Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Bridgeburners]

Its a sorting vote
I dont necessarily scumread him but i dont have a good townread there either
I'm working on my lesser-level reads rn

[seCret hYdra]

catching up

- hYdra

[Datisi]

hmm, i was hoping ico's impostor would've been around today to jam w me...

everything in infinity's posting today is really town imo, voting him just because his secret hydra read was goofy is a bad choice

everything? give me an elaboration of like, idk, the thing you found most townie?

Strong enuf (at least coupled with how today us playing out) that i'm not super vibing an implo vote rn

what about today playing out is making you doubt it further?

datisi is not very towny which makes this game way harder

how dare you

ftr i'm also not sure i quite get isis's fascination with bb here

man this post ain't helping

i'm tired

[seCret hYdra]

Actually, datisi, I need you to elaborate on your sechyd read. At the end of d1 you still seemed open to the possibility that they could be scum, and now you strongly believe that they're not even SK? And what about the gypyx head, which you had concerns about earlier?

where? the only thing even resembling a scumread of sechyd from me at eod1 that i remember/can find right now is that one line in 2204, and lemme tell you... that is not me "being open to the possibility they could be scum". like, literally in that same post, i say *twice* that i don't think they're scum/understand the scumreads on the slot.

yeah, i believe ico's play around shirou was both town!indicative and non-partner!indicative. i had one of those yesterday, i have both today. i don't think sk!ico plays that they way they did. and frankly, no offense to gypyx, but i don't actually care. unless gypyx starts utterly obvscumming (spoiler alert, he hasn't), i'm not gonna spend time reading that head when i could read a person i have a decent (and not sample-size-1) read record on.

ya no offense

you'll have to do with me for the moment though, other head got life issues

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

I guess I just read the lim and the NK back to back and perceived it as a red and green death for the night
Still isn't there like a 20% chance of no SK?

I don’t understand your point, Isis.

My point is the number of kills for the night is pretty much meaningless and the discourse reaching "no kill" from S_S is stupid!

The only number of kills that would have had any meaning is 3, as it would have told us we're in the SK-vig setup exactly. Anything else is an ambiguous mix of different setup rands and kill prevention (and almost certainly not "no killing" since the scum would realize "only number of kills that would have any meaning is 3"

thing is, we have confirmation that the mafia kill was stopped at least, which is some pretty good info

plus i doubt a vig makes that shot, so ya know...

maybe this is already debated actually

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

Spoiler:

implo's entry in 54-55 is BS-y but in a town way, i think

too many townreads from infinity in 57 is a little forced, 64 is okay though, scum maybe not going to call so many people townie early. nvm, tongue in cheek

datisi's early posting looks town, strong questioning

slight town on penguin's 103 reacting to implo calling him hardtown because he hadn't really said anything terribly town indicatve

aaronfrost non-serious vote on schiavetto in 77 is slightly scummy, ignores the momentum of the thread trending toward seriousness

scipio disagree with infinity but calling him town for it in 81 i don't like, feels manufactured

aaronfrost's 84 is scummy. don't like the question in 88, feels busywork. 100 is horribly scummy, generic fillery statement

datisi is just town

don't understand gypyx's reads in 98 at all

dislike the readlist from menalque in a few places. very strongly disagree with 140. dings infinity for too many TRs but not implosion

I like 142 from infinity, "i wanted to townread you for being funny but then i realized i was tring you for being funny" just feels townie

i vaguely townlean 149 from scipio even, though i shouldn't, just saying he can't understand bridge

maybe extreme jokiness from mena rather than immediately trying to look town is town-AI

ben's reads in 162 are all very vague

165 from af is ok in that i agree about infinity. don't like following the meme vote in in 167 while making an excuse about the slp

scipio reasoning in 169 on bridgeburners play is fine, "too bad to be scum" is over-assuming but i think he believes it

170-171 from implo is pretty decent, maybe pinged a little at how he dissected ben's posting

as widely noted isis's 175 is bad, the reasoning in it is just bizarre

on flipthrough of penguin's iso there's just not as much as i'd like to see from him

criticism of isis from skitter in 218 is valid, don't know about townread of ben, that post seems like nothing to me

220 from isis is vaguely town for reaction to being pushed by skitter

264 bit lost from notscience is an okay sentiment as not much in those pages stands out as AI

really hate 293 from aaronfrost, fencesits on isis

secret hydra spam starting from 318 is unimpressive

vaguely townlean ben's 358 as question about townreads on penguinis good and agreement with infinity is fine

strength of implo's townread on penguin in 369 makes no sense

scipio's 373 and 374 feels kind of artificial, but maybe a newer player would see everyone as townie

i really like datisi's 377

infinity's vote in 378 is almost townie for how he justifies it on wagon composition where i'd expect scum to be more cautious

scipio's 385 town for concern

really hate pp's ben vote in 393

end of 439 by notscience i don't like that much

like datisi's aaronfrost vote in 476 as i was feeling the same thing, reasoning in 483 i agree with

notty's vote on schiavetto in 489 is lazy, just seems to be on an inactive player

schiavetto's 495 is...okay

notsci questioning implo in 510 is okay

point on schiavetto's timing in 511 is fine but disagree with the view on datisi

still a little puzzled at strength of implo's read on penguin

ben doing newbie hydra tell in 519??

kind of don't like the "idk where to vote" from bridgeburners in 559

penguin exchange with isis from 620-625 looks towny

kinda of like isis on page 25

681 - datisi is extremely gettin nightkilled

don't really like inplo 737-738

762 from bridgeburners can be a townpost?

774 from implo says what i am thinking

814 from ico feels townie, the way he expresses diagreement with isis

don't try to tell me how i'm supposed to think

this post / posts around this one kinda feel like fake anger tbh

hmmmmm...

maybe it's my tired brain saying de shit

- hYdra

[seCret hYdra]

VOTE: bridgeburners

would love to try and get done with trying to see what's bridge tbh

and off to sleep, sorry y'all

- hYdra

[petapan]

how does that vote follow 2655

[petapan]

everything? give me an elaboration of like, idk, the thing you found most townie?

the flipflopping on bridgeburners feels real, like he's changing his mind, i don't think he tries to push against secret hydra as scum off the shirou flip, he's like the only one actually going through and looking at shirou's posts and trying to draw conclusions from him, and i think the thought process in 2578 is really town from him, the way he's actually gauging implo's response is like, it doesn't feel like he's justtring to add momentum it all add up to him actively scumhunting today way more than most people

[Bridgeburners]

VOTE: bridgeburners

would love to try and get done with trying to see what's bridge tbh

and off to sleep, sorry y'all

- hYdra

Uh hi .....

Why are you voting me exactly?

[Bridgeburners]

what about today playing out is making you doubt it further?

Gamestate is dead and it feels like scum have no incentive to do anything, and are just letting current wagon build

And on a similar note: why are we a wagon exactly ?

~ skitteR

[Isis]

off the top of my head, bridgeburners has:

Mena having this weird PR conversation in the PT that sounded like it actually happened in a mafia pt
scum indicative hydra dissonance, with Mena overriding skitter's decision to unvote me because they had a conversation about how convenient it is to push me, which can change based on post's Mena sees that skitter hasn't seen yet, instead of a conversation about me being town, which changes less (iirc I didn't have that many posts, and also skitter has a better record for reading me)
Really awful voting record all game that's a little BoPish
Awful push on peta and in hindsight vanity wagoning peta while town picked between dueling town wagons is a xanatos gambit, if implo is town and S_S is town, which is exceedingly possible. Extra exceedingly possible if implo or S_S are just SK so it works the same from BB perspective
skitter feeling like she's playing around me instead of playing against me, all game, which is kind of just a vibe.

and, the single most important thing and maybe the most AI thing to happen all game is the weird delayed omgus thing Menalque did that Infinity highlighted. That is on its own a strong case for a lim.

[Isis]

2 pedits

[Isis]

The way peta is pointing out that he did pre-role PM reads that are being called fake and how that's a bulletproof defense and BB giving no ground is just, super weird, and it's like BB cares way way too much about showing no weakness or having any vulnerability.

There's like this total lack of empathy. If you ever read a game before repping in, and get an analysis based read that's harder to develop if you have a scum role PM, why would you ever not post it? You'd always post it. It's either a solve, or it's the best fake townspew you could possibly have available. You'd have to posit that petapan didn't actually read pre-repin, which BB has never actually posited. In fact BB never really directly engages with peta's point and talks past him over and over again and talkpast is extremely scumindicative for my conception of skitter (and most of the time it will just win her the game anyway)

[Isis]

Mena is the townier head by far if i like put my thumb over the really really damning delayed omgus post

[Isis]

infinity tell me the scummiest post in my iso

[Infinity 324]

I vaguely remember skimming a newbie a year ago or something and thinking Schiavetto's play looked soft so that's amplifying the read. I don't think I'm unjustified for townbinning Schiavetto off the post anyway, in a vacuum, though. Some of the runners up had minor scumpings offsetting the things I liked about them which might rig things in Schiavetto's favor for having fewer posts but cest la vie

Off the top of my head, this one

[Bridgeburners]

- we have a very large hydra pt that is where the vig discussion happened (kinda died over the past couple of days since mean disappeared, but eh). i'm not sure why you think it's more likely that that convo happened in a mafia pt over a hydra pt, esp. since the consensus seems to be that there isn't daytalk ...

- mena didn't always run all the votes by me, this is true, but i'm not sure why this is scum-indicative and not indictive of mena being impulsive. after people complained i have tried to make a conscious effort to at least by un-dissonant on actual votes (well until today when mena hasn't been around at all and i wouldn't be voting at all if i waited for that)
(aside i also think i'd be a lot more on top of our votes and making sure mena's aligned with my overall trajectory of the slot as scum)

- kinda silly to accuse me of 'really awful voting record all game' / bop when most of the slots who have been wagons / we've voted haven't flipped yet. (like, how do you know i've been wrong exactly) pooky was more because of deadline and not liking the other wagons than anything else (until he started doing the ate thing, that became real). what else don't you like about our voting record ?

- isis. i don't vote day1 wagons taht i don't like. i'm kinda baffled that you're spinning that into something scum-indicative. it would have been the easiest thing in the world to hop onto like any of {ss, implo, aff earlier} if i were scum and wanted to take the easy flip

- and you're not really posting things that are easy for me to interact with? and you're being exceedingly weird this game, and i'm p sure you know that, so i'm not sure why this is on me and not on you

- idk what the dealyed omgus thing (and i didn't do it apparently) so i don't have a response to that one

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

The way peta is pointing out that he did pre-role PM reads that are being called fake and how that's a bulletproof defense and BB giving no ground is just, super weird, and it's like BB cares way way too much about showing no weakness or having any vulnerability.

There's like this total lack of empathy. If you ever read a game before repping in, and get an analysis based read that's harder to develop if you have a scum role PM, why would you ever not post it? You'd always post it. It's either a solve, or it's the best fake townspew you could possibly have available. You'd have to posit that petapan didn't actually read pre-repin, which BB has never actually posited. In fact BB never really directly engages with peta's point and talks past him over and over again and talkpast is extremely scumindicative for my conception of skitter (and most of the time it will just win her the game anyway)

i backed off upon him showing the pre-role pm notes ???

[Bridgeburners]

i also feel like i engaged with his points? like ...

[petapan]

i'm going to take a look at the particularities of shirou's interactions with implosion b/c that was a thing that came up

1112 is jokey comment about implo "slipping" by not mentioning a game he was drafted as scum, not that it would really matter. i don't think anything of this post, can see that kind of banter

1131 and 1132 are complimenting implo's posts as being "objectively good" but saying the town points he can give out for them are limited

in his first readslist 1143 though he says implo is in a group where he suggests at least one must be scum along with aaron and datisi

1147 is where he tells implosion he has oo many town reads, i don't know, does he talk to a partner that way, that seems weird to me, but it's also a very strange trajectory where he seemed to be complimenting implo's posts but then calling him a suspect

this line in 1169 - "Implosion chance of being scum drastically increases if Datisi/Aaron is town. I'm not town clearing his slot yet without more confidence on him being town via dayplay." like is that a partner read? uuuuugh

1182 - "It's a similar enough case to implosion, I do like some of implosion posts, but I also think it would make sense for him to be scum at the moment." or this?

in 1186 he again repeats the "limit to saying objectively good things" point

i would add that, shit like his reads in 1189 are coatedin doubletalk, it's impossible to pin down a concrete stance on most people from him and that was probably the point from him

1220/1262

1354 - "I don't want to defend implo here and risk him flipping scum/it blowing in my face" eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegh, does he defend a patner this way? it doesn't feel like it, to me

1367 - "why are people saying SS is scummy but benching to implosion" - he's really trying to get the vote on something_smart here, like you could say he's trying to save a partner as the ounterwagon but also he might have just wanted the day 1 tracker yeet which is high value

1464 - "I'm gonna say I'm rather lazy sheeping people on Schivi, I don't think they are that towny" as a pure aside, i noticed this read combing through and it kind of gives me the creeps. i feel like notscience's vote on schiavetto is anti-partnery, though

1651/1652/1655 - again he's voting s_s but at the point not

really

arguing to save implo, does it seem like he cares? to me it seems like he doesn't. he acknowledges it's likely to go through but doesn't really make any argument about it either way.

1693 but now he's fighting hardcore against the implosion wagon based on misinterpreting a post isis made about how s_s has to be town (and that whole thing probably points to isis-town)

1695 the aggression here actually suddenly does seem like it could be a partner defense, the way he's threatening people not to vote implo, like if you're going to go balls to the wall this is the way to do it

like, i don't know. if you forced me to guess i'd say this stuff does not look like teammates but you could tell me that it is and i wouldn't really be surprised. this is why i said i'm not really trying to read into shirou interactions beyond, like, the level 0 stuff of thinking s_s and secret hydra are town (or non-groupscum), because what i can go through is really a goddamn mess. i just want to guess at people off how they're playing individually. i'm not trying to dissuade anyone else from looking into things and drawing conclusions but i don't feel confident making a read based on this stuff (i probably should look at this from implo's end, too, just for sanity's sake)

notscience is probably better for that because he's much less calculated but he also was very limited in his output

[petapan]

i hate to make a big post that ends with effectively a shrug emoji but i feel the need to explain why i feel like that way lies madness for trying to read into shirou too much

i also want to note that since implo made that apathy post on being voted, he is about to hit prod timer, i know he said he didn't have time but that honestly feels +scum for him?

[Bridgeburners]

shirou has a really, really good scumgame and is good at screwing with associatives, so he's probably not the best to try to read in that way tbh

on a related note i had looked at notsci's iso earlier and this is what i had come up (i had forgotten i had done this) with so uh maybe let's UNVOTE:
(namely that notsci's vote on him didn't look partner-y)

i think (?) notscience's iso is +town for schiavetto

also ss result?

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

notscience is not even actually a low-poster/inactive, he just said he was going to be, then he's had standard activity. I thought it was weird. I guess the only scenario where it's scummy weird is when notscience has posted in a scum PT that he's gonna self impose a limit and gets to lurk but don't worry he'd prob do it as town too.
It's not super characterizable but it's super weird! like notsci feels high content to me. Though I don't remember much of the content so he's probably scum

also i just saw this post and thought it was of note so i am requoting it here

~ skitteR

[Bridgeburners]

actually from notsci some other anti-partner-y vibes to some degree or another:
- dats
- scipio (peta)
- sechyd
- schiavetto

(none of these are like super strong, but are of note)

i do think he had a weird associative with isis tho