TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[lilith2013]

i have 0 brain power for thinking or casing as i’ve repeatedly said; i’m in no danger of being nightkilled before i can put reasons together; and my overall attitude was “wait and see if I feel like it’s actually worth pursuing or not a real reason to scumread someone”

[Auro]

auro i would like your reads right now

it doesn't have to be on everyone if there's people you just dont have an opinion on rn, but i'd like reads + a little bit of explanation rn

AL!town Flopz!town[but meh?] Lilith!scum. I do have w o r k right now, will detail later today. My team's pitching in soon, I'll relay their thoughts too.

[lilith2013]

I just find your positioning around Johnny incongruent with your lack of scumhunting-investment, with more excitement / intent to push through than one would with simple apathy.

I’m not sure what this means. I clearly stated I just wanted the day to end and I wasn’t townreading Johnny. Not sure how these are incongruent.

[Shirou]

It's very rare for me to adopt the "no engage policy", but I do feel that it's needed here at least from me because I've nothing to gain from interacting with them.

I've re:read the game, thought about it quite a bit, looked at their posts, the VCs, considered our mechanical advantage, and to me it's a question of getting this out of the way which in most cases wins the game.

If it doesn't win the game, at the very least it confirms scum in the town block which is already another important piece of info.

[chennisden]

Sorry Shirou but I think I'm going to be a heel in the mud here even though I think Auro/Flopz nearly always wins the game, mostly because my ego would never recover if I was wrong

Do you mean you'll engage with them?

I'm fine with it but this is like, opening the door to scum victory when even if for some miracle Flopz/Auro are both town, we still have 2 elims left and a solid mechanical play I described

It's like, beyond suboptimal in my opinion to engage them because if I was scum in their shoes, I would rejoice anyone trying to interact with me, because it gives me a chance to disturb the collective thought process with constant bullshit, parroting, strawman, misrepping, derailing, etc.

I'm mostly going to be rereading the relevant parts of Day 1 in the next few (irl) days. But I won't completely ignore them.

Also you've probably gathered this already but my playstyle is a very low-confidence playstyle. My reads jump all over the place. When someone's 80% confident X is scum I'm only, say, 60% confident. (Assuming a baseline of 50%.) It's just that the reads I hold onto tend to be accurate and influence the game enough to get a lim there.

Based on D1 I think this is a read I'm holding onto pretty tightly, but I'd just like to give myself more information to parse through + more chances for me to re-evaluate before I actually commit to anything.

[chennisden]

auro i would like your reads right now

it doesn't have to be on everyone if there's people you just dont have an opinion on rn, but i'd like reads + a little bit of explanation rn

AL!town Flopz!town[but meh?] Lilith!scum. I do have w o r k right now, will detail later today. My team's pitching in soon, I'll relay their thoughts too.

do you not have a read on me

[Auro]

a solid mechanical play I described

Which is contingent on AL being scum, as I understand, and disagree with. I think Flopz!wagon is going to go through anyway after my lim - I'm ambivalent about Flopz anyway, so I'm more focused on the final two elims.

[chennisden]

Auro the fact you seem so resigned about your lim is not making me happy

[Shirou]

If by any chance we derail our votes to people outside of Auro/Flopz first, we will give them the opportunity to WIFOM:

"but what if there's people in the townblock? or Mena / AL partners? or etc etc etc".

While if we get them out of the way first, we either win the game or get confirmation about how correct our townblock is.

It's a no-brainer to me. Too much of something usually backfires, this includes even dedication to solving in this case.

There's a point where enough is enough in my opinion.

[lilith2013]

also would like to note that as soon as Johnny posted after the vc, my team and I simultaneously went “JOHNNY MUST BE SCUM RIGHT?!?! following the thread but didn’t post until after the vc?!?!” I obviously wasn’t sure but like.... again, 0 reasons to townread, I thought he was possibly scum based on the timing of the post, want the day to be over and don’t see a better wagon - I don’t understand how these are “too strong” of reasons as you seem to be implying..

[chennisden]

If you're scum you can do whatever you want, although for the sake of site meta I guess you should fight harder or something. Try to rip through dangerous slots instead of get killed 5 days after D2 start instead of, idk, 2 days after D2 start. Only way u win is by challenging me to a rap battle and winning, and I dont think ur gonna win a rap battle

If you're town you absolutely have to stop being resigned to your death and just thinking "o well town will figure it out hurr durr," and the fact you're acting so ambivalent makes me think you're scum

[Auro]

It's very rare for me to adopt the "no engage policy", but I do feel that it's needed here at least from me because I've nothing to gain from interacting with them.

I've re:read the game, thought about it quite a bit, looked at their posts, the VCs, considered our mechanical advantage, and to me it's a question of getting this out of the way which in most cases wins the game.

If it doesn't win the game, at the very least it confirms scum in the town block which is already another important piece of info.

!Reminder!
It could be too late by that confirmation.

@Chennis: +town unless I find an explanation for your strategy of coming around on the townblock later in the day, which means you'd have to force a trajectory against it at some point which hasn't happened yet?

[Auro]

If you're town you absolutely have to stop being resigned to your death and just thinking "o well town will figure it out hurr durr," and the fact you're acting so ambivalent makes me think you're scum

Hell no. I am going to hunt down scum today, did I state anywhere "o well town will figure it out"? Eww

[chennisden]

If by any chance we derail our votes to people outside of Auro/Flopz first, we will give them the opportunity to WIFOM:

"but what if there's people in the townblock? or Mena / AL partners? or etc etc etc".

While if we get them out of the way first, we either win the game or get confirmation about how correct our townblock is.

It's a no-brainer to me. Too much of something usually backfires, this includes even dedication to solving in this case.

There's a point where enough is enough in my opinion.

To be clear there's almost no way I vote outside of Auro at the end of today, and I know this is probably pointless and Auro just wins the game regardless of whatever alignment flopz is, but just in case I'd like to be in a better position d3 if we dont win

[Auro]

I'm fine with my death because of the consensus algorithmic approach that would otherwise leave me to a lylo lim which is gonna suck, and I'd rather have my flip provide backing to my reads.

[chennisden]

It's very rare for me to adopt the "no engage policy", but I do feel that it's needed here at least from me because I've nothing to gain from interacting with them.

I've re:read the game, thought about it quite a bit, looked at their posts, the VCs, considered our mechanical advantage, and to me it's a question of getting this out of the way which in most cases wins the game.

If it doesn't win the game, at the very least it confirms scum in the town block which is already another important piece of info.

!Reminder!
It could be too late by that confirmation.

@Chennis: +town unless I find an explanation for your strategy of coming around on the townblock later in the day, which means you'd have to force a trajectory against it at some point which hasn't happened yet?

To be clear, I came around on the townblock by nature of "probably just not scum" rather than "I actively townread super and koba's play!" Although jqoiza is just actively towny

[chennisden]

I'm fine with my death because of the consensus algorithmic approach that would otherwise leave me to a lylo lim which is gonna suck, and I'd rather have my flip provide backing to my reads.

Or.. or.. you can come find scum and help us perfect this game

[Auro]

Or.. or.. you can come find scum and help us perfect this game

Which I am doing today, no?

[Shirou]

Which is contingent on AL being scum, as I understand, and disagree with

This is the kind of misinterpretation that you'll have to endure engaging with them

I've consistently tried to make Joqi look outside of AL, and my plan has nothing to do with AL being scum as I do often mention the possibility of both Mena / AL being town, in fact being my belief coming to today, but he'll still latch on to those misinterpretations

I'm not even sure Auro properly read my post rather than being intentionally obtuse about what the plan is about. It has nothing to do with assuming AL is scum, it's about assuming AL is either town, or at least not partners with mena, but Mena / AL can be town/town and the plan is the same.

I digress, if this is the kind of thing you guys want to sit through when we've 4 eliminations now, I'm gonna just sit in the corner and wait.

[Auro]

And of course the pointz

[chennisden]

Let's start... "My role PM says 'Hi Auro you're scum, and your partners are Johnny and [...],' please lim the third instead of me after D2 oh wait you cant"

[chennisden]

Or.. or.. you can come find scum and help us perfect this game

Which I am doing today, no?

I'm fine with my death

disagrees

[chennisden]

By the way the only situation that loses the game here, I think, is 2/3 scum in {Shirou, Menalque, Autumn}, which would mean I'd be embarrassingly wrong on 3/3 reads

[chennisden]

By the way the only situation that loses the game here, I think, is 2/3 scum in {Shirou, Menalque, Autumn}, which would mean I'd be embarrassingly wrong on 3/3 reads

Wait 3/3??? I'm so good at math that 1+1=3 apparently

[Shirou]

I'm gonna act as a treestump for now for awhile, but if I feel that Auro/Flopz is managing to somehow convince you guys of what most likely will be bullshit, I'm not gonna be happy.

I'm gonna secretly look for anything useful they may say, in the smallest of possibilities, but from that Auro post alone I feel that nope, we may be right and it's just a red role pm.

I