Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[SirCakez]

I think you are misinterpreting what Cheet meant

[staypositivefriend]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone have a case against spring breeze? ive seen a lot of shade on that slot and i wanna dive into them because most of their posts have passed right by me

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.
Referring back to another one of my posts, I said that people on this site generally have a harder time reading logical players (or at least I felt like it was part of what was making you harder to read for me), and that was a part of where I was coming from in saying that, on top of you being a new player that nobody here knows. When people can't understand someone, that makes them a lot easier to eliminate. That's a large basis of where I was coming from in that post.

I also think that surface level engagement is pretty commonplace for someone who's inexperienced with site culture and getting to know a playerbase, (and also mafia, which was part of the point of me saying that) it doesn't really have anything to do with someone being shit at the game.

There aren't many players that I would actively call shit at the game.
If you're unsure of what I mean from a post just like poke me about it in the future. If I'm actively trying to be an asshole to you, it'll probably be a lot more obvious, I promise.

[SirCakez]

^can confirm

[Cheetory6]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

yeah.

UNVOTE:
god that really fucks with my gamestate assessment.

[MURDERSUNNY]

vote cake
I'll post a case if you do

[SirCakez]

y tho?

[Cheetory6]

cake can you vote yourself I think that should fulfill his requirements.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cakez

[SirCakez]

I'm not gonna beg u but I am very curious

[Cheetory6]

okay murder lets hear it

[Cheetory6]

I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.

Also, if it means anything, I'll try to scrub the term from my mafia vocab and I'm sorry for using it instead of expanding my thoughts because I do understand where you're coming from now.

[Zaiden]

Love the meme, but now I see why you could be scum based on that answer to Maria, but meh you're fun you can stay.

I don't see you as a noob by the way. My only piece of advice, and this is only for you:

Spoiler: Zaiden only

Stop playing League dude

It's a curse. Many of my friends play it so it's hard to get out. Because the highs are really high even when the lows are catastrophic. And those high highs do feel pretty good. And once I hit Gold IV I will probably leave it at that. To be fair, I am a noob at forum. My point of contention is that I'm not useless. I'm trying my best to contribute and maybe my best isn't enough but it's frustrating because I feel like I've been readily dismissed and made an easy target out of. I'm trying really hard but it feels like no one's acknowledging my efforts not to mention I'm somehow looking bad after everything I'm trying to do so I'm clearly doing something wrong. It was silly and conceited of me to think this would be similar to the Newbie Game when everyone's on a whole different level from that so I just have to try and up my efforts because I owe it to my friends for believing in me and the town.

Also I made that meme knowing that some people could try 'readin' deeply into the meaning behind my response/meme and try to pin down something on me. To be honest, I'd also been told by my team that MariaR’s push felt like it made sense from her perspective even if they don't get it (this was about 2 days ago) so +townpoints. And to be honest, I'm not sure if they are right because I certainly don't understand it and feel deeply suspicious about the push/their agenda. Clearly part of it is motivated by a dislike for the way I post - or is that just a convenient pretext to excuse having me eliminated when I eventually flip town? So engaging with Maria will help me figure that out - whether she's coming from a genuinely town angle or whether she sees me as this easy newbie to throw under the bus.

[MURDERSUNNY]

cake case in (expired on 2021-01-20 10:00:00)

[staypositivefriend]

iso'ing spring breeze:

viewtopic.php?p=12515738#p12515738 - this is nitpicky but this post strikes me as a little bit performative, in the sense that spring positions her push on cheetory as an "attempt to find out if other people felt the same way", but she made zero strides to discuss her read or her thought process - she just silently voted

viewtopic.php?p=12516004#p12516004 - spring characterizes cheetory and zaiden's votes as "the worst votes on her", and i mean, sure. it just bothers me that she makes a very declarative statement about the votes without using it as an opportunity to dive deeper and explain ~why~ the votes from those two could belie a scum intent

viewtopic.php?p=12519344#p12519344 - the response to cakez's scumread on her is kinda weird, in the sense that her reaction is more deflective and inquisitive. cakez pointed out that he saw "something" scummy in spring's opening posts, and instead of spring questioning him further about that line of reasoning, she simply says: "i can't engage with this because there's no legitimate reasons to scumread me right now". where did the inquisitiveness go?

viewtopic.php?p=12519377#p12519377 - the reasoning to tr MWB is pretty vague but i do kinda like the reconsideration of cheetory

viewtopic.php?p=12520694#p12520694 - spring characterizes noraa's catch-up posts as "genuine/good faith", which could be, but the reasoning here is so broad that it'd be p easy for any scum on autopilot to out a read like this

viewtopic.php?p=12520809#p12520809 - this is a soft defense of zaiden, but it contrasts awkwardly w/the fact that spring was voting zaiden when she made this post. if this is how zaiden plays as either alignment, then why is she still voting him? if she does scumread him, why even drop this defense?

viewtopic.php?p=12521289#p12521289 - i would like this post from spring IF the last couple of sentences didn't exist. she says she's reconsidering zaiden and it comes off as pretty authentic, but she immediately negates her own reconsideration by hedging on him and leaving her read on zaiden open-ended. bleh.

viewtopic.php?p=12523345#p12523345 - how did spring go from hedging on zaiden in her last post about him to townreading zaiden in this post? i don't understand the progression

viewtopic.php?p=12527742#p12527742 - the analysis here is deeper and more thoughtful than most of the analysis spring has outed so far. it's a decent look

viewtopic.php?p=12527815#p12527815 - i sorttt of like how spring handled this engagement with me about my read on maria? i could tell that she "wanted" to say but more decided to restrain herself, and i would expect scum to use that as an opportunity to try to bury me or make me look worse

viewtopic.php?p=12529820#p12529820 - spring continues the trend of using overly broad/generic language to substantiate her reads (ie: "noraa is being too genuine to be fake"), and that lack of specificity is something that has consistently pinged me throughout her ISO

conclusion:

broadly speaking, the biggest issue i have with spring is that her reads oftentimes feel so non-descript and vague that it's impossible for me to determine if they're coming from a town mindset. there are several moments where i imagine that spring!town would dig deeper & use certain posts as an opportunity to flesh out her reads, but she doesn't. a lot of her progressions feel very "safe" even if they maintain some level of internal consistency

i do think that spring has a tone that comes off as authentic and sincere (which is part of the reason i haven't looked into her until now), but there are several moments in her ISO that raised my eyebrows and made me feel concerned about her. i would downgrade her to null-leaning scum

[staypositivefriend]

also, i really like doing these types of ISOs on people. they help me flesh out my reads a lot more. if there's anyone specific that someone wants me to do an ISO on, HMU

[Pink Ball]

I don't think those were personal attacks dude

[Pink Ball]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

My only problem with this argument, which I agree, is that at the same time there was a wagon starting to build on Zaiden, so the frustration could come as scum being defeated, and his conflict with Cheet would've been just the icing of the cake

[Pink Ball]

does anyone have a case against spring breeze? ive seen a lot of shade on that slot and i wanna dive into them because most of their posts have passed right by me

I haven't seen any shade towards Spring Breeze, could you show me?

[staypositivefriend]

does anyone have a case against spring breeze? ive seen a lot of shade on that slot and i wanna dive into them because most of their posts have passed right by me

I haven't seen any shade towards Spring Breeze, could you show me?

i assume that's sarcasm

how did you feel about the iso i did on her? did any of my points resonate or align w/yours?

[MariaR]

You want me to tryhard for a post and take you down Zaiden? Really want me to start trying? Okay prep yourself.

[staypositivefriend]

genuinely dont feel like zaiden would take those comments so personally if he was playing from a scum mindset. i suppose that isnt something i can say definitively since i don't "know" him, but i do think that town tend to be more sensitive to feeling like their worth/utility to the game is being questioned

My only problem with this argument, which I agree, is that at the same time there was a wagon starting to build on Zaiden, so the frustration could come as scum being defeated, and his conflict with Cheet would've been just the icing of the cake

that is a legitimate point, but i will say that if zaiden's frustration was stemming from the wagon on him, it isn't reflected much at all in the stuff he's chosen to focus on. zaiden is focusing less on being read incorrectly and more about being treated unfairly, and the focus on the "treatment" he's getting is something that strikes me as town indicative

[Zaiden]

I don't really think I would infuse anyway near as much negative connotation with the phrase walking miselim but I can get disliking me having said that.
Referring back to another one of my posts, I said that people on this site generally have a harder time reading logical players (or at least I felt like it was part of what was making you harder to read for me), and that was a part of where I was coming from in saying that, on top of you being a new player that nobody here knows. When people can't understand someone, that makes them a lot easier to eliminate. That's a large basis of where I was coming from in that post.

I also think that surface level engagement is pretty commonplace for someone who's inexperienced with site culture and getting to know a playerbase, (and also mafia, which was part of the point of me saying that) it doesn't really have anything to do with someone being shit at the game.

There aren't many players that I would actively call shit at the game.
If you're unsure of what I mean from a post just like poke me about it in the future. If I'm actively trying to be an asshole to you, it'll probably be a lot more obvious, I promise.

I guess it can be really hard to convey tone online because the way you post is generally snarky so I played that back in my head with a snarky tone. I can also understand where you come from about an unknown person being a sensible choice to eliminate because you don't know them/don't know their meta because this happens in real life social deduction too. However, I've come at it twice from the other perspective. Being the new and unknown person who's scared of better players taking advantage of them and throwing them under the bus. It's hard to trust others. Though when I was an exec at my uni's Mafia Soc (those were the days with Hectic) I was scum and brutally betrayed the new freshers who placed their complete trust in me. That was quite funny.

But from those types of experiences I know all too well how easy it is to frame the new person, have them suspected then killed off - in which case where would that take people's reads if that new player flipped town? They will accept there were many legitimate reasons for removing that person and it would be difficult to sift the ulterior motives from the genuine believers. And also differentiating people who clearly know I'm good because they're scum aligning themselves away from the miselim from people who genuinely thought I was good because they read me as town. Although I've got a good sense for who's tried to approach me from an angle of bad faith, I think my demise would still be a pretty bad outcome.

I really appreciate the considerations you've shown in your responses. And as I said, I apologise for lashing out and making you feel terrible because from the general reactions it was a misunderstanding on my own end and you didn't mean it.

[Zaiden]

You want me to tryhard for a post and take you down Zaiden? Really want me to start trying? Okay prep yourself.