TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Auro]

Auro what do you think of fb again?

By play, townread -> vibing with him, plus his defusing of unhealthy tension in the game. Also I read his mild AtE regarding the pointlessness of talking to Lilith towny.

[Auro]

I’m also not sure it’s exactly a bloc because of you/auro, fb/me, my diminished but still somewhat present auro paranoia

You're always gonna have pauronoia
I don't think fb or I matter: townblocs from the perspective of "let's just lim everyone else" are theory bad as you always have better information with flips, I think you/Joqiza/Lilith should just make an extra effort at aligning with each other.

[Menalque]

pauronoia

Dear god, tell me this isn’t the new “Flavor Fever”

[Menalque]

I don't think fb or I matter: townblocs from the perspective of "let's just lim everyone else" are theory bad as you always have better information with flips, I think you/Joqiza/Lilith should just make an extra effort at aligning with each other.

I agree that townblocs that don’t get re-examined are bad. I also think that townblocs that are overly forced are bad, which is why I don’t think this is a townbloc exactly nor do I really wanna make it one (I would say a townbloc is where basically all the TRs are mutual). But I think I’d like to have a pool of players that I don’t want to elim on D1 or 2 even if I’ll re-evaluate on D3 if no scum flips by then, and I’d like to try to align votes as much as possible within that. Me/lili/joqiza aligning would be good; having 4 or 5 votes would be even better.

I’m also not sure what lili’s actual read is on me: I know I’m somewhere towards town but idk if I’m a lean, a read, strong or weak, or conditional for her, which is also slightly complicating.

[Auro]

I agree that townblocs that don’t get re-examined are bad. I also think that townblocs that are overly forced are bad, which is why I don’t think this is a townbloc exactly nor do I really wanna make it one (I would say a townbloc is where basically all the TRs are mutual). But I think I’d like to have a pool of players that I don’t want to elim on D1 or 2 even if I’ll re-evaluate on D3 if no scum flips by then, and I’d like to try to align votes as much as possible within that. Me/lili/joqiza aligning would be good; having 4 or 5 votes would be even better.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm saying.

[Menalque]

Okay, I think I’m happy with just calling fb town now although I would still like to know what joqiza thinks

[Menalque]

If you and lili are both saying he’s town, and I was coming round to that anyway then I think that all points towards me prob being wrong earlier on him

[Auro]

Yeah I was trying to get you two to align earlier in the game nice that it's beginning to happen.

[Menalque]

What, me and fb? Or me and lili?

[Auro]

You and FB

[Menalque]

Oh, right

I think fb is prob going to continue to tunnel me all game so I wouldn’t necessarily call this aligning, but I think if we can win before a lylo with both of us in it and I can stop him getting much influence in the game that probably isn’t a problem

[joqiza]

Joqiza, how strong are you on johnny!scum? I’ll vote there if you’re very confident, but my concern is he really feels like a compromise slot, which I think both makes him more likely to be town and makes him a less useful flip if town compared to infinity/math

I'm at work rn, so will go into more detail this evening. My quick thoughts.

- I don't want Johnny hammered before he has the chance to respond.
- I think Johnny's occasional pop-ins are wolfy. I can case him this evening. Am I confident he'll flip maf? No, because he might be apathetic and detached town. But if we assume a game-winning townblock, then apathetic and detached town that votes against town's interests and refuses to re-evaluate is like, not that far away from being a wolf. Like there is really no difference other than town!Johnny has the miniscule chance to re-evaluate his position, which so far he has shown no sign of doing.
- Tbh I still think Johnny/Autumn are viable and Autumn's vote on him could potentially be WIFOM.
- Math has been bad but I'm still partial to the Kobaslot. There is one progression in particular which I'll outline this evening, where it feels like Koba felt they couldn't get scum!Super limmed, so wanted to lim her partners--then voted lilith, Super reacted, and Koba seized on that. This would be a fairly complex thought process to fake.

[joqiza]

In terms of who we'd bring into the block of me/Mena/Auro/Lilith as the fifth, I would be okay with Firebringer at the moment but this is the kind of read that is contingent on flips. If Johnny flips scum I think he might spew Kobaslot town.

[joqiza]

Personally, I have no issue re-examing townblocks each day and in fact find the concept helpful both in general sorting and in finding deepwolves. There's no requirement for anyone to call anything a "townblock" if they don't want to.

As of rn I intend to find a group of 4 people I believe are villagers and chop everyone else one by one. As I do so, if chopped slots starts flipping town, and the remaining teams within the shrinking PoE appear unviable, then this is my signal to re-examine the slots I have cleared. That is the way I play mafia.

[Auro]

This is more for funsies than to demonstrate any point but joqiza, if you could sort people this game purely by charisma (independent of alignment) how would it look like?

[Menalque]

That doesn’t seem like a super helpful question, auro

[joqiza]

I would be at the top, obviously.

[Auro]

That doesn’t seem like a super helpful question, auro

This is more for funsies

[joqiza]

In actuality I don't know and I feel like calling people low-charisma is kind of offensive so I'd rather refrain from phrasing it like that. I think Menalque is pretty charismatic, but I wouldn't have a strong ranking outside of that anyway. The less active / low-post counts such as Johnny have less "influence" over the game. Lilith probably has less influence than she would otherwise due to her activity.

[joqiza]

On the other hand, Menalque and I clearly don't have

that

much influence, since we couldn't get Autumn chopped when we were both focused on him.

[Menalque]

I meant more like

I think the game has gotten back to a point where it’s fine/pleasant to play and ranking people by charisma probably isn’t helpful for that

[Auro]

Oh, sorry, I wasn't actually expecting a ranked list. Also, I didn't think "low charisma" was offensive, apologies if it is so.

[Menalque]

I’d say talking about influence is fine but I think charisma can have an oog implication of what people are like just in terms of their personality and it’s sort of a blurred line. Like skitter for instance is a very charismatic person as is the duck but I’ve seen games where neither of them could get what they wanted at all and had no influence despite their charisma

I think influence-wise it seems like johnny/flopz/fb/infinity are probably towards the bottom

Chennis somewhere in the middle as is math

Then maybe auro?

Then probably lili

Then probably joqiza and me

[Auro]

I think alignment-independent personality reads are somewhat relevant in forming alignment reads and the scenarios where <charismatic but can't get what you want> versus <charismatic and things are going well> are interesting to look at, but perhaps I should shut up about that now

Firebringer should be higher, he does influence me. We should talk, Firebringer

[Menalque]

I put firebringer there because he’s wanted me dead for like 70 pages or something but I haven’t had more than 2 votes for the last maybe 40 pages, I don’t think