Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[VP Baltar]

I thought of a way to make this real easy for you, VP.

GC also felt a bit townie, but the aggression on both sides of that dispute makes me suspicious.

Makes you suspicious of what exactly?

Let me be more to-the-point. Are you saying you're suspicious of us both being scum? If that's what this means then that's the answer to my question, and I don't understand your aversion to having that on record in your ISO. Otherwise I have no idea what you're getting at and I need an explanation.

This is literally from 30 or so pages ago. Are you asking me if I think you both could be scum now or then?

When I wrote it, I was saying that the aggression coming from each of you pinged me because it was so heightened for early game. As I said the first time you asked me this, the question for me was whether the aggression you guys were putting out was real or manufactured, and if the latter, who was manufacturing it? This was all in the answer you got originally and I don't know what you are confused about.

You're being similarly aggressive throughout this line of questioning. Saying things like "you probably don't want this in your ISO", when you're just having me repeat the same fucking answer you got on page 14.

[VP Baltar]

Let me make something clear: you are the one putting emphasis on the "caught". I said I caught them online like how you catch the last half of your favourite movie on Showtime, or when you tell a friend you'll catch 'em later. For some reason you are latching onto that detail and running a mile with it, making it out like I claimed to have caught Al Capone.

Lol oh really.

Here is the heart of your statement in Post 989.

[Elements] fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it.

You write several sentences about this fight with elements and how you had him on the ropes, and WHY OH WHY DIDN'T VP CONSIDER THAT WHEN HE TALKED TO RTP!!!!!

To now say, after I spent a bunch of time looking back at this, that you were actually just telling a friend "catch you later", is complete garbage.

I'm not going to wall war you, so this is the last thing I'm saying on this topic, but you are either tunneled so far up your own ass you won't be seeing daylight until 2050, or your scum who thinks you're going to score cheap points off someone. Either way, you look pretty useless.

[VP Baltar]

I continued to try to directly engage Elements and eventually tried to rally for pressure votes. There is only so much you can do on an online forum to get someone's attention. I didn't have any sort of big angry emotional post or anything because I was trying to get them to respond, not scare them out of the thread. But it was extremely frustrating to me in the moment.

Last thing I'll say on this, is this is a hilarious walkback after I pressed you for the actual specifics -- like I asked you for the posts -- you said I missed.

Hell, I even said to you I might have missed something!

But when asked what I should have saw beyond a post where you said "elements, post 225", you tell me you didn't actually have any big angry posts I should have seen because you didn't want to scare them out of the thread.


*Farting noises commence*

[VP Baltar]

Spoiler:

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

See 225, Elements.

You're saying this post is where you "caught" elements lurking?

"Absent" implies absolutely nothing except that they were not posting. This could be lurking, real life issues, whatever. But there was never any ambiguity about their absence. They fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it. If you're willing to throw out a completely uninformed comment like that, then I cannot trust any other stances you take, minor as it may be. From the rest of your posting, though, and the way you approached RTP in that one post, I would much sooner believe that an unsubstantiated claim like that comes from scum trying to shake things up rather than town who simply missed 100% of the context around another slot and still chose to comment on it anyway.

I honestly don't remember you "catching" elements lurking or whatever. I'll be real with you though: you write a lot of words to say very little, so it's possible I skimmed some bullshit from you that looked boring. My bad.

If you'd like to reiterate your elements case, I'm listening.

This is all mis-representation of what Duchess was saying and then completely ignoring Duchess' responses where his points are disproved. He just keeps of with the same line of thought that's just not true.

Oh this is fascinating. I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

Duchess' posts are a fucking incoherent mess. Without quoting duchess, I would like you to please tell me the nature of the argument duchess is making and what I'm ignoring about it. I want to see you state this originally, since you say it is very clear.

Btw, elements, the longer you take to answer this, the more likely you are scum

[Datisi]

i dislike 966 (yeah yeah i know what's new) because i'm p sure rtp did indeed answer those q's before
man this sounds tunnelly

i am interested in
@italiano, do you have a read on me here yet? also like, any opinion/change on lotus/rtp?

Reformed Toxic Player - Main reservation here is the point I made about laughing off a considerable goof, and that RTP is a good scum player. I will say that their play this game seems less chaos making and more trying to actually solve the game, which gives me town vibes. I'm still trying to sort how much of that I'm feeling based on the changed playstyle.

while i get your logic behind their reaction to the goof, i don't think it's *that* strong of a point against them. i'm kinda wondering if you had any thoughts on me/rtp convo that happened yesterday? i.e., what do you think of the points i raised against them?

except when masons have an ego trip and fos me for fosing them...

is this @ me

VOTE: Elements
Not a fan of RTP wagon

s'there any reasoning for these

and now the site decides to not work properly and take 2 minutes to load stuff, that is nice

the vibe i'm getting from duchess' 989 is town who gets super fixated on things that are important to them, then gets frustrated when other people don't see it that way / don't pay attention to same details and mistake that for scum

my one worry was that the timing of this is oddly opportunistic, but on second thought i'm not quite on that being the case considering their absence and the fact they're replying to an older post

I'd really like to hear from Harumi

this feels... kinda random? like harumi hasn't picked up their prod i'm p sure. anything prompt this?

posting this now bc barely made it to bottom of pg 40 and my eyes are glazing over
also baltar is online and i'd like to hear the answer to the rtp bit above while he's still here

[Elements]

Spoiler:

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

See 225, Elements.

You're saying this post is where you "caught" elements lurking?

"Absent" implies absolutely nothing except that they were not posting. This could be lurking, real life issues, whatever. But there was never any ambiguity about their absence. They fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it. If you're willing to throw out a completely uninformed comment like that, then I cannot trust any other stances you take, minor as it may be. From the rest of your posting, though, and the way you approached RTP in that one post, I would much sooner believe that an unsubstantiated claim like that comes from scum trying to shake things up rather than town who simply missed 100% of the context around another slot and still chose to comment on it anyway.

I honestly don't remember you "catching" elements lurking or whatever. I'll be real with you though: you write a lot of words to say very little, so it's possible I skimmed some bullshit from you that looked boring. My bad.

If you'd like to reiterate your elements case, I'm listening.

This is all mis-representation of what Duchess was saying and then completely ignoring Duchess' responses where his points are disproved. He just keeps of with the same line of thought that's just not true.

Oh this is fascinating. I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

Duchess' posts are a fucking incoherent mess. Without quoting duchess, I would like you to please tell me the nature of the argument duchess is making and what I'm ignoring about it. I want to see you state this originally, since you say it is very clear.

Btw, elements, the longer you take to answer this, the more likely you are scum

lol
in that case im not answering

[VP Baltar]

my one worry was that the timing of this is oddly opportunistic, but on second thought i'm not quite on that being the case considering their absence and the fact they're replying to an older post

I looked into this. Duchess's post was only a couple posts before they disappeared, so it is pretty close to picking up where they left off.

As much as I'm annoyed by Duchess here, the evidence does favor tunneling town.

[VP Baltar]

lol
in that case im not answering

Lol hilarious

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, let me reread your exchanges with RTP again.

My sense the first time through was that they felt like fair questions, but I also didn't find RTP super scummy in the exchange. There was one in particular I remember having a thought about, but I didn't post it because it would have given RTP a potential answer. Let me see if that comes back to me on reread after I feed my cats.

[Datisi]

page 33 is boring. why are VD and Datisi arguing? is one pushing a case on the other? Both? please advise (with something interesting).

i'm arguing w him bc i think he has a good chance of being scum and i don't like when people evade / shade me without concrete thoughts?

i kinda like where green's coming from in 1012, though i disagree w it. like sure, a flip by that post itself isn't that likely, but it casts shade on two people townreading each other (which, if they're correct, is obviously a problem for scums), and i have a feeling it undermines each other's defense. hm. am i seeing red in places i shouldn't be?

can i get shotgun reads from you next time you're here?

...thonk on 1020.
UNVOTE:
i don't know if i feel this right now.

Datisi does have precedence to be voting there looking at his interactions with RTP. I do still find it strange how he followed VPB to RTP and doing the same thing before following VPB onto Dunn.

"strange" is a meaningless word here. do you conclude anything from it?

i've been staring at the last ~15 posts for way too goddamn long

elements, do you mind answering that?

[Datisi]

Let me see if that comes back to me on reread after I feed my cats.

how many pets do you have?

[VP Baltar]

Let me see if that comes back to me on reread after I feed my cats.

how many pets do you have?

Three cats and a dog!

[Elements]

elements, do you mind answering that?

the thing I said I wouldn't?

[Datisi]

aww.

@elements: ...yes?

[OutWorldER]

maxwell replaces Harumi Ayasato

[maxwell]

Hello. Haven't read, doing so now. Might take a little bit.

[VP Baltar]

Ok Datisi, couple things I see out of this exchange. You asked RTP how they felt about Italiano, which makes a lot of sense to me given your scum read there.

In reply, RTP said:

It's a sort of energy thing - the way they are playing does not come off as informed to me. Idk if you have noted by now but I tend to have pretty strong and accurate reads on LHF slots, like italiano, wrt reading how their bumbling around is. I think they are genuine and also combined with how their energy felt when we rolled scum together - I think that is towny. If I have to eat crow so be it - i do think an investigative is worth using on that slot. That combined with the fact I have a team read atm that I feel looks like... it fits? so far makes me confident rn

Which felt genuine to me. The part that really resonated with me is RTP being able to pick out the low hanging fruit players. I recall seeing them do that in other games, where they just go against the grain if someone is pushing a weak player. Does that make them right? I don't know, but it is a thing they do, so that response came across as genuine to me.

You obviously wanted more specifics than that and didn't get them, but it didn't strike me as scummy.


The other thing that stuck out to me was your Q on your own early play:

where/how did my early play feel agenda-y?

This I almost replied to because I had the same gut reaction to your early play, and it was hard to quantify. It didn't seem as engaged as usual (though I know you are in a lot of games, which is probably why I wrote it off early). Like, if forced, I could probably go back and figure out specific posts that triggered that feeling, but offhand I can't. It was just a vibe. So RTP saying that also didn't strike me as scummy, but mainly because I felt similarly ambivalent about your play early on. I alluded to this when I said I had a town read on andres (which admittedly was in part to see your reax).

[VP Baltar]

Hello. Haven't read, doing so now. Might take a little bit.

Thanks for replacing in!

[Green Crayons]

why do you townread elements?

not sure where you get that i'm townreading elements, but i think on balance his play points away from scum

kiiiinda elements but more like not seeing a reason why he's scum bc his play here is pretty spot on with prior town games; so not really town points but more like the absence of scum points

I'd argue your play here much more closely resembles your depiction of your scum-meta than your town-meta. One might suggest you put in lots of effort early, until you realised you could get away with less.

Agree with this take-away about Element's play aligning with self-proclaimed scum meta.

Would Elements!scum knowingly do that to make himself less suspicious by purposefully framing himself as more suspicious?

Anything's possible I suppose. But it relies on some hopes and contingencies that scum might not want to trust. But also is town really going to go "ah hah, you have outted yourself as scum via meta, let's elim!" Prob not. Teeny tiny town points for Elements.

[Green Crayons]

GC, who are your townreads outside of elements btw?

midway, andres, Baltar, RL. I think elements is on the town side of the ledger for reasons ID'd above. BM had a great entrance with burst of activity + bringing thegame back to life, which also suggests town.

[Green Crayons]

I still don't like VPB's vote there, because it seems to be a repeating pattern in how he has been playing.

I'm going to go back and pick up from 35 after I catch up with these last few pages, so I'm quoting this to remind myself to pick up this line of convo.

[Green Crayons]

he has a good chance of being scum

is this because of VD's defeatism/ATE or something else? link me if you've already made this point before, sorry in advance

[Green Crayons]

can i get shotgun reads from you next time you're here?

GC, who are your townreads outside of elements btw?

midway, andres, Baltar, RL. I think elements is on the town side of the ledger for reasons ID'd above. BM had a great entrance with burst of activity + bringing thegame back to life, which also suggests town.

Oh I forgot VD. I'm thinking town side of the ledger.


I'd be okay with eliminating Harumi/maxwell, RTP, Dunn.................. maybe duchess but i have been avoiding that read bc I was not having fun with this game when that was happening

[Reformed Toxic Player]

why do you townread elements?

not sure where you get that i'm townreading elements, but i think on balance his play points away from scum

kiiiinda elements but more like not seeing a reason why he's scum bc his play here is pretty spot on with prior town games; so not really town points but more like the absence of scum points

I'd argue your play here much more closely resembles your depiction of your scum-meta than your town-meta. One might suggest you put in lots of effort early, until you realised you could get away with less.

Agree with this take-away about Element's play aligning with self-proclaimed scum meta.

Would Elements!scum knowingly do that to make himself less suspicious by purposefully framing himself as more suspicious?

Anything's possible I suppose. But it relies on some hopes and contingencies that scum might not want to trust. But also is town really going to go "ah hah, you have outted yourself as scum via meta, let's elim!" Prob not. Teeny tiny town points for Elements.

yup i know. He's ur partner lmfao

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Ur stuck on this like null read bc u dont wanna be forced to vote them or take a stance on them

You having me somehow below them is also funny - what cause i fos you?

Wild.