Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[RLotus]

Who, btw, is far more likely to be Town than the other player in the obvious pairing that contains Scum.

Man, you are falling into the exact same tunnel I did on day 1. Yes, I get it, VPB's reaction to being pushed on is scummy. It makes you want to keep pushing on him and it made me want to keep pushing on him as well. I really think this is his town play.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah so am I, yet you said I'm potential scum for not agreeing with your tunnel on VPB. Whom, btw, there is absolutely no shot you pair me with VPB as scumpartners after that dogfight on day 1.

Pairing you with Datisi is a far more rational thing to consider.

Tunnel? Are you for real?

How can you possibly conclude that VPB is Town. Out of Datisi/VPB, what makes you so sure you are on the right side of it?

[VP Baltar]

you diminished Cookie Monster's claim

God I wish I could shut my mouth, but this is just not true.

I'm the one who said we shouldn't yeet him when people were calling for it.

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

I am really done trying to solve this game. I'll hammer whichever one of VPB/Datisi gets to E-1. I have made myself clear this game. I could easily be wrong. But I am honestly so annoyed that neither one of them was willing to even consider that the other player was pocketing them.

[RLotus]

Yeah so am I, yet you said I'm potential scum for not agreeing with your tunnel on VPB. Whom, btw, there is absolutely no shot you pair me with VPB as scumpartners after that dogfight on day 1.

Pairing you with Datisi is a far more rational thing to consider.

Tunnel? Are you for real?

How can you possibly conclude that VPB is Town. Out of Datisi/VPB, what makes you so sure you are on the right side of it?

VPB has been up front trying to solve the game. Yes, he appears scummy when you push on him and he makes this big ruckus trying to discredit you. Look at a few of his town games. He seemingly does this every time he gets pushed. This is how he plays.

Yes, tunnel. Have you considered Datisi is the scum here? I sure spent a lot of considering if VPB is scum. Please reconsider for me, because I think Datisi is pulling the wool over our eyes here.

[Andresvmb]

This game is really hard to follow for some reason

If you're just going to post useless crap, why should we not yeet you?

That Claim by Cookie Monster is too specific so I’m going to assume that it’s just Town.

@Cookie, a word of advice for future games. Just because you’re upset, it doesn’t mean that you should be (i) self-voting, and (ii) revealing your claim under limited pressure. You’re playing against the Town win condition by needlessly revealing information about your role.

You're assuming this claim is real as opposed to just being erratic?

Yes you did. It would really help if you just stopped with the bullshit.

[Andresvmb]

Yes, tunnel. Have you considered Datisi is the scum here? I sure spent a lot of considering if VPB is scum. Please reconsider for me, because I think Datisi is pulling the wool over our eyes here.

What do you mean have I not considered whether Datisi could be the Scum? Of course I have. I am 100% with you that one of Datisi/VPB is Scum 100% of the time. But I was saying that yesterday. Instead, we executed midway, because VPB insisted we did, and Datisi couldn't see the obvious. Which one of them is just bad, and which one is faking it, like I have said multiple times, is really difficult for me to figure out. So I am going to let the rest of the players figure it out. At this point, I feel like VPB has insulted me enough that I have no sympathy if they get executed or not.

[VP Baltar]

When/why did cookie monster claim?

Am I forever gonna be in catch up mode x.x

Cookie claimed largely unprovoked. Who knows what was real/fake there. We decided just to leave it for now

If cookie clarifies that that was a legit claim I’ll switch my vote

Otherwise I disagree with Andres that the claim itself is AI

I'd rather we don't try to verify the doc claim. I don't think we should yeet cookie today

[Andresvmb]

VPB has been up front trying to solve the game.

I am going to need more detailed analysis and a comparison between Datisi and VPB for me to believe this is true for VPB and not Datisi. I am not just going to accept your blanket statement that this is the case.

[Andresvmb]

When/why did cookie monster claim?

Am I forever gonna be in catch up mode x.x

Cookie claimed largely unprovoked. Who knows what was real/fake there. We decided just to leave it for now

If cookie clarifies that that was a legit claim I’ll switch my vote

Otherwise I disagree with Andres that the claim itself is AI

I'd rather we don't try to verify the doc claim. I don't think we should yeet cookie today

You still diminished the claim. You can acknowledge the blatantly obvious. Datisi made the exact same point that we should not do any favors for Scum and execute there for example. So how do I know which one is genuine and which one isn't?

[VP Baltar]

VPB has insulted me

Look, if you feel like I've personally attacked you, I apologize. Games get heated, but it's a game and I honestly (and this doesn't have anything to do with the game) don't want to be a jerk to people. We've traded barbs, but I like you as a person and don't want to be insulting you.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi made the exact same point that we should not do any favors for Scum and execute there for example. So how do I know which one is genuine and which one isn't?

I said it first

[Andresvmb]

VPB has insulted me

Look, if you feel like I've personally attacked you, I apologize. Games get heated, but it's a game and I honestly (and this doesn't have anything to do with the game) don't want to be a jerk to people. We've traded barbs, but I like you as a person and don't want to be insulting you.

Yeah but I never talked about respect, and from the very beginning I said that I would watch how your slot evolved because I like you as a player. I don't feel like you've treated me fairly. But whatever, it is a game, and these feelings will die as soon as it is over. You also don't have to apologize. There's still a possibility you're Scum in my eyes and are playing to your win condition. And I can't resent that, as much as it annoys the crap out of me.

[Andresvmb]

Look on balance, would I be surprised if RLotus flipped Scum? I really would. RLotus stopped making sense as Scum to me yesterday, and if Datisi flips Scum that would absolutely wash away any doubt I had. So obviously RLotus is out of the question. The way the wagon built on Dunn almost ensures that Dunn is not Scum. And Elements/DGB seemed sufficiently lost that I really don't think it's Scum.

That really does leave one of Datisi/VPB, maxwell, and Momrangal as the potential executions today. It is *possible* that Green Crayons is Scum, but frankly, I would wait and see what Datisi/VPB flip first before making that guess. If Datisi is Scum, frankly it makes it tricky. Would Green Crayons have used their Scum buddy as the target of their power? I presume that they actually Neighborized someone last night as well (I do think Green Crayons should claim it, actually). If VPB is Scum, then the odds suddenly rise. Green Crayons could have Neighborized Datisi of the pair to help pocket there, and Green Crayons did announce intent to execute midwaybear yesterday.

BattleMage's arguments with RTP, and Momrangal's horrible hammer yesterday (together with their nonsensical final post of the day) all make it likely that Momrangal is Scum. But what is maxwell doing? And why are they avoiding the inevitable Datisi / VPB dichotomy, and choosing not to comment on it? It is key to the game. And their Unvote of midwaybear still looks somewhat fishy, but Datisi focusing on that both implicitly and explicitly means that maxwell is probably not Scum if Datisi flips Scum.

[Andresvmb]

I had been in the midst of typing up throughts on every player in the game off the top of my head when that hammer happened, I still think andres + Datisi + DGB are town, if I'm right on those the game isn't

too

terrible.

Well this is illustrative actually, sorry for missing it.

I mean, maxwell also makes sense as Scum to me so maybe it is Datisi. If Datisi flips Scum, flip maxwell.

[Andresvmb]

I really need to leave, but I just wanted to get my frustration out maybe.

@Mod, I meant my VLA. I will be back Friday Night.

[Andresvmb]

what about it is so amazing to you? also would cookie being an alt affect this opinion?

Do you agree that I was right, now that Cookie Monster has made that incredibly detailed claim? Or no?

i do not. i've seen scum claim bullshit, and i feel like doc is one of favourite scum fakeclaims. the way it was made is horrible, the self-voting + claiming pr screams AtE and survivalism as opposed to... idk, anything genuine.

like i'm not saying it can't come from town, especially knowing there's precedent to that slot being utterly useless in other games, but it gets zero town points from me.

One last thing. Datisi did too actually. Diminish the claim.

[RLotus]

VPB has been up front trying to solve the game.

I am going to need more detailed analysis and a comparison between Datisi and VPB for me to believe this is true for VPB and not Datisi. I am not just going to accept your blanket statement that this is the case.

I will get back to this tomorrow

[Andresvmb]

If I was going to trust you RLotus and vote Datisi over VPB, it would be for one simple reason. The fact that VPB actually went back on their hard read on Dunn yesterday. I will concede that strategically, that made little sense for Scum. The play would have probably been to push Dunn through and avoid generating further evidence that could clear certain players.

[Andresvmb]

Sorry, I had to. I'll be back.

[VP Baltar]

Andres, I'm considering giving you and Lotus co-ownership of my vote as a sign of trust today. Like if you can both agree where to vote, I'll put my vote there, even if it's me. You both can't be scum here, and if I do survive today, I need to not be fighting with you for the rest of the game. What's your take on that?

[Andresvmb]

Andres, I'm considering giving you and Lotus co-ownership of my vote as a sign of trust today. Like if you can both agree where to vote, I'll put my vote there, even if it's me. You both can't be scum here, and if I do survive today, I need to not be fighting with you for the rest of the game. What's your take on that?

I want to see RLotus' take on Datisi first. I'll admit I am a bit tired of feeling like everything I am arguing is wrong.

[Datisi]

ok 1st thing i can confirm another person did get added into the hood. will leave it to green/them to claim it if they want.

I had been in the midst of typing up throughts on every player in the game off the top of my head when that hammer happened, I still think andres + Datisi + DGB are town, if I'm right on those the game isn't

too

terrible.

do you still have what you were typing?

Look here's my thinking. Basically, one of {VPB, Datisi} is practically guaranteed Scum. We have one more mis-execution. VPB is very likely to be execution bait if he's Town, since everything he's pushed for has been dead wrong. And given the arguments VPB has put forth, I put decent odds that it's just Scum. So that's what we should do.

still feel like this is very much a false dichotomy.

ooookay 2599 is a burning pile of trash and here is why:

- that is how i play. that is literally how i play. i probe and ask questions. sometimes those questions don't go anywhere because the responses don't strike my gut either way. and that's fine, i've gotten suspected over that shit before. but here's the thing: why hasn't lotus done some meta research on me to see that? he was suspecting baltar, then he ~did some meta~, figured his behaviour lines up with his town!meta, ok nvm. so why isn't he doing it here?

- "For example, when he was following VPB's votes onto Dunn and then to RTP, even though Datisi kept reitirating that he thought Italiano is scum." you know why i was doing that? (1) because people didn't seem that interested in italiano. i'm not a fool to keep my vote parked in places where i know it's not gonna go anywhere. (2) pressure is used to sort people. votes apply pressure. like i don't have to constantly have my vote on my strongest scumread, especially coupled with (1).

- yeah, i said it's more likely scum are off wagon than on and that i didn't feel like going there atm. then my scumread on midway got stronger bc he started acting the same way he did in his last scumgame where he handvawed my reasons away and then he was scum. i was not letting that slide. i love how my ~airy reason~ wasn't brought up at all yesterday while i was actually pushing midway

VOTE: lotus

also i love how in 2604 lotus is saying how baltar and i are constants on the two misyeets and therefore it's "pretty clear" we should be looked at when he was on italiano d1 and kept putting midway in his scumpool but gave some p weak reasoning to not jump onto him

also very much looking forward to the argument on how i'm not sorting or whatever it was.

This is the particular bit I was rereading and freaking out that I have been getting taken for a ride.

Ah now this comes up? I thought Datisi was your lockTown. What happened?

Midway flipped town

i was wrong. he was acting like a scumfuck and he really reminded me of 2180.

baltar, are you buying into the "there must be scum between the two of us" theory?

andre: what's your point wrt diminishing the claim cookie made? it was a scummy claim. i've twice now seen scum fakeclaim doc to try to get out of shit. and like neither of us actually pushed it.

still think baltar is town. this still feels like his town!meta.
green also feels like town, plus the fact cookie died makes me think he's less likely to be scum.
momrangal is probably town, however i've heard that battle mage's scumgame is actually Not Shit, so should probably look at that to see if his entrance really was out of his scumrange.
andres' entrance today feels really genuine and i feel like he's far too tunnelled. but also getting some vague paranoia he and lotus are coming out today each pushing one of me/baltar.
dgb needs to contribute more, and i've talked about its voting patterns yesterday.
not liking maxwell's unvote from midway for reasons that were ??? to me.
dunnstral has some q's to answer from yesterday, still feel like he could easily be scum.

ok, it's 3am so off to bed in a bit, but should be around for a few still.

[VP Baltar]

green also feels like town, plus the fact cookie died makes me think he's less likely to be scum

I'm not following this

[VP Baltar]

baltar, are you buying into the "there must be scum between the two of us" theory?

Idk. It has crossed my mind I'm getting duped here. Honestly, I'd think you'd be suspicious of me too.

There's just WRONG here somewhere or we wouldn't have flipped two town.