TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[MathBlade]

He may annoy the shit out of me for not agreeing with townblocking sure, but disagreement doesn’t always mean scum. It’s how he disagrees that makes him town. I wish I was Titus and could just magically make him agree but I am not.

[Menalque]

@math again, that’s only an attack insofar as you’re perceiving it as one? If you’d said “no, there is no evidence of town saying this is optimal anywhere” then yes, I would have had to evaluate it on its own merits

But cognitive load wise it’s a lot easier to just ask if there is evidence of town players with a solid grasp of strategy saying the same thing elsewhere than to do that off the bat

Is it lazy of me? Sure, but I think being lazy on the things I can be lazy on is perfectly justifiable (and I think you’d have a very hard time arguing I’ve been lazy with regard to this game in general)

Your second paragraph is exactly why I think you’re scum. It’s easier to attack where the idea originated than the merits of the idea. I already said it was weird. I expected push back but on the merits not the source.

Again, why should I bother trying to sort the merits myself if I can proxy that out to known good faith town?

Because those players are not in this game, you are. Sometimes the best strategy overall is not the best case here. Everything has to be evaluated at the time it’s said and with the context of the game. “Eg all fake claimers die” is really more a “almost all fake claimers die” except when dealing with someone like Radiant Cowbells. It’s forcing the work you should be doing onto others and I hate it.

Okay, I don’t really care if you hate it or not, it’s just being (1) humble and (2) prophylactic against scum trying to push suboptimal strategy

Also your analogy doesn’t work bc you’re talking about a strategy which we as a whole should follow with regard to the game overall, not whether or not a particular slot should be treated a certain way

[Menalque]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

That’s not how I use shade

Shade is when you try to make a slot look bad/worse without actually calling them out or saying you think they’re scum

It’s a way to damage them without exposing yourself

Saying someone is scummy for something and explaining why isn’t shade

[MathBlade]

@math again, that’s only an attack insofar as you’re perceiving it as one? If you’d said “no, there is no evidence of town saying this is optimal anywhere” then yes, I would have had to evaluate it on its own merits

But cognitive load wise it’s a lot easier to just ask if there is evidence of town players with a solid grasp of strategy saying the same thing elsewhere than to do that off the bat

Is it lazy of me? Sure, but I think being lazy on the things I can be lazy on is perfectly justifiable (and I think you’d have a very hard time arguing I’ve been lazy with regard to this game in general)

Your second paragraph is exactly why I think you’re scum. It’s easier to attack where the idea originated than the merits of the idea. I already said it was weird. I expected push back but on the merits not the source.

Again, why should I bother trying to sort the merits myself if I can proxy that out to known good faith town?

Because those players are not in this game, you are. Sometimes the best strategy overall is not the best case here. Everything has to be evaluated at the time it’s said and with the context of the game. “Eg all fake claimers die” is really more a “almost all fake claimers die” except when dealing with someone like Radiant Cowbells. It’s forcing the work you should be doing onto others and I hate it.

Okay, I don’t really care if you hate it or not, it’s just being (1) humble and (2) prophylactic against scum trying to push suboptimal strategy

Also your analogy doesn’t work bc you’re talking about a strategy which we as a whole should follow with regard to the game overall, not whether or not a particular slot should be treated a certain way

It quite literally does.

If you’re cooking what’s the best way to do prep?
If you’re solving a math problem, what’s the best way to find the needed info?

There’s a standard answer that then can be seen if it applies in this game. This game is the context.

[Menalque]

Fb is in your no elim pool despite your earlier concerns on him bc he’s voting for someone who pinged you but who you admittedly haven’t read most of the posts of?

^there you go math, that’s what shade looks like

Correct.
Firebringer is a player who is easily sorted with a bit of pressure.
And if I waited to read everyone’s iso before voting it would be a very long while before I did anything. I don’t roll like that. I vote what pings me and when I get time I look back and make sure it’s justified.

Okay, guess I’ll wait for u to look back then

Don’t think it’s a good look tho

[MathBlade]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

That’s not how I use shade

Shade is when you try to make a slot look bad/worse without actually calling them out or saying you think they’re scum

It’s a way to damage them without exposing yourself

Saying someone is scummy for something and explaining why isn’t shade

Agree to disagree. I am not spamming the thread with word definition fight with you when I have a shit ton to read and catch up on.

[Menalque]

Playing mafia isn’t cooking or solving a math problem

Also, the easiest way to get the answer to a math problem is copying the work of the kid who’s (1) good at maths and (2) you know is good because there’s proof of it

[MathBlade]

Auro, I get that you like to argue, but what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Mena probably isn't getting eliminated today, and fire has already said he's not changing his mind.

@Chenn Why is your TR on me gone?

And why exactly is Menalque probably not getting eliminated today? You buddies with him or something?

[Menalque]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

That’s not how I use shade

Shade is when you try to make a slot look bad/worse without actually calling them out or saying you think they’re scum

It’s a way to damage them without exposing yourself

Saying someone is scummy for something and explaining why isn’t shade

Agree to disagree. I am not spamming the thread with word definition fight with you when I have a shit ton to read and catch up on.

Sure

I’m just making the point that when I say I’m not shading you there it’s because of my difference in definition, I’m not trying to argue I’m not attacking your slot with that point because I am

[Auro]

Eurgh all the quoting makes it unpleasant to read.

[MathBlade]

There's

so much more value

in unifying town as opposed to individually just pushing your pet elimination and trying to out-shout the rest.

Let's try not using buzzwords like "unify town" and actually assess the results. I feel like what you're proposing here would do that - let the loudest players intimidate everyone else into submission

That’s the thing, loud players here can’t do that when there is a townblock. It’s literally antiMathBlade / antiTitus protection. If a majority of people have me in their “would elim” pools it prevents a power wolf/deep wolf from taking hold. If people hold to their “has to be within x people” where X is the number of scum or less then you can get loud angry resistance if the top posters don’t like it. Instead forcing collaboration forces consistency in reads and makes people pretend to be town. It’s not a buzz word if used properly.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Chenn

This entire posting from Flopz is ewwwww. Definitely would eliminate today.

[MathBlade]

Playing mafia isn’t cooking or solving a math problem

Also, the easiest way to get the answer to a math problem is copying the work of the kid who’s (1) good at maths and (2) you know is good because there’s proof of it

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid, so you have to evaluate yourself. The question is I am wondering if you can.

I am going to be reading now and asking my teammates for their reads since I think I have a foot hood on the game. Will be back on Monday night at the latest. I have to run errands this afternoon and D&D tonight so may not be on much.

[Menalque]

Auro, I get that you like to argue, but what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Mena probably isn't getting eliminated today, and fire has already said he's not changing his mind.

@Chenn Why is your TR on me gone?

And why exactly is Menalque probably not getting eliminated today? You buddies with him or something?

I think it’s more that three people are TRing me (infinity, flopz, joqiza) and another four I think are townleaning me (Lili, chenn, auro, johnny) leaving only (you, fire)

Also, if you’d /read the game/ then you would know that the idea of infinity/me being partnered is laughable

[Menalque]

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid, so you have to evaluate yourself. The question is I am wondering if you can.

I do, it’s called “town players in towns that have previously won in flag games and who advanced a strategy”

[Auro]

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid

*Raises hand* Just let me

integrate

into the town block.

[Menalque]

I think I would still like to eliminate infinity today, if scum, then (chenn->johnny) in either order the next two days

If infinity!town, I’d like to kill math tomorrow, and then if scum, fire

If neither is scum, then probably best to execute me on D3 and then in lylo try to figure out if it’s in (chenn, auro, fire) that scum is most likely or if scum just followed a “let town eat themselves” plan and if it’s in (Johnny, flopz, +1 of the above 3)

Still doubt that lili or joqiza are scum, but obviously at that point they should be double checked too

[Menalque]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

[Autumn Leaves]

Auro, I get that you like to argue, but what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Mena probably isn't getting eliminated today, and fire has already said he's not changing his mind.

@Chenn Why is your TR on me gone?

And why exactly is Menalque probably not getting eliminated today? You buddies with him or something?

If you read up you'll know that mena I town (I think?)

There's not enough support anyway

[Autumn Leaves]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

*raises hand*

[Menalque]

You are the only slot who I was strongly expecting to say that lmao

I read it for a moment as you agreeing and was about to call you out on it

[Menalque]

What are your feelings on math @infinity?

[Autumn Leaves]

I want to stick to my TR on koba, he's mostly been normal math so far

[Menalque]

Thoughts on his reactions to me on this and the last page?

[Auro]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

I'd still rather kill Chennisden first. I'm not super comfortable with decision trees just yet, we've not had any real tension from wagons yet.