In post 28, Flea The Magician wrote:I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.
Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.
vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town
But the problem being with that is, the fact that we have blank vigilantes who can't back anything up, so it's easy for scum to say they are a vigilante but then claim they must be blank, we aren't then any further forward whether to believe a claim.
For example you can have 4 people claim they shot 4 different people, but all 4 are alive, the 4 claimed vigilantes then can say they must be blank vigilantes and we're still in the square one situation.
So at the current moment, I'm saying a mass claim isn't going to be helpful, it'd probably won't be helpful until at least the last day when numbers are really low.
In post 42, Raya36 wrote:Idk, personally too much wifom about the 1 scum or no kill for me to be happy with that plan. Mafia no kills and then we're just picking off our vigs because we assumed mafia had no reason to no kill.
All kills will be claimed though. If we go through with this mafia have no choice but to have 1 claim vig and the kill or else we have a bunch of confirmed townies. Unless they're assuming there won't be many vigs that aren't blank and they're ok with that amount getting confirmed. Then they're obvious targets for the kill because they're confirmed town and also confirmed not to be bombs.
disagree but let’s just see how it goes then. Discussing mafia actions that haven’t happened yet is not a good idea
In post 28, Flea The Magician wrote:I can't see ANY reasonable situation where even a partial vig claim would help us here, honestly.
Kinda sus. Not sure why we'd IC vig's either.
vigs are ICs as long as the mafia kill is identified.
As long as everyone claims their shots right after making them and there’s still 1 left for mafia, those who claimed will have to be town
But the problem being with that is, the fact that we have blank vigilantes who can't back anything up, so it's easy for scum to say they are a vigilante but then claim they must be blank, we aren't then any further forward whether to believe a claim.
For example you can have 4 people claim they shot 4 different people, but all 4 are alive, the 4 claimed vigilantes then can say they must be blank vigilantes and we're still in the square one situation.
there’s no point of talking about that either. Blanks will know that they’re blanks immediately after shooting
cases where 2 people claim the same shot should be looked into
that’s all there is to it. This is IIOA, push someone instead
In post 25, nepenthe wrote:no but on a serious note, i don't think massclaiming is beneficial in that if i'm understanding this correctly, it just sets scum up with an easier path on who to kill/needlessly sets town back a bit.
In post 26, Raya36 wrote:I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum
welp... ok
I should have read the entire thread before posting
that’s fair. I forgot about the kill PoE
you're alright. if it helps, i'm just messing with you but i like your flow of thought thereafter and it feels natural. inclined to think this slot is town - i don't see scum asking for a massclaim and then rebounding with "forgetting about kill PoE" - it feels too innocent, like... not sure how to explain that better but i just think ejj's sincere here and would've probably tried to spin it by making up a reason for why massclaim could be beneficial for town if he was scum and had something to gain from it. does that make sense?
In post 26, Raya36 wrote:I can see a massclaim being helpful later in game to lie detect and try to mechanically solve the game but as it is now I don't think town would gain much info whereas it would really help scum
As a mass-claim happens in nearly every single game that has power roles, this is a semi-useless post. Seems overly fluffy
In post 14, ejjinami wrote:I wasn’t really planning to play this game but here I am
don’t expect any sort of amazing activity from me
What do you think of a massclaim right at the beginning?
Vigs are potential ICs while super saints/bombs could be used to get a double lynch (if the person who’s supposed to hammer doesn’t hammer, they’ll get shot)
So theoretically it’d be better if we lynch among the bomb/supersaint group
I admit that I haven’t analyzed all aspects of it but at first glance claiming [vig] or [not vig] might be beneficial
1. says not to expect any sort of amazing activity
2. asks for a massclaim
alright buddy, the bar has been lowered.
??????????????
the question about the massclaim was serious lol
I feel like people rn are rejecting it jsut because “oh no massclaims aren’t great in most setups so they surely won’t help now”, without even bothering to stop for a moment and think
We have a few potential ICs in the game but besides that, absolutely no investigative power. That alone makes me really unwilling to lynch among that bunch
Bombs and super saints can be used to find scum as well. Lynching a supersaint can give us advantage over the mafia (lower their kill to lynch ratio)
so at first glance, claiming [vig, not vig] doesn’t seem like a bad idea
I’m NOT good at setup spec and I DON’T have a lot of experience with it, which is why I’m asking. Please think of it and provide me with an answer different from just “lol no”
lol no
In seriousness I'll give it a think after catching up
In post 49, nepenthe wrote:weirdly worried about raya versus ejj being tvt though, i don't sr either of them after reading their exchange.
Odd thing to be worried about? What's wrong with us being TvT?
I think this a general hole in nepenthe's logic. I need an answer to this question
Also I'm tinfoiling a Raya/nepenthe team simply because this post's tone seem somewhat too questioning. I'm going to wait for flips until I act much further on association reads but for now I need an answer.
In post 61, Raya36 wrote:As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic
Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.
In post 61, Raya36 wrote:As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic
Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.
I think I've only ever done last day mass claims and I can't think of many setups where I'd be comfortable with a D1 massclaim
The setup contains 3-5 vigilantes, and 2-4 bombs or supersaints.
Bombs remaining unclaimed will make Mafia ultimately scared as to who to shoot and/or waste their utility with the factional doctor shot (which I didn't know existed until reading the mechanics again) or not shoot at all as a double down of framing a Vigilante claim and/or using the Mafia NK to secure a claim themselves . Although this can also double kill Town which doubles down as clearing PoE if the vigilantes are being scum-read. Bombs shouldn't claim and neither should Supersaints, and in extension Vigilantes claiming will out both and that's not good so I'm against a mass-claim. We can probably utilize Supersaints by getting select players to hammer as well to be fair.
This was midnight setup spec though so probably wrong, now I'm done with that and I'm on to reading people.
Come to think of it, from memory ejji yeeted iioa on us immediately and is reading Kop as scum because they are doing iioa as well?
In post 61, Raya36 wrote:As someone who doesn't know that much about the pros and cons of mass claims, just trying to get my thoughts out even if they're basic
Mass-claims is generally a mid to late game thing once we've gotten a few flips and the benefits of claiming outweighs the benefits of the opposite. Right now doesn't seem like that's a great idea.
I think I've only ever done last day mass claims and I can't think of many setups where I'd be comfortable with a D1 massclaim
Generally setups that are broken via follow the cop or similar stuff (where there's a doctor and a cop, the hidden doctor goes on the claimed cop to get at least one cop clear and likely more). I've never been in a game where a mass-claim earlier than day 3 was useful.
In post 42, Raya36 wrote:Idk, personally too much wifom about the 1 scum or no kill for me to be happy with that plan. Mafia no kills and then we're just picking off our vigs because we assumed mafia had no reason to no kill.
All kills will be claimed though. If we go through with this mafia have no choice but to have 1 claim vig and the kill or else we have a bunch of confirmed townies. Unless they're assuming there won't be many vigs that aren't blank and they're ok with that amount getting confirmed. Then they're obvious targets for the kill because they're confirmed town and also confirmed not to be bombs.
disagree but let’s just see how it goes then. Discussing mafia actions that haven’t happened yet is not a good idea
-- Or here if you just wanna see fae/faer used in context.