Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[Imperium]

Was Duchess a scumread of mine or a townread?

I don't know because all you talked about yesterday was Peta and me
If you said which I don't remember

Nacho covered it but for the record:

Duchess was an early gut scum lean for me I didn't state that early, but that's why I told Lotus early on that I didn't like his town read on her in RVS. I told Netflix i leaned her flipping red, and part of my suspicion on Lotus was that i thought it was theater, my original game theory was that there was scum in you/duchess for that early norfolk push, regardless of his alignment. Duchess was part of Nacho's solve he made yesterday though it was a weaker scum read for him as he had a lightish town read there until Lotus flipped. I said I thought that scum was trying to get you shot to shoot us, duchess was part of that.

You can read or posts and get a right read, or not, I'm not going to get angry that you're not bothering anymore.

[unwnd]

I stand by what I said of peta earlier, the reasons you're trudging about are not alignment indicative. I think peta is genuinely annoyed/frustrated at your BoP angle, which even in the event of them being scum will make him less cooperative

[unwnd]

Anyway, I want to squeeze as much content as I can out of this day to ensure a solve, so you have time to try and think of more reasons. I encourage you to do so.

The only reason I would do this is because I greatly prefer you don't waste a shot. I can't really think of anything else however; guilty until proven innocent with you?

[Imperium]

I stand by what I said of peta earlier, the reasons you're trudging about are not alignment indicative. I think peta is genuinely annoyed/frustrated at your BoP angle, which even in the event of them being scum will make him less cooperative

I haven't really explained my scumread on peta yet but still you're already telling me it's not alignment indicative. Keep an open mind. BoP is a tool - it's what turned me on to Spiffeh in TENET and it's what will turn you into me when I'm railing a mislynch on you the next time we're scum together.

Peta's emotion is genuine, sure. He's a good scum player - he knows how to channel and redirect emotions so they sound solid enough.

[Imperium]

I stand by what I said of peta earlier, the reasons you're trudging about are not alignment indicative. I think peta is genuinely annoyed/frustrated at your BoP angle, which even in the event of them being scum will make him less cooperative

I think your distilling it down to a bop angle is disingenuous. I've brought up points that are based on his deflection and not interacting a genuine matter that aren't just bop.

[SirCakez]

Cakez: I would like you to remind me, without checking, who you think first gave Duchess a scumread. No doublechecking. I'm going to insist on that. First thought that comes to mind.

I'm guessing Lotus but I have no idea in reality

[SirCakez]

Was Duchess a scumread of mine or a townread?

I don't know because all you talked about yesterday was Peta and me
If you said which I don't remember

I did say.

Which is why you're pissing me and Tammy off this game. I am not bothered about being tunneled - people make mistakes. When you tunneled with the whole game in Family Mafia, it didn't bother me because you didn't know me.

But we've been scum partners three times. You know you tend to default to scumreading me based on our history together. So the most basic piece that I need from you is to simply read my posts and you just aren't doing that.

And if you don't respect me enough to complete step 1 and attempt to read my posts, then I won't be wasting my time talking to you.

I'm not even tunneling you at this point though? I've stated three other people as my top SRs and you in a pool of maybe-scum.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Anyway, I want to squeeze as much content as I can out of this day to ensure a solve, so you have time to try and think of more reasons. I encourage you to do so.

The only reason I would do this is because I greatly prefer you don't waste a shot. I can't really think of anything else however; guilty until proven innocent with you?

More like "no one is safe".

If I got given the gun, it means my judgement of the gamestate was wrong in some tremendous way, but that it was close enough that I'm a danger they want gone despite such things as changing my read on Duchess just before the flip and other things that would allow them to push a me-scum narrative.

That means that I cannot rely on my past reads, and need to reframe the gamestate. I can come to the same conclusions if I decide to, but I have to know PRECISELY why and how I'm coming to them, and come to them with the most data possible.

[Imperium]

scum will make him less cooperative

Then that's a feature, not a bug. I don't need peta to do anything other than roll over and die.

[unwnd]

I've read your argument many times and considered it, but the conclusions I reached is that you are set on this ideal of his townplay and holding him accountable for not living up to it. Maybe it's not entirely BoP, but I don't believe in just condemning my immediate scumreads in the fashion you are right now. It could be a completely different person, meaning you could be talking about like Cakez here. I would still want to give them time because again--you're forcing him to relent. I don't know why you keep missing

my

perspective on this matter.

pedit- Is to Tammycho

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Okay, I'm going to just hold onto this post for awhile here and come back to anything posted in the meantime later, so I can consolidate my requests.

Cakez: Who scumread Duchess first? Absolutely no double-checking, I want your gut impulse first name to come to your brain answer.

Interesting. Who second? Again, no double checking, I actually prefer you to not know the real answers here; I'm getting a feel for something in particular.

When petapan shows up, I'd like the Day 2 read matrix. Please and thank you. Also, give me your spiciest townread, the one everyone will disagree with.

STT? Give me a towncase on Imperium. Yes, I know you scumread them, that's why I want your towncase specifically. Think about it and you'll get the point of this request.

Imperium, why are you treating unwnd like town if you (to my knowledge) most recently scumread them?

Norfolk, I want a wall from you. You're next in line after unwnd right now, and you're going to have to put some work in to change my mind if unwnd manages to get out of my sights. I know you're capable, too. Now, I don't care too much about the subject of the wall, I just want a lot of text that you personally wrote. That isn't fluff, if you can, but fluff can be insightful too.

[Imperium]

Imperium, why are you treating unwnd like town if you (to my knowledge) most recently scumread them?

They dropped out of my scumreads. Tammy is more skeptical than I but my scumteam is NM/Norfolk/peta/Wheme.

[SirCakez]

Interesting. Who second? Again, no double checking, I actually prefer you to not know the real answers here; I'm getting a feel for something in particular.

Unwnd?

[SirCakez]

Imperium, why are you treating unwnd like town if you (to my knowledge) most recently scumread them?

They dropped out of my scumreads. Tammy is more skeptical than I but my scumteam is NM/Norfolk/peta/Wheme.

We have 3/4 of the same scumreads ftr
Let's stop fighting and work through them

[Imperium]

I've read your argument many times and considered it, but the conclusions I reached is that you are set on this ideal of his townplay and holding him accountable for not living up to it. Maybe it's not entirely BoP, but I don't believe in just condemning my immediate scumreads in the fashion you are right now. It could be a completely different person, meaning you could be talking about like Cakez here. I would still want to give them time because again--you're forcing him to relent. I don't know why you keep missing

my

perspective on this matter.

pedit- Is to Tammycho

I understand your perspective, but this is one thing that will be hard for us to see eye to eye on because you don't have the experience that I do (both with peta and this line of thought in general - runs deep in all the mafia groups that I ran with) and you don't know me well and trust is hard to come by so I get your skepticism.

[Imperium]

Imperium, why are you treating unwnd like town if you (to my knowledge) most recently scumread them?

I'm very unsettled on unwnd.

This head very often treats and talks to my scum reads as what some people reference as town. For me, I accept that I could be wrong and in most cases am trying to figure that out, I also try to always remember there's a human being behind the screen and talk to people as human beings (I fail at this because I get frustrated easily and am an emotional fuckwit), AND because it can be useful to get your scum reads talking.

Sometimes people don't understand that about me, but if you were referring to something like the above, that's just me.

But I am unsettled on uwnd. We've played together twice, and I didn't agree with some of their logic on things but I read him as town quite easily there. It hasn't been that easy this game, but I'm more concerned than nacho is.

I don't know what you getting the gun instead of unwnd like we expected does to that.

[Imperium]

And I understand you being bothered by the strength of my push, but I'm not giving one of the best scum players I've met wiggle room if I don't have to. I also tend to get more aggressive in Imperium town hydras because I know I can lean on Tammy to help me reanalyze; I know she's going to doubt herself every step of the way (even if in thread posts don't reflect thatl!) and I know she will continuously challenge my reads if she finds things out of place.

[Imperium]

Last post @ unwnd.

[Imperium]

We have 3/4 of the same scumreads ftr
Let's stop fighting and work through them

I don't care about getting along with you this game; now that Mush has the gun I'm fairly confident we're winning. But we're going to play together in the future and there will be games where us not being able to get along will lose town the game. I need you to work on some introspection with how you're treating me so that doesn't happen.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Cakez, your guesses at who scumread Duchess first are insightful, because they're wrong.

Wheme was the first one to say the word. Lotus was the second. unwnd didn't scumread Duchess until nearly the very end of Day 1, partially due to not being here until then.

I am taking something useful away from this, but I'm not saying what.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Cakez, your guesses at who scumread Duchess first are insightful, because they're wrong.

Wheme was the first one to say the word. Lotus was the second. unwnd didn't scumread Duchess until nearly the very end of Day 1, partially due to not being here until then.

I am taking something useful away from this, but I'm not saying what.

CORRECTION: It was a day or two before nearly-the-end. Call it the second half of the day, where Wheme and Lotus were the first ~36 hours. I forgot the timeline on Netflix's "let's-play-a-game"s, my bad.

[Imperium]

I've read your argument many times and considered it, but the conclusions I reached is that you are set on this ideal of his townplay and holding him accountable for not living up to it. Maybe it's not entirely BoP, but I don't believe in just condemning my immediate scumreads in the fashion you are right now. It could be a completely different person, meaning you could be talking about like Cakez here. I would still want to give them time because again--you're forcing him to relent. I don't know why you keep missing

my

perspective on this matter.

pedit- Is to Tammycho

What do you think about Peta following Dunnstral's thought about egging on the Lotus shot?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Here's another thing I want to bring up. Who do you think are the most thoughtful, in the "puts a lot of thought into things" sense, players in the playerlist? NOT the best or most skilled or whatever else. Also, you can't say me. Anyone can answer. Everyone can answer. I'm looking for something.

Also: I want someone to ISO unwnd. I don't need them to do a full writeup, just... read through and give me a conclusion on what you see with the benefit of flips.

[SirCakez]

We have 3/4 of the same scumreads ftr
Let's stop fighting and work through them

I don't care about getting along with you this game; now that Mush has the gun I'm fairly confident we're winning. But we're going to play together in the future and there will be games where us not being able to get along will lose town the game. I need you to work on some introspection with how you're treating me so that doesn't happen.

I can't really do this until postgame or you flip because I won't know how sincere all this is or if you're scum playing mind games
That's why I just want to move forwards

[SirCakez]

Cakez, your guesses at who scumread Duchess first are insightful, because they're wrong.

Wheme was the first one to say the word. Lotus was the second. unwnd didn't scumread Duchess until nearly the very end of Day 1, partially due to not being here until then.

I am taking something useful away from this, but I'm not saying what.

Ok