Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[clidd]

I know that Sherlock says there ''I would never accuse clidd of TMI'', but he was drawing attention to the subject and kind of unconsciously suggesting it, if that makes sense.

[clidd]

Well, that's it.

Maybe something else will come to mind later. Still not seeing town!Gamma or town!Kid atm.

[Pink Ball]

I think this has turned to be a pretty obvious decision

[Pyro]

It's interesting how Titus herself informed us of this instead of the last scum, well, that's probably because if the last scum informs us it's scum-indicative because they're more well informed about how scum works.

If Titus hadn't informed us... that's always beneficial to scum!KidAmn I think? Even if we realise tomorrow it makes KidAmn live today at the very least. grumble grumble dumb WIFOM I love it

[Pyro]

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

[Pyro]

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

[Titus]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

[KidAmn]

Aren't they just.

[clidd]

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

Not exactly, I'm still within the approach that I planned to adopt pre-game, but not so intensely, since it would be bad faith on my part considering that it's not possible to say if the lack of engagement is conscious or coming from scum.

[clidd]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

[Nancy Drew 39]

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

No, not luck. If KidAmn is the last scum, I think I have an explanation.

I think Gamma/KidAmn is scum even night Role Stopper and 1 shot bus driver.

Kid claimed to protect Morty and Rick N2 - who was conveniently the only town amongst Sarah and Sherlock and Watson but if Kid is actually scum role stopper, he’d obviously have RS’d War and Peace.

On N3 - the only actual evidence of an actual bus drive ftr - Koba was INFORMED that their target was switched from REK to Toog. This confirms Dunn’s odd night town doc claim.

On N4 - Tweetie targeted Sarah who she ASSUMED was switched with Sarah but that happened before Starcrossed claimed 1 shot vig (and unless one of the vts are for some reason failing to claim that, I have no reason to doubt that). So if scum even night rolestopper, why couldn’t have scum!Kid just RS’d Sarah? Tweetie was never actually informed her target was switched to Koba - unlike Koba who was informed that their target was switched to from REK to Toog.

Then you look at why was Fey the NK > both Tweetie and Starcrossed. Well we know Dunn claimed to protect Starcrossed and as Tweetie pointed out bus driver - assuming not a 1 shot but no evidence suggests it isn’t - doesn’t really need to kill her > Fey. If scum RS, KidAmn can’t touch Dunn because he needs to keep him alive as a possible shield to miselim in Elo. This is why he’s pushing Clidd. His push on Pyro is particularly bad, because his only argument is that Pyro bussed W & P solely for towncred. Scum obviously takes towncred wherever they can but - unless they’re in actual danger, it’s never the actual sole reason for a bus. KidAmn’s claim of RSing Dunn instead of obvious NK target Koba is especially suspect. You always protect the outed cop who found evidence of the bus driver and claimed they would be the actual target but no, he instead claims Dunn, his shield who he will obviously hard defend because after Clidd miselim, he can then maybe flip on him since if Pooky vs FL is any example, Dunn is an optimal miselim candidate but Fey dying points to Dunn being town and bus driver being one shot,

[Nancy Drew 39]

Clidd’s posting today is really good where as KidAmn has done absolutely nothing but AtE and shade. He keeps telling me I need to re-evaluate but never actually bothers to ever explain anything. Both KidAmn and Clidd know that they’re the potential elim targets today but only Clidd’s response to that reads townie to me. I think if Dunn was scum here and bus driver wasn’t a one shot, Starcrossed would be dead instead of Fey.

Because of nightskip, Dunn had only two opportunities to use his doc: N3, where Titus inadvertently spewed him town by bus driving REK with Toog and N5 where his target, Starcrossed didn’t die.

Contrast KidAmn: On N2, he claimed RS on the only townie amongst 3 possible RS targets who I suggested and but on N5, he inexplicably claims to RS Dunn instead the blatantly obvious target Koba. Oh yeah, Dunn is clear because of N3 bus druve and N5 target actually living, where as both townies just conveniently happened to die on nights 2 and 4, when there was 0 real evidence of a bus drive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dunn is mech confitown based on both mech confirmed bus drive on N3 and Starcrossed not dying N5. So yes @Titus, Dunn is 100% mech cleared.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also why does scum!Krazy hardpush Clidd as the D2 elim? Sure he wasn’t in actual danger but why assume Keazy would think that? He did hardpush him but because I really wanted Italiano instead, it didn’t happen but he fought me extremely hard on that. He 100% wanted a Clidd elim D2.

Also both S & W and W & P have extremely strong weird associatives with Gamma and Ircher in particular had buzarro associatives when he “defended” him from Pyro’s questioning him wrt to Gamma’s bad Saudade push.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both scum were pushing PB predecessor Saudade and Krazy wanted him “gunchecked”. Pyro never kills Fey N5, when she townlocked him.

So Tweetie is mech confitown by role, Dunn is confitown because of REK bus drive and Starcrossed (also town based off vig claimed not being CC’d) not dying. PB is town based off of two flipped scum putting his slot in actual danger. Pyro is town based on Fey N5 NK. Clidd is town because Krazy hardpushed him < Italiano on D2.

KidAmn has done absolutely nothing but bs AtE and discredit and Ircher’s associative with Gamma are particularly gross.

I think game ends today with Kid flip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

Aren't they just.

Which one is the townie here?

VOTE: KidAmn

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, your bluffs are terrible.

Aren't they just.

Yeah, this is totally a townie response.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And Kid, I'm acting in good faith here.

If you want to share what you think about the game, regardless of whether you suspect me or not, I'm open to listening.

Although I show some confidence, I'm not foolish to think that you are scum in 100% of cases. I can always reconsider if I see something that I hadn't noticed before.

Aren't they just.

Which one is the townie here?

VOTE: KidAmn

Clidd keeps earnestly trying to solve while Kid continues to do absolutely nothing but AtE and discredit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Uh, what?

you didn't claim in the vanilla massclaim 1+1=notvanilla

Wtf... is this just overt mason hunting

Typical scum good cop - Sarah/bad cop - W & P positioning on Dunn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Sherlock/Clidd interaction stuff

Pink Flooooof <3

Alright whatever

VOTE: clidd I guess? Idk what do you want nancy?

-S

i feel like Sherlock is aware that voting doesn't mean much here since Nancy should always be the one picking who we ultimately exile. votes and minor shade isn't all that significant and there's no real solid push from Sherlock actually against Clidd. i just get vibes of distancing more than anything when they know that it makes them look less aligned without really threatening the over one.

Italiano and Pink Ball *could* be town off VCA in which case clidd looks very likely to be red

that might be hasty though but it sorta vibes with my gut

meh, no follow up to this

Can't decide if clidd is goon already being bussed or the town that scum want to push to disrupt the town narrative

shading without real pressure is a theme

I was just thinking it'd be interesting to see a noraa stump game but tbh noraa feels like the stump of *this* game, nancy are you sure you didn't role swap?

I still feel good about my town akarin vibe earlier but it would be nice to just see more from her. And Ari there's something you can do that would help me read u but you only are townie if you do it unprompted

Personally I really don't townread the way suffering started being like... Just mean? Too gamma, and I don't want to set a precedent that being mean or upping ate will get townreads. Like the reads of saudade flipped because he went over a line and if reads change *for those reasons* we're gonna see scum like fake anger a lot. That sort of stuff is terrible for thread readability

Nancy do you still townread clidd?I

-S

asking nancy about it without trying to convince nancy otherwise gives me vibes of not actually trying to push clidd out, just to give the appearance of it

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

somehow i don't really get the vibes of this being a hard push on clidd from sherlock or even anti-aligned indicative. the line of clidd is a throwaway after pushing people as alternatives that Nancy prefers to clidd

Leash Gamma to Sahara, since Fey is out of shots leash Italiano to Fey to confirm the existence of that role. W&P check one of PB or Starcrossed, sure, probably better to not leash GS to specific target

Flip 5uffering (I think that's the implication of that post? if not I'd leash him to clidd), vig... clidd? don't like this actually for some reason even though it's the 'safe' play, and this maybe changes if we're leashing 5uffering to clidd if we don't do 5uffering today

not sure if there was something else you were doing with Fey that would make a vanillaize there bad but from my POV that's correct night actions

-S

I kinda think italiano's town now, so in my opinion, italiano vanillaize fey, vig clidd makes more sense

if you think clidd is townier than italiano, then vig italiano, italiano leashed to clidd

idk I can't make some of those decisions for you

-S

doesn't want vig on clidd is notable, but none of this is really associative-indicative based on assumed scum night powers

This is getting to the point where my reads are actively degrading. I don't like the push on REK. I don't like PB (alignment wise, based on push/gamestate). I don't like clidd calling PB town *now*. I don't like the inertia on Italiano. I don't know what that adds up to in the gamestate and I don't think today will be in a good place if this dayphase goes long enough that it will create the risk of me getting to a point where I let myself push PB, because I just don't see that being good for anyone involved, even IF PB is scum. I think positionally REK is probably town simply for the way people are positioning themselves on that slot in this gamestate. But I say all that and I don't even know REK is town! Maybe PB is like softbussing to set up a chain on me later or something, I don't know! I don't even care! Nancy I am not even joking when I say that if you let this game go past page 190 I am just going to overrule you and announce the day's flip and I won't even care if you had some sort of galaxybrain mason gambit in mind or something. 180 was my 'gasket point' and I know you don't want to be rushed but look at the pagecount of this game and realize SHIT NEEDS TO DIE. I know you want to go slow and you want me to be helping you more but THIS IS ME HELPING YOU. MAKE A DECISION, RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHATEVER and let this game ADVANCE before literally the entire game is just ~done~. What happens when days go this long (pagecountwise) is that my accurate reads from earlier in the game get supplanted by the reads I have on people whose reads are annoying me, whose positioning annoys me, or whose soft pushes on me annoys me. My reads are stronger earlier because I don't have as much emotional load dealing with my evaluation of the slots. And the more frustrated I get with this game in particular, my reads get worse as the page count just continues to advance. And I say that and I know that Pink Ball, whatever his alignment, just wants to play the game he replaced into *which is fine* bearing in mind that I am just *completely sick* of 200 page day 1s. No day 1 is worth 200 pages. It's just not. All that will happen is that, since it's day 1, and since we'll just *usually* end up wrong here *somehow*, *somewhere*, we're just going to get *even more upset* when we realize we spent 200 pages talking it out only to fuck it up. Mafia isn't supposed to be played perfectly, it's supposed to be played in a way that you get the odds to *slightly* tip in your favor through *slightly* above random reads. If you try to play the perfect game the game will just slip through your fingers. That's been my takeaway from the last six months.

TBH a very big part of me wants to snap to clidd just for 4585 and say Noraa was right all along. In fact why don't we just do that?

VOTE: clidd

We're just spinning in fucking circles here Nancy, CALL THE SHOT OR I WILL

the actual push on Clidd comes here- when contextually like.. he wasn't in danger of getting flipped? these are Nanacy's posts right before this

i definitely wouldn't lim Morty today Nancy
he's mostly just there as a prediction even though I townread him
the gist for clidd is i think he's saying things he doesn't believe in and playing up the confident/commanding act
War and Peace has samantha playing to a tee to her scummeta while Ircher had some really bad moments early on
like i said i'm not gonna scumcase any of them right now
either in a few days if we're somehow still on this day
or day 2 if we flip someone

Well W & P was in my initial solve and Clidd was in Noraa’s.

My initial solve was 5uffering, Italiano, Gamma, W & P. So I’m open to W & P if you can show me they’re scum, less sure on Clidd but I’m open to it if one or more of that PoE is wrong. As for REK, if this was a regular game I might see things differently but I just can’t see Titus drafting Akarin after Pokeman Battles, especially when she’s made multiple posts about not being interested in drafting players who hate playing scum because it’s “demotivating” and Akarin detests playing scum. So my reads are part based on play, part VCA, part meta and part the likelihood of actually being drafted. So Fey is my top tr primarily based off of meta and unlikeliness of being picked. I was paranoiaing on you for likelihood of being picked but I also have gotten some town pings from you.

Why is compulsive vanilaizer a town role? Somebody please explain that.

It's very clear here that Clidd isn't even in like Nancy's top 4 targets (was like 5th/6th) and Nancy seemed fairly solid at this point since we were vibing on most of these reads around this point. i don't see the push actually being non partner indicative and think the overall trajectory leans more scum

Sarah putting some serious effort to push Clidd, where as while he claims to be also okay with limming KidAmn, puts 0 effort into scumcasing him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

my solve right now is Clidd + KidAm

a lot of people seem to be saying Clidd is town from the interactions with Sherlock. don't buy that logic holds up given Sherlock knew that wasn't going through when Nancy was against it

Has KidAmn in his solve but then proceeds to discredit it. Otoh, never does that for Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

which of us did you target? i didn't get a message

@Nancy - sheep me on Clidd/Kidam tomorrow i guess

Why aren’t you voting TODAY?

i'm voting clidd right now. ideally we'd vote them off today. why the caps... you don't need to shout... it's scary

clidd is still framing me being v.sus of him as weird when there's v.likely scum in the vanillas and he accepts that and i've made it clear that i TR the vanillas apart from clidd...

is (KidAm + Dunn) with a no protectives rule possible? that reaaaaally doesn't feel balanced at a glance

More shade on Clidd and more attempts to discredit KidAmn scumreads, which is why Kid’s claimed RS on Dunn > Koba is so sus.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm not 'seriously suggesting' i'm asking if it seems remotely balanced because, as i said, it reeeeeeally doesn't feel balanced to me

i think Clidd looks pretty bad from Krazy interactions especially when you consider that nobody gets voted off without your say, so scum can throw shade at each other in this setup knowing it's not likely to result in an actual scum!death unless you already dislike the slot. Krazy only throws shade at and pushes the clidd slot when Krazy knows you're after other votes. like i talked about this already, he ramps up the agression against clidd from shade to pushing when you're deciding between 2-3 non Clidd people. that feels performative > non associative

not sure what my problematic interactions with the slot are?

Why does Sarah hardbus Clidd here? He obviously doesn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My current PoE is you/KidAmn/Clidd. I have stronger reasons to be tr everyone else and as long as both scums are in that PoE, we win.

So fypov, do you agree with this? Minus you obviously.

as i said earlier, yes. this either gets both scum, or there's a deepwolf that gets POE'd out from flips/power roles... but there's enough votes for all of that. if i had a smaller poe then i'd be a lot more irritated with a push on me here

I hard TR over half of the game without counting myself so this isn't game losing, it's just dumb. if you want to vote me then sheep me afterwards

Deepwolf suggestion. After Clidd townflip, he wants us to think KidAmn isn’t the obvious solve.