TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[chennisden]

Btw shirou is the prime example of why replacements break the game and I think it's pretty ridiculous the site has such a lenient culture with replacing out

I don't necessarily disagree with this, I had something similar happen to me with okapoka replacing in a game I had as scum considered virtually won because I had setup the stage for the last day be Tunneled Town vs Pocketing Partner vs Sacrificial Lamb, but hmm...what happened surprised me a bit although I predicted it a bit when the replacement took place.

However, elaborate?

I think scum's plan has been entirely shattered in half by the replaceouts in general, and particularly by FB->you. If I were scum, I'd have planned to take control of the thread after the dusts of the toxicity cleared up and had my way with slots like koba(aka mathblade) or firebringer(aka you) or whatever,

especially because everyone was on the table at one point

.

[Auro]

I feel like I’ve adequately explained any “lacklustre” or “surfacey” moments by my work schedule. So what makes you believe that any of these moments are better explained by my being scum than my being busy?

I empathize with the work schedule and I've accounted for that. It was the incongruence with your pushes on Johnny. You had to opportunity to do this when you were talking about other things like the townblock, too, so I don't think being busy should excuse everything?

[chennisden]

Actually would like to point out that you don't even have to be very good at scum to do what you're describing

I guess I partially agree on this as long as we also agree on this:

Most people don't seem to enjoy or put that much effort into being scum, therefore although it's arguably not that difficult, in practice it's rarer to encounter those kind of behaviors because scum often just get greedy, impatient, low-effort etc.

I would consider Lilith here as very good scum play either way especially considering other points, but dunno, to each their opinion.

You're right, I don't disagree that Lilith would be good as scum here, but the reason I think this is because of the town paranoia

[lilith2013]

@auro here is my response to that

also would like to note that as soon as Johnny posted after the vc, my team and I simultaneously went “JOHNNY MUST BE SCUM RIGHT?!?! following the thread but didn’t post until after the vc?!?!” I obviously wasn’t sure but like.... again, 0 reasons to townread, I thought he was possibly scum based on the timing of the post, want the day to be over and don’t see a better wagon - I don’t understand how these are “too strong” of reasons as you seem to be implying..

[Auro]

Most people don't seem to enjoy or put that much effort into being scum, therefore although it's arguably not that difficult, in practice it's rarer to encounter those kind of behaviors because scum often just get greedy, impatient, low-effort etc.

Yeah I wish scum in general would play with more enthusiasm [inb4 someone says I'm talking about Johnny ]

[Auro]

@auro here is my response to that

also would like to note that as soon as Johnny posted after the vc, my team and I simultaneously went “JOHNNY MUST BE SCUM RIGHT?!?! following the thread but didn’t post until after the vc?!?!” I obviously wasn’t sure but like.... again, 0 reasons to townread, I thought he was possibly scum based on the timing of the post, want the day to be over and don’t see a better wagon - I don’t understand how these are “too strong” of reasons as you seem to be implying..

I am not talking about post Johnny's wolfing after the VC, I'm talking till the context of when you, Mena and I were conversing about voting/hammering Johnny.

[chennisden]

Like how much paranoia is enough?? Is it too much? Or are you not defending yourself enough? Etc. These are the kinds of hard questions I think scum would have to ask themselves if they tried to pull that off

Which is why "Lilith scum" just doesn't seem likely to me. I'll take people's word for it that she can be good as scum, but pulling this and a variety of other easier things that compound together to be extremely difficult is also extremely unlikely, compared to "I rolled town with a 70% chance and can get toneread as town yippee"

[lilith2013]

If you think I was bussing Johnny, then what’s your explanation for me voting infinity yesterday when johnny was at E-1?

[Auro]

@Lilith I think your time is better spent engaging/hunting within other slots and telling me your plan for Auro->Flopz not ending the game~ As much as I love arguing, engaging with me about my scumread on you is not beneficial as it won't individually help me sort your slot anyway.

[lilith2013]

@auro here is my response to that

also would like to note that as soon as Johnny posted after the vc, my team and I simultaneously went “JOHNNY MUST BE SCUM RIGHT?!?! following the thread but didn’t post until after the vc?!?!” I obviously wasn’t sure but like.... again, 0 reasons to townread, I thought he was possibly scum based on the timing of the post, want the day to be over and don’t see a better wagon - I don’t understand how these are “too strong” of reasons as you seem to be implying..

I am not talking about post Johnny's wolfing after the VC, I'm talking till the context of when you, Mena and I were conversing about voting/hammering Johnny.

again - so you think I was trying to bus Johnny? How do you believe I expected to get towncred without stating reasons for joining the wagon?

[lilith2013]

no but it will help me sort you

[lilith2013]

what exactly will help you sort me if you think engaging with me directly won’t? at this point I’m pretty doubtful that you actually intend to sort me at all.

[Shirou]

who has the most USELESS posts in this game?

Unless some unexpected flips happens...DK?

[Auro]

If you think I was bussing Johnny, then what’s your explanation for me voting infinity yesterday when johnny was at E-1?

It was not a vote leading away from Johnny? Pushing *very* aggressively on Johnny would make the bus clearer too, when AL was not an obvious "not elim" option.

no but it will help me sort you

If you're town I don't think you can gain a strong enough townread on me that would prevent my elim, thus time is better spent elsewhere.

[Auro]

what exactly will help you sort me if you think engaging with me directly won’t? at this point I’m pretty doubtful that you actually intend to sort me at all.

I was able to sort you in that game (where I commented on your tell of throwing out a flurry of meaningless questions) without even being in the game, soooooooo

[Auro]

Not all scumhunting techniques require direct engagement, and sometimes direct engagement can work *against* your efforts to read someone when they're competent at responding and carrying out conversations~

[lilith2013]

And yet you’ve somehow managed to “sort” me incorrectly here

[Auro]

And yet you’ve somehow managed to “sort” me incorrectly here

So I want to see that I am incorrect via observing your play this game outside your engagement with me, and that's what I'm asking you to do, no?

[lilith2013]

Have you not been able to do that in the prior 167 pages?

[Auro]

Have you not been able to do that in the prior 167 pages?

That's leaving me at "Lilith is scum" so far?

[lilith2013]

And yet you’ve somehow managed to “sort” me incorrectly here

and again, you’ve come to an incorrect conclusion on my alignment. so either you’re not as good at reading me as you’ve professed, or you’re scum

[Auro]

Like, you've been busy and that's why you couldn't engage with a lot of slots, sure.
I feel like overall given whatever presence you've had your engagements were still insufficient and make you likelier scum.
I am open to correcting my read today if you can cross that bar for sufficiency.

[lilith2013]

please show what about my engagements you think have been insufficient then

[Auro]

so either you’re not as good at reading me as you’ve professed, or you’re scum

When did I profess to being "good" at reading you? I said I was able to sort you as a spectator to demonstrate that lack of interest in continuous direct engagement is not an implication of lack of sorting. Your work is a confounding factor. You have today.

[Auro]

please show what about my engagements you think have been insufficient then

The lack of them focused *scumhunting* engagements are what I'm talking about.