Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[midwaybear]

I want to say that scum probably are more comfortable posting right now while town just don't really care.

Would love to hear your explanation for that.

There are many inactive slots, so I can see town sort of shutting down.

[Andresvmb]

Btw, you still haven't explained why you wanted to focus on the Italiano wagon and then voted off it.

I’m voting for you. So you can drop this now.

Yeah, you voted me after I pointed this out, as far as I recall. I'd like you to explain your reasoning prevoting me

I don’t know why my voting pattern matters as much for my argument. I have been defending Dunn for example because I believe there’s Scum on the Italiano wagon, and the same wagon practically speaking isn’t going to result in a Scum execution. That in and of itself should tell you that I am acting consistent with my thinking as it pertains to that wagon. My vote will sometimes go to who I want to sort better and think is Scummy, and not be completely fixed on the one argument I’ve made. Unless I thought the entire Scum Team was on the Italiano wagon, and I don’t believe that, then it’s not really a great argument you’re making.

[Datisi]

where is andres setting himself up to vote you?

Gotta admit I was sort of trolling when I said 2340, but part of me viewed it as some sort of shade that Andres could point to when he decides to hammer me.

why were you trolling

can you explain why you think scum is more likely to be posting in a slow game like this and why are you suspecting the three of us, beyond "they are posting"?

[Andresvmb]

except there were mutliple people voting and/or showing interest in them and dgb calling for more votes

And DGB has pull why? They just replaced in, and haven’t done much of anything. And I clearly backed off of them.

[midwaybear]

why were you trolling

can you explain why you think scum is more likely to be posting in a slow game like this and why are you suspecting the three of us, beyond "they are posting"?

Just want to have some fun.
I mean the reason is literally that you are all posting which is why it was a snap reaction. I don't know whether this is truly the case or not. If I continue to live, my reads should change.

[Datisi]

ok i missed the pagetop
disregard the middle q
what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking? like in my exp that's usually what happens

pedit: this is an addition to 2352

[Andresvmb]

and like it's obviously not survivalistic on the surface because "self-voting brings you closer to execution" but is it really never used as a reverse psychology kinda "ok then vote me" thing?? and coupled w claiming pr, which is also something that so very often makes people not wanna vote someone?

I literally just wrote that it could be a psychological trick. I’ve already added the caveat you’re using to diminish the point I was trying to make.

And Green Crayons also made a PR claim that made people back off them, and it doesn’t really say anything about their alignment. Yet you don’t have a problem there why? Because you were neighborized?

[Datisi]

except there were mutliple people voting and/or showing interest in them and dgb calling for more votes

And DGB has pull why? They just replaced in, and haven’t done much of anything. And I clearly backed off of them.

not necessarily but if they're town it's still a town voice encouraging votes. and you backed off them after they claimed, no?

[midwaybear]

what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking?

Because scum might fell self-conscious about lurking. I know that you and VPB are generally quite active, so I imagine that it would be hard to lurk as scum, especially in a good position.

[Andresvmb]

not necessarily but if they're town it's still a town voice encouraging votes. and you backed off them after they claimed, no?

No. Maybe look again.

[Datisi]

and like it's obviously not survivalistic on the surface because "self-voting brings you closer to execution" but is it really never used as a reverse psychology kinda "ok then vote me" thing?? and coupled w claiming pr, which is also something that so very often makes people not wanna vote someone?

I literally just wrote that it could be a psychological trick. I’ve already added the caveat you’re using to diminish the point I was trying to make.

And Green Crayons also made a PR claim that made people back off them, and it doesn’t really say anything about their alignment. Yet you don’t have a problem there why? Because you were neighborized?

yeah, i know. but you also wrote "it's not survivalistic on the surface", which made me think you were thinking that's the depth of my thoughts there.

because green has kinda done things this game? and their screaming match with you was the opposite of survivalistic?

[Datisi]

not necessarily but if they're town it's still a town voice encouraging votes. and you backed off them after they claimed, no?

No. Maybe look again.

ok yeah this was a brainfart of my end

[VP Baltar]

You’re really Scum aren’t you? I backed off GC, and said that after their claim I re-evaluated. And the claim did need to get pushed - they were hiding an important part of their claim.

I'll tell you what I think.

You may be scum here who is eager to expose as much town info as possible. You couldn't fucking stand that GC wouldn't say who was in the neighborhood, but you think an unpressured self vote, doc claim is obviously real? I have a hard time believing either of those come from a town mindset.

[Datisi]

what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking?

Because scum might fell self-conscious about lurking. I know that you and VPB are generally quite active, so I imagine that it would be hard to lurk as scum, especially in a good position.

i just spent like almost 3 days not posting in this game so

but even running with that argument, i don't see how our current activity is +scum as opposed to nai? unless you're implying that we wouldn't be as active if we were town which like

[Andresvmb]

and like it's obviously not survivalistic on the surface because "self-voting brings you closer to execution" but is it really never used as a reverse psychology kinda "ok then vote me" thing?? and coupled w claiming pr, which is also something that so very often makes people not wanna vote someone?

I literally just wrote that it could be a psychological trick. I’ve already added the caveat you’re using to diminish the point I was trying to make.

And Green Crayons also made a PR claim that made people back off them, and it doesn’t really say anything about their alignment. Yet you don’t have a problem there why? Because you were neighborized?

yeah, i know. but you also wrote "it's not survivalistic on the surface", which made me think you were thinking that's the depth of my thoughts there.

because green has kinda done things this game? and their screaming match with you was the opposite of survivalistic?

This isn’t going to go anywhere, and I’m a bit tired of engaging in this back and forth. I am interpreting Cookie Monster’s claim + self-vote to be coming from a place of injured pride / hurt. They’ve expressed similar feelings ever since I dismissed their reads list, and they read genuine to me. They could be a trick - that’s not out of the question. And VPB is correct in saying that it’s erratic. But I personally don’t see it as survivalist. I have been wrong in reading emotion before so this could be wrong. But since VPB, who I’m SR’ing, seems so intent on tearing down the claim, it makes me want to believe it.

[Andresvmb]

You may be scum here who is eager to expose as much town info as possible. You couldn't fucking stand that GC wouldn't say who was in the neighborhood, but you think an unpressured self vote, doc claim is obviously real? I have a hard time believing either of those come from a town mindset.

So I’m what, the fourth player that after expressing some mistrust in your direction, you feel the need to find some bullshit excuse to SR? Noted.

[RLotus]

Still working with a townblock of VPB, Datisi, Andre, Cookie, GC. VPB being the most likely place that I am wrong.

Meaning I think the scum is in Dunn, midway, maxwell, DGB, and Momrangal.

Considering Dunn, DGB, and Maxwell are on the midway wagon, I figure there is probably at least one scum on midway. I'd prefer someone like dunn, maxwell, or dgb currently.

VOTE: Dunn

I was happy with Duchess being town beforehand, so the claim kind of confirms it for me. I really wish he didn't claim tho.

[VP Baltar]

I don’t know why my voting pattern matters as much for my argument.

Because it's not consistent with what you said your own mindset was. If you believed there was scum on the wagon that were voting Dunn up, then you as town should have obviously voted there. The problem for you was that the people who fit that bill the most were Datisi, lotus and myself.

Datisi and myself are harder votes and Lotus was a townread of yours iirc.

It literally didn't make sense at the time, and I think you're trying to force it to make sense now. I'm asking you to actually explain your logic here because I want to know if you were scum or town bullshitting. I'd honestly prefer if you're town to just admit you weren't making sense there, rather than doubling down and saying that defending Dunn is somehow logically the same as hunting on the wagon, because it just isn't.

[Andresvmb]

Can somebody please explain how I am trying to expose as much Town info as possible? Does that sound like a legitimate argument? Because it really isn’t. And accusing me of this because I was attempting to get clarity on a Neighborizer claim that was made is a gigantic stretch.

[VP Baltar]

You may be scum here who is eager to expose as much town info as possible. You couldn't fucking stand that GC wouldn't say who was in the neighborhood, but you think an unpressured self vote, doc claim is obviously real? I have a hard time believing either of those come from a town mindset.

So I’m what, the fourth player that after expressing some mistrust in your direction, you feel the need to find some bullshit excuse to SR? Noted.

I know my alignment. Everyone pushing trash my way isn't town. I'm happy to call bullshit when I see it. You don't get a pass because others have done it.

[Andresvmb]

It literally didn't make sense at the time, and I think you're trying to force it to make sense now. I'm asking you to actually explain your logic here because I want to know if you were scum or town bullshitting. I'd honestly prefer if you're town to just admit you weren't making sense there, rather than doubling down and saying that defending Dunn is somehow logically the same as hunting on the wagon, because it just isn't.

The problem is that you and everybody else seems to want easy answers. It’s like oh I thought Scum was on the wagon, so I immediately should have restricted all of my attention and focus to figuring out who on the wagon was Scum. When that’s not how I operate at all, and it’s a very narrow way of looking at the game.

I can pursue whatever avenue I want to figuring out who is Town and who is Scum. Even if I maintained that the Italiano wagon had Scum, there’s nothing wrong or illogical with trying to sort certain slots I found Scummy outside of the wagon. This isn’t complicated. I can do it, and then return to the voters on the wagon and decide that maybe I should be pushing there again. The timeline of how I approach that process is meaningless. Because again, unless I was arguing that the Italiano wagon contained all of the Scum, and I wasn’t, I can probe whoever I feel like.

[VP Baltar]

But since VPB, who I’m SR’ing, seems so intent on tearing down the claim, it makes me want to believe it.

What's my scum motivation for that?

If I'm scum and I know cookie is town, then cool for me. Free claim. I could then move on to forcing another person to claim today and I can sort out priorities with NKs. This is exactly what I'm saying you're doing.

Town absolutely has reason to at least question why cookie would claim there. There was no town motivation behind it.

[Andresvmb]

Cookie claimed Doctor. If they’re Town, of course there’s a Scum motivation to diminishing the slot or trying to get it executed, so that they don’t block a potential NK.

[Datisi]

VPB being the most likely place that I am wrong.

mind talking about this? earlier in the day you had him as a stronger townread, what's making you shift here?

[Andresvmb]

I could then move on to forcing another person to claim today and I can sort out priorities with NKs. This is exactly what I'm saying you're doing.

Yeah see but here’s the thing. I actually haven’t pushed anybody to the point where they might claim. Just because Green Crayons did it out of turn and without intent to hammer, and Cookie Monster did it after I had unvoted based on their emotional reaction, then you really can’t make this argument in good faith.