Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[geraintm]

hello all. think ive played with a few of you recently?
anways it is the 20th today, month is just flying by

[geraintm]

I'm semi-outed, the only person on this list who would know me who doesn't (I think) already know this alt is bugspray. Hi bugspray!

If I need to out for bugspray sanity I will, idc, this isn't a very secretive alt tbh

This post is very vote worthy
VOTE: entrapta

[geraintm]

i voted gera bc his entrance was actually weird. like, why is he talking about it being the 20th lmao, if i had to rank that rvs post on a stilted/natural scale of 1 to 300, with 1 being as stilted as stilts, and 300 being as natural as aloe vera, i'd say his post was a solid 40.

off

. and no rvs vote lends to that num btw. anyway that's my only sus so far

I like that you are so weirded out by me....

[geraintm]

about 75%+ sure there is scum in Gretchen/Entreprena, and like 55 they're both scum, which is greater than a coinflip. Normally by page 7 im at like a 10er max

My godni know I'm going to dislike you this game already

[geraintm]

geeera i like that you like that i'm weirded out by you. why's that entrapta post vote worthy?

I have....reasons

[geraintm]

geeera i like that you like that i'm weirded out by you. why's that entrapta post vote worthy?

I have....reasons

Then say them lol

Guess I'm supposed to hold stealth status with people? Like wtf?

I dont normally like to reveal my uber secret scum hunting techniques....but 12 +20=32

[geraintm]

gerain

Explain using your words lol

I have zero idea what you have linked to.
In my 1st post I said 20th. I voted for whoever posted the 20th post after mine. Its how I do all my random votes

[geraintm]

Yeah that was a secret crumb of how I wanted to vote you but clicked the wiki button instead

VOTE: geraintm uhh maybe it's time for you to do a real vote today champ

You are seriously voting for me because you think my method of randomly voting, which I do in every game, is scummy?
I just want to check i have that totally correct....

[geraintm]

No before I just wanted you to just vote someone that you think is scum, but NOW I think you're scummy

I dontbthink anyone is scum yet. By that I mean I have nothing to go on and how can anyone possibly think anyone is scum at this stage of the game? I am an advocate for no lynching day 1 because the chances of hitting scum are just so small, why give scum a free elimination

(I say this just having come from a game where scum was eliminated day 1, but instand by my comment).

[geraintm]

about 75%+ sure there is scum in Gretchen/Entreprena, and like 55 they're both scum, which is greater than a coinflip. Normally by page 7 im at like a 10er max

My godni know I'm going to dislike you this game already

Nah, you love me

Well, you I might, but anyone saying something like they are 75% sure they have found scum i am not going to get on with in game

[geraintm]

I want you to give a full detailed Null list then, indicating just how null you rank each of your nulls on a scale of null to null then

Of you insist

AliceK
Amélie
April Ludgate
bugspray
clidd
DrippingGoofball
Entrapta
Gretchen
HypoSoc
MiniMegabyte
RLotus
Ydrasse

[geraintm]

AliceK
Amélie
April Ludgate
bugspray
clidd
DrippingGoofball
Entrapta
Gretchen
HypoSoc
MiniMegabyte
RLotus
Ydrasse

I love that you actually took the time to alphabetize it lmao

If im going to troll, gotta do it right.
Glad you appreciated the effort

[geraintm]

UNVOTE: Gretchen

Don't like that wagon

VOTE: Entrapta

you post too much
and i don't understand this switch

[geraintm]

So, just a quick sanity check.

As far as I can tell, claiming D4 Innocent Child is not a good move for scum. Unless they have good reason to believe they could secure their victory before then, it just means that, should they be lying, they are guaranteeing their elimination on day 4. Even if they manage to throw everyone off for a few actions, it's not like they would be faking cop, so the damage they could do from everyone assuming they are town is limited.

Playing Devil's advocate for myself, why would scum choose to do that? The only reasons I could think of is if they were trying to Doctor bait. Perhaps a Reflexive Watcher Scum (or a Scum with a Watcher partner) might claim IC if they felt finding a doctor was worth sacrificing themselves... which seems like a really bad trade to me. Also, it feels like a super specific circumstance.

As for why Town might lie about it, it would be trying to NK bait... because they are a bulletproof reflexive watcher or a paranoid gun owner? That also feels like a stretch, if slightly less of one, since those trades would be worth it.

So, my conclusion is that April is Town, even if they are lying about being a D4 IC (which I think is unlikely). Like, if they had claimed to be a Day 6 Innocent Child, I would be insanely suspicious, but for Day 4... It feels like they are trying to turn their time locked IC status into an effective IC role.

Is there anything wrong with my analysis? If not, I'm prepared to treat April as effectively an Innocent Child unless/until it is officially proven.

If all of this is super obvious to everyone, I apologize. I'm mostly working through my own thoughts here.

i was so confused by this post.
first, i dont remember anyone of this name in the game.
second, i couldn't work out why this huge long analysis of someone's claim.
like, i didn't remember any claims, i had to go back and trawl and find it.
and then i just went "huh, i basically treat day 1 as pointless, doesn't everyone, and someone making a joke claim requiring this amount of effort to respond to....some people have way more time on their hands than me".

i just have the whole post from hypo as someone earnestly trying to look useful when they really, really want to be seen as contributing.

[geraintm]

i see it the same way, but that it's coming from a town pov

let's just say i saw it as distraction, not really advancing today (like the complaint about the alts)

[geraintm]

VOTE: Da Dude

the game has gone from 5 pages of post a night to 5 posts.
this doesn't look a random vote?

[geraintm]

VOTE: dadude

thought about entrapta a bit instead of actually posting here last night

e-1

i just shouted at dripping goofball for placing a vote with zero explanation, and then you go and do the exact same thing.
you clearly have a reason.

Just glad not_mafia is the mod and not playing

[geraintm]

Although, that Idris Elba vote got some stank on it

i don't understand this?

i just realised my random vote was on the big wagonUNVOTE:

[geraintm]

I'm tinfoilin' a Geraint, Amelie, Da Dude team right now, but i think it almost makes too much sense

sorry, am i right in thinking you have me, amelie and da dude as a scum team? what on earth have i done to appear scummy?

Although, that Idris Elba vote got some stank on it

i don't understand this?

i just realised my random vote was on the big wagonUNVOTE:

I feel like...like scum would try to act more clueless? Does anyone know, er...does anyone know if geraint is the type of person to feign ignorance as scum?

what do you think i am being clueless about? April mentioned Idris Elba's vote, and there is no one in the game with that name but is that an Alt that everyone else knows that i don't?
I can confirm i am always clueless.

Are people taking Aprils claim as serious? I am treating it as a joke

@ rlotus post 392 - i can't work out if you think there is merit in eliminating da dude to get info on the people on the wagon? April seem's to think so.

[geraintm]

@ rlotus post 392 - i can't work out if you think there is merit in eliminating da dude to get info on the people on the wagon? April seem's to think so.

april+lotus scum?

someone coming in and agreeing with a theory will cause me to sit up and pay attention

[geraintm]

Does nobody understand the concept of tinfoil...?

No, you are not correct in thinking that

I'm sorry for being dim.
What do you mean?

[geraintm]

I’m just throwing an idea out there, i don’t even know if i believe it, but i see no harm in noting i had that idea, even if it’s only for me to look at earlier in the game if things start lining up towards it.

I like to think about every single possibility in a game, reads be damned

ah ok, gotcha you just want to throw out everyone could be guilty so later on you can say "I was right".
makes sense

[geraintm]

that is the surface level intake of it, sure!

but there's much more to it, and my town track record as of late shows it so

i am very on the surface

[geraintm]

Hello klick.
I dont have anything of substance to say. No one screams scum. No one is making especially objectionable votes. Alicek has gone silent. They were pushing da dude earlier and since they turned up hasnt said anything. Thats all I've noticed the last day

[geraintm]

Sup

Vote Da Dude.

Is this a vote, or you telling them to vote for them?

[geraintm]

We still have time.

I don't intend to change the elimination, but I want to see more opinions.

noting this post as interesting

@minimegabyte post 487
an interesting list.
i can see how people in game can put people as townie, but i am struggling how anyone can push people towards scum. are there any tiers on this list?
(BTW, CLidd excellent job on appearing town, everyone loves your posts)

Really? That's an interesting read. You have April at the very bottom.

are you reading the list in the wrong order?

If you all want to eliminate Da Dude go ahead but I won’t be on the wagon

noting this as potentially interesting, it is very similar to clidd above

VOTE: april ludgate

?

VOTE: April

Okay, just fade me

i dont feel like arguing, just follow what my lead later

??????
Anyone who has played with April before, is this at all in character?

[geraintm]

So, just a quick sanity check.

As far as I can tell, claiming D4 Innocent Child is not a good move for scum. Unless they have good reason to believe they could secure their victory before then, it just means that, should they be lying, they are guaranteeing their elimination on day 4. Even if they manage to throw everyone off for a few actions, it's not like they would be faking cop, so the damage they could do from everyone assuming they are town is limited.

Playing Devil's advocate for myself, why would scum choose to do that? The only reasons I could think of is if they were trying to Doctor bait. Perhaps a Reflexive Watcher Scum (or a Scum with a Watcher partner) might claim IC if they felt finding a doctor was worth sacrificing themselves... which seems like a really bad trade to me. Also, it feels like a super specific circumstance.

As for why Town might lie about it, it would be trying to NK bait... because they are a bulletproof reflexive watcher or a paranoid gun owner? That also feels like a stretch, if slightly less of one, since those trades would be worth it.

So, my conclusion is that April is Town, even if they are lying about being a D4 IC (which I think is unlikely). Like, if they had claimed to be a Day 6 Innocent Child, I would be insanely suspicious, but for Day 4... It feels like they are trying to turn their time locked IC status into an effective IC role.

Is there anything wrong with my analysis? If not, I'm prepared to treat April as effectively an Innocent Child unless/until it is officially proven.

If all of this is super obvious to everyone, I apologize. I'm mostly working through my own thoughts here.

What is this

got there way before you on this. check out my post 312
why you wanna eliminate me though??

[geraintm]

Although, that Idris Elba vote got some stank on it

i don't understand this?

i just realised my random vote was on the big wagonUNVOTE:

I feel like...like scum would try to act more clueless? Does anyone know, er...does anyone know if geraint is the type of person to feign ignorance as scum?

oh shit I missed this
hmm. Still not really a big fan of geraintm from before that but not as convinced

it was only a gap of like 9 posts though? do not underestimate my cluelessness. im fairly sure i've asked 2 or 3 other dumb questions in this game that show how invested i am in day 1

[geraintm]

Da Dude is being replaced.

Hmm, likely because slot is doomed.

Is it? Everyone left the wagon because "the wagon was going too fast" LOL

That's a fallacy. It assumes that the Mafia is stacking votes and doesn't vote each other

alicek what do yout hink of my theory that it was a scumdriven wagon and the lack of apparent counterwagons for over 24h incidicates scum is unwilling to create another one? we can easily occamrazor them being unable to away because at this point of the game that's not very difficult

So you think likely scum in April Ludgate, Gretchen, Drippinggoofball, Klick (Ydrasse)?

@ gretchen - i still don't think anyone ever explained the idris elba thing to me

[geraintm]

I've just had to actually read up what an innocent child is (i don't think I've ever played with one and I wanted to check exactly what it was).
I just assumed it was a joke, but you are all treating it as real.

I plan to ignore it until day 4, until then it just isn't important.

J had to do all this because klick just went off on one and I wanted a reason to ignore it

[geraintm]

Sorry for not really posting over the weekend, there was just nothing much to respond to and i couldn't find the motivation to just post for the sake of it.
Today feels so very meh, no one to me feels like they are obvious scum and anyone who is claiming otherwise i feel is faking their level of confidence. wherever town ends up feels like it is going to be a poor elimination with little likelihood of hitting scum. Dannflor has come in and done their best to look townie, but they've got nothing to work with. Klick does seem really eager to spread their votes around though.

[geraintm]

i want to policy elim clidd

why?
is it because

{bugspray}

{geraintm} {Klick} {April Ludgate}

{Amélie} {MiniMegabyte}

{DrippingGoofball}

{RLotus}

↓

{AliceK}

{Gretchen}

{Dannflor} {HypoSoc}

yet

VOTE: AliceK

[geraintm]

he has certainly appeared to have been noticeably weird for no obvious reason

[geraintm]

he has certainly appeared to have been noticeably weird for no obvious reason

And what do you conclude of the "acting weird" in ai terms?

its day 1, i don't conclude anything. but it is a data point for later.

[geraintm]

Dannflor has come in and done their best to look townie, but they've got nothing to work with. Klick does seem really eager to spread their votes around though.

geriantm can you explain further what you mean here? Are you scum reading Klick for this? Town reading me? I'm having trouble getting a grasp on what your stances are in this game because a lot of your posts feel like just straight up observations

Klick voted clidd, dripping goodwill, April and clidd. Wants to vote me too. They give me the impression of someone trying to start many wagons and their votes not holding up (like saying they think clidd is scum, but saying they don't want to vote for them, meandering elsewhere and then coming back to clidd).
I am not saying scum, I never do day 1 because only scum know scum kn day 1, but I will point out people who's voting patterns I dont like.

You, I'm not scum reading you, I'm nkt town reading you. I was just trying to say since your entrance you've done what you can from a crappy position.

Day 1 I am all about observations, I am on record for hating day 1 and wishing we could all skip it

[geraintm]

At first I got scum feeling from HypoSoc in the way he was trusting in April's claim, because I thought it was clear that it wasn't a serious claim. It was as if he is scum that knows April is town. Then, several other people seemed to be taking April's claim seriously, so maybe not out of the ordinary after all? He is now doubling down on believing the claim, so maybe it is just scum.

I take all role claims seriously. If you make a non serious role claim, I'd call for a policy elimination.

i do, i take them at face value and beleive them and end game, if people have lied (can't remember who it in my last game, but someone in town managed to out the mason team through a fake claim) i will just hate them the rest of the game and tell them so at the end of the game.
i am like...90% to just eliminate liars because they need to be taught but sometimes you shouldn't.

this game, i just didn't take it seriously. it felt like a throw away, so unbelievable i didnt waste any time on it. until everyone else did. then i had to expand mental energy.

i am like 85% sure this claim isn't real. i don't know what that actually means for the slot though but it can be parked for a few days at least. it certainly does not change how i intereact with them until then.

@ Dann - i think i said earlier that i thought you had done the best you could replacing into the game considering the posistion you were in, but man...3 votes on one page on 3 different people looks bad. why must you do things like that?

you vote Rlotus for no obvious reason.
half an hour later you provide a reads list, rlotus is high in it and you vote someone else
half an hour later you vote for someone else who you had in your 2nd towniest tier?

and then later you vote someone else

you dont look good from where i am sitting.

April later goes off on a "woe is me" cycle and starts plannign their funeral. i can't work out if it is an act.

[geraintm]

UNVOTE: AliceK

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

I dont understand the point of this.

[geraintm]

i get the vibe tprs are gonna be badass this game =]

Tprs?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Gretchen

And even less this

[geraintm]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

buspray
Amelie
--
Klick
Mini
--
April
Da Dude
--
AliceK
Hyposoc
clidd
geraintm
--
DGB
Grethcen

8 more posts

VOTE: gretchen

this feels like someone dropping from a wagon that wasnt going anywhere to one that was gettign traction. don't like this

[geraintm]

I suppose i should gather my thoughts together.
people i've found "potentially less than innocent"

Rlotus
Klick (and previously Ydrasse)

Clidd

Dripping Goofball

April confuses me too.

That's about it. storing this for Day 2

[geraintm]

In post 791, RLotus wrote:
VOTE: gretchen


this feels like someone dropping from a wagon that wasnt going anywhere to one that was gettign traction. don't like this

How is that scummy?

i always dislike people who move votes around with no explanation (your post was just a straight up vote gretchen and nothing else), and moving from one that wasn't going anywhere to the fastest growing one.
you had put gretchen in your top scum tier back in 568, but i don't think you had mentioned them again until you voted. it just feels opportunistic.

[geraintm]

eh. town novice detective.

btw did you crumb this at any point

is this another claim i am going to have to pay attention to?

VOTE: geraintm

? am i meant to know why you've voted for me?

[geraintm]

Fine

VOTE: geraintm

i haven't got a clue what i could have done to convince you i am not scum, as your case against me seems to be "doesn't take stances"
have you ever played with me before? am i meant to fake hot takes and make pronouncements with 99% certainty?

callint someone for changing wagons between their two biggest scumreadsn is such a fucking strech

i suppose, but it felt off. like, i have nothing to go on today besides votes and i never like people moving around trying too hard. i think i might have stretched because i felt like i wasn't doing much useful...dunno?

[geraintm]

amelie is way too townread rn thats my take

[geraintm]

amelie is way too townread rn thats my take

so is this a reaction to me suddenly wagoning you?

i got interupted finishing my reply. i meant ot say everyone is too townread on day 1 for my liking

[geraintm]

mm's posting seems characteristic of someone who currently views posting as a chore and to not something she really wants to actively do which is an attitude that is most common on scum

MM?

[geraintm]

I get the impression that geraintm gets scumread alot as town due to his passiveness and narrow vote logic. I have no idea what his tells are and it is quite hard for me to read him one way or the other.

it is an occupational hazard, people normally hate me on day 1.

@ klick - ive been the same here, posting up when i see posts and votes when i dislike them.
and it wasn't defliection, you voted for me and i didn't know why. i am dim so i asked.

[geraintm]

have you ever played with me before? am i meant to fake hot takes and make pronouncements with 99% certainty?

nope

but opinions about the game would be nice

remarking something feels off but not trying to extrapolate anything from that observation feels off

i tried in 793 to bring my thoughts together. i usually reach a point in the day where i feel guilty about not doing more and try, but i just dont know what to do until votes come in, a couple of deaths and some information.

i cannot summon the effort to take tiny little bit of info on day 1 and construct a perry mason like case on people.

[geraintm]

So if you really believe that DaDude is scum, what do you make of the wagon and how quick it formed?

this post seems like a potential perspective slip

going to try and catch up, i had zero motivation to post much whilst the gae was paused.

this post ^^^^
you are all way cleverer than me

I be a TPR! Get off my wagon or be off with thy heads!

really, another day 1 claim. i think i believe about one third of these are true

Tomorrow I'll either have potentially game-solving information or I'll be dead, either way there is no reason to elim me Today when I've openly claimed TPR upon entering the game.

The fact I'm claiming this so early should be a clue that I'm being honest about it.

but can't see a reason to vote here now, as we will likely have a reason one way or the other tomorrow to sort this slt properly

I've just now read back a little and saw a novice detection claim, I'm weighing it up.

What was the other one

Klick softed *something*

i don't remember this

VOTE: gerain
alright this is a mood tbh

call it naked self interest, but any reason for this or is it just because i'm the only player left who hasn't claimed a roll?

VOTE: clidd lets get em

oh, forget that, you are already off me

Dripping Goofball seems awfully confident in the claims in this game...

yeah i'm still not sold on dann tbh but seems like there's no support there anymore. if it's not dann i can see gera as maf. even after being sussed he hasn't really done anything and has been controlled. AAA aaaaaand i really liked solon's posting after repping in even if the claim was premature.

what do you want me to do? I hate day 1s, i suck at them and just wish they were over. you seem to want me to fake a bunch of outrage and reads in response to some people thinking i look scummy. but i cannot and will not do that.

we lost way too much time this game over the last few days without the game progressing, and now we are approaching deadline and we are going to flail to a crappy elimination.

[geraintm]

Gera is acting the same as town!Gera our past game in the sense of confusing reads and bad logic.

I see no reason to think that he is scum here.

i am very confused this game. i cant make head nor tale of today, i keep getting whiplash looking at the thread overnight

Geraint is a bad wagon

you dont like the people on it?

VOTE: hyposoc

VOTE: biped

see, whiplash ^^^

This wagon feels a little dirty with how quickly it's sprung up, let's try this instead

VOTE: Lotus

more whiplash

there feels like so much jumpng around scum are having a field day, knowing a crappy elimination is coming but because everyone was in on it is like poiret on the train, everyone could be the murderer...

i cannot see myself anyone who has jumed out today to be especially scummy. tomorrow it may be clearer but today, nope.

[geraintm]

I'm quickly looking over the thread today kn Sunday, not much time to post.
I went through HypoSoc posts, went from very active to 3 posts since Wednesday...
Like....I have zero idea kn which way they will flip, but I cannot see anything in there to cause me to vote for them

[geraintm]

VOTE: DGB

that was quick...

okay i thought klick was masons with gretchen which is why i didnt want to vote those slots

What make you think that? Quite unlucky that he didn't leave to Night 2 at least

scummy post

i dont follow

in post 1089, is the reason i am confused because there have been so many name changes you are referring to people a few iterations ago?

this is a just a quick post now, will look properly tomorrow

[geraintm]

I normally look at votes when i can to help me narrow down suspects.

clidd, RLotus, Dannflor, Gretchen, Featherless Biped, bugspray, Solon
These were the votes on the wagon yesterday.

Obv, Featherless was town.

Clidd voted in 988, was a blank vote. first voted back in 570. I cannot work out why they ever voted for Hypo

RLotus, hypo was their random vote. final vote was 1012. it came out of nowhere, they hadn't mentioned hypo much in the preceeding posts, little effort to consider other wagons after that.

DAnnflor - voted 1013 (and 1009)

Yeah the IC claim is probably fake but I thought I'd put it out there anyway since some people have taken it seriously. It's not alignment indicative for April to make fake claims like that.

DGB could be scum. They haven't been particularly gungho about pushing anything, besides a couple weak posts here and there going after me.

HypoSoc, I go back and forth on, I *think* I've settled on their focus of the IC claim being town indicative? I also scum read their posting style but realize it might be just that, a posting style. meh, I wish I had something more solid here

this post doesn't fill me with much confidence that the vote was a strong genuine read on the slot.

so far, i find all three of these votes looking bad

Gretcehn - voted in 1019

See, yeah, compared to "late activated IC", Novice Detective IS something that makes sense for scum to claim.

Also, it feels like you made the claim pretty early... like, as town it's a role you want to keep secret. You weren't at risk of being hammered immediately (only E-2 at the time you made the claim, if I counted correctly), so why would you give up the town power role's anonymity so quickly?

Edit by way of preview: +1 to April's "frustrated scum" analysis

lmao i want to vote him for this post alone. infact i will do that, VOTE: HypoSoc

my god, doesn anyone want to look terrible voting for Hypo? you can't all 4 be scum. there was a little bit better progression before this vote though, they dont look quiet as bad the at the other three.

bugspray - this just felt like someone wanting a wagon to get over the line, trying hard to to eliminate someone (who turned out to be town)

Solon - i have no idea what to make of this slot, they barged in late, over eager and happy to hammer anything.

I am frankly hating pretty much the entire wagon, especially as by the time eliminaton actually happened they just felt so unlikely to be scum. it would have been better to not eliminate.

[geraintm]

VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb

i havent had a look at those off the wagon yet, but i am going to need more than this from you.
we hasn't checked in today?

[geraintm]

geraintm I understand you think my vote looks bad

but what do you think that says about my alignment, would you still say it's bad if hypo had flipped red

i am going to need more than this from you

i think anytime a wagon turns red people on it look better by definition, in those circumstances i look for people who were on it either reluctantly or got on it early and then couldn't get off and got trapped with their vote (that happened to me before). this is a hypothetical though.
what else do you want from me though, more thoughts about you?

VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb
VOTE: dgb

What gives you this confidence?

i agree with this. you can't sit there and want more from me and just post naked voted like this

Currently what I think about the game is that April isn't scum because too many people seem to think they are scum and I find that very unsettling. My scum reads have shifted around a lot this game but I think they have finally landed because I really heavily dislike DrippingGoofball and AliceK. They also have close to no interactions. I think Solon is towny for the hammer because featherless biped is town. If Solon was scum, he would assume that Featherless Biped's pr softs were real and push that more than he did. I'm starting to dislike Geraint and think they are scum. Dannflor I think is town.

I'm going to be very busy for the next few days

V/LA for 2 days

who thinks april is scum?
how much have you played mafia? your reasons for reads seem very simplistic.
no idea why you think i am scum, like Day 1 me i get but day 2 i get better and contribute more

[geraintm]

Geraintm I think you should place a vote down

Sorry, its late here (like 11pm) and just checking in quickly.
I hadn't gone through those off wagon yet.
And I am pretty sure there were people who hadn't checked in at all when I was posting and waiting on soon too.
That is why there is no vote yet.

[geraintm]

Should I just reveal my info?

I was hoping for more action than this

you were dying to before, why te hesitancy?

Gretchen voting Clidd is interesting. going to have to go back and see their previous interactions. i was focussing on the early votes on teh wagon from yesterday as having the highest chances of being scum, and rlotus looks ok now.

I imagine that the setup has some traitor mechanics or something that makes scum come from an uninformed perspective. Or, if not, scum is basically playing a simple deepwolf game and successfully emulating a town mentality. In both scenarios scum is not being clear to the eye.

you are perfectly describing yourself here, you know that right?

[geraintm]

Todays mother day, so only a brief check in.

But I think I am right in thinking 3 different wagons all with 2 votes on? That seems scum friendly

[geraintm]

I got a green light on Lotus

Maybe it would be wise to soft it, but actually you were acting very suspicious so probably there was no point to do that.

catching upi from where i last left off.
this post confused me as seemed to be written about the future on something that already happened.

Add this to a long list of games where I fucked up a PR.

I'm

Night 1

Psychologist

and I investigated the NK'd player.

Dannflor is scum PR, put two and two together, bye, see you all in the dead thread.

VOTE: DGB

anothre role i had to go look up what it did. is this role just a one shot cop then?
why you so down on yourself, because you picked someone who died??

@Dann I don't really care for you going into detail on roles or claims other than is this 100% accurate scum caught or no?

I'd say very rarely is anything 100%, even cop guilties run into the possibility of millers.

However, I'd say this is greater than 90% and DGB's reaction does not decrease that at all.

VOTE: amelie

??

Just vote me, I want to go on mafia hiatus, I am a town PR but was tracked to the dead guy, I really suck at the game, kill me it'll improve my odds of winning.

NAI but don't think like this regardless. What I've seen so far I don't think the visit was a bad choice from a town sense. The kill on the other hand, I'm still working this one out as nothing jumps out at me to why this slot was a target, maybe something from Klick.

this feels like VFP trying to justify still voting for dripping goofball

VOTE: Amelie

Goofy's defeatist nature and self trashing i hardly ever see come from maf like this

because i agree with this

the thing is... I didn't track DGB

so it's weird it assumes I did

oh. there i was assuming the simpler things in the game and people tell me it is more complicated than that

Amelie is town, then.

No way all 4 PRs are real and I'm inclined to believe Solon is town so.

it's dumb to find the maf in the PRs right now when they have to kill them for us anyway. why's Amelie town?

kinda want to back up gretchen here.

[geraintm]

this feels like VFP trying to justify still voting for dripping goofball

I'm not voting DGB?

sorry, you are right. i'll rephrase it as a post where you were justifying keeping suspicion on them

@clidd 1215/1216
i'm not clear who this is aimed at

then the run on amelie
i confess, i've not looked at them much, they weren't on the wagon yesterday. i said in my post 1127, i asked them if they were new to the game as their posts just didn't seem to have any natural flow to them, they didn't make sense to me
i read their post 1126 and i still can't make sense of it

amelie, i think you are at the stage where i am going to bring up this

. I will try to check in every day but I guarantee nothing so if a claim is needed, I'll provide it now if two people reply within five minutes.

[geraintm]

btw, i think someone suggested i place a vote. it would normally be in the clump of people on yesterdays wagon that i hated, but even i think that is a vanity vote right now

[geraintm]

Because Solon has a town result on Lotus.
I'm not saying vote Solon, I'm saying it's a bad play to lim a spot with a town result on them.

Quickly poking in, but this was my immediate thought too

[geraintm]

Just vote me, I want to go on mafia hiatus, I am a town PR but was tracked to the dead guy, I really suck at the game, kill me it'll improve my odds of winning.

NAI but don't think like this regardless. What I've seen so far I don't think the visit was a bad choice from a town sense. The kill on the other hand, I'm still working this one out as nothing jumps out at me to why this slot was a target, maybe something from Klick.

@vfb
The reason this pinged me as suspicious was the way you basically kept all options open, yoy thought it not indicative but still didn't like it. I find posts like that things I look out for from scum, because they can use it later to justify going either way.
Does thay make sense why I called it out?

[geraintm]

ok, i am going back to work out who i want to vote for.
i am still wanting to eliminate someone on the wagon yesterday, because i hated everyone on it when i went through the votes and how they happened.

They were
clidd, RLotus, Dannflor, Gretchen, Featherless Biped, bugspray, Solon

But Solon, Dannflor & Gretchen have both made claims that have not ben countered so i don't think it is worth voting there
Obviously Featherless Biped died too.

that leaves
CLidd
Rlotus
Bugspray

But Rlotus has a green light, leaving Clidd and Bugspray
I cannot believe there isn't scum somewhere on the wagon, so becuase of probability that is where i am focussing.
My comments before on these two were

"Clidd voted in 988, was a blank vote. first voted back in 570. I cannot work out why they ever voted for Hypo"
"bugspray - this just felt like someone wanting a wagon to get over the line, trying hard to to eliminate someone (who turned out to be town)"

Currently, Bugspray is on the Amelie wagon.
Clidd isn't voting
I am going to look at Clidd's recent posts now to see what is up

a bunch of posts talking about Amelie but concluding not
for someone who had like 100 posts day 1, they have had about 15 day 2

Now bugspray
their last post

i sr both and there was a wagon on amelie and not clidd

VOTE: amelie
not checking if this is hammer, just voting

getchen can you join this clidd wagon? if you get my read on amelie then you should at least trust my read on clidd a bit

Those feel like the most interesting posts. pretty much happy with either clidd or amelie.

Overalll, i dislike CLidd more. I never got their vote yesterday, and the change in post count and being off wagon now (to me it has the hallmarks of scum team trying to share around being on and off wagon) feels weird.

VOTE: clidd

[geraintm]

i am still wanting to eliminate someone on the wagon yesterday, because i hated everyone on it when i went through the votes and how they happened.

So how many people do you think are on the wagon?
If less than all, what difference is there to lim from there rather than outside?
If you lim wrong and get a town, are you just going to focus on the wagon still?

Personally, although I'm not voting Clidd, I like where this is going and it is actually a decent counter wagon.

VOTE: amelie

i think at least 1 maybe 2. who knows? But i am just going with likelihood/probability and how people got onto the wagon and their reasoning.
tomorrow, there will be new info and we shall all deal with that then. then there will be two wagons though to analyse

[geraintm]

Those feel like the most interesting posts. pretty much happy with either clidd or amelie.

Overalll, i dislike CLidd more. I never got their vote yesterday, and the change in post count and being off wagon now (to me it has the hallmarks of scum team trying to share around being on and off wagon) feels weird.

go amelie dude

i was so confused by this post, and then realised i had written amelie in my post and not bugspray. amelie is not happening

[geraintm]

just realised also amelie thinking i was pushing them was possible because of my mixup- and why they said my push on them felt like i didnt believe it.

[geraintm]

@vfp who is the they you are referring to?

[geraintm]

Town: Clidd
Null: Geraintm, RLotus, Dannflor, Solon, VFP, Bugspray
Scum: AliceK, DrippingGoofball, Gretchen

I still think Lotus should be eliminated. His wagon has no traction and posts are just too calculated.

This is frankly bizarre. You know something that the rest of us don't, because that is the only way to explain this.

[geraintm]

VOTE: RLotus

checking in, don't have as much time to post at weekends as normal.
but if i shout at someone ele for voting rlotus, then i will shout here too

@vfp 1321 ok makes sense

@amelie 1375
please pay more attention to the game. if that was a fake "oh a hammer" then it was a pretty piss poor attempt

I am afraid i am stuck on my vote, and with a bunch of players currently absent i am hoping the vote i have will be joined by others soon

[geraintm]

Quick post.

Day 1 crap show, townie got eliminated.

Day 2
Guilty on dripping goofball
It feels weird
I go through the day 1 wagon and vote clidd. They are very very chill about it.
Whole bunch of power roles are out and about.

Thats my summary

[geraintm]

Btw, I think that there is one scum among my townleans (Gera/Solon/Dann). Not sure who.

i think there has to be, right, as you only have 2 people down as scum?

if people can work out from past games if people are bahving differently in this, they are much better players than me. i assume people are aware of their style of posting an dwork around it.

@ vfp i am voting clidd, i stand by that. i don't think it is likely to happen (it felt viable when i voted there and shortly after, but for some reason it never went anywhere), but that doesn't mean the vote is wrong. wagons fail for all sorts of reasons and that is always interesting.
i'm fairly confident that tomorrow we will have this game pretty much solved, there are a lot of claimed roles out there so either we will have a ton of info, or someone is going to get tripped up by their claim and we shall be on the right track.

[geraintm]

I don't think you disagree that there's at least 1.in amelie, Alice, and DGB though?

i believe when i went through the wagon from yesterday i found clidd and bugspray the two people most likely to be scum. the amelia/alice/DGB triplet were not on the wagon so i never really put any under the same lens as those who were on.
i try and pick groups i think have the highest likelihood of being scum and looking at them. yesterday's wagon is one group. the claimed power roles would be another, but i am happy to leave them alone to sort themselves out tomorrow.
i am not saying there isn't likely to be scum in the AAD grouping, but i think if i voted there it would likely be a tossup and with no logic behind it, unlke my clidd vote. i can at least back up my thinking there and explain why i have voted and to me that is important.

[geraintm]

catching up

That's bad logic again, but I respect since it's your way of playing.

the only person saying it is bad logic is the person i am fingering.

@clidd - you bring up past games where you say i have wavy logic, but my lsat game i did get the solve and scum pointed this out in their thread. i have a bit more confidnece now in my reads because of this

@ amelie - Llama quotes you in their post 1490 asking for a cop to investigate you

I cannot follow amelie's posts at all. they are so out of joint with the rest of the game because they come in so infrequently, i can never work out what they are replying to. will you include quotes of what you are responding to please to make it easier?

gretchen comes in, says they are so out of the loop it isn't funny, and then latches onto a vote real easy like bad gretchen

If Alice slips scum VFP gets ran up immediately.

what does this mean "slips scum"

Now I'm paranoid.

that means you are doing it right

yeah llama and bugspray have both been extremely towny.

i beleive i have bugspray as the person i would vote for 2nd from my looking at the wagon, though their play today does seem good

[geraintm]

If Alice slips scum VFP gets ran up immediately.

what does this mean "slips scum"

*Flips.

ok, thanks. makes more sense

VOTE: Gretchen

I'm doing something

you are doing...something

VOTE: Gretchen

I'm doing something

Why vote your counterpart?

My counterpart?

You claim N1 Psychologist
She claimed Novice Detective (and claimed before you)

Those work together pretty well, almost like putting a Odd/Even Tracker/Watcher type combo

If we are going between the pair my vote is very clearly on you, even though I think there is a decent enough shot both of you are town (especially as Gretchen would be a false positive to the dead PR). If between all claimed PRs I would target Solon/Dann before either of you though.

posts like this make me smarter. i never spot links between the roles like this.

i got nothing else to add right now. i do hope to go through clidd/bugspray's posts today and see how they follow from my earlier thinking

[geraintm]

So i voted for Clidd in 1269. i feel like i should go through their posts since then and see what's up

I'm open for a wagon on DGB or Amélie, depending on what they both post in the next 24 hours.

My read on Gera has significantly improved.

My townread on Bugspray, however, has weakened, but I still believe that the slot could be town.

If the assumption that there is a scum between the claims is correct, it is likely that DGB is the guy we'e looking for by PoE. Grechen, Dunn and Solon are more towny.

bunch of posts giving thoughts on other players. see if these hold over time

VFP is towny and my townread on Dann is also weakening, but at a slower rate compared to my tr on Bugspray.

Alice's vote was terrible, but not scummy, probably bad town..

Considering what I witnessed about scum!Amélie, I believe she is different here (positively).
.

so far there are a whole load of tiny posts giving feelings on people, but nothing much to back it up

Actually, I would not rule out bad scum play on the part of a possible scum!DGB.

.

Alright, let's take a look here:

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Dgb, I would like to take a look at your reads.

wahey, we get a vote. but it is on DGB who hadn't relaly been mentioned much

Yeah, I'm sold on Amélie being very likely town for now. I liked her 1328.

posts like 1377 are asking others to really investigate DGB. but there never felt like any actual investigation from CLidd themselves, the vote just sorta appeared and left as a fait acompli

1417 unvote DGB, considering we are waiting for a replacment

Hum..

Haven't finished the reread, but: VOTE: Amélie

For me she was very likely town based on aggressiveness and the expression of thought, but after rereading (with more attention) her scumgame:

viewtopic.php?t=85406&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

I noticed that it is not out of her scumrange, which is curious, because I played in that game, but I thought she was different here.

a new vote. actual effort into it

Gera is probably town, he hasn't changed much since our last game together.

pedit: DGB is likely town by AtE/bad town play and Dann is town because I liked his posts when he replaced in, although he hasn’t been so towny recently.

I do think that there is scum among PRs, but my reads don't point to where.
.

more vague accusations

Lets just do this for now though and say if you think DGB is town (or want to push DGB/Dann to tomorrow) join in

Vote Ame

Yeah, Amélie is a good counter-wagon.

has made BFFs with new player Llama

Alice is a decent wagon too.

of course it is. but you of course don't say why

It's important to emphasize that I don't promise accuracy, considering that I have also had games in which my meta reads were not as conclusive as I thought and I ended up getting bad/wrong reads.

thats it.
ok, so i've read all their posts since i last voted for them. they've pushed two wagons - Dripping goofball and amelie. there is a lot of thoughts about people, but apart from amelie there is very little effort into anything, it is all just "i'm lumping these people into the good/bad pile". and once they've been sorted that's it, and an almost expectation from them that we should agree with their reads.
i thought a read through would give me pause on my read of their slot. it may well be i am already thinking poorly of them so i am looking for the worst, but i don't see anything there to make me change me read of them as scum.

sorry that this a very long post

[geraintm]

Which means that you are looking for reasons to confirm something that you want to be right or have already judged to be true, but not that you are really evaluating impartially. This is called confirmation bias.

i knew this going in, that i could just find stuff and i fit it with i already believed. but i also went in thinking to myself "i can't really remember much the last week or so that clidd has posted that caused me to sit up", i genuinely thought i would do the read through and come out of it thining better of you.
but i didn't, certainly not enough to want to not vote you.

[geraintm]

aw man, i come back after a night and find all these posts...

a massive wall from Flea, a bunch of interactions between people talking about how the claimed roles work which go above my paygrade.
Almost nothing about me. I feel lost in this game, just sitting in my own boat lazily drifting along the river as everyone else is in a raft franticly paddling through white water.
i admit i am stuck on clidd. i am sorry, but it feels like a lot of the workings out at the moment are based on people's claims, timings and stuff like that and it isn't something i am comfortable using to place votes.

[geraintm]

Gerain you have massively different energy here to my last rep in. You were more passive then and you seem more engaged here... I'm TRing you at 7/10 but I'm sus af about it.

Never mind, literally aimed but not requiring response.

yeah, that was what i thought. i don't feel more engaged than other games. i've done like 2 or 3 big effort posts today, but i'm surprised you consider me invovled.

[geraintm]

Sorry, weekend so can't post much.
Dgb is just a lost cause for this game. They have zero credibility, and everything they say just isn't helping themselves or the game progressing, unless they are scum aiming to throw as much crap around as possible.

Guessing on game setups seems pointless without a full set of claims. My belief is at least one is fake and one is a misrepresentation. So trying to work out what to do is beyond me.

[geraintm]

In case it wasn't clear, I am not advocating a mass claim, I think that doesn't help

[geraintm]

Why does everyone always hope their is a vig in every single game?

[geraintm]

Everyone is awfully confident they will flip green (shrug emoji goes here)

[geraintm]

Weekend.
Catching up and that was unexpected. Well not too much I guess as I always seem to face a "geraint is useless" wagon at some point.
I'm not sure what i can say to push people off me now, as it feels like the older players who couldn't get a wagon over the line combined with some new blood have decided I'm the elimination for today.
There won't be a claim coming from me if anyone is expecting one, I dont have anything.
What do people expect me to do now, fake a bunch of reads to appear more active?

[geraintm]

Weekend.
Catching up and that was unexpected. Well not too much I guess as I always seem to face a "geraint is useless" wagon at some point.
I'm not sure what i can say to push people off me now, as it feels like the older players who couldn't get a wagon over the line combined with some new blood have decided I'm the elimination for today.
There won't be a claim coming from me if anyone is expecting one, I dont have anything.
What do people expect me to do now, fake a bunch of reads to appear more active?

You should vote Flea or DGB then. Thats the only way you might not go today.

VOTE: dgb I know eliminating me is bad. There is zero way dgb can be allowed to survive that much longer in the game, no one else seems to really want clidd gone (but I stand by circling back to that tomorrow once we know more) so I guess this is the best thing to do.

[geraintm]

Catching up this morning. Not sure how much time is left.
I thought the random push from people to me was bad. I don't think dgb is a great elimination, but I know that is likelier to hit scum than me so I went with it.
But let's VOTE: llama and see what happens there, because I ain't happy with them at all.
I would vote dgb if needs be, but something stinks around here and I think llama is more likely (right jow) than dgb

[geraintm]

assuming i get hammered, then look at why the other wagons didn't ever get pushed over the line, and who and when the one on me started.
the sudden "geraint isnt contributing anything useful" line that started it could have been raised at any point today, say for example clidd who has been sitting there all day going "geraint is wrong" but only just late on voted for me. the ones earlier on the wagon too, check to see if they were not on any of the bigger wagons and what their reluctance was to joining them

[geraintm]

Gera is soooo town, can't we yeet A50?

i think we've somehow been manipulated into choosing between town or town, with not enough people wanting to be seen on a wagon they know is going to flip green.

[geraintm]

VOTE: dripping goofball
yeah, they can't be left in the game

[geraintm]

imagine a huge pause after the yeah....

[geraintm]

Gera is soooo town, can't we yeet A50?

Flea pls vote A50.

The problem here, is you're asking someone you're so damn keen on yeeting... to yeet someone who has greenlit another slot.

Rlotus

Greenlit another slot?

[geraintm]

Like, you know that right DGB? You have paid some attention to the game? You must remember that slot (whichever player it was) saying rlotus was clear?

Problem i have is that the only player who appears active as deadline approaches is you. Bunch of people suspiciously gone quiet

[geraintm]

I'm not saying you are all awful, but like one of the reasons I hate dgb is because they keep wanting to vote for a pr that has given a clear...and everyone else now seems t want to do the same. All as an alternative to a wagon on me that no seemed to form because I posted and people paid attention to me. Just...no idea how to play this game. I've already vowed next game I'm in I'm just going to vote 14 times a day because no one else on this site seems to be able to coexist with someone who doesn't play by their idea of how to play mafia

[geraintm]

@gera: vote almost50 you silly silly

VOTE: almost 50

I think this is awful, a hugely terrible idea....

[geraintm]

Nope, I agree. But I'm fed up with every game I'm in getting run up for not joining in the merry go round of votes. I know I don't want myself eliminated because of my flip, I'm not doing the weird DGB thing though of being happy to go.

[geraintm]

I was going to vote a50 but Gera did a really weird post.

Let me think about it again before voting.

Like, j feel like everyone else is playing by different rules than me.
Someone literally says "i want to vote for almost 50"
I vote for almost 50
"I want to find any reason I can to not vote for almost 50"

And I am the one get shouted at for being odd

[geraintm]

You know something, this is going to be the most anti-town thing I ever do.

My vote is not moving. You want me on a lim, you lim DGB.

VOTE: dgb
Thanks for helping me make my mind up and doing the right thing

[geraintm]

If they do, after repeatedly saying I was the better slot to survive then they just need to be shot ibto the sun immediately

[geraintm]

just checking in quickly to say i have seen that the day has restarted and all and i have nothing concrete myself to add to what Pooky has said. it is easter weekend and i have a couple of extra days off work so i'll catch up as best i can at some point the next day or two.

[geraintm]

just checking in quickly to say i have seen that the day has restarted and all and i have nothing concrete myself to add to what Pooky has said. it is easter weekend and i have a couple of extra days off work so i'll catch up as best i can at some point the next day or two.

It's your turn to post everything you're thinking.

my suspicion is that the claimed roles are too many and one isn't correct. but that hunting today within them is probably the wrong place to be looking and it should be elsewhere. some of the claimed actions are a little too...self-serving (is that the right way of saying it?) the small group of people left makes sense, though i can obviously rule one of them out. but everyone else in this group is going to say the same thing so it is going to end up being those cleared/thought of as town to decide.

i hated yesterday, i havent worked out why yet that all the wagons felt so weird and why none got there until the very end, and it felt like a lot of people were moving very quickly (though i was too into it to see at the time what it was). that will be what i aim to check on later, see if the votes from yesterday match my thoughts on day 1.

still dont understand flea's opening post on them being screwed

[geraintm]

ok, looking at people i am most sus of in order

Clidd: i didn't liek them day 1
i see that they were the hammer on day 2 too.

The sad thing is that he could be playing like that as town.

But there is no gamesolving on his part, so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

^^^ this is about me, calling me out for not attempting to solve the game. my vote at this point was on clidd btw. it feels like he wants me to move my vote - gamesolving feels like code for "i want them to move somewhere else"
there was another post earlier aimed at pooky imloring them to solve.

they were voting me from 1909 and then we get

If not Gera, A50 is the slot that makes more sense as a counter-wagon by play to me, but the slot claimed pr so I'm not touching him today unless Gera somehow didn't happen.

I can do A50 if two more players agree to join the wagon.

I was going to vote a50 but Gera did a really weird post.

Let me think about it again before voting.

Do you guys want me to hammer?

I prefer an elimination to no-elimination.

Unless the Gera wagon suddenly gains traction.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

It's time to get a flip, regardless of the content.

that isn't solving. im not sure what it is, but considering how the vibe i got from them is always demanding more from others but not actually going through other people's posts and pointing out inconsistencies or anything, i find it back. being on both wagons, seemingly on day 2 doing everything that could to not be on the DGB wagon until the very end...i don't like it

Flea

they were Alice day 1 and not on the wagon.
but day 2, boy were they all over DGB
their 5th post they voted for them. and it never, ever moved. I am someone who it takes a lot to get me worked up to a vote, and i cannot understand how a player new to game is so certain and just never shifts. it is the sort of thing i might do, but it is unusual from anyone else.
is this normal for flea?

they do admit day 3 to being the strong lead on the DGB wagon and expect to be pnished for it, but also doing a woe is me thing with regards gretchen.
i am not a fan (i think without flea in the game teh DGB wagon would never have stayed around all day like it did) but i hate clidd more

i look at the wagon that formed on me yesterday

VFP, PookyTheMagicalBear, clidd, LlamaFluff, RLotus

that feels like the last 2 are town, so the people driving it are on their early. clidd just keeps popping up everywhere i look, and i want to play the odds on catching scum.
VOTE: clidd

sorry, no more time to post now

[geraintm]

At flea. I may well have played with you before, but unless it was the previous game I won't remember.
And when I said new to game, I meant a player who has joined replaced into this one

[geraintm]

Llama hasn't asked me for my claim, but people know what I am, right?

[geraintm]

checking in quickly UNVOTE: because no way clidd should be one vote from elimination when we are waiting for their claim (i get the idea of pressure, but i dont want them to accidentally be voted out and i would be very upset if anyone did before they had a chance to talk)

[geraintm]

My claim is VT, by the way.

flea next?

VOTE: clidd

[geraintm]

Catching up

If we get a clear I want a very active content heavy clear.s

I don't know what this means

this is you voting for DGB:




this is me defending DGB:






You saying trying to shade me for things that Dann said about DGB when I literally defended DGB and tried to not let DGB die while you voted for DGB and got DGB killed is just so dense.

I don't even care if you are town anymore

VOTE: Lotus

never moving this vote

you deserve to lose whatever alignment you are

ok....I have to say if this is Pooky saying these posts are them defending DGB and were meant to be enough for everyone to not have eliminated them, then i still don't get a strong vibe from these posts at all, even now when Pooky is battering me over the head with them. if you want me to not vote for someone, you need to be much, much clearer. why you are getting so pissy about people not understanding your vague hints is beyond me.

reading Clidd's posts around the 2300s...there is a reluctance to go beyond amelie at all in their scum reads.

if we assume the 2 TPRs are real cuz I think mini normals r basically ~5 TPRs and that makes sense. Does any1 want to counterclaim another TPR?

Otherwise I'm gonna just townbin a50/me and lotus+llama as innos and we try to find 3 scum in the 5 people left over?

i don't think it is safe to do that....but i think you can try because at some point if there is scum in the claimed roles things will fall apart from a logic point of view.

@amelie's post 2315 - is this what it is like to read my posts, where all i do is go through everyone and say i hate you all. either amelie is the most similar player to myself i've ever played with, or they are just setting themselves up to vote anywhere they need to later on.

scum

I mean, it all adds up.
UNVOTE: Pooky

i don't understand this, what do you mean it all adds up? i take it you think Pooky's claim was fake but i don't understand why the reasoning behind targetting Llama would be the thing that tipped it over for you.

I'll get round to looking at clidd and flea again later, have more time now after the long easter weekend

[geraintm]

scum

I mean, it all adds up.
UNVOTE: Pooky

sorry, i just read back and realised you unvoted, not voted.
delete the last bit from my previous post.
instead, i'll ask why pooky's reasing for targetting llama makes you trust Pooky now?

[geraintm]

looking bcakwards at flea.

There was a load of anti DGB stuff yesterday. post 2003 trashing gretchen

Oh and Mafia, good luck tonight. You all know I'm on you like a hound.
And you have 2 PRs to take aim at.

Well nuts. Thats me screwed.

That said, our investigatives should have some info.

1st post today

RLotus is green based on A50, Llama's green based on Pooky. Remove all 3 for now. them from PoE for now - bad idea I know.

I'm left with Gerain, Clidd, Amélie and VFP.

VFP is likely town,
clidd slightly less likely,

Amélie and Gerain have equal chance to be scum buckets, and is where I'm going to look a bit closer today.

a post looking at where they are likely to vote

VOTE: VFP because you're on the fence, yet voting me because its inevitable and you keep pointing this out that my lim is going to happen. I get the big scumz from you.
.

next post, a vote for vfp

post 2234 is a weird response to VFP, trying to get them to not be so defeatist and vote for people - including themselves. it is a really bizarre interaction

I missed a line break and apparently my brain did a multitrack drift.

Ya'll need to shift off pooky. Gun at me instead, I took Danns information and made the drive, you wanna blame pooks? you blame me. got it?

*cracks knuckles*

Lets dew dis.

their last post. i cannot understand where this is sourced from.
if town - why are they advocating their own elimination
are they scum - very confident that they won't get pushed over the line??

for someone who said previously that they will go down fighting, this doesn't line up with that if town??

[geraintm]

PookyTheMagicalBear
Amélie
Flea The Magician
geraintm
VFP
RLotus
clidd
LlamaFluff
Almost50

GOing to summerise here my game thoughts on the alive players

Almost 50 - claimed PR and has a green light on RLotus
Pooky - claimed PR and has a green light on Llama

everyone else has claimed VT i believe?
i keep reading posts where people are making the assumption that the PRs are clear - and then i keep having to remind myself that it is usually pooky who has said that.
i am much more wary about the claims because that is the easiest way to losing this game without fighting.

of the 2 eliminations who are in the game now
DAy 1 - clidd/Rlotus/Almost 50/Llama/Pooky

Day 2 - Flea/Rlotus/llama/clidd

[geraintm]

sorry, realise that last post makes no sense - it was partly for me and partly for others to see my thinking.

[geraintm]

@ flea - what behind the scenes working and thinking? I cannot give you credit for things i literally cannot see.

Loving that gerain thinks I'm advocating for my own elimination. I'm trying to stir up discussion, not get myself limmed, but I can work with this

you said this above - like i am somehow confused by your posts. but you posted the below

Ya'll need to back off the pooks.

Llama dunno what you want to stir from me, but ya'll need to shift off pooky. Gun at me instead, I took Danns information and made the drive, you wanna blame pooks? you blame me. got it?

what else am i to think but this is someone inviting inspection - but if you are town why would you do this? why try and get yourself eliminated? i am a simple person and can only read limited things from this.

if you are town, then your fatalism combined with DGB has ruined our chances of winning this.

i'm not sure what you mean by amelie comes out of the blue drops?
and are you asking pooks why they targetted scum with their ability?? like, what else are they meant to do with it??

[geraintm]

VC 3.05

PookyTheMagicalBear (0)-

Amélie (1)-

clidd

Flea The Magician (4)-

geraintm, LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus

(E-1)

geraintm (0)-

VFP (1)-

Flea The Magician

RLotus (0)-

clidd (1)-

Amélie

LlamaFluff (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Almost50, VFP

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to Eliminate.

Deadline is

(expired on 2021-04-11 19:00:00)

- Apr 11th 19:00 GMT

this vote is incorrect i believe, i was voting clidd at the time?

[geraintm]

reading Clidd's posts around the 2300s...there is a reluctance to go beyond amelie at all in their scum reads.

What do you think about VFP then?

vfp...i am trying to make sense of the interactions with flea today

[geraintm]

In post 2331, RLotus wrote:
VOTE: Flea
That's e-1 I believe


I dont support this wagon currently. I find Flea particularly scummy but this wagon feels far too convenient. I'd like to see a strong clidd counter wagon and how the day plays out with that

this is plain just odd

[geraintm]

Definitely isn't a loaded question, it's a good attempt at looking busy though.

this is about vfp - and i really like it

I'm actually quite happy with how this is rolling, counterwagon implies I'm scum and the wagon is being shifted off me. no wagon softclears me. Of course now you're saying we need a counterwagon frames me alongside you as an associative. Bold move for the townie points, sadly failed.

i really hate this though

VFP's post 2373 - i cant work out all the knots they are tying me and flea together in. it almost feels like (an informed) VFP is daring me to not vote for flea because of reasons???

[geraintm]

Jeeze did Amélie vote at all D1? like this is dangling off the radar dish lurking.

3 Scum, VFP, Amélie and clidd.

Game solved.

so, i'm glad someone else has done these posts, they are what i try and do but better. i do bad excel things.

seeing your final posts flea, my fixation on clidd is understandable i think and i hope people come and join me. clidd just sits there and responds to llama and me when we point out how likely clidd is to be scum with "well...your logic is wrong" {shrug}

I mean, you can use a statistical basis to support the argument that 100% town wagons are unlikely, of course, but I have hardly seen this type of scumhunting method work in any game that I have played in since last year, except with a few specific players.

my last game it is what i did to find scum and the scum thread had some posts pointing out i was correct. why i went into this game more confident in my hunting abilities. it is only when i am forced to look outside what i am comfortable with do i end up with ebeing on eliminations like yesterday.
you look like you have been able to bat away my poking for 2 days...but it is catching up with you and you've got nothing better than "your logic is wrong" to everyone.

One player i want to know the alignment of - well - clidd obviously. after that i would say amelie because i cannot get a handle on them at all, but they are being replaced so the new player will hopefully just be easier to get.

[geraintm]

@clidd - i'm not sure what you are wanting? you sit there and post snarky gifs, tell me (and others) that i (we) are just wrong. like, you sat there and asked for flea's take on the votes, he did it, and you just go "ah, i see what you've done there but you are sadly mistaken and i couldn't possibly be scum..."
llama posted a reads list and you just reply with "I don't get it" when you see yourself top of the pops.

all you've done lately is sit there and go "amelie feels off to me, i think they are scum"
you constantly have a go at me for being fixated on you (and i have tried looking elsewhere - i went through flea as best i could), yet you are doing exactly the same with amelie! " I'm only viewing Amélie as scum atm."

[geraintm]

Aw man, ike 7 pages to catch up with overnight. that is too much for me so going to try and pick at bits i find interessting

So scum is myself and the person that I'm townreading.

Good reads, Llama.

clidd - you can't bad mouth everyone in the game for their reads. someone has to be right. i think you are just wrong though.

I'm fine with the setup being exactly

Odd Night Gunsmith
Even Night Gunsmith
Novice Detective
Night 1 Psychologist
??? Neapolitian

because normals tend to get approved with 5 TPRs

the Gunsmiths are balanced by the fact that they get false-guilties on Detective/Gunsmith so it's roughly 50/50 on the guilty hit rate

The Neap is balanced by the fact that 4/7 of their "guilties" are false guilties. The other 2 invest roles are fairly weak imo.

It's a theme that fits. I highly doubt the mafia would have a doctor, the only game I've played as a mini normal where the gunsmith could get false innos on a mafia doctor was Boardgames and that Mafia Doctor was designed to counter the town vig and the town gunsmith and it was announced at the beginning of the game that a mafia doctor was in the game.

As that town was roughly the same power level as this one, I would expect a mafia doctor to be similarly announced as a possibility.

there doesn't so far seem any interference from scum in any of the roles, everyone has said their actions have gone through i believe. which makes me think that either scum have a role/ability that screws with our PRs, or else they PRs aren't all they appear to be.

@VFP - you are saying you'd be happy to hammer any of those slots - has there been a point today though when Clidd was at E-1 and you didnt hammer (VC 3.04). why was that?

Flea'spost 2484 - i think i need to go look at VFP next

Titus - 2494 - i am expecting on Saturday a good set of posts

[geraintm]

@VFP - you are saying you'd be happy to hammer any of those slots - has there been a point today though when Clidd was at E-1 and you didnt hammer (VC 3.04). why was that?

What kind if question is this?
My post came after the E1 (by a lot actually). And even had Flea at E1 since.

You are asking why I didn't end the day early when it wasn't even half way there.

the flea at e-1 was an error, my vote on them wasn't correct. that's why i didn't mention that.

[geraintm]

Yeah, basically that ^

The elimination of Gera was comically quick.

Quick
It wasn't funny though

[geraintm]

ive got no problems with Scum thread being opened up

[geraintm]

just so hard arguing with people saying "your reads are awful" when i know my reads are indeed awful

[geraintm]

Btw, I'm still a little disappointed with the general apathy, ngl, but I understand that not everyone had fun.

A lot of people replaced out.

yes. game got derailed multiple times by changes to the players. i think at the point i got eliminted, only one other player in the game had also started it.

[geraintm]

Q: what was the use of the mafia gunsmith?

[geraintm]

The crucial point of the game felt like Solon coming out with a claim and then clearing someone. It might have taken pressure off them and got them to the end game, but it tied us into knots. There were so many people ruled out of getting eliminated by the mod game we as scum had no where to go and not enough places to make everyone look.