Mini Normal 2201 | Silly Stock Photos | Endgame

[Luca Blight]

TR'ing Datisi for the same thing he SR Rathe for

What reason is this? The reads seem totally unrelated to me

He TR Datisi and Llama (amongst others) early on for starting fights, but SR Rathe for his Llama push which was essentially the same thing

@Llama I'm busy atm so will reply to your latest post in a bit

[Infinity 324]

Starting a fight is pretty different from pushing someone as scum, and SRing someone for making that distinction is not great

That said, I do think you believe in your read, so there's that

[Luca Blight]

'Fight' was Outworld's word - not reality. No 'fight' took place.

Both Datisi and Rathe pushed Llama early on, and yet the experienced player is read as Town and the newbie as scum. How convenient.

It doesn't seem like real analysis to me

[Infinity 324]

Idk, datisi and rathe approached the situation very differently, and it doesn't seem at all reasonable to read their play differently as a result

[Luca Blight]

Yeah but my problem is with the reasoning

'Scum wouldn't fight early' is bad reasoning in general, especially when we're talking about experienced players and when it wasn't even a fight at all.

It implies he thinks scum would be sitting back early on (like Outworld has done btw) and Rathe put himself out there with his push on Llama, so these things don't align.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, I disagree, outworld isn't my top townread though so this argument isn't very productive

[Luca Blight]

For the third time, it makes no sense to SR someone for doing something and TR someone else for the exact same thing. I questioned him about this but he has avoided explaining this further. It leads me to believe he is faking the read, and it's a very convenient read indeed. TvT in general is such an easy thing to scum to just throw out there to look as though they've done some analysis. It doesn't ring true in this instance

Maybe this is where the split comes... do you think his TvTvT read is correct?

Well, no I don't. I SR Datisi and I'm not sure about you, but more importantly I don't agree with or like how he came to that conclusion.

He corrected the Rathe thing when it was convenient to do so - when Rathe!scum was no longer a popular read. He gets no townie points for this

Timeline weakens this point. OW was inactive for pretty much an entire day and then came back and corrected. After you vote him his next post is backing off.

Right, so why is that Townie? He's just continuing to tread the path of least resistance

He's not writing them off so fast? Do you think he's locktowning them for the rest of the game or something?

Literally the easiest thing for scum to do is hand out townreads. It makes friends instead of enemies, makes them look as though they are solving and allows them to follow the lead rather than need to push the initiative themselves. I'm not saying Town don't TR players a lot as well, but this isn't a reason to TR someone in of itself. I already gave you the example of scum!A50 who refused to SR anyone. Nothing Outworld has done so far has truck me as Townie or natural in any way.

One example of a different player who did something once doesnt really help. Granted it depends from player to player (its probably null at best for me) but typically I like it when players lock down town reads, especially if I can follow the logic that gets them there. OW basically can vote Samantha, or try and push a brand new wagon. Not sure many scum lock themselves into that few options day one. Turning around on anyone else probably raises suspicion to varying extents.

Again, I don't think he's locked himself into anything. He's playing it safe and tried to cultivate friendly relations with some of the more experienced players. He's tread lightly and avoided conflict. I don't see why any of this behavior makes him Town.

He can obviously turn around his reads as things develop. Probably not today, but from day 2 onwards post-flip why not?

[Luca Blight]

In my scum game I just finished (which Datisi was in) I TR most players D1 as well, but ended up using PoE to justify scumreads on them later on

Finding reasons to suspect people as scum can be difficult, and it's easier just to put players as 'town' until there's a need to open things up more

[Andresvmb]

@Mod I’m VLA until tomorrow night.

I’ll keep catching up tomorrow just had an exhausting long day.

I just skimmed through Luca’s point though about aggressive players not necessarily being Town. I agree. His skepticism that the more experienced player is being given the benefit of the doubt and the less experienced player is not also rings like a true defense. I’m going to have to re-evaluate you Luca. For now I’ll UNVOTE: until I’m done reading.

[Iconeum]

Dear Anagram of Santa, expect a gif whenever you click a spoiler by me for the rest of the game, I'm not gonna hide votes in them or anything

this tbh

[Iconeum]

I'm really disengaged from this game and finding it hard to pay attention :/

i need an answer to this

it might be important

[Iconeum]

Good question, it's been a busy week and a busier weekend so that's probably part of it but hard to say if it's all of it.

dissapointing answer

[Iconeum]

i would have accepted a different reason, as i've seen in the past that town!umlaut can get disconnected from a game when under pressure

IRL business ain't it

[Iconeum]

at this point it all comes down to vote consolidation tho

[Iconeum]

luca do you townread me?

[Iconeum]

Spoiler: luca analysis *big post ahead*

llama, for someone so determined to get us moving out of rvs and into The Serious Game... you've expressed one (1) read so far.

I really hate this post

i really like this post

How did you go from this to hard TR-ing Datisi?

In isolation, this isn't that bad. Only there are multiple of these posts where he questions townreads on datisi from very early on

basically I see a whole TvTvT shitfight on the last few pages with the exception of Rathe who I don't like.

Can you elaborate as to what leads you to conclude that there was a bunch of Town fighting other Town? Which players specifically are you talking about?

I’m guessing Llama and Datisi are two of them, yeah? Who is the third?

Llama, Datisi, and Infinity. Llama and Datisi interacting in ways that I don't see scum doing, and from what I remember of Student Council Infinity is playing to his town meta here and I just think in general that scum aren't likely to take these fights this early in the game.

I don’t really like this take

I think Llama’s early stance is slightly Town-indicative, but why do you think Datisi wouldn’t play the way he has as scum? I’d like a little more elaboration on that part

In general you’re talking about three of the most experienced players in this game so I’m not sure why you don’t think they’d take a fight early in the game? It wasn’t really much of a fight either imo

more shade on datisi: 'why can't this be scum!tisi?'
luca is putting in effort to make sure datisi isn't easily townread here

I would need to read Student Council again but I think this kind of buddying (perhaps the wrong word but the stuff in 138, 154, and 158) is normal for Infinity? I don't see a reason to be suspicious of it regardless.

The Llama/Datisi thing reads as TvT to me. I don't think either party puts themselves out there like this as scum. I don't see a lot of reason for scum to want to end RVS early and Rathe trying to push Llama for that does not exactly give me good feelings about that slot.

VOTE: Rathe

I really dislike this post

The first paragraph is just filler, like he’s trying to look as though he’s really considering things but it’s pretty meaningless

Second paragraph: Why does Datisi get a pass based on this reasoning but not Rathe? By the looks of it Rathe is a relative newbie, so if picking fights then early doors in town-indicative (as Outworld seems to think) then why are you SR’ing him for it?

More of the same: effort to deny any towncredit going to datisi early on. Luca also mentions somewhere that datisi is EASILY capable of obvtowning. People are townreading datisi. And then he tries to sabotage it? I don't get it.

@Datisi

: I’m leaning

slightly

scum on you right now. You just seem a little off so far, but I’m not too worried as I know if you’re Town you’ll show it clearly enough before this day is through

Leaning slightly Town on Llama

I’ve got mixed feeling on just about everyone else

a slight scumread on datisi but not wanting to commit to it
people are 'easily' townreading datisi already at this point, and luca is fighting against that, so the 'you will clearly show if you are town soon enough' just reads faked here

I’m still not sure on Datisi but I liked his posts during the argument with Icon

if you are liking datisi's interaction with me
and people are townreading datisi
why are you scumreading him, even if it's just slightly?

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

and with the previous context, this just feels like you *wanna* scumread datisi

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

and this is the major ping in the pond
it pinged me when it happened, it's worse now
really reads like luca is trying to cram a wedge in what is only a developping early Mutual townread between datisi and myself
and more of the same: trying to stop people from townreading datisi

i think zoomer is showing vaguely townie reasonings, and i do like that he's had the readslist out decently fast, but his read on umlaut feels... meh. maybe bc i disagree with it but it feels too easy. like scumlaut knows how to make rational points? those posts really aren't that confrontational? time will tell i guess.

I'm getting scum vibes from this

Why exactly?

Difficult to explain, but it's like Datisi is trying to cast a shadow on Eso because he disagrees with his point on Umlaut, which doesn't really make eso more likely to be scum

or is reluctant for eso to be townread following his readslist so wants to undermine it in a subtle way

Icon, do you feel like Datisi is reading you as Town a little too easily here?

From my previous game with you two this normally never happens, but idk about more recently

whyyyyy does this smell like "oh shit datisi might push me and i'll have to fight it, but ik if he starts obvtowning i'm fucking dead, ay yo ico datisi is kinda scummy right riiiight???"

i'm definitely getting the feeling that luca isn't very comfortable with the current gamestate between us here

Well, you're right in a sense as I don't TR Datisi at all yet

And I normally TR Datisi really easily

datisi do you agree that town!luca would be pushing you right now for said reasons?

i don't think this makes luca scum

i agree town!luca could be *pushing* me for reasons provided

his play around me right now feels like pussyfooting more than anything

I'm not even caught up yet

I don't hard SR you, I just don't TR you?

You're pussyfooting around me as well, then?

Well yeah, I wouldn't be stupid enough to do that two games in a row with you present

If I were scum I'd be trying to buddy Datisi (like I did very successfully last game)

fucking lol

You just cut out the context

You are suspecting me for acting the same as the last game for something that fits your narrative (voting a partner) but ignoring the parts that don't fit (my approach towards you)

loooool did you just claim scum with outworld? i'm gonna assume not but lmfao this post might be hilarious in postgame

no. i'm not "suspecting" you for "voting a partner". i'm suspecting you for being flatter than a pancake. all i'm saying if outworld flipped scum, i would *heavily* look in your direction because that read was sliiiightly too early and sliiiightly too on-point and bc i know you have a habit of distancing. obviously you're not gonna play the exact same from game to game. and with me *not* being widely townread, why would you even have to buddy me? like

No? I just said that's the narrative you're spinning, not that it's reality

You weren't widely tr last game but I buddied you. I've been 'flat' because I've been busy/V/LA/demotivated. I just don't feel like you're pushing me in good faith and this doesn't feel like town!Datisi to me so far. I get if you're town I probably don't seem like town!Luca yet either but I don't think you'd be pushing me like this if you were town

I have to go out now so I'll continue my catch-up later

Momrangal, Infinity, eso, Icon, Samantha and maybe Anya as well are town-leans

My biggest suspicions are Outworld and Datisi

I need to review a lot of stuff but I'm not really in the right headspace for it today

Luca is voting him because his reads are "fake" (which I obviously disagree with) and not expanding on what reads are fake/why they think so.

I've expanded on this at least twice now, so you're clearly not paying attention

The TvTvT thing seemed fake to me, as well as TR'ing Datisi for the same thing he SR Rathe for - it seemed to me like he's trying to buddy the potential power players while taking advantage of the lhf.

I think Datisi/Outworld could be S/S as well

For the third time, it makes no sense to SR someone for doing something and TR someone else for the exact same thing. I questioned him about this but he has avoided explaining this further. It leads me to believe he is faking the read, and it's a very convenient read indeed. TvT in general is such an easy thing to scum to just throw out there to look as though they've done some analysis. It doesn't ring true in this instance

Maybe this is where the split comes... do you think his TvTvT read is correct?

Well, no I don't. I SR Datisi and I'm not sure about you, but more importantly I don't agree with or like how he came to that conclusion.

He corrected the Rathe thing when it was convenient to do so - when Rathe!scum was no longer a popular read. He gets no townie points for this

Timeline weakens this point. OW was inactive for pretty much an entire day and then came back and corrected. After you vote him his next post is backing off.

Right, so why is that Townie? He's just continuing to tread the path of least resistance

He's not writing them off so fast? Do you think he's locktowning them for the rest of the game or something?

Literally the easiest thing for scum to do is hand out townreads. It makes friends instead of enemies, makes them look as though they are solving and allows them to follow the lead rather than need to push the initiative themselves. I'm not saying Town don't TR players a lot as well, but this isn't a reason to TR someone in of itself. I already gave you the example of scum!A50 who refused to SR anyone. Nothing Outworld has done so far has truck me as Townie or natural in any way.

One example of a different player who did something once doesnt really help. Granted it depends from player to player (its probably null at best for me) but typically I like it when players lock down town reads, especially if I can follow the logic that gets them there. OW basically can vote Samantha, or try and push a brand new wagon. Not sure many scum lock themselves into that few options day one. Turning around on anyone else probably raises suspicion to varying extents.

Again, I don't think he's locked himself into anything. He's playing it safe and tried to cultivate friendly relations with some of the more experienced players. He's tread lightly and avoided conflict. I don't see why any of this behavior makes him Town.

He can obviously turn around his reads as things develop. Probably not today, but from day 2 onwards post-flip why not?

[Iconeum]

well that's a fail and a half

i wasn't quite ready yet :s

[Iconeum]

TL;DR: luca keeps building up towards a scumread of datisi, without actually pushing there
even right now, he's actually scumreading datisi but not committing to it and settling for what i consider the 'easier' target between datisi and outworld

[Iconeum]

am i just paranoid or does anyone else see what i'm seeing here upon ISO'ing luca?

[Datisi]

uuuuugh

i was in the middle of writing a ~catching up~ post, and one of the lines on it was going to be something like "ok tbh i don't really feel scum!luca anymore as strongly as i did, idk he feels more normal now"

and you just had to go make that case

[Luca Blight]

Icon, I’m about to go to work so I can’t respond in depth right now, but the part where you go ‘People are tr’ing Datisi and Luca is trying to sabotage it. I don’t get it’

You were literally saying the same as me at that time, how can you not get it?

And I’m still very much open to Datisi being Town and am sure I’ll see it eventually if he is, so it’s not something I want to push too much today

[Iconeum]

uuuuugh

i was in the middle of writing a ~catching up~ post, and one of the lines on it was going to be something like "ok tbh i don't really feel scum!luca anymore as strongly as i did, idk he feels more normal now"

and you just had to go make that case

i've never had an easy time reading luca, i think

what do you make of it?

[Iconeum]

Icon, I’m about to go to work so I can’t respond in depth right now, but the part where you go ‘People are tr’ing Datisi and Luca is trying to sabotage it. I don’t get it’

You were literally saying the same as me at that time, how can you not get it?

And I’m still very much open to Datisi being Town and am sure I’ll see it eventually if he is, so it’s not something I want to push too much today

i know i did *a little* of the same early day 1, but that came from a place where i just very recently got flambergusted *AGAIN* by scum!tisi which instigated the paranoia

i also literally promised myself after last game that i wouldn't give him an easy townread again

and here we are lol

[Iconeum]

the main issue i have with luca is that when reading his iso, from the very first few posts, up until the actual scumread on datisi, it can read like it was being set up

but sometimes my brain lets me see things that are just weird and this could be one of those

but but also like

if you say that datisi will obvtown and you don't wanna push there
i don't really think you should be giving him that scumread? you can't have both ya feel

[Iconeum]

outworld feels like such a boring flip tbh

i'd rather just yeet up umlaut here
or switch to luca
or switch to llama

i think that's about it?