TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Mistyx]

Fuck it, Mistyx, would you do me a favor and refresh me on where you stand?

Full reads list, please, feel free to be brief. We've covered a lot of ground in the last couple of days and your positions have felt like a moving target to me.

me/nancy/akarin are just town

i think fl is probably town here, his overall approach has been following a somewhat predictable trajectory (or at least a very fl one)

i also cannot think of a plausible scum partner for him except maybe ram

so that leaves norwee/you/ram/tsq

norwee/ram isn't a thing, neither is norwee/you just based off your approaches from today

i also think tsq/ram isn't a thing for the same reasons, and neither is tsq/you

so that just leaves norwee/tsq or you/ram

and theres been some stuff that just feels more genuine from norwee/tsq

[Mistyx]

so like

FL or pine+ram
or norwee/tsq

and i think setup-wise it makes more sense for it to be one of FL/Pine than both being town

[Mistyx]

that is such blatant self preservation that i cant even tell if its scummy or not

I could hammer Pine, if I wanted to self preservation. I chose miselim with a clear goal - to break this stalemate, getting 4 people to agree is easier than 5 and we donn't lose miselim. Also I want to see who scum would kill - Nancy are top priority for protection from our PoV, so either they kill one of you/Norwee/Akarin/TSQ and let us flip Norwee/TSQ or they kill me/Pine/FL, which isn't bad either as either, cause it reduce pool for Norwee and TSQ to push, with 2 of us dead it pretty much expose Norwee/TSQ team

okay

if we flip me today

FL and Pine can lock target akarin and nancy

so the kill is forced between you/Pine/FL/Norwee/TSQ

which is essentially our PoE

[Mistyx]

plus we get to odd numbers without having to waste time

[Mistyx]

my only concern is there being a scum roleblocker

which i guess makes sense in the setup

ugh

[Ramcius]

that is such blatant self preservation that i cant even tell if its scummy or not

I could hammer Pine, if I wanted to self preservation. I chose miselim with a clear goal - to break this stalemate, getting 4 people to agree is easier than 5 and we donn't lose miselim. Also I want to see who scum would kill - Nancy are top priority for protection from our PoV, so either they kill one of you/Norwee/Akarin/TSQ and let us flip Norwee/TSQ or they kill me/Pine/FL, which isn't bad either as either, cause it reduce pool for Norwee and TSQ to push, with 2 of us dead it pretty much expose Norwee/TSQ team

okay

if we flip me today

FL and Pine can lock target akarin and nancy

so the kill is forced between you/Pine/FL/Norwee/TSQ

which is essentially our PoE

It's a bit funny how I suggested same a week ago, yet no one wanted flip you for it

[Pine]

that is such blatant self preservation that i cant even tell if its scummy or not

I could hammer Pine, if I wanted to self preservation. I chose miselim with a clear goal - to break this stalemate, getting 4 people to agree is easier than 5 and we donn't lose miselim. Also I want to see who scum would kill - Nancy are top priority for protection from our PoV, so either they kill one of you/Norwee/Akarin/TSQ and let us flip Norwee/TSQ or they kill me/Pine/FL, which isn't bad either as either, cause it reduce pool for Norwee and TSQ to push, with 2 of us dead it pretty much expose Norwee/TSQ team

okay

if we flip me today

FL and Pine can lock target akarin and nancy

so the kill is forced between you/Pine/FL/Norwee/TSQ

which is essentially our PoE

Three problems with that.

First, your math is off. If we elim you, you'd have a unilateral elimination, and you're likely to shoot either Ramcius or I, eliminating two Townies for the price of one.

Second, I'm going to be using my jail offensively, not defensively.

Third, with you eliminating two Townies, that gives a lot more wiggle room for the jailing to give false positives/negatives. It only turns into a serious threat if we elim scum today.

Please go back to where I went from being suspicious of Ramcius to locktowning him. He was incredibly conspicuous as Town in those pages.

[Pine]

Start at 4140 in his ISO, though 3928 is separately good.

[Ramcius]

After some thinking, I doubt scum have an rb, I could see 1-shot ninja or something to deal with follow/track/watch, but rb with strongman isn't justified with town having bunch of 1-shot roles + jk that can rb townies

[Pine]

They have to have something robust - we have a lot of power to just be balanced by a 1-shot Strongman. It’s probably not protective, Akarin has the only (night) killing ability. The investigative roles are too scattershot to be easily countered, though I could see a Ninja shot or something.

Roleblock, rolecop, or similar seem the likeliest redress for the imbalance

[Ramcius]

rb doubles with strongman on dealing with protection, so I feel like it would be one or other

[NorwegianboyEE]

My ISO/our opinions might look confusing because we haven't made some things clear
So let's make it clear:
First of all, shirou was the one mostly helping me in my game and he thought from D1 that it was Pine/FL, with the caveat that there could be from 1 to 2 scum in [DEB, Akarin, Ramcius] depending on Pine/FL flips.
That's why in D1 / D2 / D3 start i was focusing on Pine/FL, because it was Shirou that was mostly helping in my game and i thought their solve seemed good.
Later, JJH did read the game around D2 EoD and started to help us out intensely in D3, while Shirou got bored from the lack of progress in eliminating from their solve and stopped checking.
JJH think it's likely Pine/Ramcius, but in reply to Shirou’s theory of Pine/FL, he says that it's not impossible. It is likely just Pine/Ram though.
At the time when Ram was pushing for the TSQ elim, it was the winning move for a Pine/Ram scumteam since FL was the likely final elim, FL has just not played in a way that resembles a winning scum strategy today at all, which indicates it's not scum FL.
Is Pine scum? Yes. Both Shirou, JJ and also me have always believed so.
Is Ramcius scum? Yes absolutely, it is the unique slot that makes the most sense as Pine’s scum teammate. And they are the one pushing For scum!Pine’s plan to endgame.
Is FL scum? No, he is howver. A huge detriment to town, as Pine has pocketed him and he is pushing scum’s agenda. Howver, he is making one crucial difference, he is pushing me today. Which is not the ideal elimination for scum!Pine. And also we have agreed that both Pine/FL being scum makes little sense mechanically. Which is very possible. In which case FL is the town stooge and scum team is exactly

Pine/Ramcius

.

[NorwegianboyEE]

so that just leaves norwee/tsq or you/ram

Precisely.
So the decision should be clear.
Either you all eliminate in one of me/TSQ or Pine/Ram.
If one of Pine/Ram flips scum then the other should be eliminated as well.
If one of me/TSQ flips town then it proves the scum team is not in us and Pine/Ram should be strongly considered.
Just don’t get confused by any results Pine claims to have because they are fabricated.

[NorwegianboyEE]

With FL scum siding today it makes it really hard to eliminate scum!Pine so i’d be open for an Ram elimination. But like i’ve said. I believe Pine’s fake claim is so extremely obvious that it would sadden me greatly if we actually don’t just kill that slot today. I’ve even said that i will gladly sacrifice my slot if Pine for some reason does end up flipping town. Which is not something i would do if i was scum here, that’s just suicide. I am just that sure.

[Ramcius]

With FL scum siding today it makes it really hard to eliminate scum!Pine so i’d be open for an Ram elimination. But like i’ve said. I believe Pine’s fake claim is so extremely obvious that it would sadden me greatly if we actually don’t just kill that slot today. I’ve even said that i will gladly sacrifice my slot if Pine for some reason does end up flipping town. Which is not something i would do if i was scum here, that’s just suicide. I am just that sure.

Now you're willing to flip me after you gave shit about me trying to flip TSQ to confirm you as a scum and pointing at how I did same thing with TGP?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yes.

[Ramcius]

And I guess you'll still try to flip Pine after mine green flip with "pine/FL is a scum team!", so nah, you ain't getting my flip

[Flavor Leaf]

I really think Pine Norwegian should be settled today

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, PR's be damned, who do y'all want faded?

Take out all setup spec. Take out all mechanical.

Who do you guys want faded today?

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL will you vote Pine if i flip town?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don’t you find it incredibly strange that all of Ram/Pine agree with you that i’m scum but you’re the only one voting me over TSQ.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We’re honestly on the same page right now FL. We’re both pushing that the elimination should be in me/Pine today. The main difference is that you want me over Pine.

[Ramcius]

Don’t you find it incredibly strange that all of Ram/Pine agree with you that i’m scum but you’re the only one voting me over TSQ.

You act like we didn't tried to flip you, we did, but resistance is too high, TSQ is easier to flip and will give same info as your flip

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sounds like crap to me.
TSQ is also a whole lot townier than you have been let’s be real. Pine’s read on you is entirely undeserved and makes sense for partner equity.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Me flipping town would be a greater blow to FL’s ego and might convince him to vote Pine so TSQ is a bad flip for me in the context of getting closer to having scum!Pine eliminated.