

[skitter30]

i won't vote gyx and i won't vote superbowl and i won't vote hp and i won't vote dunn (although his current push on me is quite bad)
i really don't want to vote bell either so

like if it litearlly got to a tie between me and bell at 4-4 i guess i'd vote him but like i'm not convinced he's flipping scum and i don't want to

so to me i'm voting in brian and annie and slight preference for brian but i don't particularly care which
VOTE: annie

(save the whole 'she's being survivalistic', idc)

[skitter30]

You're supposed to think that scum has a strongman, by the way

dunn

why. am. i. scum.?

and yes if bell is town there's a strongamn. either bell town + strongman or bell is scum.
the former world doesn't particularly perturb me

[skitter30]

Am I mistaken when I read that,
Cabd trusted Bell on Shellyc.
Cabd Trusted Brian on Titus.
Cabd Trusted LLD on Peta

right. now let's take a step back: should cabd be this wrong on this many people, esp. in a way where he can abdicate responsiblity on all of these reads? ('i was trusting bell on shellyc, it's not my fault!' etc)

[skitter30]

ehhhhhh it actually being one neibhborhood with those actions makes dunn-scum more likely, not less so

[skitter30]

in a scum-cabd world, of course

[skitter30]

i tried that last game when we were partners. i think he's out of his range and i'm struggling to find enough strong-ish townreads that i don't particularly think dropping this one is a good idea or helpful

[skitter30]

helps cabd keep the ffery pocket

you're still avoiding answering why i'm scum, just noting for the fifth time

[skitter30]

i tried that last game when we were partners. i think he's out of his range and i'm struggling to find enough strong-ish townreads that i don't particularly think dropping this one is a good idea or helpful

You also can't find any strong-ish or worthwhile scumreads so I don't see why you can't just drop this townread.

because i don't think he's scum. i have strong scumreads, just not here. i'm not going to make up reads to make you happy, and i'm not going to do it to save myself either.

[skitter30]

i mean i'm working on it, i only got here like 3irl days ago and there's 250 pages of content with people i haven't personally interacted with really.
i don't think it's flimsy reasoning. i think eh's just out of his range. that game was concurrent with that one and i think his like literal entrance on p1-p2 is out of his range; he couldn't make those posts in the other game.
why exactly do you think he's scum?

Subject: 5 yaD - TENET

ok a lot of this is gonna be abt me, but that's what i initialy formed the read off of so eh. but here we go, spoiler wall:

Spoiler:

Brian town. We’re syncing pretty well.

the timing of this was p suspect, as i mentioned at the time - it came literally minutes after brian announced a townread on annie. this, to me, looked(s) like buddying brian; if annie is scum i dont' think brian is

Skitter you understand Brian started the buddying between our slots before me lol

But I pinged bulge

(i remember checking the timing upon this post as well, and iirc brian literally mentioned them like twice before this in a non-ai fashion, so this was also like ... not true)

~

skitter are you expecting to be turnstiled first?

you're putting energy into the other thread as if you expect to be spending some time there sooner rather than later.

i still hate this line of questioning, and in retrospect, it looks like fishing. it's implying that i'm scummy for wanting to be turnstiled, but the reasoning for *why* that's a scummy desire is not explained. i later called these posts random shade, because the tone is negative, but he's utterly failing to explain *why* it's scummy of me for wanting this

continuing on that theme: 385, which i utterly hate, and could not get the bulge to elaborate upon, and that's when i started tunneling. he's once again objecting to me having more reads over there than here, but fails to explain why that's an issue or scummy. the last line i particularly hate: 'remove all that from your iso and it's all mechtalk'. or, in other words, he's basically saying: 'if we remove all of your content you have no content, and i take issue with you not having any content', which makes ... exactly no sense? obviously if you remove my reads i won't have any content left, but he's trying to negate most of the content i had at the time and then complaining i don't have any. i have a really, really hard time seeing that as a real thought, or as anything but shade, and despite trying to get clarification i was dodged multiple times there.

this is where i starting making a whole big thing abt annie; i believe the bulge wrote these posts and i actively tried over the next day or so (i don't remember the exact timeline) to get him to followup on this, but he ignored/avoided me multiple times (i'm not gonna quote proof for this but you are free to verify this for yourself by control-f'ing 'the bulge' in my iso)

~

and here is my original case on them, as the wagon was rising, for reference:

Also I am going through your ISO and I can't really figure out what you're actually scumreading annie for

@skitter

oh this i'm pretty sure i said:
-> i'm p sure their observation last night abt me having more reads in the other thread was throwaway shade than anything else, and given that i can't really get an elaboration on tha,t until i do i'm assumign that's what it is. it doesn't feel like a real thought that actually lead to a scumread, although they were *acting* like it should be a reason to scumread me even though as best as i can tell they haven't actually made a connection between 'more reads onpeople in the other thread' and 'scumread', nor have they explained why my doing that is more egregious than ... literally anybody else who's done that. i'm not gonna drop it till they elaborate because it felt more like shade than anything else

-> buddying brian (already explained this one)

-> and just a lot of post are pinging me all around

-> they're also acting like they have more townreads than they actually do, feels like they're trying to project confidence and an air of gravitas (this one is new, don't think i elaborated on this one yet )

examples of the last point: 874, 683, 670

iirc he had like three people townreading him at this point ...

~

to elaborate on the last point in the above post: consistently as his wagon was rising, he kept trying to shade the people pushing it the strongest (me (who i don't think he actually ever articulated a scumread on beyond 'my push on his wagon was terrible' and norra (who flipped town)). he just kept loudly and loudly complaining that his wagon was awful, but there wasn't really any solving for *who the scum were pushing the wagon* again, besides for me (who i think we mostly think is town now?) and noraa (flipped town), who were incidentally also the loudest two people wanting him dead at the time. it's stupidly survivalistic

he also kept trying to project town and make himself look like a much, much more universal townread than he actually was at the time.

~
aside he kept saying he wanted to be turnstiled so that he could purple room with deacon n2 and that kinda fizzled out and nothing much came of it ...
(and from the perspective of: town is trying to clear the forwards thread of scum, scum!annie trying to get over makes a lot of sense ...)

related:

Subject: TENET - Day 2

Yes we had my entire team send me over so I could be a mafia goon on this side instead, you got me.

and quite a lot of his content is abt actualizng this plan (i.e. utilizing the turnstile), as opposed to just liming scum (which he isn't giving much thought to at all). and like after the a50 turnstile his content is just ... very meh

~
whooo other timeline (man iso-ing people is a pain ...)
(and tbf i spend less time concentrating over there as i have my own massive game to work on here, so like my grasp of the context around specific posts over there is less strong)


Subject: TENET - Day 2

Okay Nacho.

Who does the other side need to elim then.

Subject: TENET - Day 2

@ffery- she’s town, and I’m a piece of Shit.

I’ll figure out where to go from here.

just dropping noraa scum upon imperium coming out as ic and defending her is eehhhhhhhhh kinda icky

~

progression on shelly wasn't great - he was defendign her for a while and then hopped on as she kept digging her own hole deeper. not impossible to come from town but i didn't really like it

~

Subject: TENET - Day 2

They think Pooky went over and hard shoved flavor as a counterwagon to skitter rn

i also called this out at the time: this, as a narrative, doesn't actually work because the timeline was completely off - if pooky wanted to come over to like save me (which i probably wouldn't let happen, anyways), he would have done it the day before (irl) than he actually did, when i was at e-1, not the next day, when i was at e-5 and most of pressure had dissipated

like three different slots started saying this after he started saying that

~

Subject: TENET - Day 2

Dunn and Titus are town. You can remove them from your pool.

Over there take Cabd and Ffery town to the bank. Skitters claim is sketchy, I don’t like Pooky suddenly engaging over there when he did nothing over here. Peta is town. Superb I think is town (but off a cliff). I should have more but I’m watching tenet rn so I’m not spending too much effort

Subject: TENET - Day 2

Let’s get this turnstile knocked out guys.

I’m currently at-

Won’t touch-
Titus
Dunn
Brian
Gypyx

Hesitate to-
Spiffeh
Bell

Meh-
Muffin
A50
Hench

Tiers aren’t in order

just noting because i'm repeatedly seeing a *very* strong townread on titus, and i think he ends up on her at eod

Subject: TENET - Day 2

VOTE: titus

For the time being

and he did! with no progression either!

~

i was gonna say that i disliked his bell progression around the claim thing but i think it was two different heads talking so eh

ok you get max one of those per dayphase because that took a nice long while
obviously my vibes for things that happened here are a lot stronger

this is my annie scumcase, from eod yesterday. it's slightly mitigated by the fact that he's converging to a similar worldview as me but like these are p hefty reasons for him to be scum imo

[skitter30]

Right now yes I do think peta was scum

y tho
while we're at it, y am i scum tho

like these don't seem like real positions to have to me, esp.the peta one, because he was literally my strongest townread

[skitter30]

i don't see anything pointing to me being wrong on gypyx tho
like why am i wrong? why is your read better than mine? sell me on it, maybe i'm missing something super obvious

[skitter30]

I need a wake up call.

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

no,that's what i've been saying since it happened

[skitter30]

y tho

It doesn't matter

yes, it really, really does

[skitter30]

ok well i'm not flipped and there's loads of involvement from yourself so ....

[skitter30]

ok let's note once again dunn either will not or cannot explain why he wants me dead today

[skitter30]

eh this is bad. i changed my mind on dunn
VOTE: dunn

[skitter30]

Well, ask him why he decided to trust LLD and how he came to the conclusion that Petapan was more likely scum or not based. Ask him how much he considered Petapan through the lens of smoke filled as a comparison and why he weighed it less?

i literally just did and he told me it was a distraction and refused to answer. like 10 posts ago

[skitter30]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

[skitter30]

brian i'm just abt to step away to do some irl stuff but i am going to come back to that

[skitter30]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

[skitter30]

i think that dunn/cabd/lld are half the scumteam and that we've been looking in the wrong places this whole time

i also want to highlight that dunn is setting up a me -> bell lylo upon my townflip so please, please, please dont vote bell just because 'there can't be a town watcher and a town doctor', i'd give good odds that just loses the game right there. and if *one* townie falls for that we just lose. like my expectations are not too high and i'd give better than decent odds that that just happens, but like, i feel like i need to try

(of course ignore this if i flip scum but i know i won't and i see what tomorrow is gonna be upon my townflip so i just need to say this as many times as i can to hope i get the message across)

dunn has spent a very long time crafting {exactly one of skitter/bell is scum}, but i'm not sure this is a true dichotomy, and i'm not sure why he's landing on the me-scum > bell-scum world (other than the fact that it makes lylo for scum!him tomorrow easy, of course)

[skitter30]

I would say that, of the players in this thread, I feel like everyone else has consistently given flashes of town- or town-like-motivation.

I don't really get that with Gyx.

I feel like he's just been doing things, but not really in a town-motivated sort of way.
Like him asking to get neighborized because he feels like he can solve more there when he can just solve here, and he hasn't really been doing much in that regard while he has been here, doesn't give me the best impression of him. I also feel like most of his contributions are reliant on setup spec, which is very meh to me.
I still don't agree with Nacho regarding the fake-dayvig. Yes, he did pull back after Noraa reacted, but he didn't offer anything in the way of analysis until Nacho prodded him about it. And before Nacho engaged him, I don't think he was really engaging in meaningful conversation before that, so I disagree with the assessment that he has been comfortable in this thread (or at least not been uncomfortable).
I still think they were either excited or feigning excitement when Annie brought up the Split PT thing and think he was looking to have her run away with it before I made it apparent that I wasn't fond of Annie inserting that into the thread.
I know HP said they thought it may have been a 'townslip', but I'm actually not a fan of the 'Macho IC comment'. I feel like it's probable they were trying to fake a dumbtell in the event Bell is town here.

i'm gonna focus on this one because i think it's a bit more pressing and i don't think the annie wagon is gonna be functionally relevant in the next 24 hours and i don't think atm i have the energy for both

the thing with gypyx is that i think he can be read entirely on tone: does he feel forced/awkward/like he hates posting? scum. if not, town. his posting here is chillaxed, stream-of-conscious-y, and there just isn't this nervous/anxious energy that i think is indicative of his scumage. have you looked at any of his scumgames?

like here's his posting from the game i keep referencing: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84991&user_select[]=34123
he has a bit of content very early on. than just disappears for a 1000 posts at a time, and keeps promising content but never delivers. there's a bajillion posts trying to explain why he hasn't posted content and how he's so far behind and needs to catchup, starting from post #16 in his iso, and basically continuing to just before he got voted out. he has 50 posts *the entire game* - he was alive for iirc something like 100 pages. between like posts 16 and ~26 in his iso, there's like two weeks in real time in between and literally all of his posts are abt how he can't post. eventually eh's very, veyr close to getting voted out, he shows up again and posts some content. and then everything from post 35 and his iso on he's a treestump and has already been flipped. (complciated semi-bastard game.) the point is that he's flipped and so it doesn't count towards alignment anymore - once he doesn't need to look townie the pressure is off and he can post in a chilled/relaxed fashion again.

meanwhile *while this was happening* in the scum pt he keeps posting abt how sorry he is that he isn't posting or doing anything. iso in scum pt: viewtopic.php?p=12341678&user_select%5B ... #p12341678

he's posting here. he doesn't hate posting here, more importantly. he isn't being apologetic for not having reads. he's just having thoughts, and shares them as he has them. he was literally incapable of posting like that in a concurrent scumgame and i just can't imagine how he changes from that to this without flipping his alignment

like you write that he's doing things, but not in a town-motivated way. sure, i can agree with the second-half of that assessment. but i strongly, strongly think that the fact that he's doing anything at all is town-indicative for him. i can understand him wanting a smaller set of posts to interact with to solve in a hood, that doesn't bother me. i'm also p confident he runs that by partners as scum before suggesting it here, and he wouldn't do it without the go-ahead (and i have a hard time seeing him get the go-ahead given the machinations taht are going on wrt the purple room)

i'm p sure scum-him doesn't make a spontaneous fake dayvig either. he just doesn't have the range for it

like i guess my fundemental point is that while i agree with you that many of the things he's doing aren't great, i just don't think he actually *does* most of these as scum.

[skitter30]

gypyx, bell, brian, sb9, can i interst any of you in voting dunn?

i think his push on me here is fairly bad given taht it seems to be entirely based on setup spec - he seems to think he can get away with a push using just that as reasoning and won't or can't elaborate in any fashion

[skitter30]

(and sorry gypyx ... hope i wasn't too harsh there)

[skitter30]

like he has 249 posts here and i jsut don't think he posts that much as scum

[skitter30]

Bell from my pov dunn is making a fairly bad push that is entirely based on setup spec that he either cant or wont explain - its almost like he didnt really expext there to be much pushback and he literally doesn't have much of a reason for it beyond setup spec.

And since he's setup a dichotomy on me or you, he's gonna go to you next after i flip town

(I know you dont know i'm town etc, but from my piv this seems fairly obvious + you'll see it happening tomorrow)

I'll look at the quotes you pulled, one sec

And he's gonna say that when i first came i was townreading his slot and now i'm not. My response to dunn is: am i supposed to view your current push on me as town motivated? Like from my pov is this supposed to look like a good push?

[skitter30]

I'm telling you that Skitter is scum and is trying to convince you

Her read switch is on me and you can see it for yourself, she thought I was the towniest person in this thread back when I was defending her and pushing you, and even upon coming to this thread. But now that it's obvious that my read isn't changing she pivoted to an ultra wifom team which should seem super unlikely if you think about it (you guys are seriously underselling Deacon hydra's capabilities as town here)

She is fear mongering by saying that I vote her and then you and then oh no both town

I mean your probelm for making scummy looking pushes... you should have at least gone through the motions of pretending you actually had reasons before this

And i'm not fearmongering, you made it exceptionally clear that you think there's exactly one scum in me/bell. Are you really trying to say you wont turn to bell upon my townflip? (From your pov if i flip town.)

But lets go through the exercise of pretending i flip town - is bell next y/n?

[skitter30]

Also it's not an ultra wifom scumteam - bell independently got to abd and lld and you make sense with him and how the day went

[skitter30]

Bell i dont get it. Why is the shelly stuff townie?

[skitter30]

is bell next y/n?

No, I'd go into the inverse (a50, pooky) first

So why are you pushing me again?

Seriously. If the main reason as best as i can tell is that you think there's scum in me/bell, you dont follow through with bell after i flip town because ...

[skitter30]

is bell next y/n?

No, I'd go into the inverse (a50, pooky) first

So why are you pushing me again?

Seriously. If the main reason as best as i can tell is that you think there's scum in me/bell, you dont follow through with bell after i flip town because ...

Like this doesnt even make any sense

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter30

It's time to do this. Bell and Skitter are never town-town here, Skitter's role is more suspect here.

Dunn

You gotta realize that doesnt make sense, right?

[skitter30]

Bell he's using the fact that he thinks there's one scum in me/you to vote me, but wont commit to going to you upon my townflip

Do you see the problem with that? It undermines his whole reason for voting me

[skitter30]

Because it's extremely difficult to understand a scum motivation for pushing at someone who is going to flip town by A) Pushing harder on an already dead slot who was going to die likely regardless of whether he pointed it out. B) Noticed this claim discrepancy as scum, meaning as scum he was very cognizant of how to read another player, by correctly identifying she misnamed her role, and then went to check to make sure and then pushed her with question after question patiently until she was check mated for miswriting her role the first time she claimed.

It's just a really, really, really good series of posts that I have difficulty believing scum ever make given the context. Behind it.

I dont follow why any of this is +town: if he sees she messed up her role as scum why would he *not* push her for that there, esp. if she was already under pressure

He wants the misflip, no? Checkmating her helps with that.

[skitter30]

Like are you arguing that recognizing the fact that she messed up her role name is unlikely to come from scum? Because the aftermath of that doesnt make sense as a reason to townread him to me

[skitter30]

My point is that you're according him towncred for something that makes a lot of sense to do as scum

Like.i dont understand why you're townreading him for something that should be nai as best

And can we talk abt his whole reason for pushing me that doesnt actually seem like a real thought ...

[skitter30]

by correctly identifying she misnamed her role, and then went to check to make sure and then pushed her with question after question patiently until she was check mated for miswriting her role the first time she claimed.

Like this is the part that doesnt make sense - if he is scum why does he *not* do this

[skitter30]

It doesn't make sense for him to do that as scum. It's a ridiculously thoughtful approach.

Y tho

And again, can we talk abt the fact that he doesnt seem to have a reason to push me here ????

And is ignoring me pointing that out ????

And wont commit to flipping the other side of his 'never tvt' dichotomy because that alienates you in the moment rn when he needs you to listen to him ????

Like hello there's significant issues with this ...

[skitter30]

Oh look we finally got the logo

[skitter30]

Dunn cant want to vote me for being what he thinks is the scummier role in a not tvt pair and then *not* want to flip the other half of the pair upon my townflip at the same time

The two thoughts dont make sense together

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter30

It's time to do this. Bell and Skitter are never town-town here, Skitter's role is more suspect here.

Ok so we're saying this is a load of nonsense then?

[skitter30]

Bell, what do u do tomorrow? Do u at least agree with me that dunn actually has no reason for his push on me rn?

[skitter30]

* upon my townflip. Lets assume i'm talking abt that world

[skitter30]

Like i just want to make sure dunn's progression is very, very clear:

-> says me/bell cannot be tvt
-> refuses to give another reason for scumreading me outside of that
-> when i call him out on setting up a bell push upon my townflip, claims he wont push bell upon my townflip (thus invalidating his original reason for pushing me)

Utterly refuses to engage with me, gives bell a half-assed explanation that doesnt explain the contradiction, and refuses to acknowledge that there's a contradiction here

[skitter30]

No, i want you to go after dunn, cabd, *and* lld with a vengence

And when dunn tries to pull the 'but bell cant be a doctor with a flipped watcher' line you shut that down completely

[skitter30]

Like do you not see the problem with dunn here or ... ?

[skitter30]

Probably since this ends while i'm asleep, for tomorrow:

- hold lld to task for being wrong on both me and peta
- do not let dunn get away with pulling 'lol skitter was a town watcher so it's gotta be bell' after this eod
- get ffery unpocketed

[skitter30]

Also remember that it's lylo tomorrow so nobody snapvote

[skitter30]

Hmmmm?

[skitter30]

I'm pretty sure Dunn's Skitter read is being heavily influenced by Deacon/Dandelion.

I mean i'm p sure he's just scum, but ok

[skitter30]

we will get resolution on the bell/skitter

For like the sixth time, do *not* vote bell upon my townflip, and do not let dunn do it either given that's clearly what he's telegraphing he's going to do

[skitter30]

Any chance you'd vote dunn?

[skitter30]

Hp repped out and idk where they're voting
I'd vote annie over myself but i'm not confident he's flipping scum

Dunn is just scum, literally nothing he's done since i came here makes sense from a town perspective, and he's actively not engaging with me pointing that out

[skitter30]

We don't have all the roles on the other side.

Also it's not like i tried to get this to happen or anything

[skitter30]

Petas gonna flip town tho

I really, really, really want dunn

[skitter30]

Ok so they're functionally useless until/unless we get a replacement

[skitter30]

I would probably vote annie or gypyx but like neither are probably flipping scum so i dont think it will actually, like, help anything

Brian you really should rethink your gypyx read btw

[skitter30]

Can anyone, like, explain why dunn is off the table tho?

VOTE: gypyx probably my best bet but u lot need to rethink the reasons dunn is unshakeable town

(And dont go into the survivalistic stuff, i get it and dont care, as either alignment i dont want to be lynched)

[skitter30]

That is such a freaking awful reason and is the epitome of why i hate this game in a nutshell

He's scummy af and crickets

Pedit ffery is pocketed, cabd is nust scum

Pedit *that's* ehat you have to say. Lol

[skitter30]

I mean yes but nobody else will

[skitter30]

That is such a freaking awful reason and is the epitome of why i hate this game in a nutshell

He's scummy af and crickets

Pedit ffery is pocketed, cabd is nust scum

Pedit *that's* ehat you have to say. Lol

Bork this is literally what is wrong with this game

[skitter30]

So dunn, if I hammer skitter here and she flips green will you agree to be my loyal servant for tomorrrow?

No just lim him (and lld and cabd for screwing up the other thread), they're all scum

Literally nobody voting me thinks i'm scum. Just like lol

[skitter30]

I'm pretty sure Dunn's Skitter read is being heavily influenced by Deacon/Dandelion.

I can have my own reads

I mean if u had them, sure, but you demonstrably dont so like

Pedit yes, including dunn

[skitter30]

Like i just want to make sure dunn's progression is very, very clear:

-> says me/bell cannot be tvt
-> refuses to give another reason for scumreading me outside of that
-> when i call him out on setting up a bell push upon my townflip, claims he wont push bell upon my townflip (thus invalidating his original reason for pushing me)

Utterly refuses to engage with me, gives bell a half-assed explanation that doesnt explain the contradiction, and refuses to acknowledge that there's a contradiction here

Like this is dunn's progression, that he is fastidiously refusing to engage with, and literally nobody else has a problem with this

[skitter30]

Asking me to run through the wine club one by one is a little much dontcha think? But I can try my best

Plz do.
I'm assuming this is a wash but like try

I think borkffery is town with a hopelessly pocketed ffery tho

[skitter30]

What about my offer dunn? Small price to pay if you think she's scum no?

He knows i'm flipping town, is literally voting me cuz he thinks me and bell arent tvt but wont vote bell upon my townflip. Like lol

[skitter30]

Idk

[skitter30]

I'm kinda just super super annoyed at this point and am gonna go to sleep shortly.

Gonna be lylo tomorrow. I would concentrate on lld, cabd, and dunn, but it's a wash so this is functionally pointless

[skitter30]

Notice how he still is ignoring me lol
And he wont commit to any of these things cuz he knows i flip town

Like idk how bell / brian / annie still think he's town
Idk how to demonstrate it better at this point

[skitter30]

Dude he's just scum. He cant change his mind on me and is only engaging with you to try to get you to vote not-him

This is literally a pointless convo with him

[skitter30]

Anyways g'night. I'd wish you luck but y'all are screwed p badly, and i expect this to end tomorrow

Annie and Brian taking dunn off the table here is a p bad look

Superbowl i gave all my reads a few pages back, only thing that's changed is dunn is kinda scumclaiming rn

I'd bet good money on dunn/cabd/lld flipping two scum, if not three. Make sure lld pays for her nonsensical 'skitter and peta are both scum and if either of them flip town i'll self-vote tomorrow' thing cuz she's 0/2

[skitter30]

she's just acting like peta is town

He's not. peta and skitter are both scum. You'll see when somebody else inevitably comes to hammer skitter

Dude i've been saying peta is town for like a month. Lol

[skitter30]

Don't worry skitter your death will not be in vain (vein?)

Nah it's gonna be in vain cuz you lot are gonna vote bell tomorrow cuz 'he cant be town after skitter flipped town !!!1!!' And its gonna be like 7:6 so if exactly one townie falls for it you just lose

Just highlighting again that dunn was setting that up, maybe if i say it enuf it'll become toxic enuf that it wont happen, but i doubt it

I'd start with dunn -> cabd -> lld

But i predict you lot will vote town!bell and lose. But who knows, maybe you'll surprise me for once

[skitter30]

Okay if you're wrong can you at LEAST admit that superbowl, skitter, and HI-C associates are super cool and the wine club is lame??

You can be super-cool, skitter constantly demeaning deacon and calling them a town-beard and calling them pocketed/making town lose/unable to think for themselves is decidedly not cool regardless. HI-C club it depends on who that is

No, i technically think cabd is scum and has pocketed ffery, to clarify

And that you've used your role to facilitate that

Pedit i've been saying it for a week man

[skitter30]

for the last time, we're not voting bell tomorrow

Than why are you voting me? Lol
You dont have an answer for that

[skitter30]

Cuz lld made the thread toxic to the point that pooky and fire just gave votes to her to get it over with

She's betting on all 3 of me and peta and a50 being scum to the point that she said she was willing to self-vote the next day (ahem lylo) if any flipped town

Cabd sheeped for shitty reasons that i've called out multiple times

I think i was shipped over here to make it harder to stop scum-pushed lims from going through by removing a town vote, and who knows, maybe i'll get limmed here too

[skitter30]

for the last time, we're not voting bell tomorrow

Than why are you voting me? Lol
You dont have an answer for that

This is actually facts.... dunn?

Yes for the like twelfth time

His reason for voting me is that me and bell cant be tvt but he wont vote bell upon my townflip

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

Whatever you guys win

G'night

Just remember that dunn has literally scumclaimed to make this happen

[skitter30]

VOTE: dunn

Its utterly pointless, but sure. Just remember that he *literally scumclaimed* to push this through

(My expectations for you lot are super super low tho)

[skitter30]

G'luck. Y'all will need it.
Bork i will come back get that mea culpa in post

[skitter30]

This was a singularly unpleasant experience on abt 12 different levels

[skitter30]

Gypyx no offense but the hammer was bad enuf that i'd rethink the townread

Bell, would have been nice if u would have engaged with what i was saying abt dunn, i'm p sure you're wrongly townreading him

[skitter30]

I'm no sure if this is shook town skitter or shook scum skitter.

Guess we'll find out.

Is she hammered?

Also it's a culmination of how stupidly frustrating this has been for like a month, not necessarily abt the last day or whatever

[skitter30]

6879 is making me think town. Not sure if skitter twilight trolls or if she would think there is a motive at this point

Dunn, come on. You and i both know this isnt a real read or thought

[skitter30]

Also secretly hoping one of the 12 level is that she rolled scum this game.

Well you're outta luck there

[skitter30]

I won't be very surprised if I was just manipulated again though.

You were, you're townreading dunn for basically baseless reasons, to the point when he does something that is obviously scum motivated you couldnt even see it

I felt like i was pointing a neon flashing arrow on what looked to me like obvious scum (ahem dunn) but couldnt get anybody to like even engage with that reasoning, not even dunn himself

It was just epitome of everything that is wrong with this game

And again bell is town, *do not vote him out tomorrow*. My expectations are low enuf that you lot probably will, but ig we'll see

[skitter30]

I think, that you reversed too hard on me skitter.

Also there was nothing for me to reverse from. I wasnt particularly scumreading you to begin with, and you were p clearly town when i came over here

Felt like people were trying to have it both ways: my reads when i came over was bad, but i formed new reads too quickly. Obviously when i'm actually interacting with people here and not just reading haphazardly whenever i had a chance my reads are gonna change.

[skitter30]

But yes i'm more that slightly annoyed, if that wasnt obvious

[skitter30]

I know. At least keep it in mind tomorrow, k?

[skitter30]

Just be forewarned, i'm p sure you're gonna be the game-losing mislynch. I tried to divert that, but only so much i can do

[skitter30]

Just be forewarned, i'm p sure you're gonna be the game-losing mislynch. I tried to divert that, but only so much i can do

Probably since this ends while i'm asleep, for tomorrow:

- hold lld to task for being wrong on both me and peta
- do not let dunn get away with pulling 'lol skitter was a town watcher so it's gotta be bell' after this eod
- get ffery unpocketed

All three of these. None are gonna happen and they'll mislynch you in lylo, but who knows

[skitter30]

I mean that's not inherently what the problem is gonna be, but g'luck with that

[skitter30]

Sigh

That timing tho