I have good news for you all which is that unlike my predecessor in this slot I am unarguably a fairly standard read, possibly even an ez read. (Brief note: Super is a great player but the way Koba represented her meta is.... sigh... I can go into it if needed but Super is not some unreadable player. She is a great scum player cuz it's true she's good at surviving the rope, but, like any player, when she's a villager she plays like a villager and when she's a wolf she plays like a wolf, it's just that simple. Both times I played town to her scum I've called her out and cased her.)
Some more details about me. I've been playing forum mafia for just over 1 year now, and mafia in general for a bit longer: I played chat mafia on EM for awhile before I played my first forum game there, and after that I switched over to forum entirely cuz the longform format just suits me better. I've only played three scumgames ever and in my most recent one that just finished I got absolutely dumpstered. I think my townranges and scumranges genuinely do not overlap atm, like I really think and can probably argue with evidence that even my worst town game ever is still "townier" than my towniest scum game.
Another important thing: my schedule, I intend to be an active voice and thread presence but it's simply gonna come in the evenings or on the weekends, I try not to allow myself to look at forum games when I'm on the clock. I have a bit of an obsessive personality and for that reason I need to set boundaries for myself. Yesterday and today not great days for me due to my work schedule, for obvious reasons I was not anticipating having to play a high-commitment forum game, & this evening I have some stuff going on, but this weekend I will Most Definitely be around.
I don't actually expect anyone to metadive me, I pretty much never bother doing that, but I know that's a Thing so if you are interested:
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
P-edit: Okay, I was writing more content about my own playstyle but I saw FB's post and I get you guys don't really need that so I'll just put it in a spoiler at the bottom of this.
Uhhh, my reads so far. So I knew before I read that the general consensus on my team was that Menalque town, I didn't see any reason to dispute that as I read through. Like, one thing that happened was I read 156, and I said to myself, "hm, this kinda seems like a villager, not really sure why, but yeah," and then in 242 Ampharos has the exact same take on it, so that was a good sign. The Menalque sub in is so interesting, I don't really ~know~ Menalque (have heard him referred to at points), but the entire game just seemed to sort of warp around his sub-in. Clearly he's a strong player based on how people have treated him, and just like, the general air of his posts, so I guess I shouldn't write him off too easy? But just the general tone, confidence, energy of his posts gave me good vibes on read-through. And he hard TR obvious town Super, so like. That's a plus, too. Idk I just want him to be town too, this game seems like it'll be so much easier if he's town.
Lilith was the other slot that came off as strongly town on my read. Uh, just the vibes of her like, being busy, not having time to always catch up on thread, but when she's behind she always holds her ground and insists she's gonna take it at her own pace, and then when it's time for her to catch up it looks like she reads the whole thread and outs detailed thoughts on each player. I feel like I can relate deeply to the mindset she holds, admittedly I haven't actually read her posts that CLOSELY but. Look we're at first impressions here.
I have a work meeting now but the other slot I want to expand on is Koba when I get a chance--will try to get to it sometime this evening. I've played w/ them before, know them decently well, can probably provide some insights to what I believe they were doing / their behavior.
Included spoiler post below with a long rant about my playstyle, you don't need to read it if you don't want to, probably unnecessary:
Spoiler: More shit about me
Some other info about my playstyle & just general who I am:
My favorite part of this game is looking for the #DeepWolves, I am like my home site's resident conspiracy theorist. Super called herself the most paranoid player somewhere earlier... I counterclaim that the difference is my tinfoiling is pretty internal but it's incessant. Another thing about me, I like reading the game chronologically. I can't just pick out individual posts without context and say "this is a villager, this is a wolf" like some people seem to be able to (maybe I'm not experienced enough yet), instead I have to read the game, and read it again, and read it again, until I've read the game so many times that I live and breathe the game, I live in the game, I Become the Game and the Game whispers to me and the Game tells me who the mafia are.
Results vary but I like to think I'm decent at scumhunting just thru brute force if anything.
My scum game is like... trying to figure out how I can replicate the same thought process and tone and stuff that I have as tone, realizing I can't, and just trying to avoid attention and figure out ways to set up my partners to endgame knowing I'll be caught and elimmed at some point. My best scumgame (I only have those 3 in forum) is probably that Neighbor Mafia game, and the only reason I did well there is cuz it was a multiball and I basically hacked the setup by figuring out who the 3P was, fabricating an entire one shot day cop claim around that player, getting them lynched, and then town miscleared me off the mechs. Even in that one I was fairly blatant tho and before my claim I was under a lot of pressure.
I think the only other thing to know about me is I generally try not to AtE regardless of alignment these days. I was never fond of it and after awhile I just decided to strip it out of my game entirely. For me, these forum games are the online equivalent of a bunch of people sitting around a table, passing out role cards, and just enjoying the intellectual exercise and each other's company. I don't really think I believe in the concept of Mafia: The eSport, I just think it's a fun hobby and I love meeting new people.
Someone asked me why I voted Johnny -- just because I saw Fire and Lilith vote him -- kinda not feeling the game a lot right now. Fine with switching over to AL as well
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
Oh, and I want to quickly clarify that my #1 Mission right now is to press on Autumn Leaves and get a Vibe read on them for myself. I subbed into this, and like, I've been trying to hold off on reading all my team's stuff rn because I want to get a fresh pair of eyes first, but I'll say that they are hard tunneled on Autumn. There was a list of teamsolves they were considering and every single teamsolve I saw involved Autumn Leaves. Which was mildly concerning actually, because at that point you know it's in conf bias territory.
On read through for myself, I saw some eh posts, but I guess I didn't really... I didn't NOT see it. But like, the case of how Autumn Leaves is calling Super a deepwolf without reasons, sure, that's true, but like. It's a decent point but I don't see it as slam-dunk and there were a few posts here or there from them that I thought were OK.
I trust the members of my team a lot, they're fantastic players, but I also can see a universe where Hercule (who is kind of an ego player himself) saw Autumn pushing on Super and just went feral. Menalque reaffirming the read gives me some confidence, but the whole thing there did play out a bit OMGUS-y as well. I like my vote where it is, but I want to presh Autumn a bit myself, get my own in-the-moment read.
@Autumn the reason I want Ydrasse's read on The Situation is that... I don't really know you, but I've played with her, I think she's a great player. I know she's a busy person and if she doesn't have the bandwidth that's fine, but if you're town I feel like... communicating with her might help me see it? Maybe not, but I'd like to try.
In post 2930, Auro wrote:Walk me through the differences between Super!town and Super!wolf, in terms of her specific towntells this game
This will be unnecessary.
Anything I say will be basically the equivalent of self-meta, given it's my own slot, but I can actually do this if needed. I mean I try not to rely on meta too much in general but I can break down my experiences and the way I have known she is a wolf in the past. Just lmk.
In post 2933, joqiza wrote:Anything I say will be basically the equivalent of self-meta, given it's my own slot, but I can actually do this if needed. I mean I try not to rely on meta too much in general but I can break down my experiences and the way I have known she is a wolf in the past. Just lmk.
Sure, it'll be helpful. I read your post previously as that
Super
was an easy read, not you; but I simply think that it may be a waste of time rather than just scumhunting given you're a self-claimed "ez" read
In post 2848, chennisden wrote:I basically see where he's coming from with most of his posts.
You can see where he’s coming from in deciding to treat a slot in bad faith from the moment it replaces and why when pushed on why he’s treating said slot in bad faith his reasoning was “because I have such a strong scumread there” which when asked to substantiate why that scumread was
so
strong that if justified deviation from his normal behaviour of treating even his scumreads in good faith, he couldn’t explain beyond “gut”?
I also believe I’m still waiting for a response on this, chennis
When I say "I dont think X would do this as scum" I don't mean they aren't
capable
of it, just that it would make little sense for them to do that --
even accounting for WIFOM spam or whatever
. That is how I felt about Autumn's take on you, Menalque.
Quick question how has my take on Johnny not been any more "random" than that? And why haven't you called it out? We both know what the answer is: because Johnny is not your slot, and you're giving your slot a lot more weight in this game than I think you should.
In post 2744, chennisden wrote:perhaps TMI was the wrong descriptor - what i meant to get across was "this feels very contrived to get a Thing done"
okay I mean the Thing I was trying to get Done was to see if anyone would join a flopz wagon for dubious reasons.. I feel like this can be appropriately called baiting?? therefore it seems like your concern with me is both that I baited and that I didn’t bait hard enough
I do want to come back to this chennis, I know you “aren’t interested in me” but I’m now concerned your read on me is fake
In post 2744, chennisden wrote:perhaps TMI was the wrong descriptor - what i meant to get across was "this feels very contrived to get a Thing done"
okay I mean the Thing I was trying to get Done was to see if anyone would join a flopz wagon for dubious reasons.. I feel like this can be appropriately called baiting?? therefore it seems like your concern with me is both that I baited and that I didn’t bait hard enough
I do want to come back to this chennis, I know you “aren’t interested in me” but I’m now concerned your read on me is fake
you were townreading flopz, you say. but wuere? and your "reaction test" or wtv feels rly convenient to me still. i still think ur posts look like u were genuinely scumreading flopz then
In post 2773, Firebringer wrote:If you for a minute think i am gonna vote people YOU scumread just because YOU SCUMREAD THEM THEY ARE SO GOOD READS.
This is just a misrep, I don’t think I’ve ever said infinity is a good vote bc I scumread him
I think infinity is a good vote because of the incredibly bad faith he treated my slot in
I think infinity is scummy because
(1) he would be scummy for treating any rep in slot in bad faith from the get go
(2) this is particularly scummy for infinity who has a demonstrable pattern as town of behaving in very good faith
(3) it’s tricky concerning that he would decide to treat my slot in such bad faith given our recent past experiences with each other in JK9++
Even if you remove (3) because you think it’s too personal to me/self-meta-y, I think (2) and (1) are still very compelling
Even if you remove (2) as well, because you don’t trust meta, I still think (1) alone is enough to justify an infinity elimination today because I think acting in bad faith in mafia is one of the strongest indicators there is that someone is scum
I mean yes, 1 I don't deathtunnel often as town, but there are definitely examples of it. 2 And I never deathtunnel as scum. 3 The idea that I would think you're an easy target after being beyond obvtown in when you were pushed on in PyP, and 4 OMGUSing the shit out of people who pushed on you, is pretty nonsense. 5 I think you SR me because you refuse to believe I would make such an awful play as town, without having enough knowledge about me as a player to know.
(1) okay where
(2) I wouldn’t necessarily describe your behaviour here as deathtunnelling on me so I don’t think this supports your argument
(3) I don’t think you pushed me because you thought I was an easy target, although I think I was the easiest I was likely to be as a target when I repped in. My working theory on this is that my PoE is correct and winning, and so it was necessary for scum to take action (even if suboptimal) because otherwise the game was just a loss. I’ve done similar — see, for example, my attempts to induce paranoia about the townbloc and to make alisae very hard distanced with me in the probable case of my death in ONS. Those weren’t things I /wanted/ to do as scum because the paranoia about the townbloc doesn’t really look good and I probably wouldn’t make so much effort to distance with a partner normally esp if we couldn’t communicate. But the PoE being so bad for us meant I had to try. I think it could be a similar case here. You didn’t want to push me; you felt I had to, and knew it would get harder the longer you waited
(4) this is probably the best reason against you being scum — the fact you know I don’t take pushes on myself well if they’re not explained and I can’t see how the person is reaching the conclusion I’m scum. However, I think point (3) has adequate explanatory power for why you might go for it anyway, and I guess also this could explain your bad faith; if you thought I would *definitely* realise you were scum if you bullshitted actual reasons (like when hoopla voted me in PyP and her reasons pinged the shit out of me bc they didn’t make sense) that would twig me *more* than just not engaging with me and saying it was because you had such a strong gutread.
(5) ehh, yeah, kinda? Like I’ve never denied this. A very large part is that I struggle to see town!you making the decisions you would have had to have made here, whereas I can see scum!you feeling like you *need* to try and take me out if I’m pushing a correct PoE
In post 2798, Menalque wrote:I will admit that part of why I want infinity dead at this point is that I am very sold on this read and think I won’t be able to move on in the game without receiving confirmation one way or the other
I think it’s much more likely that he flips scum, but if he is town then my continued belief that he’s scum will continue to colour my perception of the game in an inaccurate way and make it much harder for me to actually get to correct SRs
Even if joqiza SRs me, there are at least 3 townies that townread me here, and don't need my flip to re-evaluate, so I don't particularly care about this
You don’t have to care about it, it was more for the others
Also what do you mean “there are at least 3 townies that townread me here”?
In post 2893, joqiza wrote:@Autumn as a start, I'd be interested in hearing Ydrasse's current view of this game.
Ydrasse...has not been keeping up with the game. Is there anything specific you want her to ask about?
I would still like her to substantiate why she allegedly said I was “scumclaiming” earlier in the game with an explanation that is not “I think Mena was scumclaiming”
In post 2927, joqiza wrote:I don't really ~know~ Menalque (have heard him referred to at points)
“Wow have did u hear that Mena threw another game the other day?”
“My god, another one!? He is truly awful”
I see my reputation precedes me
Hi, joqiza
I’m probably not going to bother to try and read you that much because I think your predecessor was v town but I am looking forward to having you in the game and working with you!
the difference is my tinfoiling is pretty internal but it's incessant. Another thing about me, I like reading the game chronologically. I can't just pick out individual posts without context and say "this is a villager, this is a wolf" like some people seem to be able to (maybe I'm not experienced enough yet), instead I have to read the game, and read it again, and read it again, until I've read the game so many times that I live and breathe the game, I live in the game, I Become the Game and the Game whispers to me and the Game tells me who the mafia are.
