Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

would it not make sense to flip dunn here?

I want to flip the player I Scum Read the most. Just because you all think that Dunn is Scum (I don’t find Dunn particularly convincing either way) does not mean that I have to agree. And I already have the sense that something is going on. Which is why I’m not going along. I don’t need to flip Dunn to confirm that.

ok, something is going on, probably, we're playing mafia. but you're claiming that we're probably town and that there's scum hiding behind us on the wagon. i assume you're still ~town on max, you know who else was on italiano yesterday? do you wanna guess where midway is voting right now?

i don't understand this view at all. like, lotus is also one of the people that wants dunn dead. baltar is heavily helping out there. if you assume lotus!scum and baltar!town, why in the heck would lotus start trying to abuse the ~paranoia~ now?

Did you even read what I wrote? I was arguing that RLotus is probably Town for that post, because the thought process behind the post is rather convoluted. I am not making an assumption that RLotus is Scum, and VPB is Town.

does "What Scum doesn’t try to take advantage of these points unless they’re taking about a Partner?" not mean "if lotus were scum, he'd turn on baltar"?

actually now that i type it out it does sound kinda convoluted but that's the first interpretation i got from that line

could you link this? i'm scrolling around early green's iso, and i don't see it.

Do you think Duchess and Italiano are scum together? Or that duchess was scum trying to pocket a low hanging fruit townie?

I toyed with the idea of maybe s/s, but that post I was quoting specifically feels more like s/t. Also on the aggression scale my Q to VD was so benign that I don’t think a scum would have felt compelled to preemptively attack it on behalf of another scum who hadn’t yet responded. Couple that with VD-scum turning around to vote Dutchess-scum seems unlikely though not out of the realm of reasonable strategy (this doesn’t seem like a quick elim game, in terms of attitude and no players that I know of who will insta hammer).

The very first sentence confirms what I’m saying. They “toyed with the idea” of Italiano and Duchess being both Scum, but after Italiano turns around and votes for Duchess, it appears to be less likely (but not that they leave themselves open by saying that it could just be “strategy”).

err, not sure it does? you claim that green was making a point that they're both scum, only to then drop it and reconsider later. but green was never actually pushing that, no? i saw this quote when skimming earlier, but it seemed to me like a completely internal thought process.

[VP Baltar]

I mean yeah, again, this slot is definitely worth flipping. And I would argue it would clear Dunn.

I'm not following how a GC scum flip clears dunn outright...what are you seeing here?

[Andresvmb]

why would Baltar need to know that there was a neighborizer? what is even your thought process.

I saw Baltar's post and thought either he was just shooting the breeze, and it was worth putting out a crumb, or maybe similar to a game i just played (I believe with Baltar) where there were multiple folks of the same role (here, neighborizers) and he was trying to see if there was a similar situation

So you’re a Neighborizer? So who have you Neighborized N1? And do you have any Modifiers that can actually help with game solving? Because otherwise it’s just a cute role with not much of an impact on the game and it doesn’t at all change my feeling that you’re Scum.

[Green Crayons]

okay

[Andresvmb]

Why are you both running interference for Green Crayons? Every time I post or push there, you both [Datisi, VPB] come out of the woodwork to either intensely question my argument, or divert the conversation in some other direction. What’s going on?

[Andresvmb]

okay

Answer the question. Who did you Neighborize N1?

[Andresvmb]

I'm not following how a GC scum flip clears dunn outright...what are you seeing here?

GC moved away from Duchess and voted Dunn, and they did the same thing today. If GC is Scum I would argue that they haven’t been trying to bus their Partner spontaneously since D1.

[VP Baltar]

could you link this? i'm scrolling around early green's iso, and i don't see it.

Do you think Duchess and Italiano are scum together? Or that duchess was scum trying to pocket a low hanging fruit townie?

I toyed with the idea of maybe s/s, but that post I was quoting specifically feels more like s/t. Also on the aggression scale my Q to VD was so benign that I don’t think a scum would have felt compelled to preemptively attack it on behalf of another scum who hadn’t yet responded. Couple that with VD-scum turning around to vote Dutchess-scum seems unlikely though not out of the realm of reasonable strategy (this doesn’t seem like a quick elim game, in terms of attitude and no players that I know of who will insta hammer).

The very first sentence confirms what I’m saying. They “toyed with the idea” of Italiano and Duchess being both Scum, but after Italiano turns around and votes for Duchess, it appears to be less likely (but not that they leave themselves open by saying that it could just be “strategy”).

I just want to clarify your viewpoint here, you think that was scum!VP asking scum!GC a clarifying point about the crux of your scum!GC case?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not following how a GC scum flip clears dunn outright...what are you seeing here?

GC moved away from Duchess and voted Dunn, and they did the same thing today. If GC is Scum I would argue that they haven’t been trying to bus their Partner spontaneously since D1.

Ok, that makes sense as a take

[Green Crayons]

ah yes, let me divulge who i neighborized while sitting at e-2 when you're already convinced that i'm scum and have said my role doesn't sway you otherwise

no thank you

[Andresvmb]

could you link this? i'm scrolling around early green's iso, and i don't see it.

Do you think Duchess and Italiano are scum together? Or that duchess was scum trying to pocket a low hanging fruit townie?

I toyed with the idea of maybe s/s, but that post I was quoting specifically feels more like s/t. Also on the aggression scale my Q to VD was so benign that I don’t think a scum would have felt compelled to preemptively attack it on behalf of another scum who hadn’t yet responded. Couple that with VD-scum turning around to vote Dutchess-scum seems unlikely though not out of the realm of reasonable strategy (this doesn’t seem like a quick elim game, in terms of attitude and no players that I know of who will insta hammer).

The very first sentence confirms what I’m saying. They “toyed with the idea” of Italiano and Duchess being both Scum, but after Italiano turns around and votes for Duchess, it appears to be less likely (but not that they leave themselves open by saying that it could just be “strategy”).

I just want to clarify your viewpoint here, you think that was scum!VP asking scum!GC a clarifying point about the crux of your scum!GC case?

There’s something strange going on. You and GC vibed extremely well D1. Can you at least agree with that? I don’t want to have to quote interactions between the two of you. You guys were discussing all kinds of view points, with GC defending you as Town repeatedly, and with you returning the favor for the most part. But today, as I quoted, you’ve changed your tune. It’s a subtle but remarkable change of perspective.

Maybe you both wouldn’t as Scum make yourselves so obvious. I suppose you’re trying to get at that argument. And perhaps I would agree. If it weren’t for the fact that you’re now distancing from each other. But again, it’s something to focus on later, after we’ve had a flip. Right now, it’s just too early to tell.

[Andresvmb]

ah yes, let me divulge who i neighborized while sitting at e-2 when you're already convinced that i'm scum and have said my role doesn't sway you otherwise

no thank you

This is a Scum claim.

You’ve effectively confirmed for everybody that you’re a Neighborizer. Revealing who you targeted has no impact other than allow that player to confirm your role. You declining to do so is a horrible look.

[Datisi]

ok so like

VOTE: green crayon

e-2

I don't like his push on me today

something something "and at this point i think a flip either way would be informative" 1967

dunn does not mention green at all in his scumreads
dunn contunuously ignores my questions towards him (dunno if there were others' too)
pops out of nowhere after like 36 hours of not playing to put this wagon at y-2 based on weaksauce not liking the way green is pushing on him today??

1921 from GC feels like a weird way to present a question
To answer it, I should be playing the same as long as my motivation is here. I was not really into the game for a lot of D1.
VOTE: Green Crayons

mentioned earlier that he was getting bad pings on green, never elaborated on, now is on wagon because ~feels like a weird way to present a question~

handwaves the dunn wagon, and apparently because the gamestate is dead, we're probably not getting dunn today if he's scum because his partners would interfere (but is that not true for any scum in such a gamestate?) but there are people interfering with his wagon? is there any suspicion towards them or that whole situation?? nope, he just finds dunn's vote on him "suspicious" but hopes dunn sees he's town soon enough ???

and momrangal, who's making lowkey faulty arguments at baltar and refusing to go into them and defeinding dunn on weak ass meta

like please
how is this wagon in any universe completely pure

[Datisi]

Why are you both running interference for Green Crayons? Every time I post or push there, you both [Datisi, VPB] come out of the woodwork to either intensely question my argument, or divert the conversation in some other direction. What’s going on?

i think dunn is scum and i'm trying to get him flipped

also i don't scumread green and am trying to figure out if i'm going wrong there, or if you're wrong, or if you're bullshitting scum, and what other way do i do that than probe and see what you're all about?

[Green Crayons]

ah yes, let me divulge who i neighborized while sitting at e-2 when you're already convinced that i'm scum and have said my role doesn't sway you otherwise

no thank you

This is a Scum claim.

You’ve effectively confirmed for everybody that you’re a Neighborizer. Revealing who you targeted has no impact other than allow that player to confirm your role. You declining to do so is a horrible look.

i can recruit multiple times and i'd like for the scum to not know who my selectively curated townblock is

[VP Baltar]

why would Baltar need to know that there was a neighborizer? what is even your thought process.

I saw Baltar's post and thought either he was just shooting the breeze, and it was worth putting out a crumb, or maybe similar to a game i just played (I believe with Baltar) where there were multiple folks of the same role (here, neighborizers) and he was trying to see if there was a similar situation

Got to say, I'm not buying this exchange.

I definitely did not see your reply as a claim of any type. I had a reason behind that post, but it wasn't about neighborizers.

[Green Crayons]

well that just goes to show i didn't read your mind

[Andresvmb]

ah yes, let me divulge who i neighborized while sitting at e-2 when you're already convinced that i'm scum and have said my role doesn't sway you otherwise

no thank you

This is a Scum claim.

You’ve effectively confirmed for everybody that you’re a Neighborizer. Revealing who you targeted has no impact other than allow that player to confirm your role. You declining to do so is a horrible look.

i can recruit multiple times and i'd like for the scum to not know who my selectively curated townblock is

More nonsense. This argument makes no sense at all.

[Green Crayons]

how does it not make sense? i can recruit multiple times. i will recruit people i think are town. we will further suss out our alignments in neighborhood pt, or find out if one is scum. it's like a masonhood where you have to actually work for it.

[VP Baltar]

Why are you both running interference for Green Crayons? Every time I post or push there, you both [Datisi, VPB] come out of the woodwork to either intensely question my argument, or divert the conversation in some other direction. What’s going on?

I don't think that is what is happening at all?????

[Andresvmb]

Why are you both running interference for Green Crayons? Every time I post or push there, you both [Datisi, VPB] come out of the woodwork to either intensely question my argument, or divert the conversation in some other direction. What’s going on?

i think dunn is scum and i'm trying to get him flipped

also i don't scumread green and am trying to figure out if i'm going wrong there, or if you're wrong, or if you're bullshitting scum, and what other way do i do that than probe and see what you're all about?

Unless you’ve seen a Neighborizer before that claimed but refused to reveal who they targeted N1, I believe you’re the one going wrong.

[Datisi]

while the refusal to claim is debatably (and agreeably) annoying, what is the scum motivation there? claim weak role that doesn't prove alignment unprompted, then refuse to claim target because ??? funsies? like what's the "scumclaim" here

[Andresvmb]

it's like a masonhood where you have to actually work for it.

I’m sorry, what? No. A Neighborhood is most certainly not a masonhood. This is absurd. Unless your accuracy is 100%, your “perfectly curated Town block” is not better than anybody else’s unless proven otherwise. And I’m far from convinced you are even Town, let alone trustworthy enough to establish a Town core.

[Green Crayons]

nooooo shiiiiiiit

we will further suss out our alignments in neighborhood pt,

or find out if one is scum

lol

[Andresvmb]

while the refusal to claim is debatably (and agreeably) annoying, what is the scum motivation there? claim weak role that doesn't prove alignment unprompted, then refuse to claim target because ??? funsies? like what's the "scumclaim" here

So there’s no Scum motivation behind claiming a PR, however weak it may be, to avoid execution? Just out the damn target it literally only speaks to who Green Crayons trusts and that’s it.